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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: tonymctones on July 12, 2010, 08:59:22 PM
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For loco, jag and straw and any other person who thinks that eliminating the employers of illegals is going to solve the illegal immigration problem...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601491.html
"The study seemed to explode widely held beliefs that Mexicans risk deadly trips across the Rio Grande and through broiling Arizona and New Mexico deserts solely to find work."
Robert Suro Pew Center Director
"There's one very clear finding and that's that unemployment per se is not a very large factor in determining whether people migrate or not," Suro said. "This is not a flow of people without jobs. Unemployment is not pushing people out. . . . "
again a multiple pronged approach is whats needed including a way to tell if someone is in this country illegally BEFORE THEY BREAK THE LAW...
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Why aren't illegals who do get picked up being deported?
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They are attracted for benes, drivers licenses, leeching off the system, dropping anchor bombs, etc.
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Why aren't illegals who do get picked up being deported?
good question another one is why only 3.6%(which is a conservative estimate) of illegals in this country are deported
my guess is a screwed up system...non enforcement by authorities...
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Local LE around here picks them up if they do something illegal (well, something ELSE that is), holds them for a couple days and releases them on OR. They almost always disappear.. probably go get new docs and continue on about their business. The local courts and jails don't have to deal with them, and the government doesn't have to pay to deport them back. Therefore, more funds can be spent on pubic union costs.
It's all about the $$$.
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well hell no, they want to exploit all the free shit they can and contribute nothing, then when the handouts stop they want to cry racism and say that they are denied the american dream
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good question another one is why only 3.6%(which is a conservative estimate) of illegals in this country are deported
my guess is a screwed up system...non enforcement by authorities...
A friend of mine who is a cop in the town I grew-up in said that when it started becoming a problem there, probably mid-90's, they were hell bent to arrest them all, but when they reported it to the immigration authorities, they did absolutly nothing about it. He said now, they just lock them up for a few days....sad really.
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A friend of mine who is a cop in the town I grew-up in said that when it started becoming a problem there, probably mid-90's, they were hell bent to arrest them all, but when they reported it to the immigration authorities, they did absolutly nothing about it. He said now, they just lock them up for a few days....sad really.
I agree
I take it by your silence that do think that 3.6% is a satisfactory number? (you know Im not going to let this go so either admit you made and ignorant statement or that you believe its satisfactory)
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Like most Western countries, they came here to suck the benefit system dry.
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Like most Western countries, they came here to suck the benefit system dry.
Illegals are like the invaders in War of the Worlds with Tom cruise.
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I agree
I take it by your silence that do think that 3.6% is a satisfactory number? (you know Im not going to let this go so either admit you made and ignorant statement or that you believe its satisfactory)
I assume that 2nd part wasn't directed at me?
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I assume that 2nd part wasn't directed at me?
LOL no no no I apologize ;D netbook isnt the best for my crappy eyes :-\
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LOL no no no I apologize ;D netbook isnt the best for my crappy eyes :-\
haha... ;D
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For loco, jag and straw and any other person who thinks that eliminating the employers of illegals is going to solve the illegal immigration problem...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601491.html
"The study seemed to explode widely held beliefs that Mexicans risk deadly trips across the Rio Grande and through broiling Arizona and New Mexico deserts solely to find work."
Robert Suro Pew Center Director
"There's one very clear finding and that's that unemployment per se is not a very large factor in determining whether people migrate or not," Suro said. "This is not a flow of people without jobs. Unemployment is not pushing people out. . . . "
again a multiple pronged approach is whats needed including a way to tell if someone is in this country illegally BEFORE THEY BREAK THE LAW...
LOL
tonymctones,
Did you even read the article? The title is misleading. It says that illegal immigrants do cross over to the US for jobs, jobs with higher salaries and better working conditions. The article says they also want to rejoin family members who are already in the US working. Bottom line, stop hiring them and they'll have no reason to go to the US, and they'll have no family in the US to go to.
Study: Illegal Immigrants Not Drawn by Jobs
By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 7, 2005
A majority of Mexican nationals who crossed into the United States illegally in the past two years left behind paying jobs that, in some cases, are similar to the agriculture, construction and manufacturing work they find north of the border, according to a study of Mexican immigrants released yesterday by the Pew Hispanic Center.
The study seemed to explode widely held beliefs that Mexicans risk deadly trips across the Rio Grande and through broiling Arizona and New Mexico deserts solely to find work. But the Pew Center's director, Roberto Suro, said he could not say that definitively.
"There's one very clear finding and that's that unemployment per se is not a very large factor in determining whether people migrate or not," Suro said. "This is not a flow of people without jobs. Unemployment is not pushing people out. . . . "
More often, he said, the decision to migrate involve a variety of reasons, such "improvement of earnings" in Mexico, even though immigrants earn very low wages in the United States.
The study's author, Rakesh Kochhar, associate director of research for the center, said that, based on estimates, undocumented Mexican immigrants earn about twice as much in construction, manufacturing and hospitality jobs as they did working south of the border.
Other factors that contributed to Mexican migration include rejoining families and improved working conditions, Suro and Kochhar said.
The Pew Center study comes as Congress prepares to debate a number of immigration bills meant to check what appears at times to be an unimpeded flow of illegal border crossings. President Bush urged Congress to create a temporary guest worker program for immigrants, but many lawmakers are reluctant to do so without asking immigrants already in the country illegally to return home immediately or slowly over time.
The study, "The Economic Transition to America," is part of a series of reports culled from a survey of more than 4,000 Mexican nationals at consulate offices in Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas and Fresno, Calif., between July 2004 and January 2005.
Thirty-two percent of men questioned said they worked in agriculture in Mexico, followed by 15 percent who were employed by manufacturers and 13 percent in commerce and sales. Women -- 19 percent -- mostly worked in commerce and sales, followed by manufacturing and domestic service.
After arriving in the United States, 82 percent of the illegal immigrants lived with relatives. "The strong family ties, and the social network they comprise, are clearly important to the economic assimilation of respondents," the study stated.
Unemployment is a fact of life in the transition from Mexico. A high percentage, 38, said they were unemployed for at least a month in the previous year. Women in particular, 48 percent, had trouble finding work, and 40 percent of people without a high-school education were jobless for a significant period.
Forty-five percent eventually found jobs by "talking with people" in the United States, the study said. Others visited job sites, talked to people in Mexico or consulted want ads in U.S. newspapers.
About half of illegal immigrants entered the same industries that employ most workers in Mexico. An additional 17 percent took jobs in the hospitality industry, according to the study.
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LOL yes loco I did and I actually acknowledged that aspect in another thread...
point is that eliminating employers that hire illegals(which is impossible) will not stop illegals from coming to the US...Like many including yourself like to tout and believe
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well hell no, they want to exploit all the free shit they can and contribute nothing, then when the handouts stop they want to cry racism and say that they are denied the american dream
Pure bullshit. Mexican workers bust their ass and never complain.(my experience)
American workers are LAZY and look for handouts.
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LOL yes loco I did and I actually acknowledged that aspect in another thread...
point is that eliminating employers that hire illegals(which is impossible) will not stop illegals from coming to the US...Like many including yourself like to tout and believe
Then why do you create this thread, addressed to me, and post this article when the article actually does not support your argument, but in fact does the opposite?
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I thought the title was going to be misleading of bullsh*t. The truth is they come here for a better life. That better life may include more government help for sure, i don't think you could argue that government help and assistance aren't part and parcel of it. But i would contend that the main key to that better life is job opportunities. Welfare is still poverty and they came to escape poverty. There is no reason to escape poverty only to go back into poverty. You come to have a better life and welfare no matter the state, doesn't offer you that.
You have to work for it and that's what they do, that's why you see them on the corner before sunrise and why they work as hard as they do.
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Then why do you create this thread, addressed to me, and post this article when the article actually does not support your argument, but in fact does the opposite?
LOL actually it does support my argument...
my argument is that eliminating employers that hire illegals(which AGAIN is impossible) is not going to get rid of illegals....
this article cites reasons other than jobs that illegals come over... ;)
here is another question for you loco, do you think that deporting 3.6%(which is a conservative number) of illegal immigrants a year is satisfactory?
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I thought the title was going to be misleading of bullsh*t. The truth is they come here for a better life. That better life may include more government help for sure, i don't think you could argue that government help and assistance aren't part and parcel of it. But i would contend that the main key to that better life is job opportunities. Welfare is still poverty and they came to escape poverty. There is no reason to escape poverty only to go back into poverty. You come to have a better life and welfare no matter the state, doesn't offer you that.
You have to work for it and that's what they do, that's why you see them on the corner before sunrise and why they work as hard as they do.
LOL i took the title directly from the title of the article so dont shoot the messenger...
Thats exactly right they come here for a better life which includes many things other than a job, which is exactly my point...eliminating employers of illegals(which isnt possible) will not stop them from coming over...
and lol if you think poverty here in the US is the same as poverty in mexico... ::)
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LOL i took the title directly from the title of the article so dont shoot the messenger...
Thats exactly right they come here for a better life which includes many things other than a job, which is exactly my point...eliminating employers of illegals(which isnt possible) will not stop them from coming over...
and lol if you think poverty here in the US is the same as poverty in mexico... ::)
Did i say poverty was the same? Come on now don't get foolish here. No one risks their life to be in US poverty no matter if it is better than mexican poverty. Human's don't work or think that way. Oh wow i'm totally going to risk my life so i can live around cockroaches with no chance of ever getting out ::) I'm not saying they don't live in poverty here, just that given the choice they would choose not to because poverty in the US is not the 'better life' they came here for.
Your title is misleading because it claims outright that they are not drawn by jobs, it then refutes this by saying they are drawn by jobs but also but 'other things' like benefits. Well if they aren't drawn by jobs at all then the title has merit. If they are in anyway drawn by the potential for work then the title is misleading.
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Did i say poverty was the same? Come on now don't get foolish here. No one risks their life to be in US poverty no matter if it is better than mexican poverty. Human's don't work or think that way. Oh wow i'm totally going to risk my life so i can live around cockroaches with no chance of ever getting out ::) I'm not saying they don't live in poverty here, just that given the choice they would choose not to because poverty in the US is not the 'better life' they came here for.
Your title is misleading because it claims outright that they are not drawn by jobs, it then refutes this by saying they are drawn by jobs but also but 'other things' like benefits. Well if they aren't drawn by jobs at all then the title has merit. If they are in anyway drawn by the potential for work then the title is misleading.
LOL bro the problem you have is you think that your idea of poverty is the same as an illegal immigrants idea of poverty but its not...poverty here in the US is not poverty in Mexico its middle class...
to many immigrants our idea of poverty is a big step up to them...
AGAIN i didnt make up the title I simply used the title from the article so if you have a problem contact the author... ;)
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Yeah they come here to live in 'middle class' poverty ::)
You are complicit when you post the title as YOUR title. This is YOUR thread not the washington posts. By posting that title as also YOUR title YOU are arguing that it is correct and true. It is in fact not and you hide behind 'i didn't write it' theory. Oh really so the Washington post logged in under your handle and started a thread with that title?
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LOL actually it does support my argument...
my argument is that eliminating employers that hire illegals(which AGAIN is impossible) is not going to get rid of illegals....
this article cites reasons other than jobs that illegals come over... ;)
here is another question for you loco, do you think that deporting 3.6%(which is a conservative number) of illegal immigrants a year is satisfactory?
Cut the BS already. The article you posted does not support your argument or the title. It actually does the opposite. It clearly states that the reason illegal immigrants go to the US is for:
"improvement of earnings"
"improved working conditions"
"rejoining families"
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LOL yes loco I did and I actually acknowledged that aspect in another thread...
point is that eliminating employers that hire illegals(which is impossible) will not stop illegals from coming to the US...Like many including yourself like to tout and believe
A $10k fine per illegal WILL stop a shitload of companies form hiring illegals.
And as you know, illegals leave when there is no work.
I don't follow your logic here, but hey, we can agree to disagree
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Yeah they come here to live in 'middle class' poverty ::)
You are complicit when you post the title as YOUR title. This is YOUR thread not the washington posts. By posting that title as also YOUR title YOU are arguing that it is correct and true. It is in fact not and you hide behind 'i didn't write it' theory. Oh really so the Washington post logged in under your handle and started a thread with that title?
LOL again poverty to us is middle class to them...
the average annual household income for mexico is about $7000
the average annual benefits from welfare is about $7000 and goes up with kids...
so for someone who lives in poverty in mexico to come here and live in poverty its a BIG IMPROVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cut the BS already. The article you posted does not support your argument or the title. It actually does the opposite. It clearly states that the reason illegal immigrants go to the US is for:
"improvement of earnings"
"improved working conditions"
"rejoining families"
LOL you guys need to get off the title I didnt make that shit up it was the title of the article...get over it
again eliminating employers of illegals wont eliminate illegals it also says that there are other reasons for them to come over...
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A $10k fine per illegal WILL stop a shitload of companies form hiring illegals.
And as you know, illegals leave when there is no work.
I don't follow your logic here, but hey, we can agree to disagree
LOL what about those that dont come here to work 240?
you wont stop all companies from hiring illegals...
another scenario...many illegals dont work for the company but are independent contractors contracted by the company...so they technically arent hiring illegals they are hiring a company that uses illegals...
are you going to prosecute one company for another companies employment practices?
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LOL you guys need to get off the title I didnt make that shit up it was the title of the article...get over it
again eliminating employers of illegals wont eliminate illegals it also says that there are other reasons for them to come over...
The article you posted does not support your argument. It actually does the opposite. It clearly states that the reason illegal immigrants go to the US is for:
"improvement of earnings"
"improved working conditions"
"rejoining families"
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LOL what about those that dont come here to work 240?
you wont stop all companies from hiring illegals...
another scenario...many illegals dont work for the company but are independent contractors contracted by the company...so they technically arent hiring illegals they are hiring a company that uses illegals...
are you going to prosecute one company for another companies employment practices?
I didn't say cutting jobs would send 100% of them home.
But we do konw (from DHS stats) that 7% of them left last year voluntarily because there were no jobs for them.
And that's with the current lax ICE employer enforcement. You do that aggressively for a few years, and I bet a lot more than 7% leave.
And that "company hiring a company".... Um, ICE can audit temp agencies too dude ;)
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I didn't say cutting jobs would send 100% of them home.
But we do konw (from DHS stats) that 7% of them left last year voluntarily because there were no jobs for them.
And that's with the current lax ICE employer enforcement. You do that aggressively for a few years, and I bet a lot more than 7% leave.
And that "company hiring a company".... Um, ICE can audit temp agencies too dude ;)
LOL it was 4% yesterday is it going to be 10% tomorrow? ::) ::) ::)
they arent temp agencies bro they are independent contractors...they dont go through agencies...
so again are you going to prosecute companies for other companies employee practices?
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LOL it was 4% yesterday is it going to be 10% tomorrow? ::) ::) ::)
they arent temp agencies bro they are independent contractors...they dont go through agencies...
so again are you going to prosecute companies for other companies employee practices?
So independent contractors are not privy to ICE audits?
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The article you posted does not support your argument. It actually does the opposite. It clearly states that the reason illegal immigrants go to the US is for:
"improvement of earnings"
"improved working conditions"
"rejoining families"
LOL bro if they came here simply for jobs they would have stayed in mexico b/c they had jobs...they came here for a impovement in life which includes many other things other than a job...
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So independent contractors are not privy to ICE audits?
LOL how do you tell which one is illegal?
I know you dont want one american citizen to be inconvienced after I know your stance on giving up liberty to gain safety... ;)
LOL bro this really shows that youre so uninformed on this subject...
if I hire you as a independent contractor I can pay you in check or cash what have you and all I have to do is give you a 1099 misc at the end of the year...I dont have to make sure you report your earnings to the irs, as long as i record my payments to you im clear...you can go cash that check at just about any local gas station and not report anything...how are you going to find these ppl?
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LOL bro if they came here simply for jobs they would have stayed in mexico b/c they had jobs...they came here for a impovement in life which includes many other things other than a job...
But the article you posted said the reason for them going to the US is jobs, jobs with higher wages and better working conditions. It says in the US they make double what they make in Mexico, plus they get better working conditions.
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LOL how do you tell which one is illegal?
I know you dont want one american citizen to be inconvienced after I know your stance on giving up liberty to gain safety... ;)
LOL bro this really shows that youre so uninformed on this subject...
if I hire you as a independent contractor I can pay you in check or cash what have you and all I have to do is give you a 1099 misc at the end of the year...I dont have to make sure you report your earnings to the irs, as long as i record my payments to you im clear...you can go cash that check at just about any local gas station and not report anything...how are you going to find these ppl?
bump for an answer...