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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Markoni on May 25, 2010, 12:05:12 PM
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Dante posted this here http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=40818
****Remember 2 years ago when I warned you about the oncoming milk shortage and what it would do to whey protein prices? And across the board whey protein prices rose.....
This makes that look like a blip.
I am forewarning everyone. Two major soft drink company's (here I'll make it easy, they begin with C and P to narrow it down, thats all I'll say).....have pretty much shut down the whey protein industry for the rest of 2010. The one company is coming out with a RTD whey product and the other company and their "Alligatorade" drink (think about it) bought a half a billion pounds of whey protein in which they are going to launch their Ready To Drink protein product. Now to do this they bought up all the raw ingredients from all corners or the earth and even existing product out there to tweak into their product. The other company bought a tremendous amount of whey from Asia which in turn is making a huge shortage here in the United States with manufacturers trying to catch up.
This "Alligatorade" drink company acquisition is going to drive whey protein prices skyrocketing northward. The problem is whey is a byproduct of cheese/dairy and the dairies arent going to start manufacturing more cheese to get more byproduct=whey protein (and throw away the cheese).
So and im strongly warning you on this....STRONGLY...trust me that this is going to happen. They bought up a tremendous amount of raw ingredients of whey isolate to mix into their sugar water. 500 million pounds....The other company bought up a tremendous amount of whey protein concentrate.
Whats this mean to you?
We are going to try our best to hold the line but what we are being told is whey protein could very well go to 2 - 3 times the price per pound of what it currently is. And I mean this across the board from every single protein powder company out there.....and in any and every area of whey protein being sold out there.
We probably are in the process of getting rid of the recession whey protein pricing right today due to this but we are going to try to hold out on everything else as long as we can. You will see whey protein powder prices rise and rise and rise for the next month after month after month elsewhere in stores, in retails sites....everywhere.
Do you still want to "be like Mike"?
My prediction? That sugar water company will abandon this in early 2011 after it fails miserably but the tremendous damage will be done by then.
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Thanks for the heads up I believe you
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holy shit...
Yea Dante, isn't the type to blow sunshine
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SDIFVNDSIOVNS GATORADE adfsgfgvdfsgvdfsgSDFDVF SUCKS SFdsgvdfsgfdsgb
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its gonna be.. pea protein time babay!!!
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Good post, OP! I'm just glad that whey isn't the only source of protein in the world. I'm sure marketing will either a. pump up the virtues of whey to defend the premium prices or b. start talking about the old ways are the best ways and we should use egg/beef/dog/cat protein for better bioavailability or some horseapples. :)
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That Gatorade drink is shit. It has 35 grams of cassein/whey and 60 grams of fucking sugar. Horrible drink. Just horrible. Why? I wonder if musclemilk really has some of the market and they are scared.
As for Dante fear mongering. Don't stress it.
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If price of whey goes up, same will be for micellar casein, calcium caseinate ... possibly others two because supplement companies will look for other source of protein.
http://gatorade.elsstore.com/view/category/1297-new---recovery-shakes/
3$/can of 20g of whey + sugar and who knows what poison will they put in, if we compare to today price for 3$ we can buy almost 300g of WPC
I guess only option is to stock up with whey or other protein powder and hope that this sh.t wont last long
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OH FUCK!
just means I get to eat more red meat 8)
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More info :
This is from Bruce, VP at Gaspari Nutrition:
"Guys,
I am pretty well plugged into the global commodities market for dietary supplements and sports nutrition. Even folks who might not care too much for me will tell you that I am "juiced in" pretty deep in Asia as well as with the protein vendors in NZ, Australia, etc.
There is a very big whey protein shortage brewing that will probably see the price of most protein supps (especially lower end stuff made from WPC 80 and caseinates) get really pricey in the next couple of months and soar through the winter. I am not sure how this will effect bigger companies that have contracts locked in for MT amounts per month but the smaller (and in many cases, the stupider) companies that spot buy WPC/caseinates are going to be pushed out of business. Ultimately, your choice as a consumer is going to be limited I would imagine unless you're just in it to buy REALLY high end stuff. Anyone who knows anything can tell you the price of WPC 80 and the caseinates went up about 30% since the start of the year. Yesterday I got a notice that for as of June 1st, a protein I buy for Gaspari is going up another 11%.
So what's going on? Two things.
First, the Chinese are buying up a motherload of the lower end whey for their own domestic market to make baby formula and "liquid food supplements" for sick people. With a bigger middle class, Chinese can now afford not to breast feed and they are buying baby formula at a monster rate. Since the melamine "issue" most Chinese who can afford to choose not to buy their own domestic whey - but they are gobbling up a ton of the stuff from India, Australia and New Zealand.
Second, two of the large soda companies (need I mention who?) are rumored to be coming out with their own RTD's that are WPC 37 and 80 based. The rumor is that between the two of them, they cornered much of the spot market buy buying HALF A BILLION KILOGRAMS of whey proteins of all sorts. That is an incomprehensible amount.
So what I have seen in the last few month is a large run on WPC's and caseinates and since the price of these up shifting upwards, I am seeing people who would not normally buy isolates go after them because the price differences between a lower end isolate and a medium concentrate or caseinate is becoming non-existent. And an isolate has a better margin/premium which allows for more profit/ability to discount than a concentrate where the mark up is (and I am not BS'ing you guys here) at best 30%-40% over cost. At some point it will become economically unviable for many smaller companies to put out WPC/caseinate products because they will not be able to make any money at all on it.
The larger protein companies should not be affected for another 6-9 months until their current supply contracts come up for renewal. You pay a little premium to "lock in" a price for 90-180 days and many times it turns out not to be needed this "protein insurance policy."
This time, those of us who were smart enough to play the "options game" with protein will be in good shape - these are the bigger companies. Most smaller companies can't buy 10 MT of protein at a whack (the minimum needed to lock in a contract typically). They are going to get bent over.
In the end, you will still be able to buy whey protein. You might see a huge increase in the price and "discounts end." Or you might see a sudden burst of isolate and hydrolysates on the market and concentrates/caseinates become scarce (with the excuse that companies want to sell a "better protein" which is indeed true - but not the real reason).
My sources tell me that they think the big beverage companies making RTD's are really overestimating the market for products like this (I think they have too) and are going to be stuck with a ton of expensive finished stuff nobody wants because it will be loaded with a ton of carbs to make it taste good for the masses.
Regardless, expect the remainder of 2010 and most of 2011 to be a bad stretch for people looking to purchase finished products that contain whey protein concentrate and caseinates for the most part (there will be exceptions of course - those of us who have contracts are good for at least another 90-180 on price).
Because of this, I am no longer giving out free samples of Intrapro or any other protein based product Gaspari Nutrition makes (Real Mass, Myofusion or Intrapro - I will still give out SizeOn samples because this uses a high end, expensive WPH that is pretty much predigested into di-tri peptides and not affected by the market spike in the price of other proteins).
If it were me and I liked a smaller companies cheap-o protein I would get it now while you can.
Good luck folks,
BK"
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This is from Bruce, VP at Gaspari Nutrition:
...If it were me and I liked a smaller companies cheap-o protein I would get it now while you can...
Or seek different sources for protein supplementation. You'd think whey is the only protein on the planet with the way the thread is going. :)
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yeah, in thinking about this i think that the growing middle class in developing countries like china and india will cause a far greater impact that coke ever could...
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I think C and P have a lot to learn about the RTD sports drink market. Sure they know how to market products. But Most Body Builders are not too keen on Sugar. I guess this is a product meant for the January Gym Rates.
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I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't first test market this product before investing so much.
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There’s nothing to say they didn’t - just because we didn’t hear about it.
As far as the market, I doubt that bb’ers are their sole target demographic.
Coke & Pepsi have been selling high-sugar drinks for a lot of years and have done quite well doing so.
The addition of protein may likely be a marketing ploy devised to capitalize on existing customers who already use and like the colas, are accepting of the heaps of sugar content, and would probably spend a few dollars more for a “healthy” addition to their beloved drinks.
Simply put - it’s more of a gimmick than a nutritious RTD.
Much of the general public loves Pepsi.
If they can market it as "healthy," maybe people will want to drink more of it, or at least not feel so bad about drinking as much as they do.
The people who love & consume sugary sodas in mass quantities will not analyze a nutrition label with the same considerations we would.
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Many of the schools are pulling sodas from their vending machines.. "P" and "C" probably are thinking that they going to look good by pulling their reg. products and introducing these "healthy" drinks in their place.
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You can say Coke and Pepsi. Sheesh!
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You can say Coke and Pepsi. Sheesh!
Just lazy ;D
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This is not as calamitous as Markoni makes it appear. There'll always be plenty of sources of protein available.
You also don't have to take your protein in the form of a powder. Aren't you guys sick of messy shakes and blenders to wash?
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Got any substitutes for sale, Jag? :)
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One of the companies I buy whey from online just emailed me that Optimum Nutrition is facing a shortage of supply and as such, their products are back ordered. Now whether that has anything to do with the OP's info/theory I don't know, but it may (seems like it). However, then again, a 5lb bag of EAS at Sam's club actually came down in price (~ 50 cents or so) and even at its orig price it was a bargain. Comments/thoughts?
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My one supplier lists a lot of ON’s stuff as out of stock, including their casein and soy powders in addition to the wheys.
The other company I deal with has no backorder listings for Optimum.
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Alright, let's just relax and think this through. I was gonna start a thread based on my findings as of late about whey products and commercial milk vs raw milk, but I may as well comment and address some issues here. Basically without going into too much detail, most (90th percentile) supp companies buy this so called "whey" protein at cheap prices and in high bulk to market, manufacture, and sell as something that is in tact, and works. I hate to burst your bubble but that same whey they sell to the public consumer is useless. Yeah that's right, useless. 1st off because all the good enzymes are being killed off in the pasteurizing process, and second (which should be 1st) the very cows they're getting this whey from are sick. They extend the natural time processing period of a cow by pumping them up with hormones and feeding them garbage to fatten them up. If you question what I'm saying, try to find out where exactly the source of the whey is coming from, from any manufacturer. The only one I found to get their source from healthy cows is Jay Robb's. I don't like wasting money, so if you do, then don't heed my advice. But if you do care, and you don't wanna waste your time or money, do a little research. Don't be fooled. These companies don't care about you. Only your money. Very few put out anything that's listed on the labels, or that work. The FDA is a joke in this country, so you as the consumer have to take your own precaution. Like I said, I don't wanna go into grave detail on this thread, because it's too much, but I wouldn't worry about a shortage of whey, if most of it isn't doing anything for you anyway.
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i have been having no problem at all getting as much ON as i need.....
bench
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Alright, let's just relax and think this through. I was gonna start a thread based on my findings as of late about whey products and commercial milk vs raw milk, but I may as well comment and address some issues here. Basically without going into too much detail, most (90th percentile) supp companies buy this so called "whey" protein at cheap prices and in high bulk to market, manufacture, and sell as something that is in tact, and works. I hate to burst your bubble but that same whey they sell to the public consumer is useless. Yeah that's right, useless. 1st off because all the good enzymes are being killed off in the pasteurizing process, and second (which should be 1st) the very cows they're getting this whey from are sick. They extend the natural time processing period of a cow by pumping them up with hormones and feeding them garbage to fatten them up. If you question what I'm saying, try to find out where exactly the source of the whey is coming from, from any manufacturer. The only one I found to get their source from healthy cows is Jay Robb's. I don't like wasting money, so if you do, then don't heed my advice. But if you do care, and you don't wanna waste your time or money, do a little research. Don't be fooled. These companies don't care about you. Only your money. Very few put out anything that's listed on the labels, or that work. The FDA is a joke in this country, so you as the consumer have to take your own precaution. Like I said, I don't wanna go into grave detail on this thread, because it's too much, but I wouldn't worry about a shortage of whey, if most of it isn't doing anything for you anyway.
Well I agree that what is out there might not be the best grade, I find it hard to believe that it's complete useless junk, if it was all the Pro's and BBers out there wouldn't grow, 50% of their diets in many cases is supplemented with whey. Just my friendly 2 cents.
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Well I agree that what is out there might not be the best grade, I find it hard to believe that it's complete useless junk, if it was all the Pro's and BBers out there wouldn't grow, 50% of their diets in many cases is supplemented with whey. Just my friendly 2 cents.
From my research over the past 8 years of following the sport, the majority of Pro BBers eat between 6-8 solid meals a day, and supplement only about 1 or 2 protein shakes a day. That being said, shakes really only make up about 20 percent of the pro's (that actually even use shakes) diet's. So drinking these good for nothing protein shakes wouldn't have too much of a detrimental effect on their growth. Believe it or not, half of Pros who endorse those shakes don't even use them at all. I think you're getting confused with the average "gym rat." Pro Body Builders are at a totally different caliber than even a well muscled gym rat at your local gym, and the difference is just that...their diet. Train as you may, but if you're not getting enough solid and correct nutrition you will only grow so much and be limited as to reaching your BBing goal.
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From my research over the past 8 years of following the sport, the majority of Pro BBers eat between 6-8 solid meals a day, and supplement only about 1 or 2 protein shakes a day. That being said, shakes really only make up about 20 percent of the pro's (that actually even use shakes) diet's. So drinking these good for nothing protein shakes wouldn't have too much of a detrimental effect on their growth. Believe it or not, half of Pros who endorse those shakes don't even use them at all. I think you're getting confused with the average "gym rat." Pro Body Builders are at a totally different caliber than even a well muscled gym rat at your local gym, and the difference is just that...their diet intake of enormous quantities of steroids, GH, Insulin and all the other crap that will kill them young. Train as you may, but if you're not getting enough solid and correct nutrition you will only grow so much and be limited as to reaching your BBing goal.
edited...
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Just read Franco columbu's "the bodybuilders nutrition book". He doesnt advocate protein powders at all!! Eat chicken and steak and fish!!
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Just read Franco columbu's "the bodybuilders nutrition book". He doesnt advocate protein powders at all!! Eat chicken and steak and fish!!
that was back when protein powder=powder milk...
bench
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Hey bench, I understand what you are saying. But isn't whey a powder made from milk??? I just saying that we won't wither and experience "shrinkage" if we don't use whey protein powders. Even babies have to come off formula or mothers milk eventually.
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Hey bench, I understand what you are saying. But isn't whey a powder made from milk??? I just saying that we won't wither and experience "shrinkage" if we don't use whey protein powders. Even babies have to come off formula or mothers milk eventually.
i used to think the same thing....until i replaced a lot of shakes with meals......i gladly went back to shakes...
bench
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bench, chew your meat a little better, i bet whey works better for you because its easier to digest.
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bench, chew your meat a little better, i bet whey works better for you because its easier to digest.
or i can just drink shakes.....and still have better results....
bench
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the source of your protein is not going to have any effect on the gains you experience from your workouts. protein is only a macronutrient, not a drug or training stimulus.
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the source of your protein is not going to have any effect on the gains you experience from your workouts. protein is only a macronutrient, not a drug or training stimulus.
i beg to differ....let say you take in more beef than chicken.....there is a difference there in protein/creatine and mineral sources.......and then there is fish that gives you all kind of insulin differences....differenc e in protein?..no....difference in protein source?...big time...
bench
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very small differences. if two diets have equal calories, and equal macro's then the results will be identical, regardless of the source of those macros and calories.
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very small differences. if two diets have equal calories, and equal macro's then the results will be identical, regardless of the source of those macros and calories.
Would you argue the same case for soy vs. beef (or whey)?
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You can debate all day long over shakes vs food. The deal with shakes, at least for me, is that they are convenient. If I dont feel like eating that much food the shake provides a way to get some extra protein without having to eat. Not to mention, at work I dont necessarily have time to eat multiple times so bringing a shake allows me to get some extra protein during my shifts that I otherwise would not get.
Bottom line, if you have time in the day to actually eat five or six full meals than go for it. If youre busy then implementing a protein shake into your routine is a good idea.
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Would you argue the same case for soy vs. beef (or whey)?
well i think in a natural bodybuilder there may be a small difference in hormone levels between an all beef vs. all soy diet... but as long as total calories and macros were equal then the results will be nearly identical. (assuming equal genetics and equal training stimuli).
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Lets put this in perspective. It is all about money. Nothing else but money!!! Look at all the different people selling whey protein now. Is our self esteem that low that we shell out big dollars so we can get a few more grams of protein in hopes "someday" being " mr. whatever" ?? I have been lifting since the seventies and supplement companies come and go. Take a look at Bill Phillips in the "body of work" video. He has a beautiful home, private jet, lamborghini etc... You get my drift??? Unless you are a professional, save your $$$$ buy a home, take vacations. You still will be in better shape than most people and have hundreds if not thousands in more you pocket. If you train hard, eat right, the muscles will grow. If you must take supplements just try some type of vitamin pack. All I take is vit-c, multi. Still going strong at 51 years young!!!
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Back to the original post, it looks like this original 3 step plan by Gatorade has been somewhat of a failure.. GNC is already offering BOGO free on these products
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Back to the original post, it looks like this original 3 step plan by Gatorade has been somewhat of a failure.. GNC is already offering BOGO free on these products
if these drinks didn't have 100 grams of sugar and grams of protein I would have tried them. They really need to cut that sugar out to make it decent.
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You can debate all day long over shakes vs food. The deal with shakes, at least for me, is that they are convenient. If I dont feel like eating that much food the shake provides a way to get some extra protein without having to eat. Not to mention, at work I dont necessarily have time to eat multiple times so bringing a shake allows me to get some extra protein during my shifts that I otherwise would not get.
Bottom line, if you have time in the day to actually eat five or six full meals than go for it. If youre busy then implementing a protein shake into your routine is a good idea.
agreed
i can`t get 4 shakes with 40g of protein each in per day around 3 solid meals easily...
why carry tupperware when i can leave a 10lb jug of whey at work....
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agreed
i can`t get 4 shakes with 40g of protein each in per day around 3 solid meals easily...
why carry tupperware when i can leave a 10lb jug of whey at work....
or even a good RTD.....its just to convenient...
bench
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I'm guessing you have no idea how much protein you need and are giving in to the myth that vegetarians don't get enough. Hell, vegans get enough protein with a normal diet. If you're eating dairy and eggs, I don't know what you're worrying about.
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