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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on August 13, 2010, 12:07:16 PM
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Would you support having a Jack Bauer-type person take out the head of Wikileaks, or take some kind of action to stop the release of documents that threaten national security?
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The assholes over at wikileaks have most likely already signed the death warrant for a lot of Afghans who are helping the US by releasing their names in the last batch.
If "someone" wants to rid of this guy, it will look like an accident I can guarantee that
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What happened?
Did they out a covert CIA agent?
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The assholes over at wikileaks have most likely already signed the death warrant for a lot of Afghans who are helping the US by releasing their names in the last batch.
If "someone" wants to rid of this guy, it will look like an accident I can guarantee that
It's an interesting moral question. I've been watching 24 for the first time and, although the scenarios are unrealistic, some of the issues it raises are thought provoking. Just how far do we go to protect national security? Is killing one or a few to save thousands or even millions acceptable?
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It's an interesting moral question. I've been watching 24 for the first time and, although the scenarios are unrealistic, some of the issues the raises are thought provoking. Just how far do we go to protect national security? Is killing one or a few to save thousands or even millions acceptable?
Given the huge popularity of 24, the answer is a clear yes.
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Given the huge popularity of 24, the answer is a clear yes.
Good show. :)
Also raises questions about the use of torture.
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Good show. :)
Also raises questions about the use of torture.
what questions does it raise about torture
btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new. We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html
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What happened?
Did they out a covert CIA agent?
No, but they released the full names of dozens of Afghan informants and others working undercover, basically signing their death warrant. Hope they're proud of that.
The leaks weren't really much but I think it's ridiculous to release state secrets like that in the middle of a war. Not to mention their heavy editing of everything they release to try to dictate the way the leaks are perceived and the fact that Assange only releases leaks when he needs more money to fund his jet-setting lifestyle and the site is a joke.
The little punk that leaked all this shit should be executed for treason, though.
what questions does it raise about torture
btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new. We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html
So what? Because he's an American citizen he should be exempt from repercussions? Do you know anything about Al-Awlaki? He's a bonafide terrorist, a jihadi, and a major problem. He had a chance to clean up his act. He chose to go down the path of terrorist. Now he has to pay the piper.
But don't worry, the ACLU is helping his father sue the CIA. ::)
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what questions does it raise about torture
btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new. We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html
One of my favorite programs, saw every episode. Sorry to see it end.
The question it raises about torture is should we do it, not are we doing it and again I'm sure the fans would say yes in specific circumstances.
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One of my favorite programs, saw every episode. Sorry to see it end.
The question it raises about torture is should we do it, not are we doing it and again I'm sure the fans would say yes in specific circumstances.
I've never watched the show
does it answer the question as to whether torture actually works or not?
Do they ever torture someone who turns out to not know anything
Do they ever torture someone who doesn't know shit but confesses to anything and everything and sends everyone off on wild goose chases?
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No, but they released the full names of dozens of Afghan informants and others working undercover, basically signing their death warrant. Hope they're proud of that.
The leaks weren't really much but I think it's ridiculous to release state secrets like that in the middle of a war. Not to mention their heavy editing of everything they release to try to dictate the way the leaks are perceived and the fact that Assange only releases leaks when he needs more money to fund his jet-setting lifestyle and the site is a joke.
The little punk that leaked all this shit should be executed for treason, though.
I agree - outing a covert operative -whether Afghan or more importantly American certainly sounds like treason to me
So what? Because he's an American citizen he should be exempt from repercussions? Do you know anything about Al-Awlaki? He's a bonafide terrorist, a jihadi, and a major problem. He had a chance to clean up his act. He chose to go down the path of terrorist. Now he has to pay the piper.
But don't worry, the ACLU is helping his father sue the CIA. ::)
What's your problem man?
Did I say I had any problem with killing that guy?
I'm all for it
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I agree - outing a covert operative -whether Afghan or more importantly American certainly sounds like treason to me
What's your problem man?
Did I say I had any problem with killing that guy?
I'm all for it
I apologize. I took your post to read that you had a problem with Obama putting al-Awlaki on the targeted killing list. As far as I'm concerned, he should be on there. The US govt. gave him a chance to clean up his act because he is a citizen but he chose to get 10x worse. His loss.
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I apologize. I took your post to read that you had a problem with Obama putting al-Awlaki on the targeted killing list. As far as I'm concerned, he should be on there. The US govt. gave him a chance to clean up his act because he is a citizen but he chose to get 10x worse. His loss.
I'm saying we've done it before, we do it now and we no longer pretend we don't do it
I don't see any problem with targeting someone who is actively waging war against our country, planning/financing/conducting terrorist attacks, etc...
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I've never watched the show
does it answer the question as to whether torture actually works or not?
Do they ever torture someone who turns out to not know anything
Do they ever torture someone who doesn't know shit but confesses to anything and everything and sends everyone off on wild goose chases?
id go on a wild goose chase 99 times if it meant the 100 time we got the correct info we needed...
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Would you support having a Jack Bauer-type person take out the head of Wikileaks, or take some kind of action to stop the release of documents that threaten national security?
No
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No
In 24, there is a very interesting tug-of-war between the people who want to use any means necessary to protect innocent lives, and those who believe you go "by the book" no matter what.
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In 24, there is a very interesting tug-of-war between the people who want to use any means necessary to protect innocent lives, and those who believe you go "by the book" no matter what.
I guess I'm a "by the book" kind of nerd... ;D
The Constitution has served us well for hundreds of years, knee jerk reactions haven't...
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I guess I'm a "by the book" kind of nerd... ;D
The Constitution has served us well for hundreds of years, knee jerk reactions haven't...
I don't think knee jerk reactions are the issue. What I'm talking about is where you draw the line . . . or cross the line.
In one sense it's like a Hobson's Choice: violate the Constitutional rights of one or a few to save thousands or millions, or protect the rights of someone who is causing the death of many (or placing their lives and our security in danger).
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I don't think knee jerk reactions are the issue. What I'm talking about is where you draw the line . . . or cross the line.
In one sense it's like a Hobson's Choice: violate the Constitutional rights of one or a few to save thousands or millions, or protect the rights of someone who is causing the death of many (or placing their lives and our security in danger).
I don't think we're advanced enough to make these kinds of decisions. The Patriot Act is a good example, it wasn't passed as a measure to protect Americans, it's just an assault on our freedom. I don't mind (maybe) things like this happening "unofficially". I do think we need groups to keep a close eye on stuff like this though. I think it's a very slippery and dangerous slope.
I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted? ???
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I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted? ???
Never mind, I know now...
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I don't think we're advanced enough to make these kinds of decisions. The Patriot Act is a good example, it wasn't passed as a measure to protect Americans, it's just an assault on our freedom. I don't mind (maybe) things like this happening "unofficially". I do think we need groups to keep a close eye on stuff like this though. I think it's a very slippery and dangerous slope.
I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted? ???
It's very dangerous. But we live in a dangerous world. I think this is above my pay grade too. :)
I don't know if he's committed a crime. The "soldier" who gave him the intel should hang, but not sure what they can do with the Wikileaks owner. Officially.
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I don't really know much about this, the soldier committed treason I think.
We'll disagree on this, I don't know if I can really blame these wiki leaks people. I like to know people are out there who are making it harder on governments that commit unethical and immoral acts.
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I don't really know much about this, the soldier committed treason I think.
We'll disagree on this, I don't know if I can really blame these wiki leaks people. I like to know people are out there who are making it harder on governments that commit unethical and immoral acts.
If you don't have a problem with these people publishing classified documents that threaten lives and national security, then yeah we disagree. Pretty hard to justify IMO. But the media has no conscience. Anything for a story.
I'm really talking about how to deal with things like this.
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If you don't have a problem with these people publishing classified documents that threaten lives and national security, then yeah we disagree. Pretty hard to justify IMO. But the media has no conscience. Anything for a story.
I'm really talking about how to deal with things like this.
If they're publishing documents related to honest, ethical operations that are legal and in the interest of the United States than I'm completely against what they're doing.
If they're publishing documents related to our illegal, immoral wars in the Middle East, and the crimes committed against citizens of this country in the name of the "war on terror" than I support them one hundred percent.
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Hey, it's not like the patriot act was written BEFORE 911, right?
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Hey, it's not like the patriot act was written BEFORE 911, right?
When you point that FACT out, it makes me sound like an idiot, and a conspiracy theorist. :-\
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If they're publishing documents related to honest, ethical operations that are legal and in the interest of the United States than I'm completely against what they're doing.
If they're publishing documents related to our illegal, immoral wars in the Middle East, and the crimes committed against citizens of this country in the name of the "war on terror" than I support them one hundred percent.
Even if publication of those documents threatens the safety of our people?
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Even if publication of those documents threatens the safety of our people?
I don't know... I've got a tendency to support these people, but I don't know...
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If another country was leaking classified documents, we'd be enacting some sanctions or dropping bombs on them. I dont like any group leaking shit which hurts our war efforts.
The only thing (positive?) they're doing is illustrating to the world that we're full of shite in many of our war claims... most ppl know that already. All countries do the same thing on that front - exaggerating threats, pinkimisting reporters, etc... shit happens when you're in a warzone. Anyone who claims our military is above all that is delusional. So WIKIleaks wasn't any big surprise to me.
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The Wikileaks Limited Hang-Out and the Coming War With Iran
http://edwardrynearson.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/the-wikileaks-limited-hang-out-and-the-coming-war-with-iran/ (http://edwardrynearson.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/the-wikileaks-limited-hang-out-and-the-coming-war-with-iran/)
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tarzan - i normally agree with many of your posts - this one i differ-
I dont worry too much about war with iran. Aside from the fact we can't afford that shit now, and public support would be zilch since many people consider the reasons for entering the other 2 wars to be fibs...
Tarpley's book had him predicting war with iran 5 years ago. If cheney didn't do it as a lame duck (with congressional permission as was given in fall 2007 by the dems, pointed out by mike gravel in the debates), I don't think obama will.
I think it's just more posturing, as always. Our struggling economy would collapse if gas suddenly hit $8 a gallon due to straits being closed, and the strategic oil pile obama planned from that BP mess didn't quite pan out...
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I wish Wikileaks would have just said no and I'd have no problem fucking with them (like having our guys hack the site regularly or something). But, the primary problem is the guy who leaked and if he's found guilty, I hope he's shot for treason.
If he hadn't gone with Wiki, he could have gone with any number of sites (all of whom would've loved the publicity).