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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Danny on April 30, 2010, 10:41:52 PM
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what do the illustrious minds of this board think about this new law??
http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/146662/shocking_law:_doctors_now_allowed_to_ keep_information_about_b irth_defects_from_women_ in_order_to_stop_abortio ns (http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/146662/shocking_law:_doctors_now_allowed_to_keep_information_about_birth_defects_from_women_in_order_to_stop_abortions)
:o :o
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what do the illustrious minds of this board think about this new law??
http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/146662/shocking_law:_doctors_now_allowed_to_ keep_information_about_b irth_defects_from_women_ in_order_to_stop_abortio ns (http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/146662/shocking_law:_doctors_now_allowed_to_keep_information_about_birth_defects_from_women_in_order_to_stop_abortions)
:o :o
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shocked.gif)
I'm speechless!
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From the link:
"One requires that a woman seeking an abortion must look at her ultrasound -- the screen must be in her line of sight (she has the option of covering her eyes) -- as the health care provider narrates the state of the fetus. The other law prevents a woman from suing her doctor for withholding information about potential birth defects."
What is the specific language of the new law? The ultrasound requirement is fine, but the other part sounds a little strange.
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Unfuckingreal...why can't they just leave women alone. Hopefully the court will throw it out.
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Does it insulate doctors from all birth defects or just those that are undisclosed?
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I'm still waiting for 3338 and company to post their opinions on this one.
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You can read the entire text of the bills here (measure numbers HB2780 and HB2656)
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/WebBillStatus/main.html
the ultrasound provision makes no exception for victims of incest or rape and it's not clear how the doctor is supposed to compel the woman to watch if she doesn't want to. Should her head be restrained and maybe her eyelids forced open ala "A Clockwork Orange."
The second bill specifically prevents doctors from being sued if their withholding of information about the fetus "contributed to the mother not having obtained an abortion."
The question I have is why would a doctor want to withhold medical information from his patient.
Why should his personal objection (religious or otherwise) to abortion allow him to withhold vital medical information from his patient.
Hmmmmm ...... I wonder what the purpose could be ??
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You can read the entire text of the bills here (measure numbers HB2780 and HB2656)
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/WebBillStatus/main.html
the ultrasound provision makes no exception for victims of incest or rape and it's not clear how the doctor is supposed to compel the woman to watch if she doesn't want to. Should her head be restrained and maybe her eyelids forced open ala "A Clockwork Orange."
The second bill specifically prevents doctors from being sued if their withholding of information about the fetus "contributed to the mother not having obtained an abortion."
The question I have is why would a doctor want to withhold medical information from his patient.
Why should his personal objection (religious or otherwise) to abortion allow him to withhold vital medical information from his patient.
Hmmmmm ...... I wonder what the purpose could be ??
Maybe there's some aborter's remorse they're protecting doctors from, LOL! Plenty of couples fall into the high risk category for having children. Why only insulate the doctor from law suits in cases of abortion?
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Maybe there's some aborter's remorse they're protecting doctors from, LOL!
Maybe. Still seems like a strange provision.
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Maybe there's some aborter's remorse they're protecting doctors from, LOL! Plenty of couples fall into the high risk category for having children. Why only insulate the doctor from law suits in cases of abortion?
I think the law is written specifically so that the patient can't sue and say she would have gotten an abortion if only her doctor had told her about birth defects
it's odd language but clearly written to give doctors legal cover to express their own moral (or religious) beliefs. I guess Oklahoma thinks the moral/religious concerns of the doctor are more important than the health, financial and even moral concerns of the patient
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I think the law is written specifically so that the patient can't sue and say she would have gotten an abortion if only her doctor had told her about birth defects
it's odd language but clearly written to give doctors legal cover to express their own moral (or religious) beliefs. I guess Oklahoma thinks the moral/religious concerns of the doctor are more important than the health, financial and even moral concerns of the patient
Medicine really isn't a place for causes and personal baggage.
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Still waiting for 333 and his posse to comment on this one. Care to enlighten us? :)
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Please show me one post in my 25000 posts ever expressing support for these types of laws.
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I'm not gonna go trough your posts. ::)...I was curious to find out how you guys feel about this.
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Its no worse than obamacare so you should support it.
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I wonder to what extent this law will affect routine prenatal care. Doctors could easily decide not to tell parents about birth defects regardless of if they thought abortion was a viable option or not.
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Its no worse than obamacare so you should support it.
this statement is jibberish
you must be channeling Palin
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Unfuckingreal...why can't they just leave women alone. Hopefully the court will throw it out.
I dont know,why cant they leave men alone and allow them to use steroids if they want to.Now,we are soon going to lose the right to use vitamins and supplements thanks to piss ant midgets like Henry Waxman[a man who doesnt even know the drinking age].This is what happens when we give government power.
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I dont know,why cant they leave men alone and allow them to use steroids if they want to.Now,we are soon going to lose the right to use vitamins and supplements thanks to piss ant midgets like Henry Waxman[a man who doesnt even know the drinking age].This is what happens when we give government power.
not true, ..just a stupid internet rumour that of course 333 ran with.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as Utah has powerful representation, the vitamin & supplement industry is safe.
For the facts of the matter feel free to view this post:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=329299.msg4696500#msg4696500
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not true, ..just a stupid internet rumour that of course 333 ran with.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as Utah has powerful representation, the vitamin & supplement industry is safe.
For the facts of the matter feel free to view this post:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=329299.msg4696500#msg4696500
Lets see.The government first banned d-bol.Then they made all steroids a controlled sunbstance.Then they banned pro hormones.If you think that this dirty rotten government will not put ALL supplements under control of the FDA in the guise of "performance enhancement" your nuts.If you give them an inch ,they take a mile.In 5 years you wont be able to get vitamin c without a perscription.
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horrible law.
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Lets see.The government first banned d-bol.Then they made all steroids a controlled sunbstance.Then they banned pro hormones.If you think that this dirty rotten government will not put ALL supplements under control of the FDA in the guise of "performance enhancement" your nuts.If you give them an inch ,they take a mile.In 5 years you wont be able to get vitamin c without a perscription.
Waxman's bill has to do with FTC powers vis-a-vis financial reform, not the FDA's vis-a-vis the vitamin & supplement industry.
I'm not saying the vitamin & supplement industry should not be vigilant, ..simply that this isn't a shot across their bow
I've probably got more dogs in this fight than you because I have extensive networks in multiple vitamin & supplement nutritional mlm's. I AM ever watchful, ...but I'm not about to go running off half-cocked fighting & protesting something that is not a reality or on the verge of becoming one. If we're busy fighting a non-realities... the deeper threats slide right by unopposed & unchallenged.
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Lets see.The government first banned d-bol.Then they made all steroids a controlled sunbstance.Then they banned pro hormones.If you think that this dirty rotten government will not put ALL supplements under control of the FDA in the guise of "performance enhancement" your nuts.If you give them an inch ,they take a mile.In 5 years you wont be able to get vitamin c without a perscription.
Ephedra for a while.
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horrible law.
Absolutely!!! For a number of reasons.
It's also extremely short-sighted. When the goverment starts instituting laws that prevent people from getting redress or justice under the law, ...they will get it outside of the law. And these are issues that affect people's lives forever... that's plenty of time to harbour a grudge and for desires for vengeance to fester. If people feel they have the right to murder doctors who have done no harm to them, ...how easily will people reserve the right to murder doctors who they feel have done actually harm to them by imposing their will through willfull, premeditated deception, resulting in lifelong consequences? ...and they are unable to get redress through the legal system?
That's like shielding doctors for failing to disclose a tiny cancer to a patient while it's still manageable, because the doctor is a Jehovah's Witness and doesn't believe in blood transfusions, and a cancer operation might require a blood transfusion.
Witholding information from a patient is egregious, and codifying it's practice into law is unconscionable.
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Ephedra for a while.
Ephedra still banned in the US..
However the active ingredient (ephedrine is still legal to purchase without a script).
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Ephedra still banned in the US..
However the active ingredient (ephedrine is still legal to purchase without a script).
Thanks for the clarification.
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Ephedra still banned in the US..
However the active ingredient (ephedrine is still legal to purchase without a script).
Oh I am well aware of how the government can mess with legitimate companies.
A friend of mine who just recently passed away, and was a co-founder in one of the companies of which I have interests was the master distributor for a company that was raped and pillaged by the government, in my opinion at the behest of well connected pharmaceutical companies. They made money hand over fist, doing BILLIONS of dollars in sales, and the government came along and took it all away.
Their story is well documented in 'The Metabolife Story - The Rape of Cinderella'
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rEOZTRxyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
The Metabolife Story - The Rape of Cinderella (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0982240201?ie=UTF8&tag=profitwave07-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0982240201)
Editorial Review
This book tells the story of a man who I have come to know very closely over the past twenty years. I first met Mr. Ellis when I arrested him for violation of federal drug laws in 1989. He received five years probation in that case, which I was responsible for investigating as an FBI agent. Over the years I have remained in contact with Mike and he has become my friend. I have no business relationship with him and never have, but as a friend, I have come to know him as a great family man, a philanthropic businessman, and dedicated to his principles. His best qualities are his honesty and integrity. He is a man of his word, and I believe this book tells his story in a way that reflects those principles. -- Jim H. Weaver, former special agent, Federal Bureau of Investigation
The Metabolife Story - The Rape of Cinderella represents author Michael Ellis detailed account of the rise and fall of Metabolife, one of the most successful, yet ultimately unfairly characterized dietary supplement companies in history. The Metabolife story is an unfathomable example of the American dream catapulted into nightmare by the government organizations whose purpose should have been to protect and cultivate the very ideals that dream was born from. Instead they conspired to systematically destroy it. Metabolife s story is a real-life account of both personal and professional triumph, systematically stolen away and replaced with numerous questions - about the motivations and actions of government agencies, the future of legally limiting medicinal and nutritional options in America, and the consumer public s right to freedom of choice when it comes to their own health. This is the story of a man whose devotion to family and friends occasionally impaired his judgment, but never his desire to protect and support them. And while he and his business partners found more success than they ever dreamed possible, they unfortunately discovered how success of this magnitude can often come at a steep price. This memoir traces Metabolife from its early days, centering on the struggles and successes in the face of tremendous opposition. It details the atmospheric rise of the wildly popular weight loss product known as Metabolife 356 which, ironically, was discovered by accident as a desirable affect to an all-natural, homeopathic attempt by its founder Michael Ellis, to offer his cancer-stricken father a more comfortable and cognizant quality of life. The tremendous business savvy behind this company s early success is also detailed in the book, highlighting their revolutionary approach to radio advertising and direct marketing. All the while chronicling the remarkable results experienced by its millions of consumers. The Metabolife story also provides observation on the truth and fiction behind the efficacy of both eastern and western medicinal practices. Last, it looks at the lengths government agencies will go to keep the American public from the truth. Ellis recounts the degradation of his professional and personal life as a result of intense media and governmental scrutiny. And he dares to ask the question of why even with significant scientific evidence proving the safety of his product he could see his company defamed by what amounts to little more than misinformation and a suspected desire to protect the business interests of the pharmaceutical industry. Metabolife s active ingredient, ephedrine, has been banned from the market or, at least in its natural herbal state, if produced and marketed by an herbal supplement company. Today, it remains possible for any consumer to purchase products containing this supposedly dangerous supplement known as ephedrine, but only as offered in products produced by pharmaceutical companies. The amount of ephedrine, and the utilization of another active ingredient, caffeine, in these FDA approved pharmaceutical products, far exceed the levels the FDA deemed as unsafe in Metabolife. In essence, The Metabolife Story is a perfect example of how lobbyists for powerful business sectors (e.g., the pharmaceutical industry) appear to have a stronger influence over government regulations than the best interests of the people these government agencies are assigned to protect. This book is written to give the American public, not only the opportunity to read all of the facts and decide the veracity of the public accounts themselves, but more importantly to stand up to the institutions created to protect their interests that are in fact prohibiting their constitutional rights.
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Thanks for the clarification.
Metabolife s active ingredient, ephedrine, has been banned from the market or, at least in its natural herbal state, if produced and marketed by an herbal supplement company. Today, it remains possible for any consumer to purchase products containing this supposedly dangerous supplement known as ephedrine, but only as offered in products produced by pharmaceutical companies. The amount of ephedrine, and the utilization of another active ingredient, caffeine, in these FDA approved pharmaceutical products, far exceed the levels the FDA deemed as unsafe in Metabolife. In essence, The Metabolife Story is a perfect example of how lobbyists for powerful business sectors (e.g., the pharmaceutical industry) appear to have a stronger influence over government regulations than the best interests of the people these government agencies are assigned to protect. This book is written to give the American public, not only the opportunity to read all of the facts and decide the veracity of the public accounts themselves, but more importantly to stand up to the institutions created to protect their interests that are in fact prohibiting their constitutional rights.
No problem, that paragraph was taken from the amazon book review that Jaguar posted, and it helps clarify some things.
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AST used to put out the real dymetadrine years ago that was kick ass.
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AST used to put out the real dymetadrine years ago that was kick ass.
Real dymetadrine?
I think that had real ephedrine in it? correct me if i'm wrong..
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I think so, it was really freaking good before they banned it and then they watered it down and tried to sell it as a new improved type thing but it was never as good as when before the govt banned it.