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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on August 10, 2010, 06:19:46 PM
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of elite level , national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this .
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs.
4. Genetics plays a huge role in BB success at the higest levels of the sport.
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
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you are a disgusting old fruit, and GH15 owns your fucking mind
HOW MANY THREADS HAVE YOU STARTED ABOUT GH15 IN THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS???? ::) ::) ::)
Where is your fucking dignity ::) ::)
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1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
What do you define as "just a few roids"?
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What do you define as "just a few roids"?
exactly, cause gym buffs have typically been SO honest with others about their steroid use ::) ::)
the never, inflate, minimalize or outright fabricate ::) ::)
they surely are completely honest with fat-tit howard ::) ::)
there are IFBB pros for christ sake that still claim natural status with a straight face.........but howie has his finger on the pulse
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What do you define as "just a few roids"?
Good question. I would say it would refer to a guy who did a small cycle or two (to experiment?) , got off and spent most of his lifting life clean.
IT could be a guy that did a couple cycles as a college football player.
It could also be an older guy like me , who uses Androgel to keep his test levels in the ideal * (MD values for health NOT bodybuilding).
The big issue is that the amounts would be small or very infrequent. Where it is clear that over 90% of his size/strength is NOT from any drug use.
TO be specific , a small amount would be no more than a 200 mg shot of test or 100 mg of decca a week.
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i like to call it the 1/3-1/2 rule..................pr etty much everyone rounds their dose down by around a third............most unfortunately cut their does in half when they talk about it to others
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"It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this"
Why should anybody tell everyone what they are doing,especially if it`s illegal?
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exactly, cause gym buffs have typically been SO honest with others about their steroid use ::) ::)
the never, inflate, minimalize or outright fabricate ::) ::)
they surely are completely honest with fat-tit howard ::) ::)
there are IFBB pros for christ sake that still claim natural status with a straight face.........but howie has his finger on the pulse
You actually hit upon one of they key pts in the debate. It is near imposible to really know who takes what. We end up going on rumor or heresay...good pt. I think that is the mistake GH15 makes in his strong view , that it is all drugs. To me , that is impossible to know as NOBODY really knows all the actual data
Fat tit? LOL, I am trying to get leaner and am getting back into running.
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"It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this"
Why should anybody tell everyone what they are doing,especially if it`s illegal?
I agree and I tried to mention that in the "disagree" pts on my outline above.
That is exactly why the IFBB needs to enforce drug testing.
1.To compete in the IFBB pros ya gotta use a lot of drugs
2. in most places that kind of drug use is ILLEGAL
3. I think it wrong to "be required" to break the law , just to compete on level playing field.
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Good question. I would say it would refer to a guy who did a small cycle or two (to experiment?) , got off and spent most of his lifting life clean.
IT could be a guy that did a couple cycles as a college football player.
It could also be an older guy like me , who uses Androgel to keep his test levels in the ideal * (MD values for health NOT bodybuilding).
The big issue is that the amounts would be small or very infrequent. Where it is clear that over 90% of his size/strength is NOT from any drug use.
TO be specific , a small amount would be no more than a 200 mg shot of test or 100 mg of decca a week.
Competitive BBing requires lots of drugs to be competitive, I think we can all agree on that. Anyone can enter a show drug free, but they will never win a show drug free. Secondly, the IFBB will never drug test.
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of elite level , national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this .
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs.
4. Genetics plays a huge role in BB success at the higest levels of the sport.
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
Nobody gives a fuck about what you agree/disagree with.
Just try to make something about your obsession with gh15.
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Competitive BBing requires lots of drugs to be competitive, I think we can all agree on that. Anyone can enter a show drug free, but they will never win a show drug free. Secondly, the IFBB will never drug test.
I disagree that every winner of a drug tested shows cheats and uses. Plenty of guys have done just fine without drugs.
Hmmm, you are correct that as things stand the IFBB won't drug test. BUT...shit happens, ya never know.
Either way, I am a fan of the sport. If things stay UNtested , I am going to some pro shows, and they started testing I would still go.
It won't change my support one way or the other.
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Nobody gives a fuck about what you agree/disagree with.
Just try to make something about your obsession with gh15.
I already realize that tis is not a pressing concern in the media.
For someone that doesn't care, you sure made an effort to read the threead topic and post here. :-*
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I disagree that every winner of a drug tested shows cheats and uses. Plenty of guys have done just fine without drugs.
Hmmm, you are correct that as things stand the IFBB won't drug test. BUT...shit happens, ya never know.
Either way, I am a fan of the sport. If things stay UNtested , I am going to some pro shows, and they started testing I would still go.
It won't change my support one way or the other.
Just so you know I wasn't talking about drug tested shows.
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Just so you know I wasn't talking about drug tested shows.
Good pt, thanks.
At the national level you can't win without drugs BUT I have seen a handful of guys win at the state UNtested level.
I am nothing special and I won a few state /local shows without being on anything. It depends on the show and level of comp. BUT I agree any big major UNtested show won't be one by a natty.
For example, say Goodrum finally gets cut and shows some definition ( hey it could happen)
He enters an UNtested NPC show and beats 2 smooth guys who are not very conditioned.
I hate to admit it ,but I got some wins by simply being in shape , in a division with a few guys who looked kinda smooth under the lights.
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I already realize that tis is not a pressing concern in the media.
For someone that doesn't care, you sure made an effort to read the threead topic and post here. :-*
reading the thread topic in the list is unavoidable.
I opened the thread, clicked on the "quote" button and made my remark, i didn't even bother to read your bullshit. ;D ;D
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reading the thread topic in the list is unavoidable.
I opened the thread, clicked on the "quote" button and made my remark, i didn't even bother to read your bullshit. ;D ;D
No biggy, as a high school science teacher I am used to people not reading what I wrote or ignoring me when I talk ;)
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Good pt, thanks.
At the national level you can't win without drugs BUT I have seen a handful of guys win at the state UNtested level.
I am nothing special and I won a few state /local shows without being on anything. It depends on the show and level of comp. BUT I agree any big major UNtested show won't be one by a natty.
For example, say Goodrum finally gets cut and shows some definition ( hey it could happen)
He enters an UNtested NPC show and beats 2 smooth guys who are not very conditioned.
I hate to admit it ,but I got some wins by simply being in shape , in a division with a few guys who looked kinda smooth under the lights.
Yes that can happen. You come in in shape and beat a couple of fat guys who are on. Sadly, the guy who enter local shows are on more stuff than the guys in the 80's are the Olympia level.
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Yes that can happen. You come in in shape and beat a couple of fat guys who are on. Sadly, the guy who enter local shows are on more stuff than the guys in the 80's are the Olympia level.
I know it! I can't even begin to tell ya the number of meatheads who enter shows juiced to the gills, BUT smooth with few cuts. Unreal back acne , bitch tits, absurd synthol, you name it and they obviosuly think they look "AWESOME". Sure, they look big and bulky walking around but on stage look flat as a painted wall. Most will have an entourage of bros in tow at the contest.
After the meathead gets destroyed , they all blame judging politics .
I can tell you from decades of experience that at the local /state level being ripped is a LOT more important than drugs in a lot of shows
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I like Howard.....his posts are so cutting edge and at the same time entertaining ::) ::)
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I like Howard.....his posts are so cutting edge and at the same time entertaining ::) ::)
At least you are screwing me with a smile :-*. Next time , how about more vaseline and a reach-around?
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of elite level , national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this .
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs.
4. Genetics plays a huge role in BB success at the higest levels of the sport.
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
Great evaluation!!
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of elite level , national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this .
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs.
4. Genetics plays a huge role in BB success at the higest levels of the sport.
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
Listen Mr. E=MCqueer. Everybody knows plenty of big guys. But all those natural "big guys" shrink down to nothing if and when they ever do a contest diet. You want people to believe that you barely touch drugs etc etc? Listen, no one gives a fuck. You look like a bucket of shit whether your on or not. Your not on andro gel because of your test levels. Your on it because your dick is broken 4women. You need to jump out of the closet and live your life for crying out loud. I hate queers as much as the next guy, but if you're queer, you're queer!!!
I bet you show your students pictures of Phil Heath and say shit like " I used to be the size of this guy when I was that age but mother nature takes its course y0u little buckeroose". You may or may not know this, but you Sir are treading on the path that is Dr. Melvin Goodwin. Smarten your shit up bro before we send Sev enough money to fly him to the states and not only figure fuck your woman, but also steal her away from you >:(
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of elite level , national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this .
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs.
4. Genetics plays a huge role in BB success at the higest levels of the sport.
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
I haven't read the whole thread yet so this may have already been addressed.
I don't know what you mean by impressive gains. It's been my experience, after training consistently for over 35 years at countless gyms, that very few people that train consistently and follow a good diet look impressive. I will even go as far to say that if I didn't know who they were and just saw them at the mall or beach I would never have guessed that they work out at all. Anybody reading this, the next time you go to the gym spend a few minutes warming up on the bike and look around. Look at the people you see all the time working out. How many actually look in any kind of shape?
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Howard if the IFBB enforced the rules, the sport would fucking suck. I don't wanna see some oiled up normal bloke, I wanna see some muscled up oiled up freak...No Homo.
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Disagree
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
No where has gh15 claimed that drugs play the only role in a BB success. He has said many times that what separates the top of the top is not only response to hormones (genetics) but how you are put together. Your structure and muscle shape. Also, a factor due to genetics.
With enough high quality drugs, food, consistent training and free time a large percentage of the population can attain pro size. You can get as far as national competition. To be world class you need the genetic gift of muscle shape and proportion.
But at that level, it's drugs and your response to them because no matter how hard you train and how good your nutrition without drugs you don't have a chance.
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of ALL level , locals,, national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this and its wrong for the gym rat who claim natural to lie about this,,
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs,,it is also imposible to win a local mr city and be the local hero at your city with out drugs ,,that includes spring breaks hard body contests,,
4. Genetic RESPOND to hormones plays a huge role in BB success at any level levels of the cult,,genetics play a role when you determine who win mr tampa steve or hanry ,,both are profesionals and THATS ONLY WHEN GENETIC COUNTS,,
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
EVERY STRONG BIG GUY WITH singles to low doubles bf percentage is on hormones,,but yes you can build a 180lb 10% physiqe at 5'9 that will be dense and when pumped may even look good for the girls,, you can also make that phsyqe very cut and defines at 165 at 6% for spring break ,,but rest assure you will be wiped by the 197 lb fella who show up same height at 8% because he is on,,,
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
NO DRUGS = NO PROS,,a pro with otu drugs me included is nothing to write home about,, jason cutler with no drugs = 190-200lb at 15-16% on a good day ,,there will never be drug enforcment because there is no bodybuilding with out hormones,,why would someone come to see you if you are 148 lb at 4 percent at the hiehg tof 5'11 ? they got same muscle mass on them ...
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
hormones as i said before = 90% the rest is 10% ,,you wont be abl eto do nothing naturally or if clean for over 1-2 years,,inaddition ofcourse you wqont be able to win shows if your diet is not dialed to the t so yes it is there too ,,same as the rest only to a lesser degree,,,
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
so there you have it gh15 personal signature on your own posting,,now we agree on many things,,
gh15 approved
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GH15, thanks for the thoughtful reply and food for thought on this issue.
I think where we really differ is :
1. How good can a true natty be in terms of ripped muscle size?
I think that the bar is HIGHER than you estimate. A genetic freak natty is after all a genetic freak.
I sincerely believe based on what I have observed , that the majority of top pros would still be look damn impressive without drugs.
To be specific , I think Jay Cutler could compete at least 215 and ripped without drugs.
This is a good 50 lbs below what he competes at now , which is reasonable.
Ronnie at his peak could have competed at 225 just as cut, again this was a good 60 lbs under his biggest Olympia wt.
I do agree that DRUG TESTED pro BB would be quite different in the IFBB.
The female pros would be light years better and have a lot more mass market appeal . Of course the typical schmo would be upset, but that is a rather small niche market hehe.
The male pros would be more realistic and not as freaky obviously, which I think would be a great thing.
Once again, the typical "hardcore" fan who loves freaks is going to have a meltdown if Mr Olympia is guy closer to 200 lbs rather than 300.
I really don't care of the sport is 100% drug free as I am not into pure ideals. It is my personal OPINION , that extreme drug use has all but destroyed female BB and hurt the growth and $$$ for the guys.
You need to realize that I think Frank Zane was the ideal Mr Olympia physique to fully understand me and my BB ideals.
Thanks again.
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Believe it or not I AGREE with GH15 and some of his views on drugs in BB.
Agree
1. Extreme drug use is a big part of ALL level , locals,, national and IFBB pro bodybuilding.
2. It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this and its wrong for the gym rat who claim natural to lie about this,,
3. It is impossible to be a top IFBB pro BB without drugs,,it is also imposible to win a local mr city and be the local hero at your city with out drugs ,,that includes spring breaks hard body contests,,
4. Genetic RESPOND to hormones plays a huge role in BB success at any level levels of the cult,,genetics play a role when you determine who win mr tampa steve or hanry ,,both are profesionals and THATS ONLY WHEN GENETIC COUNTS,,
Disagree
1. You can and will make impressive gains via basic , hard training and good diet without drugs
Now, you won't be an IFBB pro BB, but you can build a strong , healthy muscular physique.
I have know plenty of big , strong, muscular guys that didn't do any (or just a few) roids .
To claim that EVERY big strong guy is juiced, is silly .
EVERY STRONG BIG GUY WITH singles to low doubles bf percentage is on hormones,,but yes you can build a 180lb 10% physiqe at 5'9 that will be dense and when pumped may even look good for the girls,, you can also make that phsyqe very cut and defines at 165 at 6% for spring break ,,but rest assure you will be wiped by the 197 lb fella who show up same height at 8% because he is on,,,
2. The IFBB should enforce their existing 48 pgs of drug testing/banned substances rules.
Unlike GH15 I feel strongly the top pros would still look damn impressive without a lot drugs.
Obviously the pro physiques would be smaller and less freaky. But a more classic look , would have better mass market appeal.
This,would increase the sponsors and $$$ the pros could make and they wouldn't have the legal hassles.
NO DRUGS = NO PROS,,a pro with otu drugs me included is nothing to write home about,, jason cutler with no drugs = 190-200lb at 15-16% on a good day ,,there will never be drug enforcment because there is no bodybuilding with out hormones,,why would someone come to see you if you are 148 lb at 4 percent at the hiehg tof 5'11 ? they got same muscle mass on them ...
3.While drugs do play a role in BB success it is hardly the only one. Muscle shape, conditioning, separation, balance, etc and contest diet, all play a huge role in how a pro looks on stage.
hormones as i said before = 90% the rest is 10% ,,you wont be abl eto do nothing naturally or if clean for over 1-2 years,,inaddition ofcourse you wqont be able to win shows if your diet is not dialed to the t so yes it is there too ,,same as the rest only to a lesser degree,,,
I am trying to keep this debate civil and on the issues, thus the outline and no personal attack on GH15. I know some here think I am a douchebag which is fine. BUT try to make a post reply that adds to the either side of this debate.
so there you have it gh15 personal signature on your own posting,,now we agree on many things,,
gh15 approved
please GH dont even vindicate howard the lecherous creep by replying to his absurd posts
he is a laughing stalk....
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To be specific , I think Jay Cutler could compete at least 215 and ripped without drugs.
This is a good 50 lbs below what he competes at now , which is reasonable.
Ronnie at his peak could have competed at 225 just as cut, again this was a good 60 lbs under his biggest Olympia wt.
WTF! jay cutler is 5'9 .you really think he'd be at least 215 ripped without drugs?
man you live under a fuckin rock
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"It is unethical and wrong for the top guys to lie about this"
Why should anybody tell everyone what they are doing,especially if it`s illegal?
This is exactly why people lie about it. Why would one want to incriminate one's self? More of a legal issue than just being a liar, especially here in the states where you will be branded a cheater and an addict.
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WTF! jay cutler is 5'9 .you really think he'd be at least 215 ripped without drugs?
man you live under a fuckin rock
you gotta pardon howard,...........his mentally retarded
throwing around these numbers, 215, 225, rippped........@ 5'9 thats like a high level NPC guy.........pros are liek 235-245 on stage
so what he is saying essentially, that for a 5'9 guy..............all the steroids, all the HGH, all the insulin will only add that final 10-15 stage lbs.
he really is a stupid, stupid old man............
without steroids: 5'9 @ 225 on stage
with steroids : 5'9 @ 235 on stage
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No, I am saying a good 50 or 60 lbs added with the drugs. EVERYONE would lose a good 10-20% mass.That is my estimate
Ronnie was the biggest Mr O at 286. It seems reasonable to think he could be 226 and ripped with drugs.
A 200 lb ripped NPC guy drugged with around 180 natty,
Well you wrong, even ronnie coleman, if he were totally natural, would have competed at sub-200lbs
say ronnie is 5'9-5'10.............most guys that size would compete are like 175........naturally.... ..........lets say ronnie is a REAL FREAK, which he is, if he is lucky............real lucky and an exceptional natural bodybuilder............h e might have conceivabley got up to around 190-193.........and that probably pressing it a little far
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you gotta pardon howard,...........his mentally retarded
throwing around these numbers, 215, 225, rippped........@ 5'9 thats like a high level NPC guy.........pros are liek 235-245 on stage
so what he is saying essentially, that for a 5'9 guy..............all the steroids, all the HGH, all the insulin will only add that final 10-15 stage lbs.
he really is a stupid, stupid old man............
without steroids: 5'9 @ 225 on stage
with steroids : 5'9 @ 235 on stage
You are 100% right, I am retard. Why the hell I am wasting my time on here talking to you douchebags ?
I got a sexy wife and the MLB package with actual games on ,RIGHT NOW etc. I swear to GOD that just hit me about how absurd it is.
Here I sit in my tighty whitys posting on get big like it matters or something.
I'm an idiot.This is pathetic. Good night
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...I am retard.
This just keeps getting better.....
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You are 100% right, I am retard. Why the hell I am wasting my time on here talking to you douchebags ?
I got a sexy wife and the MLB package with actual games on ,RIGHT NOW etc. I swear to GOD that just hit me about how absurd it is.
Here I sit in my tighty whitys posting on get big like it matters or something.
I'm an idiot.This is pathetic. Good night
so you mean you could really be accomplishing something right now..............like watching baseball on TV.............WAY TO SET THE WORLD ON FIRE HOWARD, lol
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so you mean you could really be accomplishing something right now..............like watching baseball on TV.............WAY TO SET THE WORLD ON FIRE HOWARD, lol
Now, if I was watching baseball in my underwear drinking a beer and farting in my dogs face, it would be a BIGGER acomplishment then reading your post.