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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on August 18, 2010, 01:50:38 PM
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Islamic Center Backers Won't Rule Out Taking Funds from Saudi Arabia, Iran
'Ground Zero Mosque' Developers in Talks With NY Gov. Paterson
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN
www.abcnews.com
Aug. 18, 2010—
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The developers behind the Islamic center planned for a site near Ground Zero won't rule out accepting financing from the Mideast -- including from Saudi Arabia and Iran -- as they begin searching for $100 million needed to build the project.
The religious organization and the development company behind the center declined to say how much of the $100 million needed to build the facility has already been raised.
"We are in the planning stages," said Oz Sultan, spokesman for the center now called Park51. "We have just started the process of fundraising planning."
Sultan said it would take three to six months to establish a plan on how to raise the needed capital. He said any fundraising campaign would begin domestically, but he would not comment on whether it would extend overseas or to foreign governments.
"We'll look at all available options within the United States to start. We're hoping to fund this predominately from domestic donors. That can be everything from institutions all the way down to personal [contributors,]" said Sultan.
When asked if they would then turn to foreign donors, Sultan replied, "I can't comment on that."
Pressed on whether the developers were willilng rule out accepting donations from the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran, he repeated, "I can't comment on that."
The center, in the works for over a year, has become a nationwide controversy as the anniversary of 9/11 approaches. Critics charge that having what they call a mosque so close what they consider hallowed ground is insensitive and an insult to the victims' families, especially since the attack was perpetrated in the name of Islam.
Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were Saudi Arabian and funding from that country could further anger those already opposed to the mosque. Many mosques in the U.S. have been funded in part with Saudi money.
Iran has been designated a sponsor of terrorism by the U.S. government.
'Ground Zero Mosque' Developers in Talks With Gov. Paterson
Sultan declined to say how much, if anything, the developers have raised so far.
Through the Park51 Twitter account, Sultan said: "We will disclose funding of the project in compliance with state and federal law as well as vet investors with the [Department of] Treasury."
Sultan said the timeline for fundraising is typical for large scale building projects in New York City.
"You 'spec' the project and then go to the bank, bond offerings and private investors. When Donald Trump says he's building a $250 million building, it's the same general process," he said.
Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, chairman of the Cordoba Initiative, the cultural organization behind the mosque is currently on a federally funded State Department tour of the Middle East, visiting Bahrain, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
The imam is a Sufi Muslim, a mystical branch of Islam whose adherents have been attacked by Muslim extremists overseas.
Sultan said the groups behind Park51 had recently been in touch with New York Gov. David Paterson's office to discuss the governor's reported proposal to move the center to a parcel of land currently owned by the state. Earlier in the week, the group said they were unaware of any discussions with Paterson.
"There's been an initial contact and I know a conversation is ongoing," Sultan said, but would not comment on the details.
Paterson's office did not return calls for comment from ABCNews.com.
Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D- Calif., has called for an investigation into funding, not for the center, but for the conservative effort to oppose it.
"There is no question that there's a concerted effort to make this a political issue by some," Pelosi told San Francisco radio station KCBS. "I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded."
Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures
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By the end of the day, i will bet anything SA is paying for this as well as U.S. Taxpayers.
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hey, 15 of their guys did 911 and asshats didn't even want to investigate.
why should this be any different?
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The religious organization and the development company behind the center declined to say how much of the $100 million needed to build the facility has already been raised.
He said any fundraising campaign would begin domestically, but he would not comment on whether it would extend overseas or to foreign governments.
When asked if they would then turn to foreign donors, Sultan replied, "I can't comment on that."
Pressed on whether the developers were willilng rule out accepting donations from the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran, he repeated, "I can't comment on that."
Sultan declined to say how much, if anything, the developers have raised so far.
"There's been an initial contact and I know a conversation is ongoing," Sultan said, but would not comment on the details.
But, the REAL QUESTION IS: "How is the opposition to the mosque being funded?"
::)
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hey, 15 of their guys did 911 and asshats didn't even want to investigate.
why should this be any different?
Are you doing drugs?
This is disgraceful on so many levels. And think about it, useful idiots and dupes are still supporting it under misguided notions of religious freedom when now they are telling us a mosque is not even going there.
I hope these disgusting imams and muslims, spawn 15 McVeighs to bring it down the day after its opened. The next day I hope its brought down.
2 years after, i hope a Jewish Group plans a massive a temple, or better yet, a meat factory processing pigs goes in there.
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of course it's disgusting. I think a stint in gitmo should clear up their heads.
I just think it's so funny that SOME of the same people who are screaming about saudi funding for a mosque were all, hear no evil, see no evil, when it came to 911 funding ;)
Either you give a shit about countries funding bad guys, or you dont. it's that simple. It's hypocritical for anyone to ignore valid concerns about who paid atta and friends, then throw a shit fit over this funding.
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of course it's disgusting. I think a stint in gitmo should clear up their heads.
I just think it's so funny that SOME of the same people who are screaming about saudi funding for a mosque were all, hear no evil, see no evil, when it came to 911 funding ;)
Either you give a shit about countries funding bad guys, or you dont. it's that simple. It's hypocritical for anyone to ignore valid concerns about who paid atta and friends, then throw a shit fit over this funding.
Show me who was against looking into that other than the govt CYA crowd?
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Show me who was against looking into that other than the govt CYA crowd?
let's see...
bush, who waited 400+ days to even start an investigation, and only after the widows camped out at congress' cafeteria for a year?
various getbiggers who believe the official commission report totally rocks.
the originall commission report which "WASNT INTERESTED" in foreign funding if it didn't direclty implicate al-q.
yeah, you might have missed the years of debate on that. nobody wants to know where the $ came form. Nobody gave a shit about the pockets of burning explosive under all 3 WTC sites 6 weeks after 911 because "that wasn't related to al-quida".
It's hypocrisy at its finest, but i'm not surprised. par for course. they care now, they didn't care them... cause it's a Dem in office, I get it.
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The 9/11 investigation has NOTHING to do with this mosque and the funding of it. The guy heading this project has ties to the Turkish IHH, an organization that is well-known for financing terrorist groups. And in this country, accepting money from terrorist groups will land your ass in jail. So yes, the funding of this mosque most definitely needs to be investigated.
What's with you and the fucking spinning/deflection? It's really gotten old. You're clueless on this topic and you do nothing but avoid any questions directed at you (like the embarrassment of your Constitution claims).
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The 9/11 investigation has NOTHING to do with this mosque and the funding of it.
What's with you and the fucking spinning/deflection?
dude, i already said i'd be fine with sending the iman to gitmo to get to the bottom of the $ questions. no prob there. I agree with 33, it's bullshit.
I simply pointed out the hypocrisy for SOME ppl who give a shit abuot this $, and didn't care about 911 $.
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dude, i already said i'd be fine with sending the iman to gitmo to get to the bottom of the $ questions. no prob there. I agree with 33, it's bullshit.
I simply pointed out the hypocrisy for SOME ppl who give a shit abuot this $, and didn't care about 911 $.
Why? They're two separate incidents. What a stupid fucking argument and typical from you, the new spinster queen.
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What this article says to me plainly is there is no domestic demand or support from this, even from the muslim community.
The backers of this garbage are pushing this for their selfish agenda to stick it in the eye of us and nothing else.
As domestic muslims have no interest in this sufficient to support it, then WTF are we even talking about putting this thing there?
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Why? They're two separate incidents. What a stupid fucking argument and typical from you, the new spinster queen.
hey, i'm no gibbs.
i agreed with 33s point completely. but it's like dems saying "bush should be impeached for war crimes in afghanistan", then saying "Obama is doing a good thing for the afghan people!" when it's the same damn war.
so both sides do it. But for real, if someone was a-okay with saudi manpower and paki $ funding 911... and a-olkay with not going at those countries for their involvement.... it's kinda hypocritical for them to get all dramatic that the same places are now gonna fund this place. I mean, you didn't care these countries were hurting america in 2001, but suddenly you give a shit in 2010?
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Your tax dollars at work
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US spending $16,000 for imam's Mideast tour
MATTHEW LEE | August 18, 2010 05:36 PM EST |
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Compare 05:36 PM EST05:30 PM EST05:21 PM EST05:05 PM EST04:07 PM EST03:07 PM EST and 05:36 PM EST05:30 PM EST05:21 PM EST05:05 PM EST04:07 PM EST03:07 PM EST versions
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WASHINGTON — American taxpayers will pay the imam behind plans for a mosque near the Manhattan site of the Sept. 11 attacks $3,000 in fees for a three-nation outreach trip to the Middle East that will cost roughly $16,000, the State Department said Wednesday.
The department said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf will get a daily $200 honorarium for the 15-day tour to Bahrain, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, which is intended to promote religious tolerance.
Airfare is included, as well as the standard federal government per diem for expenses and lodging in each of the cities he will visit, spokesman P.J. Crowley said. Those per diem rates range from nearly $400 to nearly $500, according to official documents.
The imam's organization, The Cordoba Initiative, referred questions on the matter to the State Department.
Rauf starts his tour Thursday in Bahrain and ends it in the United Arab Emirates Sept. 2. At each stop he is expected to discuss Muslim life in America and promote religious tolerance. He will not be allowed to raise funds for the mosque on the trip, Crowley said.
"We have had conversations with the imam to make sure he understands that during these kinds of trips, he's not to engage in any personal business," Crowley told reporters. "He understands that completely."
"We value his participation as a religious figure here in the United States who can help people overseas understand the role that religion plays in our society," he said.
Story continues below
Rauf's tour has drawn attention because of his plans to build an Islamic center in lower Manhattan near ground zero. Foes of the project say it is insensitive and disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families. The debate has become politicized ahead of November's midterm congressional elections.
Crowley said this will be Rauf's fourth U.S.-government sponsored trip under a program run by the State Department's Bureau of International Information Programs. Earlier, the State Department had said it was his third trip.
Crowley said Rauf had traveled twice to the Middle East in 2007 during the Bush administration and once earlier this year.
On his upcoming trip, Rauf will be in Manama, Bahrain, from Thursday until Monday; Doha, Qatar, from Aug. 24 to Aug. 27 and in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates from Aug. 28 to Sept. 2.
The published maximum per diem rate for U.S. government employees in Manama is $396, in Doha it is $341, and in Abu Dhabi it is $496.
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I'm not opposed to a mosque and community centre in that location. I am opposed to it being funded by Iran and Saudi Arabia.
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Iran and Saudi Arabia funding a project to "promote religious tolerance"... ::) The world should truly look up to those two shining examples of religious tolerance.. Maybe the Taliban are next to fund projects of "religious tolerance" (like the Buddhas of Bamyan that they blew up)
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HA HA HA HA...THis whole case is now an official sham and some of you idiots fell for it. Now to demonize the community center and mosque all the more the american media has now involved Iran and Saudi Arabia in the "funding" of it. Good grief is there no end to this tactic of fear and terror?
SUCKERS...All of you
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HA HA HA HA...THis whole case is now an official sham and some of you idiots fell for it. Now to demonize the community center and mosque all the more the american media has now involved Iran and Saudi Arabia in the "funding" of it. Good grief is there no end to this tactic of fear and terror?
SUCKERS...All of you
This has been known since day one, you stupid fuck. You need to take a break from here. At this point, I don't think you're capable of making a post without embarrassing yourself.
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This has been known since day one, you stupid fuck. You need to take a break from here. At this point, I don't think you're capable of making a post without embarrassing yourself.
Speaking of SUCKERS...
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HA HA HA HA...THis whole case is now an official sham and some of you idiots fell for it. Now to demonize the community center and mosque all the more the american media has now involved Iran and Saudi Arabia in the "funding" of it. Good grief is there no end to this tactic of fear and terror?
SUCKERS...All of you
With the economy the shape it is in, I can see why Obama and pelosi want to keep this in the news.
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Speaking of SUCKERS...
says the physics expert...
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With the economy the shape it is in, I can see why Obama and pelosi want to keep this in the news.
WHAT?????.... 3 you have finally seen the light!!!!
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This could get ugly. The mosque could be funded in part by a 911 CT nut? Wow.
Ground Zero Mosque Developers Refuse to Rule Out Using Funds From Iran and Ahmadinejad
Thursday, 19 Aug 2010
By: Jim Meyers
The developers of the planned mosque near New York’s ground zero on Wednesday refused to rule out using funds from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s Iran to build the $100 million project.
Mosque spokesman Oz Sultan was asked specifically whether the project’s fundraising would include Iran and Saudi Arabia.
“I can’t comment on that,” was Sultan’s “not-ruling-it-out” reply, the New York Post reported. “We’ll look at all available options within the United States to start.”
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the leader of the Park51 mosque project planned for a site two blocks from ground zero, has told officials he would raise money for the mosque and community center from local Muslims, foundations and the sale of bonds.
But earlier this year he admitted to a London-based Arab newspaper that his fundraising would also extend to Muslim nations around the world. Rauf is now touring the Middle East on behalf of the State Department.
The Post observed: “The possibility of tapping the radical rogue Islamic state of Iran for funds comes as the United States just last month stepped up sanctions on the regime in retaliation for its support of terrorism and what is feared to be an illegal nuclear weapons development program.”
Meanwhile a Siena Research Institute poll released on Wednesday showed that 63 percent of New York State voters now oppose construction of the mosque near ground zero, up from 61 percent two weeks ago.
And a Time magazine survey found that 61 percent of Americans oppose the mosque, with 44 percent agreeing that the project would “be an insult to those who died” in the 9/11 attacks.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Ground--Zero--Mosque--Ahmadinejad/2010/08/19/id/367908
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I posted this yesterday. you can merge the two.
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I posted this yesterday. you can merge the two.
Done. Didn't see. Thanks.
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Anyone who doesn't think that the majority of funding for this mosque is going to come from either Saudi Arabia or Iran is a fool. Both those terrorist states seek to implement Sharia Law across the entire planet (their own versions of it) and this mosque is but a small step in their grand plans.
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Never. I have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo of all calibers, swords, knives, clubs, bats, etc. Even after I am down to the last one, i would never submit. i would have no problem or crisis of conscience dropping nukes, j dams, whatever on these savages.
I would hope i would act like the Italian guy Quatrocchi who spit in the muslims faces before they executed him. Many people don't remember this from 2004, but I did, and will always.
Screw these vermin, every single one of them.
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Italian TV shows 'hero' hostage execution
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/italian-tv-shows-hero-hostage-execution-238738.html
An Italian hostage who told his Iraqi captors ”I will show you how an Italian dies,” seconds before he was shot in the head two years ago was hailed as a hero today as Italians viewed the footage from his execution for the first time.
In the video, released by Rome prosecutors, security guard Fabrizio Quattrocchi, 35, is shown kneeling on the ground with his face covered and hands tied behind his back, seconds before he was killed on April 14, 2004.
Quattrocchi asked his captors to take his hood off, but they refused, to which he replied “I will show you how an Italian dies.”
The video was aired on several television channels. They did not, however, show the moment of the actual execution.
“Quattrocchi died a hero,” Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini was quoted as saying by Italian news agencies. ”Quattrocchi showed those executioners how a man can die with great dignity.”
Quattrocchi and three other Italian men working as private guards in Iraq were kidnapped on April 12, 2004.
Soon after, the captors issued a videotape of Quattrocchi’s execution but it was never aired at the time, according to news reports.
The three others were eventually freed.
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Share:
Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/italian-tv-shows-hero-hostage-execution-238738.html#ixzz0x5NQx6Wa
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Never. I have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo of all calibers, swords, knives, clubs, bats, etc. Even after I am down to the last one, i would never submit. i would have no problem or crisis of conscience dropping nukes, j dams, whatever on these savages.
I would hope i would act like the Italian guy Quatrocchi who spit in the muslims faces before they executed him. Many people don't remember this from 2004, but I did, and will always.
Screw these vermin, every single one of them.
________________________ ________________________ ______________________
Italian TV shows 'hero' hostage execution
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/italian-tv-shows-hero-hostage-execution-238738.html
An Italian hostage who told his Iraqi captors ”I will show you how an Italian dies,” seconds before he was shot in the head two years ago was hailed as a hero today as Italians viewed the footage from his execution for the first time.
In the video, released by Rome prosecutors, security guard Fabrizio Quattrocchi, 35, is shown kneeling on the ground with his face covered and hands tied behind his back, seconds before he was killed on April 14, 2004.
Quattrocchi asked his captors to take his hood off, but they refused, to which he replied “I will show you how an Italian dies.”
The video was aired on several television channels. They did not, however, show the moment of the actual execution.
“Quattrocchi died a hero,” Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini was quoted as saying by Italian news agencies. ”Quattrocchi showed those executioners how a man can die with great dignity.”
Quattrocchi and three other Italian men working as private guards in Iraq were kidnapped on April 12, 2004.
Soon after, the captors issued a videotape of Quattrocchi’s execution but it was never aired at the time, according to news reports.
The three others were eventually freed.
« PreviousNext »
Share:
Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/italian-tv-shows-hero-hostage-execution-238738.html#ixzz0x5NQx6Wa
And people have the audacity to complain about waterboarding these animals. ::)
Major respect for that guy. Western men are 1000x more manly than these Islamist psychopaths.
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The blackens, kc, and others of the world don't remember these stories because they operate on the most ignorant and base level imaginable.
I have hundreds of these stories in my memory and laugh when these scumbags defend the vermin like this imam seeking to exploit situations like this.
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The blackens, kc, and others of the world don't remember these stories because they operate on the most ignorant and base level imaginable.
I have hundreds of these stories in my memory and laugh when these scumbags defend the vermin like this imam seeking to exploit situations like this.
Watch the beheading videos and you'll be filled with nothing but rage and contempt for these scum. Takes a big man to cut someone's head off while they're tied up and being held down by 7 other guys. ::)
The good news is that Rauf would love nothing more than for that to be part of America! Sharia for all!
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This could get ugly. The mosque could be funded in part by a 911 CT nut? Wow.
some of those 911 CTers are pretty hot...
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some of those 911 CTers are pretty hot...
::)
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HA HA HA HA...THis whole case is now an official sham and some of you idiots fell for it. Now to demonize the community center and mosque all the more the american media has now involved Iran and Saudi Arabia in the "funding" of it. Good grief is there no end to this tactic of fear and terror?
SUCKERS...All of you
You know Samson, I sometimes hate agreeing with you because you have such a callous attitude, and I'm not too fond of your continual jabs at Israel, but on this one I truly have to agree. I'm shocked at the way people have allowed themselves to be manipulated so brazenly. The truth is right in front of their eyes, ...yet they're unable to see it, ...only instead responding to the blatantly obvious attempt to manipulate their thoughts. It's wild!!!
The pen truly is mightier than the sword.
Right there in plain english, the spokesperson says they are seeking domestic funding.
Yet the author spins the story to say he won't rule out funding from Iran or Saudi Arabia. WTF?
When questioned on the issue, he clearly stated "I can't comment on that"
Dah! Well of course he can't comment on that. His task was to announce they were seeking domestic sources of funding. Only if there is no domestic funding would the idea of seeking foreign funds even arise, ...but they are not there. Of course he cannot comment.
That's like asking me if 333386 is a pedophile who cannibalizes his victims.
Of course my response would have to truthfully be "I can't comment on that" because I have no knowledge of that. Then blacken comes along and writes an article saying "Jag won't rule out 33386 as being a pedophile & cannibal." Then everyone here starts screaming about 33386 being a pedophile & cannibal.
I'm watching it unfold before my eyes... and I can't believe it... yet i see it happening everyday.
Man oh man being able to control that Reptilian brain is powerful stuff. I guess that's what happens when you have generations of people raised on foods void of proper nutritional components. It impairs their abilities to think clearly.
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They don't have domestic funding for this thing,
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They don't have domestic funding for this thing,
How do you know?
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How do you know?
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and fox news :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
By Raw Story
Saturday, August 21st, 2010 -- 7:02 pm
The second largest shareholder in News Corp. -- the parent company of Fox News -- has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to causes linked to the imam planning to build a Muslim community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan, says a report from Yahoo!News.
According to the report from Yahoo!'s John Cook, Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, who owns seven percent of News Corp., "has directly funded [Imam Feisal Abdul] Rauf's projects to the tune of more than $300,000."
Cook reports that Prince Al-Waleed's personal charity, the Kingdom Foundation, donated $305,000 to Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow, a project sponsored by two of Rauf's initiatives, the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative, which is building the Manhattan mosque.
That Fox News' second-largest shareholder, after Rupert Murdoch, has financial links to the "Ground Zero mosque" will be seen as ironic by critics of the news network, who have watched with chagrin as the network's talking heads attempt to link the mosque to radical Islamism.
Last week, Daily Show host Jon Stewart lambasted Fox panelist Eric Bolling's attempt to link the Cordoba Initiative to Hamas and Iran. Stewart used News Corp.'s connections to Prince Al-Waleed, and the prince's connections to the Carlyle Group and Osama bin Laden to make a tongue-in-cheek argument that Fox News may be a "terrorist command center."
Story continues below...
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"Stewart didn't need to take all those steps to make the connection," Cook writes.
Cook also reports that Prince Al-Waleed has in the past funded a number of Islamic organizations that have been maligned by Fox News commentators:
Al-Waleed donated $500,000 to the Council on American-Islamic Relations — which has been repeatedly denounced on Fox News's air by Geller and others as a terror group — in 2002. Indeed, Rauf's "numerous ties to CAIR" alone have been cited by the mosque's opponents as a justification for imputing terrorist sympathies to him, yet few people seem to be asking whether Murdoch's extensive multi-billion business collaboration with the man who funds both Rauf and CAIR merits investigation or concern.
Other beneficiaries of Al-Waleed's largess include the Islamic Development Bank, a project designed to "foster the economic development and social progress of [Muslims] in accordance with the principles of Shari'ah." The IDB funds the construction of mosques around the world, and has been implicated by frequent Fox News guest Stephen Schwartz in an attempt to spread radical Wahhabism (a fundamentalist branch of Islam) throughout the United States.
Cook notes that it was none other than News Corp.'s New York Post that reported on Prince Al-Waleed's donation to Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow. He reports that Fox News had no comment for his article, and emails to the prince's Kingdom Foundation were not returned.
Prince Al-Waleed owns an estimated $2.5-billion-worth of News Corp. Majority shareholder Rupert Murdoch recently took a stake in the prince's Middle East-based media conglomerate, Rotana Group. Murdoch and Prince Al-Waleed are reportedly working on launching an Arabic news network that will compete with existing pan-Arabic networks Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya.
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Great video by Bob.
And to date, these snakes have only raised $9,000 in the USA for this abomination of a shrine to Islamic supremacism.
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LOL... Bob rocks haha...
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Haliburton sold nuclear technology to Iran (and presumably got paid in dollars or maybe with babies blood) and Rupert Murdoch was glad to take billions of dollars from a Saudi prince to sell part of his propaganda network). In fact that same person, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal
owned/owns almost 15% of Citicorp and made 20 million dollar donation to Harvard in 2009.
Why is it OK for Cheney and Murdoch to take money from Iran and Saudi Arabia?
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Won't Rule Out Taking Funds from Saudi Arabia, Iran
'Ground Zero Mosque' Developers in Talks With NY Gov.
seriously....dont we buy oil from the saudis...if u r attempting to make the " they r helping the terrorists" argument...
when we buy oil from the saudis and make them infinitely rich...are we not helping the terrorists? :-\
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LOL... Bob rocks haha...
This is one of bob's best ever.
I love the end where he calls her a witch.
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great, drunk guy in front of concrete wall,whats this country coming to ??? ???
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great, drunk guy in front of concrete wall,whats this country coming to ??? ???
Bob speaks for far more people that the traitors and failures known as Obama/Pelosi, piss be upon them.
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like i said whats this country coming to ???
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like i said whats this country coming to ???
Obama as Potus and Nancy as SOTH.
With those two running the country, neither of which have worked a day in their lives, we are finished.