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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Al Doggity on June 22, 2010, 08:31:23 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/business/22law.html?ref=education
One day next month every student at Loyola Law School Los Angeles will awake to a higher grade point average.
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Times Topic: Legal Profession
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Mark Graham for The New York Times
A Dallas law firm will be paid for employing Zachary Burd, who graduated from Southern Methodist University’s law school.
But it’s not because they are all working harder.
The school is retroactively inflating its grades, tacking on 0.333 to every grade recorded in the last few years. The goal is to make its students look more attractive in a competitive job market.
In the last two years, at least 10 law schools have deliberately changed their grading systems to make them more lenient. These include law schools like New York University and Georgetown, as well as Golden Gate University and Tulane University, which just announced the change this month. Some recruiters at law firms keep track of these changes and consider them when interviewing, and some do not.
Law schools seem to view higher grades as one way to rescue their students from the tough economic climate — and perhaps more to the point, to protect their own reputations and rankings. Once able to practically guarantee gainful employment to thousands of students every year, the schools are now fielding complaints from more and more unemployed graduates, frequently drowning in student debt.
They have come up with a number of strategic responses. Besides the usual career counseling measures, many top schools have bumped up their on-campus interview weeks from the autumn to August, before the school year even starts, because they want their students to have a chance to nab a job slot before their counterparts at other schools do.
Others, like Duke and the University of Texas at Austin, offer stipends for students to take unpaid public interest internships. Southern Methodist University’s Dedman School of Law even recently began paying profit-making law firms to hire its students.
“For people like me who have good grades but are not in the super-elite, there are not as many options for getting a job in advance,” said Zachary Burd, 35, who just graduated from Southern Methodist University. A Dallas family law firm will receive $3,500 to “test drive” him this August.
“They’ll get me for a month or two, for free, to try me out,” he said. “It’s safer for them, and it’s a good foot in the door for me.”
But the tactic getting the most attention — and the most controversy — is the sudden, deliberate and dubiously effective grade inflation, which had begun even before the legal job market softened.
“If somebody’s paying $150,000 for a law school degree, you don’t want to call them a loser at the end,” says Stuart Rojstaczer, a former geophysics professor at Duke who now studies grade inflation. “So you artificially call every student a success.”
Unlike undergraduate grading, which has drifted northward over the years because most undergraduate campuses do not strictly regulate the schoolwide distribution of As and Bs, law schools have long employed clean, crisp, bell-shaped grading curves. Many law schools even use computers to mathematically determine cutoffs between a B+ and a B, based on exam points.
The process schools refer to as grade reform takes many forms. Some schools bump up everyone’s grades, some just allow for more As and others all but eliminate the once-gentlemanly C.
Harvard and Stanford, two of the top-ranked law schools, recently eliminated traditional grading altogether. Like Yale and the University of California, Berkeley, they now use a modified pass/fail system, reducing the pressure that law schools are notorious for. This new grading system also makes it harder for employers to distinguish the wheat from the chaff, which means more students can get a shot at a competitive interview.
Students and faculty say they are merely trying to stay competitive with their peer schools, which have more merciful grading curves. Loyola, for example, had a mean first-year grade of 2.667; the norm for other accredited California schools is generally a 3.0 or higher.
“That put our students at an unfair disadvantage, especially if you factor in the current economic environment,” says Samuel Liu, 26, president of the school’s Student Bar Association and the leader of the grading change efforts. He also says many Loyola students are ineligible for coveted clerkships that have strict G.P.A. cutoffs.
“We just wanted to match what other schools that are comparably ranked were already doing,” he said.
Nearby University of California, Los Angeles, made its grading curve more lenient in the fall of 2005, in part to keep up with “nationwide shifts in grading,” said Elizabeth Cheadle, the dean of students at U.C.L.A.’s law school.
The University of Southern California and the University of California Hastings College of the Law responded by increasing their own curves last school year.
What’s more, U.S.C.’s law school dean, Robert K. Rasmussen, said he was partly inspired by the school where he previously worked, Vanderbilt University Law School, which had also changed its curve a few years ago.
These moves can create a vicious cycle like that seen in chief executive pay: if every school in the bottom half of the distribution raises its marks to enter the top half of the distribution, or even just to become average, the average creeps up. This puts pressure on schools to keep raising their grades further.
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“If somebody’s paying $150,000 for a law school degree, you don’t want to call them a loser at the end,” says Stuart Rojstaczer, a former geophysics professor at Duke who now studies grade inflation. “So you artificially call every student a success.”
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Having gone through law school myself, I think this is ridiculous. Law school is not that hard to begin with. Its a lot of reading and studying. The most important thing is that you pass the bar exam and learn some basic skills to actually function as a lwayer in the real world.
IMHO the most pertinent issues are as follows:
1. Cost of education is insane.
2. Most students have insane expectations largely fed by the school faculty and admissions' office.
3. Most schools dont prepare students for actual general practice.
Most students are not going to White Shoe law firms after school and have to function in the real world like myself. I was unemployed for a year after school until getting a $10 an hour job, despite passing the NY bar the first time and scoring very high in school. My cousin vinny does not play too well in Stein, Goldberg, Hochberg, & rosenstein if you catch my drift.
So, I spent two years being thrown into the fire learning shit on my own before going out on my own.
Its rough and you either sink or swim. Most of these schools are not preparing these students to have the killer shark mentality and its only going to hurt the kids.
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“If somebody’s paying $150,000 for a law school degree, you don’t want to call them a loser at the end,” says Stuart Rojstaczer, a former geophysics professor at Duke who now studies grade inflation. “So you artificially call every student a success.”
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Having gone through law school myself, I think this is ridiculous. Law school is not that hard to begin with. Its a lot of reading and studying. The most important thing is that you pass the bar exam and learn some basic skills to actually function as a lwayer in the real world.
IMHO the most pertinent issues are as follows:
1. Cost of education is insane.
2. Most students have insane expectations largely fed by the school faculty and admissions' office.
3. Most schools dont prepare students for actual general practice.
Most students are not going to White Shoe law firms after school and have to function in the real world like myself. I was unemployed for a year after school until getting a $10 an hour job, despite passing the NY bar the first time and scoring very high in school. My cousin vinny does not play too well in Stein, Goldberg, Hochberg, & rosenstein if you catch my drift.
So, I spent two years being thrown into the fire learning shit on my own before going out on my own.
Its rough and you either sink or swim. Most of these schools are not preparing these students to have the killer shark mentality and its only going to hurt the kids.
So true.... Guilty as charged. :-X
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shit id be right under a 4.0, thats horse shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as long as we are making up grades i have a 9.8 GPA ::) ::) ::)
more and more school is becoming only part of what you need to get a job and honestly right now in this economy its not even the most important part...I think employers look at degrees as potential ability so if they stay with the company long enough the potential that this person will advance is higher than someone without a degree...
but right now I think companies are much more in favor of ppl with experience with a degree or without one as they dont want to take the time or money right now to train anyone. You need to be able to hit the ground running and make a difference immediately.
a sad fact for ppl coming out of college right now...
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Unfortunetly, padding gpa's like that only happens at the "really good" law schools and the ones that are so shitty, nobody would care or notice. If you attended a good law school that isn't Harvard or Yale, but that also isn't a third tier shitshow, chances are you didn't recieve the artificial benefit of the inflated curve.
One thing people do not realize, ( and that I now realize, as do several people I went to school with) is that a law degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on if you don't have one of the following- (1) Great connections or (2) Abnormally high grades that would propel you into lucrative internship positions while in school or (3) A lot of money [ either your own, or your parents] to pay off your loans or (4) You went to school and incurred very little debt as a result. I know a ton of people who graduated with solid gpa's, passed one or two bar exams and are now ( more than a year after graduating) interning for free, doing nothing, doing anything to make money whether law related or not, or are back in school for another degree until the economy picks up again. And while you request loan defferment after loan defferment and the interest continues to accumulate, more and more suckers are putting themselves in permanent debt to recieve an education that will more than likely land them a shitty entry level job doing something they hate.
What the admissions offices don't tell you is that there are way too many lawyers, way too many law students and very few good jobs availible once you graduate. Education is big business and 90% of schools do not provide any real help in assisting their graduates with permanent employment.
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As it seems like they're all doing it or going to be doing it, I'm not sure what the net effect will be. Pretty sad state of affairs though.
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GW - I went through it. Trust me, I know,
It was not easy. I literally walked the streets pounding on doors for work and hustled my ass off to the point I am now. Its rough out there.
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GW - I went through it. Trust me, I know,
It was not easy. I literally walked the streets pounding on doors for work and hustled my ass off to the point I am now. Its rough out there.
GW has said several times that he is currently underemployed. But hell, look at how many people they graduate every year. The field must be unbelievably packed, so even artificially raising grades may not help much - especially if everybody else follows suit.
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GW has said several times that he is currently underemployed. But hell, look at how many people they graduate every year. The field must be unbelievably packed, so even artificially raising grades may not help much - especially if everybody else follows suit.
The problem is that most kids come out of law school not prepared to be lawyers and function in a law office other than research, document nonsense, and crap that most clients don't want to pay for right now.
The other issue is that most small mid firms cant afford to pay a new kid out of law school 80k - 100k a year in a situation where the paralegal and legal sec knows more than the lawyer.
The other problem is that most kids are really not prepared to be hustlers and sharks. Yes, hustlers and sharks. Its a dog eat dog world and this profession you either get sharp teeth fast or get eaten.
IMHO - new lawyers need to learn how to handle a basic criminal defense case, real estate closing, and basic estate planning like wills, etc.
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Unfortunetly, padding gpa's like that only happens at the "really good" law schools and the ones that are so shitty, nobody would care or notice. If you attended a good law school that isn't Harvard or Yale, but that also isn't a third tier shitshow, chances are you didn't recieve the artificial benefit of the inflated curve.
One thing people do not realize, ( and that I now realize, as do several people I went to school with) is that a law degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on if you don't have one of the following- (1) Great connections or (2) Abnormally high grades that would propel you into lucrative internship positions while in school or (3) A lot of money [ either your own, or your parents] to pay off your loans or (4) You went to school and incurred very little debt as a result. I know a ton of people who graduated with solid gpa's, passed one or two bar exams and are now ( more than a year after graduating) interning for free, doing nothing, doing anything to make money whether law related or not, or are back in school for another degree until the economy picks up again. And while you request loan defferment after loan defferment and the interest continues to accumulate, more and more suckers are putting themselves in permanent debt to recieve an education that will more than likely land them a shitty entry level job doing something they hate.
What the admissions offices don't tell you is that there are way too many lawyers, way too many law students and very few good jobs availible once you graduate. Education is big business and 90% of schools do not provide any real help in assisting their graduates with permanent employment.
This is true. There are more students in law schools today than there are practicing attorneys in the profession. Law, especially the lucrative jobs, is saturated. And more law schools are opening every day. UC Irvine opened a law school not too long ago… and didn’t Drexel Univ. open a law school as well?
Every aspiring law school student thinks he is going to graduate and walk into an Associates position making $175k. Um no. But if students want to believe that is it the job of the Admissions Dean to dissuade them? ???
If you went to a first tier law school (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.) and graduated near the top of your class you will be fine… if not, well, good luck to you. 8)
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Look, I am a driven person and have no problem hustling and cracking heads in the streets, the court, etc. I have a rough personality and it works for debt collection and what I do. I have a good clientele thats increasing daily mostly through referalls, but it take a long time to get a rep. a LONG TIME!
However, if I were some impish little dork, ffuugggeeettaabboouuuttt iittt.
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What about combining a JD with an MBA a la Romney?
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What about combining a JD with an MBA a la Romney?
Great education! But get someone else to pay for it and go to wall street.
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Great education! But get someone else to pay for it and go to wall street.
Yeah, I was thinking of it more in terms of going to consulting or wall st. From what I've read, a lot of consulting firms like Bain and Co. and McKinsey love JD/MBAs.
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Yeah, I was thinking of it more in terms of going to consulting or wall st. From what I've read, a lot of consulting firms like Bain and Co. and McKinsey love JD/MBAs.
Look, the education of a JD/MBA is great, whether you want to be a lawyer or not. the thing with a JD, is you actually have a license to practice law and can do shit no one else can.
But the cost is very high for a joint degree. Your talking about 120k!
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Look, the education of a JD/MBA is great, whether you want to be a lawyer or not. the thing with a JD, is you actually have a license to practice law and can do shit no one else can.
But the cost is very high for a joint degree. Your talking about 120k!
Yeah, I know. I'm just a bystander here. Can't say I know a lot about that stuff.
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Yeah, I know. I'm just a bystander here. Can't say I know a lot about that stuff.
If I had to do everything again, I would have become a member of NYFD right out of college and gone to law school at night. They actually work it our for people do to that.
Then I would have built up my practice on the side so that after 20 on the FD, I could retire from that and still have the law practice.
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If I had to do everything again, I would have become a member of NYFD right out of college and gone to law school at night. They actually work it our for people do to that.
Then I would have built up my practice on the side so that after 20 on the FD, I could retire from that and still have the law practice.
That's what Tom Condon did while he was in the NFL. Got his law degree over a few years and started representing a few players and slowly built himself up into the most powerful sports agent in the NFL.
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What about combining a JD with an MBA a la Romney?
In general, I frown on these combined degrees: JD/MA, JD/MBA, JD/PhD, JD/MD, JD/MEM, JD/MPP, etc. There are people for whom they prove useful, but they are only about 15% of the law student population. These joint degrees are really for very motivated students who have a genuine intellectual interest in the other field—simply doing it to try to position yourself for a better job or make yourself more marketable is not the way to go about it. If your employer is paying for it, then by all means do it, but unless you are in this 15% group I would not recommend it. For most people, the "value added" simply is not there.
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Every aspiring law school student thinks he is going to graduate and walk into an Associates position making $175k. Um no. But if students want to believe that is it the job of the Admissions Dean to dissuade them? ???
Uh, YES. I would think it's generally the job of an educator to EDUCATE people.
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Uh, YES. I would think it's generally the job of an educator to EDUCATE people.
Most of these "educators" are clueless themselves.
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Most of these "educators" are clueless themselves.
At the high school level, I'm in total agreement. At college level, I would disagree. Greed may be blinding them, but I would think they would have a moral or ethical or professional responsibility. I realize they can't convince someone who just won't listen, but I think they should certainly make a strong effort to disabuse them of any ridiculous dreams they may be harboring.
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At the high school level, I'm in total agreement. At college level, I would disagree. Greed may be blinding them, but I would think they would have a moral or ethical or professional responsibility. I realize they can't convince someone who just won't listen, but I think they should certainly make a strong effort to disabuse them of any ridiculous dreams they may be harboring.
The only way law school can justify the enormous cost is to make all the students believe they will get the 1% of positions open in the white shoe firms where you are like a slave for a few years and hopefull get partnership in 8 years after a divorce, alcohol problem, and no life.
I don't regret law school and think its a great education, but they definately sell you a load a shit not connected to reality.
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The only way law school can justify the enormous cost is to make all the students believe they will get the 1% of positions open in the white shoe firms where you are like a slave for a few years and hopefull get partnership in 8 years after a divorce, alcohol problem, and no life.
I don't regret law school and think its a great education, but they definately sell you a load a shit not connected to reality.
;D
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;D
I tell it like it is whether people want to hear it or not.
The deluded leftists on this board don't like it because i am like that cold freezing bucket of ice water that wakes one from their drunken stupor.
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Uh, YES. I would think it's generally the job of an educator to EDUCATE people.
The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator. Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree. He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.
You are hopelessly naďve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students. ::)
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The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator. Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree. He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.
You are hopelessly naďve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students. ::)
True. They paraded all sorts of stats and figures as to what we would make after school. Despite my graduating with a 3.65 GPA and passing the NY bar in the top 5% of the class, I was working as a PT in Gold's Gym after graduation.
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True. They paraded all sorts of stats and figures as to what we would make after school. Despite my graduating with a 3.65 GPA and passing the NY bar in the top 5% of the class, I was working as a PT in Gold's Gym after graduation.
Again with the naďveté. They showed you figures of what you could make—not what you would make. It is like when a store advertises a sale with prices “as much as” 70% off. Is everything in the store really 70% off? No.
Apple’s iPad battery will last “as long as” 10 hours. Can you really expect it to last 10 hours with the brightness and volume turned all the way up while watching video or using the 3g wireless feature? No.
Remember, the silly supplement claims in the film “Bigger Faster Stronger?” That bodybuilding model (Christian Boeving?) said “you should be smarter than that” if you thought over the counter supplements was all he was taking.
This is the same thing.
If you just moved here from some foreign country, on behalf of law schools everywhere, I apologize for the bait and switch, but if you grew up in America… you really should know better. By the way, no degree from anywhere is a guarantee of anything. You still have to hustle, be street smart, be politically savvy, network & schmooze your way to success. I do not know where you went to law school (first tier, second tier, third tier, or fourth), but if you really ended up working as a PT in Gold’s Gym after graduation… take a hard look in the mirror. :-\
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yeah, guidance counselors are often shit - they want numbers, they don't always care about you personally. They'll let you waste time, entire semesters sometimes. I lost a lot of years of school because I took bad advice from college counselors.
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Again with the naďveté. They showed you figures of what you could make—not what you would make. It is like when a store advertises a sale with prices “as much as” 70% off. Is everything in the store really 70% off? No.
Apple’s iPad battery will last “as long as” 10 hours. Can you really expect it to last 10 hours with the brightness and volume turned all the way up while watching video or using the 3g wireless feature? No.
Remember, the silly supplement claims in the film “Bigger Faster Stronger?” That bodybuilding model (Christian Boeving?) said “you should be smarter than that” if you thought over the counter supplements was all he was taking.
This is the same thing.
If you just moved here from some foreign country, on behalf of law schools everywhere, I apologize for the bait and switch, but if you grew up in America… you really should know better. By the way, no degree from anywhere is a guarantee of anything. You still have to hustle, be street smart, be politically savvy, network & schmooze your way to success. I do not know where you went to law school (first tier, second tier, third tier, or fourth), but if you really ended up working as a PT in Gold’s Gym after graduation… take a hard look in the mirror. :-\
I tried getting those jobs at the white shoe law firms when I never realistically had a chance instead of small firms. I then worked for two years for crap pay at small firms until I was comfortable to go out on my own. That was 8 years ago.
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You tried but did you really try . . . in a way that exceeded the competition? Perhaps not. Did you work every summer at a firm or elsewhere? The students at my law school alternated 10-week rotations between classroom and working in a legal setting. They did not get summers off. This was required of all students; by the time they graduated every student had worked in four different (almost always) paid positions. They were well poised for employment when they graduated. In fact, most of them went to work for one of their previous 10-week employers.
It goes without saying that the plum jobs are for top graduates at first tier schools. If that is not you then, no, you never really had a chance. Similarly, those plum jobs are often reserved for people with connections (family, legacy, friend of X). Again, if that is not you, then you never really had a chance, but admission officers were not lying when they pointed to high starting salaries for new law students landing those plum jobs. The people who secured those jobs are doing well and there was a time, in the dot-com era for example, when such jobs were plentiful even for students at second tier schools.
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You tried but did you really try . . . in a way that exceeded the competition? Perhaps not. Did you work every summer at a firm or elsewhere? The students at my law school alternated 10-week rotations between classroom and working in a legal setting. They did not get summers off. This was required of all students; by the time they graduated every student had worked in four different (almost always) paid positions. They were well poised for employment when they graduated. In fact, most of them went to work for one of their previous 10-week employers.
It goes without saying that the plum jobs are for top graduates at first tier schools. If that is not you then, no, you never really had a chance. Similarly, those plum jobs are often reserved for people with connections (family, legacy, friend of X). Again, if that is not you, then you never really had a chance, but admission officers were not lying when they pointed to high starting salaries for new law students landing those plum jobs. The people who secured those jobs are doing well and there was a time, in the dot-com era for example, when such jobs were plentiful even for students at second tier schools.
No that was not me. I come from an ethnic working class blue collar family in the Bronx, NY where I was the first to go to college.
TBH though - I am happy doing what I'm doing. I like working for myself, I just wish I was told of reality beforehand.
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No that was not me. I come from an ethnic working class blue collar family in the Bronx, NY where I was the first to go to college.
TBH though - I am happy doing what I'm doing. I like working for myself, I just wish I was told of reality beforehand.
Many a muscle wannabe said the same thing after watching Bigger Faster Stronger. :-[
If you thought over the counter supplements was all Christian Boeving was taking, “you should be smarter than that.” :-\
I hear ya. For the longest time, I had no idea. There were signs, odds things.....my issue is with this whole shit industry as a whole. It's starts with the lying magazines, then it goes to the supplement companies, and then to the competitor's themselves. It's a huge bag of shit. Everyone within it, just winks their eye at each other, and pretend nothing is going on.
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Yeah, but becoming a professional athlete and a mildly successful attorney aren't remotely comparable goals. One is completely unrealistic unless you possess the god given ability and can dedicate the necessary time and effort. In addition, becoming a professional athlete is less about means and more about talent. You are not going to be given the chance to succeed unless you earned it or deserve it. MLB scouts aren't going to draft you just because your Uncle played for the team. Also, it's a 100% fulltime commitment that you have to undertake early in life. There aren't any NBA night schools and you can't work a day job and skip college, then get drafted to the NFL. Of course there are exceptions to what I said, but we are talking about 1% of the 1% that would be good enough to make it in the first place.
The other goal is a lot more realistic and attainable provided you have the apptitude and are willing to work hard. The oft repeated lie that is sold by corporations of higher education ( which is what they are) is that their school can somehow give you a leg up over other schools when you enter your chosen profession. But, if you don't make law review or you don't have connections, you either have to get lucky or simply throw your hat in the ring and see where it takes you. The only thing that is great about a law degree is that it is an extremely valuable asset to have if you intend on working for yourself and becoming a self made man. Also, if you have business experience, or some other degree or intend to get into politics, the financial sector or academia, it gives you a huge boost over other job candidates.
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The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator. Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree. He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.
You are hopelessly naďve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students. ::)
If they're not educators then I stand corrected, but I'll remain "hopelessly naive" in the idea that someday...maybe...the pangs of guilt will goad them into more ethical and professional behavior.
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If they're not educators then I stand corrected, but I'll remain "hopelessly naive" in the idea that someday...maybe...the pangs of guilt will goad them into more ethical and professional behavior.
I regret to say that you hopelessly out of touch. That I even had to correct your assumption that the admissions dean is an “educator” underscores my point. By the time you are applying to law school you should be much more savvy. Once again, if you grew up in another country then I owe you an apology but if you were raised in the States you have no excuse.
The sad truth is most young people want to be lawyers because it is an occupation they have seen featured in television and movies. Most prospective students know very little about the profession and are slow to learn that most lawyers do not regularly litigate cases or otherwise work in a courtroom. It is alternately amusing and sad to see how many students are so clueless about the profession and the path leading up to it.
Do not hold your breath waiting for those "pangs of guilt." ::)
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I shake people down and push paper all day. Court room work is a fraction of actual work.
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Life is fucking tough, and padding grades just softens these kids up even more. I'm sick of hearing shit echoing this "Everyone is a winner" mentality. That's why we're failing and not the leader in science and technology anymore. If you can't cut making the grades you need to succeed in school, then that's the harsh fucking reality of life, deal with it.
They do have a word for this and it's called socialism.
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I regret to say that you hopelessly out of touch. That I even had to correct your assumption that the admissions dean is an “educator” underscores my point. By the time you are applying to law school you should be much more savvy. Once again, if you grew up in another country then I owe you an apology but if you were raised in the States you have no excuse.
Whatever douchebag. I'm not a law school applicant, so why the fuck I should know that is beyond idiocy. And I've admitted my error about making an assumption about the Dean of Admissions.
Holding my breath in 3...2...1...
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I shake people down and push paper all day. Court room work is a fraction of actual work.
Did you have to get the degree for what you do, or could you do it without the degree?
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At my level yes since I am often resorting to lien foreclosre actions against properties when deadbeat owners refuse to pay and there are many laws to know whether its the real property laws, lien laws, trust fund laws etc.
Also, at my level, most of the deadbeats have lawyers themselves.
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At my level yes since I am often resorting to lien foreclosre actions against properties when deadbeat owners refuse to pay and there are many laws to know whether its the real property laws, lien laws, trust fund laws etc.
Also, at my level, most of the deadbeats have lawyers themselves.
Do you just work cases over a certain dollar amount?
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Do you just work cases over a certain dollar amount?
Depends on the client. Long time clients I will take almost anything they send to me, but new ones I wont unless there is significant volume or they agree to a higher % of the claims are under 5k or over a year old.
Most of my cases now are between 15k - 100k, with many below 15k, and a few above.