Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Meso_z on August 13, 2010, 04:19:31 AM
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who does it? does it make any sense?
this year im going to stay on a relatively "clean" diet....the reason?
OVERbulked, which lead me to OVERdiet for a contest, lost a shitload of mass, even on drugs and came in looking like shit.
im thinking of staying on a clean diet just for health and try to "grow" into my next "show"
discuss..
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let me preface this by saying i dont exactly practice what im about to say as much as i should:
your eating habits should not be a "diet", as much as a consistently adhered to nutrition plan and eating philosophy.............. ..a bodybuilders "diet", whether they are "bulking" or "cutting" should ideally not look all that different..............t he same foods would be eaten, with only the quantity and macro nutrient ratio changing.
also, unless you:
1) just are starting lifting, from scratch or from time off
2) going on your first steroid cycle, or dramatically upping your typical dose and adding new, exotic compounds
3) are some 1/1,000,000 genetic mutant
"growing" into a show is pie-in-the-sky BB culture jargon..........you hear a lot of them talkin about "growing into a show", but its really bullshit
"growing into a show" translates into............."i didnt let myself become a fat, bloated pig in the previous offseason"
you cant grow without a requisite calorie surplus (except for the conditions i mentioned).........
there is an industry legend about levrone actually gaining weight into shows..........but thats because he would "supposedly" go off shit for months at a time after his competitions............ ..so with his genetics, and of course going back on large doses of steroids, its possible................ .but like most legends, its probably highly exaggerated how much weight he gained into the show.............he weight probably didnt skyrocket as much as his body composition changed from fat to muscle.
either way, you dont have levrones genetics im guessing............so i wouldnt count too heavily on growing into your next show
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let me preface this by saying i dont exactly practice what im about to say as much as i should:
your eating habits should not be a "diet", as much as a consistently adhered to nutrition plan and eating philosophy.............. ..a bodybuilders "diet", whether they are "bulking" or "cutting" should ideally not look all that different..............t he same foods would be eaten, with only the quantity and macro nutrient ratio changing.
also, unless you:
1) just are starting lifting, from scratch or from time off
2) going on your first steroid cycle, or dramatically upping your typical dose and adding new, exotic compounds
3) are some 1/1,000,000 genetic mutant
"growing" into a show is pie-in-the-sky BB culture jargon..........you hear a lot of them talkin about "growing into a show", but its really bullshit
"growing into a show" translates into............."i didnt let myself become a fat, bloated pig in the previous offseason"
you cant grow without a requisite calorie surplus (except for the conditions i mentioned).........
there is an industry legend about levrone actually gaining weight into shows..........but thats because he would "supposedly" go off shit for months at a time after his competitions............ ..so with his genetics, and of course going back on large doses of steroids, its possible................ .but like most legends, its probably highly exaggerated how much weight he gained into the show.............he weight probably didnt skyrocket as much as his body composition changed from fat to muscle.
either way, you dont have levrones genetics im guessing............so i wouldnt count too heavily on growing into your next show
QFT..Well put and easy to understand.
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Ok let me put this in another way..
"dieting" early into a show, and when this show is close just increase carbs a bit, maintaining your weight and come in FULLER.
Just like a "rebound" from a contest.
I see no tpoint on bulking.......sure cheat meals here and there but not skyrocket my calories.thats the plan.
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Ok let me put this in another way..
"dieting" early into a show, and when this show is close just increase carbs a bit, maintaining your weight and come in FULLER.
Just like a "rebound" from a contest.
I see no tpoint on bulking.......sure cheat meals here and there but not skyrocket my calories.thats the plan.
you might have something there..............with all the questions and uncertainties that occur during those crucial last few days before a show
how many times have we seen a bodybuilder look like garbage..........then post pics on tuesday "after i went to the buffet" looking amazing
so yeah, growing into the show , in the REAL short-term might be a very good idea...............they all look better a day or two after anyway it seems
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you might have something there..............with all the questions and uncertainties that occur during those crucial last few days before a show
how many times have we seen a bodybuilder look like garbage..........then post pics on tuesday "after i went to the buffet" looking amazing
so yeah, growing into the show , in the REAL short-term might be a very good idea...............they all look better a day or two after anyway it seems
;)
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you might have something there..............with all the questions and uncertainties that occur during those crucial last few days before a show
how many times have we seen a bodybuilder look like garbage..........then post pics on tuesday "after i went to the buffet" looking amazing
so yeah, growing into the show , in the REAL short-term might be a very good idea...............they all look better a day or two after anyway it seems
I was wondering if dieting half the year is taxing to your body though....then someone would say that "bulking" is a lot more taxing and a "hit or miss thing".
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I was wondering if dieting half the year is taxing to your body though....then someone would say that "bulking" is a lot more taxing and a "hit or miss thing".
well obviously starvation dieting or crash dieting for prolonged segments of time would be ill advised
but overall, i believe keeping a strict diet and low levels of bodyfat is ideal for health and well being
bulking too heavy also has its problems...........but the human body is pretty resilient..............o ut ancestors went thousand of years enduring long periods of feast and famine, they would gain fat, then probably almost starve for a few lean months...........
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Ok let me put this in another way..
"dieting" early into a show, and when this show is close just increase carbs a bit, maintaining your weight and come in FULLER.
Just like a "rebound" from a contest.
I see no tpoint on bulking.......sure cheat meals here and there but not skyrocket my calories.thats the plan.
Greatest way to diet for a show.
do it.
That's what I am doing this year, i am getting down to 6%bf at least for december, then I will add a bit of insulin and keep me full while eating clean, right up until june 8)
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Greatest way to diet for a show.
do it.
That's what I am doing this year, i am getting down to 6%bf at least for december, then I will add a bit of insulin and keep me full while eating clean, right up until june 8)
Don't forget the bee pollen!
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there is an industry legend about levrone actually gaining weight into shows..........but thats because he would "supposedly" go off shit for months at a time after his competitions............ ..so with his genetics, and of course going back on large doses of steroids, its possible................ .but like most legends, its probably highly exaggerated how much weight he gained into the show.............he weight probably didnt skyrocket as much as his body composition changed from fat to muscle.
You forgot to mention another GetBigger who says this too..... ;)
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Can somone please define eating "clean"? Its one of the dumbest words beaing tossed around in nutrition talk all over.
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Can somone please define eating "clean"? Its one of the dumbest words beaing tossed around in nutrition talk all over.
your either not smart. or you trying (unsuccessfully) to be provocative
if you dont understand what a"clean" diet is.............i would tag along with your mother to her next weight watchers meeting, or pick up a "mens health" magazine on line at the supermarket
start off slow, since your have no concept of nutrition......
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your either not smart. or you trying (unsuccessfully) to be provocative
if you dont understand what a"clean" diet is.............i would tag along with your mother to her next weight watchers meeting, or pick up a "mens health" magazine on line at the supermarket
start off slow, since your have no concept of nutrition......
I know what the typical fitness enthusiast calls a "clean" diet, I know what a common bodybuilder calls a "clean" diet, hell weoght wathcers have their own definition too. If you carefully analyze what people called "clean" eating 10-20 years ago, decades ago, it was different than today.
Still its a silly term used to define a way of eating, I'm still waiting for your definition..............
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I know what the typical fitness enthusiast calls a "clean" diet, I know what a common bodybuilder calls a "clean" diet, hell weoght wathcers have their own definition too. If you carefully analyze what people called "clean" eating 10-20 years ago, decades ago, it was different than today.
Still its a silly term used to define a way of eating, I'm still waiting for your definition..............
im not going to waste my time typing my definition.........you know what im going to say
obviously a gram of carbohydrate from a can of mountain dew is different then a gram of carb from brown rice..............blah, blah, blah
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im not going to waste my time typing my definition.........you know what im going to say
obviously a gram of carbohydrate from a can of mountain dew is different then a gram of carb from brown rice..............blah, blah, blah
not really ;D both of them are very acidic, the rice is pure glucose while the mountain dew is half glucose half fructose. the mountain dew would spike insulin less than the rice would. though the brown rice does have one gram of fiber for every 30 grams of glucose. but thats really insignificant.
sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat bread/pasta/cereal, cous cous, and every other "clean carb" dont really offer any advantages over any "dirty carb" like white rice, white bread, processed cereals, sugary candy, etc. just make sure that you watch fat content.
clean food, IMO, is just keeping saturated fat to a minimum. if going for overall health, then also avoid all carbohydrates besides fruits and vegetables.
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im not going to waste my time typing my definition.........you know what im going to say
obviously a gram of carbohydrate from a can of mountain dew is different then a gram of carb from brown rice..............blah, blah, blah
Ok, I get how you think.
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not really ;D both of them are very acidic, the rice is pure glucose while the mountain dew is half glucose half fructose. the mountain dew would spike insulin less than the rice would. though the brown rice does have one gram of fiber for every 30 grams of glucose. but thats really insignificant.
sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat bread/pasta/cereal, cous cous, and every other "clean carb" dont really offer any advantages over any "dirty carb" like white rice, white bread, processed cereals, sugary candy, etc. just make sure that you watch fat content.
clean food, IMO, is just keeping saturated fat to a minimum. if going for overall health, then also avoid all carbohydrates besides fruits and vegetables.
my example wasnt that good...........but you know a good deal more them me
anymore, its not even the carbs so much, or the "quality" of the carbs ..............i have found very little difference whether you use white or wheat bread, or whether you eat an apple or a yam.............
when i think clean.............it has more to do with staying away from the heavy saturated fats and too much red meat
the older i get, the more im starting to realize that a calorie is pretty much a calorie................. as long aas you getting enough protein. and you calories are at a deficit.......you will drop weight
but still, there is "eating clean" you would agree 600 cals from a flank steak and potato is more desirable then 600 cals from chicken wings and potatoe chips...............righ t?
Ok, I get how you think.
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not really ;D both of them are very acidic, the rice is pure glucose while the mountain dew is half glucose half fructose. the mountain dew would spike insulin less than the rice would. though the brown rice does have one gram of fiber for every 30 grams of glucose. but thats really insignificant.
sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat bread/pasta/cereal, cous cous, and every other "clean carb" dont really offer any advantages over any "dirty carb" like white rice, white bread, processed cereals, sugary candy, etc. just make sure that you watch fat content.
Agreed, in my experience the only difference between let's say white rice vs brown rice is the fiber content and because of that brown rice is a little more nutritious, but if someone is getting enough fiber from other sources, then white rice is completely fine.
I still think "clean" eating is a silly term.
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There's more in the rice than just fiber and carbs, but there's very little in the soda besides carbs.
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There's more in the rice than just fiber and carbs, but there's very little in the soda besides carbs.
no dude, not really. what, a little b vitamins that dont even absorb anyways?
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Dorian measured every meal even in the off season, and was generally considered to have the best conditioning around. So controlled bulking would seem to be the way. Having ten pizzas in the name of bulking up = stupid..............havi ng slightly more rice in a meal = good idea :)
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no dude, not really. what, a little b vitamins that dont even absorb anyways?
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
...however, I generally disagree with the nutritionism approach that seeks to breakdown the stuff we eat into constituent elements because there's always someone who decides to put all the 'important stuff' into a pill or powder and market it as 'the best of food' or 'food - only better.' It just doesn't work that way imo. As a rule of thumb, I consider edible substances that occur in nature to be better to eat than an edible which was man-altered or manufactured. I still drink Coke, and I'd include the calories if I were counting, but I don't consider them to be nutritionally efficient calories.
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http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
...however, I generally disagree with the nutritionism approach that seeks to breakdown the stuff we eat into constituent elements because there's always someone who decides to put all the 'important stuff' into a pill or powder and market it as 'the best of food' or 'food - only better.' It just doesn't work that way imo. As a rule of thumb, I consider edible substances that occur in nature to be better to eat than an edible which was man-altered or manufactured. I still drink Coke, and I'd include the calories if I were counting, but I don't consider them to be nutritionally efficient calories.
i agree completely about food found in nature being superior to stuff that has been altered by man. do you honestly see rice, even brown rice, as a natural food? where in nature would you find boiling water with a bunch of rice sitting in it? rice isnt a natural food. you would never eat it if you were stranded in the wild. you would eat animals, vegetables, fruits, nuts.
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i agree completely about food found in nature being superior to stuff that has been altered by man. do you honestly see rice, even brown rice, as a natural food? where in nature would you find boiling water with a bunch of rice sitting in it? rice isnt a natural food. you would never eat it if you were stranded in the wild. you would eat animals, vegetables, fruits, nuts.
Hairsplitter. ;D Idk man. I'd call cooking different than refining, etc. You make a good point tho - it's all where you want to draw that line.
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not really ;D both of them are very acidic, the rice is pure glucose while the mountain dew is half glucose half fructose. the mountain dew would spike insulin less than the rice would. though the brown rice does have one gram of fiber for every 30 grams of glucose. but thats really insignificant.
sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat bread/pasta/cereal, cous cous, and every other "clean carb" dont really offer any advantages over any "dirty carb" like white rice, white bread, processed cereals, sugary candy, etc. just make sure that you watch fat content.
clean food, IMO, is just keeping saturated fat to a minimum. if going for overall health, then also avoid all carbohydrates besides fruits and vegetables.
I would say thermic effect of feeding for complex carbs is higher (20%) as opposed to "dirty carbs" also you feel full for longer time on 50g C from brown rice vs white rice/bread.
It feels like it's easier to gain fat from non complex carbs like regular pasta, white bread etc because of the flour...but that might not be true, not sure...
My definition of eating clean: complex carbs & lean protein (thermic effect 20% and 30%), minimal fat except for some added healthy fats.
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Hairsplitter. ;D Idk man. I'd call cooking different than refining, etc. You make a good point tho - it's all where you want to draw that line.
i am all about eating natural foods free of chemicals. i feel much more energetic and healthy when i stick to water, meat, fruits and veggies. just so much cleaner. less stress on the body to filter out the junk, and with thousands of known phytochemicals in raw plants and probably thousands more unknown, the health benefits (and also muscle/fat benefits) of fruits/veggies cant be denied. my rule on eating healthy is- would you eat it if you were stranded in the wild? carbohyrdates of any kind outside of fruits and veggies? would never eat them in the wild.
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let me preface this by saying i dont exactly practice what im about to say as much as i should:
your eating habits should not be a "diet", as much as a consistently adhered to nutrition plan and eating philosophy.............. ..a bodybuilders "diet", whether they are "bulking" or "cutting" should ideally not look all that different..............t he same foods would be eaten, with only the quantity and macro nutrient ratio changing.
also, unless you:
1) just are starting lifting, from scratch or from time off
2) going on your first steroid cycle, or dramatically upping your typical dose and adding new, exotic compounds
3) are some 1/1,000,000 genetic mutant
"growing" into a show is pie-in-the-sky BB culture jargon..........you hear a lot of them talkin about "growing into a show", but its really bullshit
"growing into a show" translates into............."i didnt let myself become a fat, bloated pig in the previous offseason"
you cant grow without a requisite calorie surplus (except for the conditions i mentioned).........
there is an industry legend about levrone actually gaining weight into shows..........but thats because he would "supposedly" go off shit for months at a time after his competitions............ ..so with his genetics, and of course going back on large doses of steroids, its possible................ .but like most legends, its probably highly exaggerated how much weight he gained into the show.............he weight probably didnt skyrocket as much as his body composition changed from fat to muscle.
either way, you dont have levrones genetics im guessing............so i wouldnt count too heavily on growing into your next show
actually growing into a show means having your calories and your dosages higher than your offseason numbers at the time you start your prep and keeping your calories the same thru the length of your prep even though your losing bodyweight, and upping your compounds usage at the same time to keep losing fat and making lean gains.
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i agree completely about food found in nature being superior to stuff that has been altered by man. do you honestly see rice, even brown rice, as a natural food? where in nature would you find boiling water with a bunch of rice sitting in it? rice isnt a natural food. you would never eat it if you were stranded in the wild. you would eat animals, vegetables, fruits, nuts.
. Whey protein has shown to have tons of health benefits for immune function and the digestive system. All vitamins, fish oil, esential fatty acids can do is make one healthier. If one were to drop all vitamins from their diet wouldnt it actally do more harm than good?
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. Whey protein has shown to have tons of health benefits for immune function and the digestive system. All vitamins, fish oil, esential fatty acids can do is make one healthier. If one were to drop all vitamins from their diet wouldnt it actally do more harm than good?
whey protein, fish oil, vitamins... ect.. all natural extracts. difference between isolating quality components of natural foods and processing foods to make them void of any nutritional benefit. kind of the opposite. the point is that the foods you would eat if you were on your own in the wild are the healthy foods. not that unnatural subtances cant have health benefits. lots of drugs can boost health, most are natural extracts.
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actually growing into a show means having your calories and your dosages higher than your offseason numbers at the time you start your prep and keeping your calories the same thru the length of your prep even though your losing bodyweight, and upping your compounds usage at the same time to keep losing fat and making lean gains.
;D another over thinker complicating matters in an attempt to seem "professional" or knowledgeable..
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;D another over thinker complicating matters in an attempt to seem "professional" or knowledgeable..
youre neither professional or knowledgeable...give it a rest candizzle
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actually growing into a show means having your calories and your dosages higher than your offseason numbers at the time you start your prep and keeping your calories the same thru the length of your prep even though your losing bodyweight, and upping your compounds usage at the same time to keep losing fat and making lean gains.
;D
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I'm kinda going through a similar scenario myself..... Its the off-season and I'm starting to feel like I put on a little more pounds than I should've... I'm about 50 lbs from contest weight...
So now I'd like to drop 20-30 lbs - and stay at this BF% year round, I'd still have to cut 20 or so lbs come contest prep time... but my qualm with this whole thing of sorta cutting right now and staying like that year round is I'm of the menatlity that: If I'm cutting then I'm not putting on muscle! And damn it I wanna put on muscle LOL But I would be happy with my love handles gone!
BTW.... only persons I've ever read about to grow into shows were Frank Zane, and Kevin Levrone!
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it amazes me that most getbiggers still thinks calories are different because 1 is a so called bad sugary food while another is from a starchy food.
how many times must we tell you - a calorie is a calorie when talking about fat loss.
you can eat 200cals of sugar or 200cals of pasta - the results will be the same.
in fact the insulin release from eating these bad foods (which you all seem to feel is the main problem with these so called bad foods) would if your theory was correct actually help retain lean mass and burn more fat.
it shows how deluded and brainwashed you have all become :-\
science has shown 100% that a calorie is a calorie - free your minds getbig.
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I'm kinda going through a similar scenario myself..... Its the off-season and I'm starting to feel like I put on a little more pounds than I should've... I'm about 50 lbs from contest weight...
So now I'd like to drop 20-30 lbs - and stay at this BF% year round, I'd still have to cut 20 or so lbs come contest prep time... but my qualm with this whole thing of sorta cutting right now and staying like that year round is I'm of the menatlity that: If I'm cutting then I'm not putting on muscle! And damn it I wanna put on muscle LOL But I would be happy with my love handles gone!
BTW.... only persons I've ever read about to grow into shows were Frank Zane, and Kevin Levrone!
youve got to give up on putting on muscle and just try to preserve your muscle while stripping off the fat as quickly as possible. once you get lean dont increase your calories too much. keep the same cutting diet just add in some more carbs around your workouts. and then you can slowly add in more food if necessary, but give it time.
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it amazes me that most getbiggers still thinks calories are different because 1 is a so called bad sugary food while another is from a starchy food.
how many times must we tell you - a calorie is a calorie when talking about fat loss.
you can eat 200cals of sugar or 200cals of pasta - the results will be the same.
in fact the insulin release from eating these bad foods (which you all seem to feel is the main problem with these so called bad foods) would if your theory was correct actually help retain lean mass and burn more fat.
it shows how deluded and brainwashed you have all become :-\
science has shown 100% that a calorie is a calorie - free your minds getbig.
Most common sense post of the thread.
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;D another over thinker complicating matters in an attempt to seem "professional" or knowledgeable..
hows that homosexuality and drug addiction treating ya sport...?
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actually growing into a show means having your calories and your dosages higher than your offseason numbers at the time you start your prep and keeping your calories the same thru the length of your prep even though your losing bodyweight, and upping your compounds usage at the same time to keep losing fat and making lean gains.
i understand what it mean technically............b ut this is what the definition it has been perverted into.
it very trendy now for pros to talk about growing into a show, how many of them do you think are actually growing, adding lean mass, into a show
very few, in reality they are not letting themselves get too fat in the offseason, so they could keep their calories higher precontest