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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: coltrane on July 20, 2010, 07:02:50 AM

Title: Diet opinions please
Post by: coltrane on July 20, 2010, 07:02:50 AM
Trying to do the old lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible thing.

My questions for you guys... should i:

1)  just decrease calories without adding cardio    or
2)  keep calories the same while adding cardio.

thoughts?   I know this is a very general question...
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: JimmyJam1974 on July 20, 2010, 07:05:23 AM
Wavelength - you wanna take this?
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: coltrane on July 20, 2010, 07:10:25 AM
And please guys, no bs responses.   
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Meso_z on July 20, 2010, 07:52:28 AM
Trying to do the old lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible thing.

My questions for you guys... should i:

1)  just decrease calories without adding cardio    or
2)  keep calories the same while adding cardio.

thoughts?   I know this is a very general question...

I prefer the 1st one. with a little cardio here and there..
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: coltrane on July 20, 2010, 07:55:55 AM
I prefer the 1st one. with a little cardio here and there..

Ive been told doing cardio will decrease musculature.

I'm natty too
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: ManBearPig... on July 20, 2010, 07:57:48 AM
Ive been told doing cardio will decrease musculature.

I'm natty too

it won't "decrease musculature" any more than dieting will.  whoever claims that is just a fat shit who did cardio for a week, lost 30 lbs of water weight , and thinks he got "too skinny , fuck that"
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: coltrane on July 20, 2010, 08:01:26 AM
it won't "decrease musculature" any more than dieting will.  whoever claims that is just a fat shit who did cardio for a week, lost 30 lbs of water weight , and thinks he got "too skinny , fuck that"

I see.

I've been told that doing cardio will tap into muscle tissue faster than dieting alone will.   
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 20, 2010, 08:08:23 AM
I like to combine the two. I can run my butt off but if I am not watching my carb intake it's all for naught. When I reduce my simple carbs and do High Intensity Interval Training for about 20 to 25 min a session I get pretty good results and as long as I maintain my protein intake I don't believe I lose much muscle mass.  
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Tapeworm on July 20, 2010, 08:51:27 AM
Cal reduction by making good food choices instead of eating smaller portions.  Everyone should be doing cardio a couple times a week no matter what.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: lvtolft on July 20, 2010, 08:58:22 AM
it won't "decrease musculature" any more than dieting will.  whoever claims that is just a fat shit who did cardio for a week, lost 30 lbs of water weight , and thinks he got "too skinny , fuck that"
Agreed.  I have been able to keep more muscle and lower my bodyfat by increasing carding and maintaining my caloric intake.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: wavelength on July 29, 2010, 02:36:38 PM
Wavelength - you wanna take this?

;D

Answer is: whatever is more convenient.
Results will be the same.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Master Blaster on July 29, 2010, 02:39:37 PM
Trying to do the old lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible thing.

My questions for you guys... should i:

1)  just decrease calories without adding cardio    or
2)  keep calories the same while adding cardio.

thoughts?   I know this is a very general question...

T3 and Clen plus HGH and ephedrine stack


g15 approved
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: JasonH on July 29, 2010, 02:54:08 PM
I would go with the "do cardio" option.

I tried a cutting program a few years back and did no cardio but just reduced my carb intake whilst keeping protein the same (and sometimes slightly increased) - I lost a lot of muscle mass over an eight week period and looked flat as hell. I ended up calling it quits as it wasn't working for me.

Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: DK II on July 29, 2010, 07:16:05 PM
Trying to do the old lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible thing.

My questions for you guys... should i:

1)  just decrease calories without adding cardio    or
2)  keep calories the same while adding cardio.

thoughts?   I know this is a very general question...

How about decreasing calories AND doing cardio?

Do HIIT-style cardio, like sprint progressions or Tabata, you'll lose the fat in no time.

Fuck this "i starve myself to death with only one junk food meal per day and some protein shakes".

Get a decent diet with healthy fatty acids, lean protein, fibers and moderate carbs around training sessions and then get your lazy ass to do some cardio. There must be a reason why you got fat in the first place.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: tbombz on July 29, 2010, 07:38:35 PM
cardio wont make you lose muscle. clean up your diet, only eat carb when you need to (different for every person, but probably morning, pre workout, post workout only) , keep fats low, eat 1gram protein per pound lean weight, and lots of vegetables. cardio if you wanna speed things up.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: DK II on July 30, 2010, 04:39:41 AM
cardio wont make you lose muscle. clean up your diet, only eat carb when you need to (different for every person, but probably morning, pre workout, post workout only) , keep fats low, eat 1gram protein per pound lean weight, and lots of vegetables. cardio if you wanna speed things up.

Cardio won't make you lose muscle??

That's the stupidest thing i have read in a while. Maybe not if you're on 2g of testosterone, but please tell me, how many muscular marathon runners, triathlets and cyclists do you know??

Cardio makes you lose a lot of muscle, that why you're better off with short high intensity intervall cardion sessions than doing 30mins, or hour-long cardio sessions.

Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: PJim on July 30, 2010, 04:59:47 AM
You're better off keeping your calories lower, reducing your training frequency, as your recovery will be hindered as calories and nutrients are reduced and start if you haven't already on a creatine supplement.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: CalvinH on July 30, 2010, 06:06:43 AM
Test
Tren
EQ
Clen
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: wavelength on July 30, 2010, 07:24:58 AM
Cardio won't make you lose muscle??

That's the stupidest thing i have read in a while. Maybe not if you're on 2g of testosterone, but please tell me, how many muscular marathon runners, triathlets and cyclists do you know??

Cardio makes you lose a lot of muscle, that why you're better off with short high intensity intervall cardion sessions than doing 30mins, or hour-long cardio sessions.

Tbombz is right. Cardio will only make you lose muscle if it inteferes with your strength training or you create a rate of weight loss too high for optimal body composition (same as if you don't eat enough).

Marathon runners are not muscular because they choose not to. It would not be optimal for their performance. If a marathon runner adds enough protein/calories and strength training, he will get muscular.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: The Showstoppa on July 30, 2010, 07:29:38 AM
Tbombz is right. Cardio will only make you lose muscle if it inteferes with your strength training or you create a rate of weight loss too high for optimal body composition (same as if you don't eat enough).
Marathon runners are not muscular because they choose not to. It would not be optimal for their performance. If a marathon runner adds enough protein/calories and strength training, he will get muscular.

i think this is a huge part of it.  But isn't it also true that when the body goes into a "survival mode" such as serious dieting, it's easier for it to convert muscle to energy than it is to convert bodyfat?  I've always read that.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: dave19 on July 30, 2010, 07:33:19 AM
A bit of both.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: JP_RC on July 30, 2010, 09:50:46 AM
Trying to do the old lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible thing.

My questions for you guys... should i:

1)  just decrease calories without adding cardio    or
2)  keep calories the same while adding cardio.

thoughts?   I know this is a very general question...

Whatever you prefer, results will be almost the same, you'll have a caloric deficit.


Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: tbombz on July 30, 2010, 08:44:48 PM
Cardio won't make you lose muscle??

That's the stupidest thing i have read in a while. Maybe not if you're on 2g of testosterone, but please tell me, how many muscular marathon runners, triathlets and cyclists do you know??

Cardio makes you lose a lot of muscle, that why you're better off with short high intensity intervall cardion sessions than doing 30mins, or hour-long cardio sessions.


how many marathon runners and cyclist lift heavy weights consistantly and eat 1g protein per lb lean body weight everyday? and do it for years? and even if they did do that, as a natural, they still wouldnt be huge. alot of mrathon runners are actually very fit and muscular, just not very big compared to dedicated bodybuilders.

cardio wont make anyone loose muscle.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Coach is Back! on July 30, 2010, 09:00:39 PM
Tbombz is right. Cardio will only make you lose muscle if it inteferes with your strength training or you create a rate of weight loss too high for optimal body composition (same as if you don't eat enough).

Marathon runners are not muscular because they choose not to. It would not be optimal for their performance. If a marathon runner adds enough protein/calories and strength training, he will get muscular.

LOL...no he's not right, lol. marathon runners, especially experienced one's take in probably twice as many calories as we do. I have a tri-athlete I just got done training for a triathlon this weekend up in Sonoma and I've had him on as many as 6500 and he dropped but quick. And yes, we did strength training as well. 
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: DK II on August 01, 2010, 07:18:38 AM
LOL...no he's not right, lol. marathon runners, especially experienced one's take in probably twice as many calories as we do. I have a tri-athlete I just got done training for a triathlon this weekend up in Sonoma and I've had him on as many as 6500 and he dropped but quick. And yes, we did strength training as well. 

Badaboom, Badaboom...

Are you saying that Tbombz and WL are talking out of their asses?

See, i thought so.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: tbombz on August 01, 2010, 08:20:47 PM
LOL...no he's not right, lol. marathon runners, especially experienced one's take in probably twice as many calories as we do. I have a tri-athlete I just got done training for a triathlon this weekend up in Sonoma and I've had him on as many as 6500 and he dropped but quick. And yes, we did strength training as well. 
thats an issue of calorie output exceeding calorie input. cardio doesnt necessarily have to cause that. and it definitely doesnt have to be intense marathon-runner cardio.  cardio itself isnt going to cause weight loss, let alone musle loss. whether it causes weight loss to happen is an issue of calories in vs. calories out.. whether it causes muscle loss would be mostly dependant on protein intake except for cases of excessive endurance cardio.. although the legs can probably take a lot more cardio than the upper body
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: War-Horse on August 01, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
Keep calories at maintenence level, do no cardio.  Add green beans or broccoli to 3 of 6 meals (1cup)   2 meals are a whey isolate drink with mct or fish cpsules.   Eat only complex carbs. ( Steel cut oats, beans r my choice) I may trade out for brown rice after a week or so.   Boiled chicken, tuna, and whey drink are your protien.

After 6 weeks you can add 20 min of cardio if needed.....may not need it tho.   This will keep muscle full while leaning you out quickly.......its working well for me!

Again you need to only add things as time goes by!!    If you started full blast with cardio and hard diet then you have no where to go if things stop.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: wavelength on August 02, 2010, 05:13:09 AM
Badaboom, Badaboom...

Are you saying that Tbombz and WL are talking out of their asses?

See, i thought so.

LOL
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: DK II on August 02, 2010, 05:16:33 AM
LOL
;D ;D
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: MORTALCOIL on August 02, 2010, 05:24:17 AM
thats an issue of calorie output exceeding calorie input. cardio doesnt necessarily have to cause that. and it definitely doesnt have to be intense marathon-runner cardio.  cardio itself isnt going to cause weight loss, let alone musle loss. whether it causes weight loss to happen is an issue of calories in vs. calories out.. whether it causes muscle loss would be mostly dependant on protein intake except for cases of excessive endurance cardio.. although the legs can probably take a lot more cardio than the upper body

If one follows that idea, the intensity of your cardio has absolutely no effect on muscle loss, right? So energy systems have no impact whatsoever? Beg to differ. A DK said, unless you're juiced up as to maintain muscle mass, you will lose muscle mass when producing long and intense cardio efforts. Marathon runners don't look the way they do because they don't do strength training or don't eat enought protein, their bodies adapt to the effort.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Coach is Back! on August 02, 2010, 07:45:33 AM
No DK, not in so many words.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: BIG ACH on August 02, 2010, 08:06:42 AM

Both? LOL

When I get ready for a show, I gradually decrease calories (Usually by decreasing carbs), and gradually increase cardio!


This debate has been going on forever, and I have yet to find a clear answer....

The book Sliced by Bill Reynolds and Negrita Jayde discusses the importance of focusing on keeping calories as high as you can and increasing cardio.  But my old prep coach, Sean Sullivan (IFPA Natural Pro) would preach the opposite emphasizing the importance of keeping cardio as low as you possibly can and tinkering with the reduction of calories.

Personally, I would rather eat less and do less cardio, than eat more and do more cardio!   But when prepping for a show, it never goes how you want it hahaah  I always end up eating less and doing more cardio LOL

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: Voice of Doom on August 02, 2010, 09:29:27 AM
Cardio should be a part of your training regime regardless of your goals.  Being able to run if you have is important for the species.
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: coltrane on August 02, 2010, 11:34:09 AM
Both? LOL

When I get ready for a show, I gradually decrease calories (Usually by decreasing carbs), and gradually increase cardio!


This debate has been going on forever, and I have yet to find a clear answer....

The book Sliced by Bill Reynolds and Negrita Jayde discusses the importance of focusing on keeping calories as high as you can and increasing cardio.  But my old prep coach, Sean Sullivan (IFPA Natural Pro) would preach the opposite emphasizing the importance of keeping cardio as low as you possibly can and tinkering with the reduction of calories.

Personally, I would rather eat less and do less cardio, than eat more and do more cardio!   But when prepping for a show, it never goes how you want it hahaah  I always end up eating less and doing more cardio LOL

Good Luck!

Thanks for this response.  I personally think it is wiser to keep cals higher and increase cardio.  Would seem to me that this would faciliate fat loss while holding onto muscle at the same time. 
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: tbombz on August 02, 2010, 11:46:21 AM
If one follows that idea, the intensity of your cardio has absolutely no effect on muscle loss, right? So energy systems have no impact whatsoever? Beg to differ. A DK said, unless you're juiced up as to maintain muscle mass, you will lose muscle mass when producing long and intense cardio efforts. Marathon runners don't look the way they do because they don't do strength training or don't eat enought protein, their bodies adapt to the effort.
you shoudl re-read my post that you replied to. i talked about extreme endurance cardio. I agree that excessive cardio has the ability to slo down muscle growth, and could even possible cause muscle loss. but cardio will only have that effect if its consistant and extreme in relation to the persons level of conditioning. i do remember reading articles in md about the anti-hypertophy effects of endurance exercise. in the real world, especially because most endurance exercise is done mainly with the legs and the legs respond well to high reps and endurance training, most people dont experience any muscle loss, or any slow-down in growth either. now, if we are talking about kai green, or any extremely well developed bb'er, then yes cardio can definitely limit growth and cause muscle loss. but thats a very diffferent story from the average joe, even the average joe bb'er on juice. 
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: io856 on August 02, 2010, 11:51:18 AM
kai greene does his cardio pretty intense looking at those prep vids
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: tbombz on August 02, 2010, 11:54:20 AM
kai greene does his cardio pretty intense looking at those prep vids
;D good point
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: BIG ACH on August 02, 2010, 12:10:19 PM
kai greene does his cardio pretty intense looking at those prep vids

Well, Grapefruit is a natural diuretic  ;D
Title: Re: Diet opinions please
Post by: wavelength on August 02, 2010, 02:06:54 PM
;D ;D

Bist du eigentlich schon in Japan?