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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on May 09, 2010, 09:59:43 PM
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A ‘new level’ of disaster: BP’s 70-ton oil containment dome floats, no ‘plan B’
Concern grew Sunday that the US Gulf coast is facing a whole new level of environmental disaster after the best short-term fix for a massive oil spill ran into serious trouble.
BP's giant containment box lay idle on the seabed as engineers furiously tried to figure out how to stop it clogging with ice crystals.
The British energy giant, which owns the lion's share of the leaking oil and has accepted responsibility for the clean-up, has tried to banish the notion that the dome is a "silver bullet" to end the crisis.
But should efforts fail to make the giant funnel system effective, there is no solid plan B to prevent potentially tens of millions of gallons of crude from causing one of the worst ever environmental catastrophes
U.S. Gulf oil spill spreads west toward Texas
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What a nightmare. So now what, call Superman?
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I'm going to blame obama.
Bush got blamed for katrina and we are fast approaching the time time for equal treatment.
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I'm going to blame obama.
Bush got blamed for katrina and we are fast approaching the time time for equal treatment.
hahahaha... how shocking :D... 3333, we all knew you would blame obama from day 1.
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Why not right? Bush got treated the same way too.
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Why not right? Bush got treated the same way too.
oh we both know you wouldn't need to justify it with Bush :D We all knew you would blame him from day 1.
Not sure but is your point to defend Bush now?
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In alls eriousness, I dont blame obama for the oil thing and though the lefts' blaming Bush for Katrina was one of the lowest things I ever saw.
Real dirtbag shit.
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In alls eriousness, I dont blame obama for the oil thing and though the lefts' blaming Bush for Katrina was one of the lowest things I ever saw.
Real dirtbag shit.
are you talking about some of the CT's around Katrina? Like that Katrina was manipulated by the government? There are actually the same level of CT stuff going on from the right over this oil rig catastrophe. Even saw a Fox News clip where they were dabbling in conspiracy around the rig explosion. I might be wrong but I thought you made a post with insinuations too.
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There is a big difference between saying there is a CT befrehand and saying someone will try to capitilize off a tradgedy after the fact.
As for Katrina - blaming Bush was the height of liberal kookery.
Natual disasters happen, accidents happen, that's life.
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There is a big difference between saying there is a CT befrehand and saying someone will try to capitilize off a tradgedy after the fact.
As for Katrina - blaming Bush was the height of liberal kookery.
Natual disasters happen, accidents happen, that's life.
I don't know what part you're talking about around Katrina? Blaming him for his response or blaming him for being behind it? Both accusations happened.
Also if you're blaming the conspiracy theorists for suggesting the government had a hand in the actual hurricane, then I have to say you really can't blame it all on liberals. "Conspiracy theorists" don't really have a political affiliation. They really do come from all sides. Seriously, CTr's come from all walks, they're not just libs. Coasttocoastam even dabbled in this a bit and they're almost entirely marketed on rightwing radio stations.
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Everything around Katrina was what it was:
1. A massive natural disaster the likes of which had not been seen in decades.
2. an incompetent Mayor and Governor.
3. Parasites on the N.O. pd who could and would not do their jobs and also looted the joint.
4. A population of lazy, unprepared, free-loading, bums looking to loot the joint.
5. Old infrastructure.
6. Terrible terrain and landscape for that type of hurricane.
7. Incompetent Federal Govt.
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Everything around Katrina was what it was:
1. A massive natural disaster the likes of which had not been seen in decades.
2. an incompetent Mayor and Governor.
3. Parasites on the N.O. pd who could and would not do their jobs and also looted the joint.
4. A population of lazy, unprepared, free-loading, bums looking to loot the joint.
5. Old infrastructure.
6. Terrible terrain and landscape for that type of hurricane.
7. Incompetent Federal Govt.
so you're talking about the people who blamed Bush for his response to Katrina.... got it...
So if that's it, then the equivalent would be that you are disappointed with Obama's response? That you wanted Obama to do more?
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I realize and understand that the Federal Govt is an incompetent expensive mess of fools and thieves. I really dont expect Obama to be able to do anything but screw up an already bad situation. So I will give him a pass on this.
I dont need to see him in a helicopter flying over the site as if that is doing anything.
Same as Katrina - what did people expect Bush to do? Seriously, did they want him flying in the military from Day 1?
And where was the blame for that pofs mayor Nagin?
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I realize and understand that the Federal Govt is an incompetent expensive mess of fools and thieves. I really dont expect Obama to be able to do anything but screw up an already bad situation. So I will give him a pass on this.
I dont need to see him in a helicopter flying over the site as if that is doing anything.
Same as Katrina - what did people expect Bush to do? Seriously, did they want him flying in the military from Day 1?
And where was the blame for that pofs mayor Nagin?
why are you continuously avoiding my questions? It seems like each response is a slight run around of what I asked? I'm not even attacking you on this so I don't know why you would avoid direct answers? maybe it's the lawyer in you :D
Yes, the gov is incompetent. But on something like this would you like to see Obama order something done? I mean you can't fuck this up worse than it already is. As bad as the government is, I'm sure even they wouldn't manage on increasing the oil flow lol...
Again, the only reason I'm asking is that you equated this to what the left did which suggests placing the same blame on Obama. So it's either you're happy with Obama for not doing enough like Bush did or you're blaming Obama for the same reasons the left blamed Bush. I'm just trying to get it.
Lets also not to forget the all famous "National Security." The government, and mostly republicans, have done some massive shit in the name of national security. One could easily argue losing a major American city falls under National Security. One could also argue the same about all the industry threatened by this oil spill. Now I'm with you, I don't usually want the federal government fucking with our shit, but when it comes to shit that threatens to destroy vast sections of the country and or industry over multiple states, well fucking a man... I'd rather see them spend the money on that than 80 percent of what they waste our tax dollars on. major epic shit that threatens multiple states, yea, National fucking Interest bigtime. That's way more in the national interest than saving American banana companies from a socialist country ::) lol....
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Hugo - what I am saying is that i am not a child and have some belief that all Obama, Bush, or anyone has to do is press a magic buttor or wave a wand to fix these things in a matter of hours.
I am not blaming him or praising him on this.
As far as Katrina goes, if I remember correctly, didnt the mayor and gov down there said they had it under control for the evacuation before the hurricane hit?
Also, people were warned to leave and did not and I am supposed to be psised off at Bush for not rescuing them fast enough? I dont think so.
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Hugo - what I am saying is that i am not a child and have some belief that all Obama, Bush, or anyone has to do is press a magic buttor or wave a wand to fix these things in a matter of hours.
I am not blaming him or praising him on this.
I agree.
Also, people were warned to leave and did not and I am supposed to be psised off at Bush for not rescuing them fast enough? I dont think so.
Agreed as well. If people wanted to stay: fine. But then they are responsible for everything that follows from that decision.
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Let's see the free market handle this: BP should pay for all the clean-up, and all damage to all people and industries affected. Even if that means that BP goes bankrupt. Are they too big to fail?
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Hugo - what I am saying is that i am not a child and have some belief that all Obama, Bush, or anyone has to do is press a magic buttor or wave a wand to fix these things in a matter of hours.
I am not blaming him or praising him on this.
As far as Katrina goes, if I remember correctly, didnt the mayor and gov down there said they had it under control for the evacuation before the hurricane hit?
Also, people were warned to leave and did not and I am supposed to be psised off at Bush for not rescuing them fast enough? I dont think so.
this is another run around. 3333, just answer my questions, they are not hard or pressing questions and I'm not setting you up.
You say you're not blaming him, but that's what you did in trying to make a point. Now as far as I see, you have two viable options here. One is blaming him for not doing enough like Bush was blamed for. If you do not blame him for this, then you must be siding with Obama and should praise him for having a low profile response just like Bush did. Yet I have not heard you praise Obama for this and yet that is the description of Obama in this case. His response is every bit as exciting as Bush's... pretty much nothing. So fucking A, are you happy about that or are you against that? Just fucking say it, because from what you're saying, you should be praising Obama on his nothing response.
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People were told:
1. Leave - they were warned almost a week in advance.
2. If you were going to stay - have at least 72 hours or 5 days worth of provisions on hand. If you look at the response from the Feds, had the people who stayed followed that, they would have been ok.
But thats' not what happened. Instead, we had this crap:
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this is another run around. 3333, just answer my questions, they are not hard or pressing questions and I'm not setting you up.
You say you're not blaming him, but that's what you did in trying to make a point. Now as far as I see, you have two viable options here. One is blaming him for not doing enough like Bush was blamed for. If you do not blame him for this, then you must be siding with Obama and should praise him for having a low profile response just like Bush did. Yet I have not heard you praise Obama for this and yet that is the description of Obama in this case. His response is every bit as exciting as Bush's... pretty much nothing. So fucking A, are you happy about that or are you against that? Just fucking say it, because from what you're saying, you should be praising Obama on his nothing response.
I am neutral. On balance I would say at least he is not in a copter doing 360's over the place.
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Let's see the free market handle this: BP should pay for all the clean-up, and all damage to all people and industries affected. Even if that means that BP goes bankrupt. Are they too big to fail?
well one thing is for sure, BP IS big enough to pay for all the industry lost and the people effected and still be back on their feet making billions per quarter in a few years. But most likely they will not have to do that. Most likely people will be fucked with no recourse to act against BP. Vast amounts of wildlife will die and they will keep on doing what they do... While 400 year old sea turtles wash up on shore dead, BP will go on...
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well one thing is for sure, BP IS big enough to pay for all the industry lost and the people effected and still be back on their feet making billions per quarter in a few years. But most likely they will not have to do that. Most likely people will be fucked with no recourse to act against BP. Vast amounts of wildlife will die and they will keep on doing what they do... While 400 year old sea turtles wash up on shore dead, BP will go on...
Unfortunate, but true. A few donations here and there, and they will get immunity from having to pay for all of it. If they don't have a loophole in their current contract already.
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I am neutral. On balance I would say at least he is not in a copter doing 360's over the place.
NO NO homie... You opened this can of worms. I didn't open it, you did. By what you opened up, you should be praising Obama for not doing anything. Why in the hell would you agree with Bush's response and blame Obama for the same nothing? And then when called out on it, say you're neutral? LOL, your opinion has been everything but neutral so don't even pull that bs lol... I love ya 3333, but gotta call you on this?
And I still have my national security question......
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Unfortunate, but true. A few donations here and there, and they will get immunity from having to pay for all of it. If they don't have a loophole in their current contract already.
currently they are limited to paying a very small fraction of what may quickly become the biggest man made disaster to hit America. Some are already calling it that. Under the current situation, CEO's of BP will probably still get their fat ass bonuses while American fisherman lose their asses.
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currently they are limited to paying a very small fraction of what may quickly become the biggest man made disaster to hit America. Some are already calling it that. Under the current situation, CEO's of BP will probably still get their fat ass bonuses while American fisherman lose their asses.
Okay. Can't say I'm surprised.
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3333?
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3333?
What is your question?
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The Cover-up: BP's Crude Politics and the Looming Environmental Mega-Disaster
Written by Wayne Madsen
http://oilprice.com/Environment/Oil-Spills/The-Cover-up-BP-s-Crude-Politics-and-the-Looming-Environmental-Mega-Disaster.html
WMR has been informed by sources in the US Army Corps of Engineers, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and Florida Department of Environmental Protection that the Obama White House and British Petroleum (BP), which pumped $71,000 into Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign -- more than John McCain or Hillary Clinton, are covering up the magnitude of the volcanic-level oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico and working together to limit BP's liability for damage caused by what can be called a "mega-disaster."
Obama and his senior White House staff, as well as Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, are working with BP's chief executive officer Tony Hayward on legislation that would raise the cap on liability for damage claims from those affected by the oil disaster from $75 million to $10 billion. However, WMR's federal and Gulf state sources are reporting the disaster has the real potential cost of at least $1 trillion. Critics of the deal being worked out between Obama and Hayward point out that $10 billion is a mere drop in the bucket for a trillion dollar disaster but also note that BP, if its assets were nationalized, could fetch almost a trillion dollars for compensation purposes. There is talk in some government circles, including FEMA, of the need to nationalize BP in order to compensate those who will ultimately be affected by the worst oil disaster in the history of the world.
Plans by BP to sink a 4-story containment dome over the oil gushing from a gaping chasm one kilometer below the surface of the Gulf, where the oil rig Deepwater Horizon exploded and killed 11 workers on April 20, and reports that one of the leaks has been contained is pure public relations disinformation designed to avoid panic and demands for greater action by the Obama administration, according to FEMA and Corps of Engineers sources. Sources within these agencies say the White House has been resisting releasing any "damaging information" about the oil disaster. They add that if the ocean oil geyser is not stopped within 90 days, there will be irreversible damage to the marine eco-systems of the Gulf of Mexico, north Atlantic Ocean, and beyond. At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf.
Only after the magnitude of the disaster became evident did Obama order Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to declare the oil disaster a "national security issue." Although the Coast Guard and FEMA are part of her department, Napolitano's actual reasoning for invoking national security was to block media coverage of the immensity of the disaster that is unfolding for the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean and their coastlines.
From the Corps of Engineers, FEMA, the Environmental Protection Agency, Coast Guard, and Gulf state environmental protection agencies, the message is the same: "we've never dealt with anything like this before."
The Obama administration also conspired with BP to fudge the extent of the oil leak, according to our federal and state sources. After the oil rig exploded and sank, the government stated that 42,000 gallons per day was gushing from the seabed chasm. Five days later, the federal government upped the leakage to 210,000 gallons a day.
However, WMR has been informed that submersibles that are monitoring the escaping oil from the Gulf seabed are viewing television pictures of what is a "volcanic-like" eruption of oil. Moreover, when the Army Corps of Engineers first attempted to obtain NASA imagery of the Gulf oil slick -- which is larger than that being reported by the media -- it was turned down. However, National Geographic managed to obtain the satellite imagery shots of the extent of the disaster and posted them on their web site.
There is other satellite imagery being withheld by the Obama administration that shows what lies under the gaping chasm spewing oil at an ever-alarming rate is a cavern estimated to be around the size of Mount Everest. This information has been given an almost national security-level classification to keep it from the public, according to our sources.
The Corps and Engineers and FEMA are quietly critical of the lack of support for quick action after the oil disaster by the Obama White House and the US Coast Guard. Only recently, has the Coast Guard understood the magnitude of the disaster, dispatching nearly 70 vessels to the affected area. WMR has also learned that inspections of off-shore rigs' shut-off valves by the Minerals Management Service during the Bush administration were merely rubber-stamp operations, resulting from criminal collusion between Halliburton and the Interior Department's service, and that the potential for similar disasters exists with the other 30,000 off-shore rigs that use the same shut-off valves.
The impact of the disaster became known to the Corps of Engineers and FEMA even before the White House began to take the magnitude of the impending catastrophe seriously. The first casualty of the disaster is the seafood industy, with not just fishermen, oystermen, crabbers, and shrimpers losing their jobs, but all those involved in the restaurant industry, from truckers to waitresses, facing lay-offs.
The invasion of crude oil into estuaries like the oyster-rich Apalachicola Bay in Florida spell disaster for the seafood industry. However, the biggest threat is to Florida's Everglades, which federal and state experts fear will be turned into a "dead zone" if the oil continues to gush forth from the Gulf chasm. There are also expectations that the oil slick will be caught up in the Gulf stream off the eastern seaboard of the United States, fouling beaches and estuaries like the Chesapeake Bay, and ultimately target the rich fishing grounds of the Grand Banks off Newfoundland.
WMR has also learned that 36 urban areas on the Gulf of Mexico are expecting to be confronted with a major disaster from the oil volcano in the next few days. Although protective water surface boons are being laid to protect such sensitive areas as Alabama's Dauphin Island, the mouth of the Mississippi River, and Florida's Apalachicola Bay, Florida, there is only 16 miles of boons available for the protection of 2,276 miles of tidal shoreline in the state of Florida.
Emergency preparations in dealing with the expanding oil menace are now being made for cities and towns from Corpus Christi, Texas, to Houston, New Orleans, Gulfport, Mobile, Pensacola, Tampa-St.Petersburg-Clearwater, Sarasota-Bradenton, Naples, and Key West. Some 36 FEMA-funded contracts between cities, towns, and counties and emergency workers are due to be invoked within days, if not hours, according to WMR's FEMA sources.
There are plans to evacuate people with respiratory problems, especially those among the retired senior population along the west coast of Florida, before officials begin burning surface oil as it begins to near the coastline.
There is another major threat looming for inland towns and cities. With hurricane season in effect, there is a potential for ocean oil to be picked up by hurricane-driven rains and dropped into fresh water lakes and rivers, far from the ocean, thus adding to the pollution of water supplies and eco-systems.
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What is your question?
lol, for real? my last post to you? and actually several questions went unanswered.
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Bro - I'm juggling 20 things this am. Restate it please.
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Bro - I'm juggling 20 things this am. Restate it please.
::) you can't hit page 1 and read my post?
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wait, if you would like I'll wait till you don't have a lot to do and talk about this. Let me know; will that be tomorrow or when? I'll then bump the thread and we can talk about it later. But I'm going to feel a little bullshited if you post all day on other subjects but had to much going on to reply for this lol...
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The answer to your question is again that I am happy he is not out there with the hard hat and helicopter.
However, if this thing is a national security threat, then it is his job to take action of some sort.
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The answer to your question is again that I am happy he is not out there with the hard hat and helicopter.
However, if this thing is a national security threat, then it is his job to take action of some sort.
they have called National Security over much much less. If you need me to back that up, just say so. So what does that say about this situation? We have industry threatened in several states, easily what they have called in the National Security in the past.
So, even you have two eyes. We have a situation that is threatening industry over several states, should the feds/obama, with our tax dollars, step in?
Yes that last question is one I'm putting to you directly 3333, please let me know.
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Yes, because at this point, it will probably cost a ton more when the states need their own bailout to deal with this. But I dont even know what the Fed Gov could do at this point.
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Yes, because at this point, it will probably cost a ton more when the states need their own bailout to deal with this. But I dont even know what the Fed Gov could do at this point.
are you now saying that the President of the United States could not do more than BP? Really? I tend to think he has the power to call in more power on this than BP has at hand.
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And do what?
you are assuming that they have an answer in dealing with this that BP does not.
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And do what?
you are assuming that they have an answer in dealing with this that BP does not.
we obviously have powers to assist in ways no fucking single business on earth could. ::) You're not that fucking stupid are you?
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Of course, but I really dont think the Fed Gov knows and more what to do than BP does at this point.
Send a few carriers over there? To do what? Send some submarines? to do what?
Coast Guard? for what?
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People were told:
1. Leave - they were warned almost a week in advance.
2. If you were going to stay - have at least 72 hours or 5 days worth of provisions on hand. If you look at the response from the Feds, had the people who stayed followed that, they would have been ok.
But thats' not what happened. Instead, we had this crap:
# where the hell you are going with this comment is beyond me, but as Hugo says you are certainly avoiding answering the question.
You seem to have forgotten that hurricane Katrina turned into a category 5 the night before it hit. Prior to it was a cat 3 of which people had gone through many times. Some said they wanted to stay the vast majority wanted to leave, but you seem to have forgotten BLACK WATER/FEMA got involved in New Orleans and stopped all Amtrak, air line, Greyhound, private bus service and even school buses from transporting the people out of New Orleans.
Multiple hospitals killed the patients instead of having them transported out to other cities further inland claiming they couldn't get them transported out in time. If they had a weeks notice how come they did not move the patients earlier? So far as the massive flooding, I already said on this board that people need to watch the documentary WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE to find out what really happened in New Orleans during Katrina: Blackwater shooting people, forcing many who were leaving the city to turn back, reversed the pumps to pump water out of Lake Pontchartrain into New Orleans to increase flooding, blow up the levee (multiple residue of explosives found on the levee) which caused massive flooding. In case you did not see the video of Katrina (which is impossible) the water rose to the roofs of homes...what good would having any provisions have done? People did not even have proper sanitation or clean water. How would you open can goods without a can opener? What water could you use for dry goods? With flooding that bad even if you had these things the flooding water would have washed the provisions right out of your home.
So farr as condemning people...right now it seems there has never really been a natural disaster in New York for a long time. But at some point an event has to happen...I want to see what you do when it does. It is easy to quarter back from the side lines...it is another thing when you are on the field.
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The people were told a week in advance to leave and have 72 hours to 96 hours worth of provisions on hand.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for those people who did not heed the warnings or did not prepare.
They gambled and lost, tough shit.
Also, how is blackwater and fema at fault for this:
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What a nightmare. So now what, call Superman?
IRON MAN
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What's funny is the shift that happened after Katrina. Before Katrina, many right leaning people argued for their right to say fuck the government and do what they want. There were even rightwingers that supported the few that stayed at Mt St. Helens after the warning... guys like Harry Truman where somewhat honored for their choice to stay. Yea, many including myself felt it was tragic but still felt that was his right to stay. Katrina changed all that. All of a sudden when it was black and poor faces, they outright blamed them for not leaving. Just ironic, nothing more.
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I'm not blaming them for not leaving. I'm blaming them for being helpless lazy idiots for not preparing for what they were told was coming.
Did you see some of the "men" in the aftermath? They acted like freaking cry babies, animals, and your stereotypical ghetto thug.
They gambled and lost, tough shit.
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The people were told a week in advance to leave and have 72 hours to 96 hours worth of provisions on hand.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for those people who did not heed the warnings or did not prepare.
They gambled and lost, tough shit.
Also, how is blackwater and fema at fault for this:
Nice attitude to have 3 toward a calamity
A week in advance the storm was a category 1 with no real sense of where it was going to go and no need to leave New Orleans or have any provisions. The storm escalated from 2 to 5 in two days which by then FEMA/BLACKWATER had suspended transportation into and out of New Orleans even though there was plenty of time to move people elsewhere. Ground traffic was also suspended so people could not even drive out of the city.
How is it Fema/Balackwaters fault...I already explained it...Did you not read it?
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author=333386 link=topic=330231.msg4713268#msg4713268 date=1273513434]
I'm not blaming them for not leaving.
Yes you are..the whole crux of your anger toward them is the fact that you say they stayed after supposed warnings.
I'm blaming them for being helpless lazy idiots for not preparing for what they were told was coming.
Can not the same be said of New Yorkers who were "surprised" by the 911 attacks. I guess one could say hey you guys should have been prepared, because the building was attacked in 1993 and therefor you should have known it would have happened again, but being the lazy stupid New Yorkers you are, you deserved that...
Did you see some of the "men" in the aftermath? They acted like freaking cry babies, animals, and your stereotypical ghetto thug.
No three I did not see men acting like cry babies. What I saw were people who were in a literal HELL OR HIGH WATER condition with no means of survival. People who had watched their mothers, fathers, children, possessions washed away or drowned under the water. The world saw a people operating without food, clean water, proper sanitation or help of any kind whatsoever. We watched people wading in water chest high trying to find dry land or high ground, the world saw a country do NOTHING to help resolve the situation and as a matter of fact made matter worst, especially after many nations offered their services and america told them NO!!!
They gambled and lost, tough shit.
You will have your turn
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I'm not blaming them for not leaving. I'm blaming them for being helpless lazy idiots for not preparing for what they were told was coming.
Did you see some of the "men" in the aftermath? They acted like freaking cry babies, animals, and your stereotypical ghetto thug.
They gambled and lost, tough shit.
you've changed your story several times in this thread.... What's up 3333? First you're blaming Obama, then you're not blaming Obama, then you're blaming the people, then you're not blaming the people but still blaming the people... I would have an easier time understanding crazies on the psycho ward :D
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What's funny is the shift that happened after Katrina. Before Katrina, many right leaning people argued for their right to say fuck the government and do what they want. There were even rightwingers that supported the few that stayed at Mt St. Helens after the warning... guys like Harry Truman where somewhat honored for their choice to stay. Yea, many including myself felt it was tragic but still felt that was his right to stay. Katrina changed all that. All of a sudden when it was black and poor faces, they outright blamed them for not leaving. Just ironic, nothing more.
I think you really misunderstand the viewpoint of most conservatives...most are for accountability and responsibility i.e.
IF you choose to stay against all better judgement and reasoning you should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. You should have plans for worst case scenarios, you should have supplies, you should be ready to use both in case you need them.
you shouldnt whine and complain and expect others to come to your rescue for a decision that you yourself made...ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!!!!!
that being said I dont think katrina and its aftermath could have been a likely reasonable outcome in most ppls minds.
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I may, and it might happen, but I have enough provisions on hand to get through most things, and if I were there, I would have had plenty to get me through. The bottom line is that at the end of the day you and everyone else is on their own. People were told to have 72 hours of provisions on hand. Had they done so, they wouldnt have had to do a Dawn of the Dead like Zombie march over to the Superdome which in itself was a disgrace.
And please - 911 is not the same as Katrina.
The people in the buildings were not told a week in advance that an attack was coming.
If you want to blame them for working there in the first place, that is another argument altogether.
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you've changed your story several times in this thread.... What's up 3333? First you're blaming Obama, then you're not blaming Obama, then you're blaming the people, then you're not blaming the people but still blaming the people... I would have an easier time understanding crazies on the psycho ward :D
My blaming "obama" was a joke. I dont blame him at all for the oil situation, unlike the people who blamed Bush for Katrina.
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you've changed your story several times in this thread.... What's up 3333? First you're blaming Obama, then you're not blaming Obama, then you're blaming the people, then you're not blaming the people but still blaming the people... I would have an easier time understanding crazies on the psycho ward :D
I thought it was just me for a moment thanks for letting me know otherwise
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I think it was obvious that 333 blaming obama for the oil spill was an analogy to the idiocy of others blaming bush for katrina...
samson is a good example of this idiocy I speak of :D
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I think you really misunderstand the viewpoint of most conservatives...most are for accountability and responsibility i.e.
IF you choose to stay against all better judgement and reasoning you should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. You should have plans for worst case scenarios, you should have supplies, you should be ready to use both in case you need them.
you shouldn't whine and complain and expect others to come to your rescue for a decision that you yourself made...ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!!!!!
that being said I don't think Katrina and its aftermath could have been a likely reasonable outcome in most ppls minds.
no, I do understand that and you're right on that point. You should be prepared for yourself if you're going to stay and should not be calling out to the federal government for help after refusing warnings. You're right about this and I do get it.
On a slightly different angle, I think the central gov should recognize when a catastrophe is so huge it's going to fuck up the entire country. That is in the national interest to protect and aid in. Again I would rather have our tax dollars going to that than most of the shit they spend on. If something came in and wasted half my state along with part of other states, I would not mind a little help that we fucking paid for. I'd much rather the money be spent on us after all we've paid to them. I mean when it becomes such a large scale catastrophe that it buries the states in their ability, it must be of national interest to step in. There are actually laws already permitting this.
In the case of the oil spill, let's look at that. We have something here that is threatening a vast industry of America. Kindly tell me how it is not in our national interest to immediately do what we can? This is the kind of stuff that goes beyond a state. It is going to affect many states. If the federal government is not willing or able to aid in problems that effect many states, then we don't even need those fucks.
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I thought it was obvious I was doing that. I guess not.
Bush deserved blame for a ton of crap, but Katrina was definately not one of them.
The bums in NO are the same ones who you wait ten minutes behind on the gas station while they play numbers or do scratch offs, etc.
I really have zero sympathy for them anymore. They were warned to leave and didnt. They were told to have 72 hours of supplies on hand, and sat back and thought the Gubmint was going to do everything for them.
Tough shit.
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I thought it was obvious I was doing that. I guess not.
Bush deserved blame for a ton of crap, but Katrina was definately not one of them.
The bums in NO are the same ones who you wait ten minutes behind on the gas station while they play numbers or do scratch offs, etc.
I really have zero sympathy for them anymore. They were warned to leave and didnt. They were told to have 72 hours of supplies on hand, and sat back and thought the Gubmint was going to do everything for them.
Tough shit.
at this point, in this thread, you've lost cred. STFU and move on to the next thread :D
OHHHHHH :D
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Why is that Hugo?
I made a joke in the beginning and though the brilliant minds on this board would pick it up. I guess not.
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Why is that Hugo?
I made a joke in the beginning and though the brilliant minds on this board would pick it up. I guess not.
right back at yea obviously ;)
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I may, and it might happen, but I have enough provisions on hand to get through most things, and if I were there, I would have had plenty to get me through. The bottom line is that at the end of the day you and everyone else is on their own. People were told to have 72 hours of provisions on hand. Had they done so, they wouldnt have had to do a Dawn of the Dead like Zombie march over to the Superdome which in itself was a disgrace.
And please - 911 is not the same as Katrina.
The people in the buildings were not told a week in advance that an attack was coming.
If you want to blame them for working there in the first place, that is another argument altogether.
You know the funny thing about life? Just when you think you have it all worked out a situation arises to let you know that YOU DON'T. Before you get comfortable with provisions and guns realize that any of a number of unexpected situations can occur that will make having provisions USELESS. The people who lived in downtown Manhattan who went to work on 911 may have had provisions and guns just in case something happened. Little did they know that on that day they would not be allowed back into their apartments to access those provisions or anything else for that matter and that the police would go through all of their apartments while they were not their and rifle through their belongings...taking what they will. Did you ever stop and think of that scenario? Did you ever thnk that you could be in a situation where the water, electricity adn gas are all turned off? How will you function? sanitation? What if the police quarantine your building or house or area? Then what? If the police show up at your door will you open it? What if they come and take your guns and food? Now what?
Was Katrina the same as 911...Very similar. Government was warned of "terrorist" using planes to attack WTC months in advance and they did nothing. You seem to have forgotten the speech made by Condelessa Rice admitting to receiving warnings MONTHS IN ADVANCE. During the day of attack many found themselves instantly homeless, without money, clothes, a place to go, or help from city state or government. Just like Katrina there was no answers too and for anything and like Katrina many were left dead in the aftermath of something preventable. Like Katrina/New Orleans which sits still in ruins, lower Manhattan is still in ruins and still has a giant hole in the ground. Add to this all thousands dying from asbestos and chemicals from the WTC collapse with no help from government: federal, state or city and you have nearly an identical situation in New Orleans
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HUGO - 90% of the people I grew up with and around sounded just like Andrew Dice Clay.
This one is the best.
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HUGO - 90% of the people I grew up with and around sounded just like Andrew Dice Clay.
This one is the best.
oh yea, great movie. I have all those movies and love them. forgettaboutit..... ;D
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no, I do understand that and you're right on that point. You should be prepared for yourself if you're going to stay and should not be calling out to the federal government for help after refusing warnings. You're right about this and I do get it.
On a slightly different angle, I think the central gov should recognize when a catastrophe is so huge it's going to fuck up the entire country. That is in the national interest to protect and aid in. Again I would rather have our tax dollars going to that than most of the shit they spend on. If something came in and wasted half my state along with part of other states, I would not mind a little help that we fucking paid for. I'd much rather the money be spent on us after all we've paid to them. I mean when it becomes such a large scale catastrophe that it buries the states in their ability, it must be of national interest to step in. There are actually laws already permitting this.
In the case of the oil spill, let's look at that. We have something here that is threatening a vast industry of America. Kindly tell me how it is not in our national interest to immediately do what we can? This is the kind of stuff that goes beyond a state. It is going to affect many states. If the federal government is not willing or able to aid in problems that effect many states, then we don't even need those fucks.
I agree and I think that 333 would agree to that as well
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I agree with that and dont need to see Obama walking around w a hard hat on as if that is doing anything productive.
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I agree with that and dont need to see Obama walking around w a hard hat on as if that is doing anything productive.
yea, what you're talking about is how politicians absolutely need to get their photo-op in on a tragedy. I agree with that. I do not need to see Obama in pictures down there helping out and all that shit. That's as lame and self serving as it gets. I've watched past presidents do this crap and I always wanna puke. But on a disaster that affects several states, I have no problem with the federal government spending our tax dollars to aid in whatever way they can.