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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: flinstones1 on August 25, 2010, 10:31:44 PM
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One more thing I wanted to ask on insulin that I cant seem to get a good understanding on. Understand I am just trying to understand what the role of insulin is in bbing.
- steroids cause insulin resistance .
-dave palumbo reccomends those who are insulin resistant due to aas and gh to use insulin FACT.
- some bodybuilders can not gain weight on AAS without insulin due to insulin resistance but some can.
-different people secrete different amount of insulin. (hardgainers such as ectomorphs secrete less insulin than endomorphs and as a result have a harder time gaining weight. I imagine guys like evan centiaponti secrete insulin to a high degree and maybe dont even use slin. guys like pakumbo or other hardgainers need it.
so my questions are how does one who is without a doubt insulin resistant (just about every bber uses AAS for some amount of time) gain weight without exogenous insulin throughout the years?
however, these are anti insulin i their effects on blood glucose levels. but there wont be any decrease in the effect of the bolus insulin on muscle anabolism. insulin, whether your insulin resistant or metabolicly healthy, is an anabolic hormone. yes it makes sense to use insulin to cure steroid caused insulin resistance (quote from tbombz)
the above quote sounds to me like you are saying yes you will become insulin resistant, but insulin will never stop working as far as what it needs to do (making muscles bigger) and that regardless of a persons insulin sensitivity exogenous will always be effective. or am I totally offbase?
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AAS arent going to make you insulin resistant.. But prolonged heavy doses of growth can
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AAS arent going to make you insulin resistant.. But prolonged heavy doses of growth can
false on many levels. All anabolic steroids will cause insulin resistance. Dave palumbo discusseed this before.
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Role of insulin in bb is to bring your body to a new level without raising your aas dosage to insane levels, guys want to believe that every big guy is on 3-5 grams of combined steroids (which isnt true), serum sickness hits sooner or later and then your at home sweating and twiching...
Who needs it? Guys who have YEARS AND YEARS of heavy aas and hgh use. Do you need it? NO. Are you going to use it? Yes. Are you going to get hurt? I hope not...
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Flinstones, dont trust half the shit dave palumbo says...most of the vets on here know that...its very unlikely your going to become insuling resistant from AAS...but with heavy and prolonged dosages of GH it can definitely happen...
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flinstone let me guarantee you that there is not one insulin resistant pro bodybuilder on the planet. steroids and gh can both cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity. but insulin sensitivity is regulated by many factors. the most important being glycogen levels, and glycogen levels are directly tied into muscle mass. the more muscle you have, the more room for glycogen and the more insulin receptors you have. when your huge and lean, your very very sensitive to insulin. steroids and gh decrease overall sensitivity to insulin, but that doesnt mean they are outweighing all the other contributing factors that determine insulin sensitivity.
why does exogenous insulin work ? there isnt anyone out there who could give you a definite answer, scientific or not. though i have a theory about why it may help massive bodybuilders push passed a platue, i dont see any reason why insulin would be beneficial for your average juice head
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flinstone let me guarantee you that there is not one insulin resistant pro bodybuilder on the planet. steroids and gh can both cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity. but insulin sensitivity is regulated by many factors. the most important being glycogen levels, and glycogen levels are directly tied into muscle mass. the more muscle you have, the more room for glycogen and the more insulin receptors you have. when your huge and lean, your very very sensitive to insulin. steroids and gh decrease overall sensitivity to insulin, but that doesnt mean they are outweighing all the other contributing factors that determine insulin sensitivity.
why does exogenous insulin work ? there isnt anyone out there who could give you a definite answer, scientific or not. though i have a theory about why it may help massive bodybuilders push passed a platue, i dont see any reason why insulin would be beneficial for your average juice head
why is it that my bodyweight went from in the low 160's to starting gear to 190-195 suddenly I can not gain weight to save my life despite eating a caloric surplus. My gear is all legit and pharm grade. I am running 500mg test and 400mg deca and feel very flat. Strength is going up a ton just about every workout but the scale will not move. Close grip bench went up 35 pounds in the past 6 weeks yet my triceps have stayed the same. ::) I was eating massive amounts of carbs prior to this and the only thing I can think of that is going on is insulin resistance. So for me adding insulin is the only way to gain more weight I imagine.
Before I would rn 3 dbol a day and gain 10 pounds of water. Same gear as before.
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Flinstones, dont trust half the shit dave palumbo says...most of the vets on here know that...its very unlikely your going to become insuling resistant from AAS...but with heavy and prolonged dosages of GH it can definitely happen...
ok do you think that diets extremely high in carbs and calories can lead to insulin resistance therfore making anabolic steroids less effective over time?
I just feel like my body isnt responding to the gear like it first did and should.
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You can become insulin resistant just by eatingg like a shit without roids...how many weeks have you been on? If you feel like your not gaining enough mass then mayb your shit is low dosed counterfit shit..
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Theres also a point in your cycle where gains just slow down and its hard to put on more mass...you need to change up your diet, routine, and possibly switch to some different compounds
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Did you take time off between cycles or did you bridge. I assume the receptors are still down and not accepting the new gear. You either need more time off for pct or need to switch the chemicals up for a receptor hit.
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why is it that my bodyweight went from in the low 160's to starting gear to 190-195 suddenly I can not gain weight to save my life despite eating a caloric surplus. My gear is all legit and pharm grade. I am running 500mg test and 400mg deca and feel very flat. Strength is going up a ton just about every workout but the scale will not move. Close grip bench went up 35 pounds in the past 6 weeks yet my triceps have stayed the same. ::) I was eating massive amounts of carbs prior to this and the only thing I can think of that is going on is insulin resistance. So for me adding insulin is the only way to gain more weight I imagine.
Before I would rn 3 dbol a day and gain 10 pounds of water. Same gear as before.
if your strength is going up every workout then your gear is still working and you should still be gaining. what rep range do you train in, how much total volume, whats yoru frequency and how many rest days?
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You can become insulin resistant just by eatingg like a shit without roids...how many weeks have you been on? If you feel like your not gaining enough mass then mayb your shit is low dosed counterfit shit..
well my gear is g2g. I am runninng three different compounds. And they are dosed properly. Even if only one of my products was legit out of the three I still would be gaining something. My strength would never go up this fast naturally.
And yes I was eating alot of shit lol but I went to the doctor and he siad my pancreas was fine and I am not diabetic at all. So can this means I can still have insulin resistance?
tstmaniac do you ever have problems gaining weight despite being on good gear at times?
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Did you take time off between cycles or did you bridge. I assume the receptors are still down and not accepting the new gear. You either need more time off for pct or need to switch the chemicals up for a receptor hit.
I dont take time off. I think one of the problems may be that 500mg test just isnt working anymore but I am running 400mg deca wit it so that should be sufficient.
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if your strength is going up every workout then your gear is still working and you should still be gaining. what rep range do you train in, how much total volume, whats yoru frequency and how many rest days?
I was training one hour per day 5 days per week. Rep range was 10-12. probably eating 3000 cals per day..
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I never have problems gaining weight but gaining 20lbs on the scale is not my goal...i put on very lean muscle mass and try to improve my overall shape and muscle maturity...as of right now im not a bodybuilder but an athlete...dont judge how good your gains are with the scale...judge them by your strength gains and how you look in the mirror
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Also you would know if your insulin resistant by how high your glucose levels are...unless you have extremely high glucose after 12 hours of fasting then you hav nothing to worry about..
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I was training one hour per day 5 days per week. Rep range was 10-12. probably eating 3000 cals per day..
3 thousand calories per day is probably your issue. how long have you been at that calorie level? when you gain muscle, your basal metabolic rate increases, so you need more just to maintain. increase your carbs and fats, try using extra virgin olive oil and other sources of monounsaturated fats, they are great msucle building calories that arent as easy as other fats to be stored as fat.
5 days a week is quite a bit. thats only 2 days off per week. and youll be training 3 days in a row at best. possibly 5 days in a row. i dont like that too much. if you can, id take a day of rest inbetween every day of lifting (and if you can do that, then youll probably need to create a 3 day split so youll still work out everybody part aroudn once per week. ) do you base your days in the gym on a weekly schedule, ex: mon=chest, tues=back..ect ?? you shouldnt schedule your workouts according to the calendar, but by how recovered your muscles feel. dont train if you dont feel recovered (strength is down, muscle is sore..). 10-12 reps is alright, but you should make sure your consistantly doing sets in the 5-8 rep range, especially for upper body. lower body you can do some sets as high as 20 (or more). fast twitch muscle ffibers are used for reps above 12 and dont respond very well to growth stimuli(training). slow twitch muscle fibers are used for 1-12 rep range. theres two groups of slow twitch fibers, (type a: 1-5 reps) and (type b: 6-12 reps). slow twitch fibers respond well to training, type B better than type A. so it makes sense to train mostly in the 6-12 rep range. but dont neglect the other two fiber types, 1-5 reps and above 12 reps too. these rep ranges are assuming good form, remember, keep the weight in the muscle, and out of the joints.
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I dont understand how people cannot be satisfied with aas.. and have to use shit like insulin.. unless competing of course.. If you wanna be very big, just use 2g+ of gear ew.. if you're not getting fucking big and strong on that, fix something because insulin alone isnt gonna help you.. btw fyi, 3000calories is not enough to grow..get 4000+cals and 300+prot with good aas and you will grow..trust me.. insulin resistance my ass
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test deca dbol gh at super high doses and you will have no problems growing.
all legit of course
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One more thing I wanted to ask on insulin that I cant seem to get a good understanding on. Understand I am just trying to understand what the role of insulin is in bbing.
- steroids cause insulin resistance .
-dave palumbo reccomends those who are insulin resistant due to aas and gh to use insulin FACT.
- some bodybuilders can not gain weight on AAS without insulin due to insulin resistance but some can.
-different people secrete different amount of insulin. (hardgainers such as ectomorphs secrete less insulin than endomorphs and as a result have a harder time gaining weight. I imagine guys like evan centiaponti secrete insulin to a high degree and maybe dont even use slin. guys like pakumbo or other hardgainers need it.
so my questions are how does one who is without a doubt insulin resistant (just about every bber uses AAS for some amount of time) gain weight without exogenous insulin throughout the years?
however, these are anti insulin i their effects on blood glucose levels. but there wont be any decrease in the effect of the bolus insulin on muscle anabolism. insulin, whether your insulin resistant or metabolicly healthy, is an anabolic hormone. yes it makes sense to use insulin to cure steroid caused insulin resistance (quote from tbombz)
the above quote sounds to me like you are saying yes you will become insulin resistant, but insulin will never stop working as far as what it needs to do (making muscles bigger) and that regardless of a persons insulin sensitivity exogenous will always be effective. or am I totally offbase?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ERGGqjxpb__FLM:http://trueslant.com/daviddisalvo/files/2009/09/brain-explosion.jpg&t=1)
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Flinstones, dont trust half the shit dave palumbo says...most of the vets on here know that...its very unlikely your going to become insuling resistant from AAS...but with heavy and prolonged dosages of GH it can definitely happen...
Most of the "Vets" on here are internet bodybuilders that never leave the confines of their keyboard and armchair. "Vet" doesn't mean shit in the internet bodybuilding world of "Bro" science. Dave Palumbo may not always be right but he's used his body as a literal walking chemistry experiment and has a good bit of academic education in the sciences. Didn't he go to med school? The guy isn't an idiot despite what many think of him.
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Most of the guys i know with experience think his info isnt all that great.have you read his columns in muscular development?..im sure flinstones isnt paying him for advice thats why i said that...im sure if your paying him ur gettin much better information
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insulin can be great but just insulin won't do anything, I mean you won't get more muscle with insulin. But insulin may help you eat more and increase your calories.
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3 thousand calories per day is probably your issue. how long have you been at that calorie level? when you gain muscle, your basal metabolic rate increases, so you need more just to maintain. increase your carbs and fats, try using extra virgin olive oil and other sources of monounsaturated fats, they are great msucle building calories that arent as easy as other fats to be stored as fat.
5 days a week is quite a bit. thats only 2 days off per week. and youll be training 3 days in a row at best. possibly 5 days in a row. i dont like that too much. if you can, id take a day of rest inbetween every day of lifting (and if you can do that, then youll probably need to create a 3 day split so youll still work out everybody part aroudn once per week. ) do you base your days in the gym on a weekly schedule, ex: mon=chest, tues=back..ect ?? you shouldnt schedule your workouts according to the calendar, but by how recovered your muscles feel. dont train if you dont feel recovered (strength is down, muscle is sore..). 10-12 reps is alright, but you should make sure your consistantly doing sets in the 5-8 rep range, especially for upper body. lower body you can do some sets as high as 20 (or more). fast twitch muscle ffibers are used for reps above 12 and dont respond very well to growth stimuli(training). slow twitch muscle fibers are used for 1-12 rep range. theres two groups of slow twitch fibers, (type a: 1-5 reps) and (type b: 6-12 reps). slow twitch fibers respond well to training, type B better than type A. so it makes sense to train mostly in the 6-12 rep range. but dont neglect the other two fiber types, 1-5 reps and above 12 reps too. these rep ranges are assuming good form, remember, keep the weight in the muscle, and out of the joints.
u got ur muscle fiber info all mixed up bro. ;)
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3 thousand calories per day is probably your issue. how long have you been at that calorie level? when you gain muscle, your basal metabolic rate increases, so you need more just to maintain. increase your carbs and fats, try using extra virgin olive oil and other sources of monounsaturated fats, they are great msucle building calories that arent as easy as other fats to be stored as fat.
5 days a week is quite a bit. thats only 2 days off per week. and youll be training 3 days in a row at best. possibly 5 days in a row. i dont like that too much. if you can, id take a day of rest inbetween every day of lifting (and if you can do that, then youll probably need to create a 3 day split so youll still work out everybody part aroudn once per week. ) do you base your days in the gym on a weekly schedule, ex: mon=chest, tues=back..ect ?? you shouldnt schedule your workouts according to the calendar, but by how recovered your muscles feel. dont train if you dont feel recovered (strength is down, muscle is sore..). 10-12 reps is alright, but you should make sure your consistantly doing sets in the 5-8 rep range, especially for upper body. lower body you can do some sets as high as 20 (or more). fast twitch muscle ffibers are used for reps above 12 and dont respond very well to growth stimuli(training). slow twitch muscle fibers are used for 1-12 rep range. theres two groups of slow twitch fibers, (type a: 1-5 reps) and (type b: 6-12 reps). slow twitch fibers respond well to training, type B better than type A. so it makes sense to train mostly in the 6-12 rep range. but dont neglect the other two fiber types, 1-5 reps and above 12 reps too. these rep ranges are assuming good form, remember, keep the weight in the muscle, and out of the joints.
I didnt know that about training with lower reps I always though higher reps are what builds muscle mainly I was doing 12-15 reps for all excercises and 10 at the very least. This makes it much harder to use heavier weights because I have to keep my reps so high. I will go for 6 reps. I am also upping my test dose from 500mg. The most dbol I have taken in around 35mg I read that dbol stops gettting more effective past 40mg I dont know if that is true or not when it comes to human grade I will try it maybe.
As far as volume is concerned I think I will do a three way split like DC.
Monday is chest shoulders and triceps
Wedsday is back biceps legs and forarms
wedsday is chest shoulders triceps
then monday back biceps legs and forarms
I dont like rest pausing but I will do 3 sets of 6 reps per each excercise with heavy weight.
Also I cant eat over 3000 calories without puking. Went out and bought some more whey isolate with ultrafuel and will add two of those shakes per day.
Tbombz I remember you writing that shakes are actually bettter for growth than whole food but most have said the opposite. Can you explain why?
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im not too sure what your trianing split is. you will train everything twice a week and do 3 sets each muscle, each workout? make sure your making good progress, strength and size. every week you should be stronger and bigger. if your not, somethings wrong. most likely right now its your calorie intake that has caused you to stop gaining. in fatc, i can guarantee it. if you have trouble getting down food... then shakes aree a great option. and that is specifically why i said i thought shakes were better when looking to add mass - because they are more easily digested and easier to get down than whole food. not just protein shake though, pour in a bunch of carbs too. get some maltodextrin or dextrose powder in bulk, its like 3 bucks a pound. start by adding in a few scoops of carbs to some shakes in addition to what your already eating. if your gains dont pick up, add a little more. you can add in some more fats too if the extra carbs arent doing it. pouring a tablespoon or two of some olive oil into your shakes would be a very easy way to get extra calories.
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"Humalog in this instance can be ideal “savior” as it would shuttle glucose as it comes, never allowing BG level to go too high and save beta cells from over producing endogenous insulin. " Milos
assuming this is true when it comes to post workout nutrition and consuming refined carbs like dextrose, and assuming it does have the potential to ward off diabetes, would humalog be superior to humalin-R in this regard?
correct me if I am wrong but it seems humalin-R will take too long to start working so it never really relieves the pancreas of anything when consuming simple carbs right after a workout. Or will it?
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humalog is faster than humalin r. yes.
milos doesnt have any science to prove what hes saying, hes just theorizing. and insulin is not a savior. this game is about progressive overload and caloric excess/defecit depending on bulking/cutting. steroids help facilitate that process, but thats it. dont overthink this thing flinstone, its all about consistancy. its much more important that you stay on a decent dose of juice for the next few years and stay in the gym making sure that you getting stronger every week and of course meeting your basic protein/calorie requirements. building a huge body takes years, theres no drugs to shortcut that. even jay cutler took almost a decade of juicing and training before he was any kind of a pro bodybuilder.
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Low reps and heavy weight does not necessarily build more muscle vs. high reps and moderate weight. This is urban legend bro science bullshit. In fact there was a new study that just came out touting the muscle building effects of using higher reps and lower weight. Don't ask me I can't remember where I read it. Bottomline is there isn't one best way to train if you are a bodybuilder. You've got to change things up as soon as your body adapts. The best bodybuilders incorporate all aspects of training dogma. Low reps, hit, abbreviated, high reps, etc. To say one way is the best way to train for a certain individual is ignorant of basic muscle and human physiology.
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Low reps and heavy weight does not necessarily build more muscle vs. high reps and moderate weight. This is urban legend bro science bullshit. In fact there was a new study that just came out touting the muscle building effects of using higher reps and lower weight. Don't ask me I can't remember where I read it. Bottomline is there isn't one best way to train if you are a bodybuilder. You've got to change things up as soon as your body adapts. The best bodybuilders incorporate all aspects of training dogma. Low reps, hit, abbreviated, high reps, etc. To say one way is the best way to train for a certain individual is ignorant of basic muscle and human physiology.
here is what is isnt broscience, and does apply to everyone, and it is most definitely the best way to train.
grab a weight that is about 80-90% of 1 rpm, and do 3-5 sets with it. you should be able to get at least 2 reps in every set and no more than 5 reps in any set. keep using this same amount of weight and keep doing the same number of total sets in every workout. once you have built up enough strength to lift that weight for at least 8 reps in every set, increase the amount of weight so you can only do 2-5 reps for however many sets you had been doing previouisly. keep using the new, heavier weight untill you once again have built up your strength to the point where you can use the weight for at least 8 reps, blah blah blah
progressive overload coupled with sufficient rest and adequate frequency
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here is what is isnt broscience, and does apply to everyone, and it is most definitely the best way to train.
grab a weight that is about 80-90% of 1 rpm, and do 3-5 sets with it. you should be able to get at least 2 reps in every set and no more than 5 reps in any set. keep using this same amount of weight and keep doing the same number of total sets in every workout. once you have built up enough strength to lift that weight for at least 8 reps in every set, increase the amount of weight so you can only do 2-5 reps for however many sets you had been doing previouisly. keep using the new, heavier weight untill you once again have built up your strength to the point where you can use the weight for at least 8 reps, blah blah blah
progressive overload coupled with sufficient rest and adequate frequency
Been training in a similar way for years. Rep range from 4-6. Works very well. Using a 5x5 method now and that works well also.
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Been training in a similar way for years. Rep range from 4-6. Works very well. Using a 5x5 method now and that works well also.
Sounds like a combination of rest pause, german volume and old school mentzer...
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progressive overload is the only way to grow! juice or no juice. stick with one weight untill you can rep it too many times, then make a big leap up in weight to something you can only rep a couple times, and stick with that new weight untill you can rep it too many times. real simple idea, pretty much common sense, yet so many people are so lost and confused when it comes to training. people lifting the same amount of weight for months, years, never getting stronger, never getting any bigger.
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Sounds like overtraining and under eating.
If you can't eat enough to support over 190 lbs
at the dosages you're then maybe bodybuilding isn't the right sport for you.
No offense intended though, it may take some time off
to help break past your current weight set point.
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Low reps and heavy weight does not necessarily build more muscle vs. high reps and moderate weight. This is urban legend bro science bullshit. In fact there was a new study that just came out touting the muscle building effects of using higher reps and lower weight. Don't ask me I can't remember where I read it. Bottomline is there isn't one best way to train if you are a bodybuilder. You've got to change things up as soon as your body adapts. The best bodybuilders incorporate all aspects of training dogma. Low reps, hit, abbreviated, high reps, etc. To say one way is the best way to train for a certain individual is ignorant of basic muscle and human physiology.
Right, wouldn't you want to constanly change things up?