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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 12, 2010, 04:44:56 AM
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Obama: We knew health costs would go up
By Mike Lillis - 09/10/10 01:19 PM ET
WWW.THEHILL.COM
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President Obama on Friday defended the Democrats' healthcare law, saying the enormous expansion of insurance coverage made an increase in healthcare spending inevitable.
"As a consequence of us getting 30 million additional people healthcare, at the margins that's going to increase our costs — we knew that," the president told reporters during a White House press conference.
"We didn't think that we were going to cover 30 million people for free."
Obama was responding to questions about new cost projections, crunched by economists at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), revealing the nation's healthcare spending, as a share of the economy, will be 0.3 percentage points higher in 2019 than estimated before the law was passed.
That CMS report, published Thursday in the journal Health Affairs, also revealed healthcare spending will grow by an average of 6.3 percent each year over the next decade, whereas pre-reform projections pegged annual growth at 6.1 percent.
Republicans have latched onto the figures as evidence that the new reform law has failed in one of its central purposes: to bend the health cost curve down to sustainable levels.
But Obama rejected those criticisms, arguing his pitch for reform included warning that the process would be a long one.
"I said at the time it wasn't going to happen tomorrow, it wasn't going to happen next year," Obama said. "It took us decades to get into a position where our health care costs were going up 6, 7, 10 percent a year. And so our goal is to slowly bring down those costs."
Obama has at least one statistic working in his favor: CMS says the annual rise in health spending between 2015 and 2019 — after the enormous insurance expansion of 2014 — will average less than the agency estimated pre-reform.
It's not as low as he wants, Obama said Friday. But it's getting there.
"If we can get — instead of healthcare costs going up 6 percent a year — it's going up at the level of inflation, maybe just slightly above inflation, we've made huge progress," he said.
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The lies this asshole tells by the day are getting worse.
My question is - who is worse - the lying sack of shit Obama, or those who still believe his daily lie machine?
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what a lying pofs...can one of his groupies give us one clip or quote of him saying that the health care bill is going to increase the costs of health care?
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what a lying pofs...can one of his groupies give us one clip or quote of him saying that the health care bill is going to increase the costs of health care?
He said premiuims would drop by 2500 a year for a average family.
The lies this man tells on a minute by minute basis are getting hard to keep track of.
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More lies.
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what a lying pofs...can one of his groupies give us one clip or quote of him saying that the health care bill is going to increase the costs of health care?
Another thing, people like Hugo, 240, t al scream about there being so many islam related stories on the board, yet when I post stuff like this, they are nowhere to be found and are themselves postinmg on the islam related stories.
Go figure.
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Another thing, people like Hugo, 240, t al scream about there being so many islam related stories on the board, yet when I post stuff like this, they are nowhere to be found and are themselves postinmg on the islam related stories.
Go figure.
Hahaha, no shit. Your threads about the economy only get posts from the same people, none of whom are kneepadding, Obama splooge drinkers, and then they cry about another political topic getting all the posts. I guess leftists aren't capable of multi-tasking.
As for this, this healthcare plan is a perfect example of "destroy, rebuild and enslave".
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We have Straw Man posting a thread that applies him and the far left and he is too idealogically committed to the "prgoressive" agenda to realize it.
240 still brings up palin every time he can.
Hugo just melts down like the witch in the Wizard of Oz.
Blacken cant formulate an argument beyond posting youtube clips from DU.
Mons is still on the 911 CT's
and on and on and on.
Yet, when reality is reported as to the things actually occuring in bills and laws that have already passed, they are silent.
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He said premiuims would drop by 2500 a year for a average family.
The lies this man tells on a minute by minute basis are getting hard to keep track of.
Just so we are clear on this, health care premiums and health care costs are two completely different things.
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We have Straw Man posting a thread that applies him and the far left and he is too idealogically committed to the "prgoressive" agenda to realize it.
240 still brings up palin every time he can.
Hugo just melts down like the witch in the Wizard of Oz.
Blacken cant formulate an argument beyond posting youtube clips from DU.
Mons is still on the 911 CT's
and on and on and on.
Yet, when reality is reported as to the things actually occuring in bills and laws that have already passed, they are silent.
Can't speak for Straw, 240, Blacken, Mons, Hugo or anyone else, but I can tell you that cursing & screaming won't do a thing to affect the change that necessary. The course has been set, and the outcome inevitable. what has yet to be determined is it's impact on our lives... which is entirely in our control. Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Don't scream about the coming storm, ...learn how to dance in the rain!
Personally, I think rather than screaming what a horrible pofs Obama is, ... you should be thanking him.
He has given you the greatest financial opportunity of the last 75 years if you know how to take advantage of it. We have never seen this type of opportunity, ...and we have the benefit of the 1929 crash to guide us. In a lifetime of chances, ...what we have in front of us is the chance of a lifetime!
"If you can't make money in this economy, ...you won't make any money in a robust economy"
~~Donald Trump
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September 13, 2010
Gangster Government Stifles Criticism of Obamacare
By Michael Barone
www.realclearpolitics.co m
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"There will be zero tolerance for this type of misinformation and unjustified rate increases."
That sounds like a stern headmistress dressing down some sophomores who have been misbehaving. But it's actually from a letter sent Thursday from Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans -- the chief lobbyist for private health insurance companies.
Sebelius objects to claims by health insurers that they are raising premiums because of increased costs imposed by the Obamacare law passed by Congress last March.
She acknowledges that many of the law's "key protections" take effect later this month and does not deny that these impose additional costs on insurers. But she says that "according to our analysis and those of some industry and academic experts, any potential premium impact ... will be minimal."
Well, that's reassuring. Er, except that if that's the conclusion of "some" industry and academic experts, it's presumably not the conclusion of all industry and academic experts, or the secretary would have said so.
Sebelius also argues that "any premium increases will be moderated by out-of-pocket savings resulting from the law." But she's pretty vague about the numbers -- "up to $1 billion in 2013." Anyone who watches TV ads knows that "up to" can mean zero.
As Time magazine's Karen Pickert points out, Sebelius ignores the fact that individual insurance plans cover different types of populations. So that government and "some" industry and academic experts think the new law will justify increases averaging 1 percent or 2 percent, they could justify much larger increases for certain plans.
Or as Ignagni, the recipient of the letter, says, "It's a basic law of economics that additional benefits incur additional costs."
But Sebelius has "zero tolerance" for that kind of thing. She promises to issue regulations to require "state or federal review of all potentially unreasonable rate increases" (which would presumably mean all rate increases).
And there's a threat. "We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded from health insurance Exchanges in 2014."
That's a significant date, the first year in which state insurance exchanges are slated to get a monopoly on the issuance of individual health insurance policies. Sebelius is threatening to put health insurers out of business in a substantial portion of the market if they state that Obamacare is boosting their costs.
"Congress shall make no law," reads the First Amendment, "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press."
Sebelius' approach is different: "zero tolerance" for dissent.
The threat to use government regulation to destroy or harm someone's business because they disagree with government officials is thuggery. Like the Obama administration's transfer of money from Chrysler bondholders to its political allies in the United Auto Workers, it is a form of gangster government.
"The rule of law, or the rule of men (women)?" economist Tyler Cowen asks on his marginalrevolution.com blog. As he notes, "Nowhere is it stated that these rate hikes are against the law (even if you think they should be), nor can this 'misinformation' be against the law."
According to Politico, not a single Democratic candidate for Congress has run an ad since last April that makes any positive reference to Obamacare. The First Amendment gives candidates the right to talk -- or not talk -- about any issue they want.
But that is not enough for Sebelius and the Obama administration. They want to stamp out negative speech about Obamacare. "Zero tolerance" means they are ready to use the powers of government to threaten economic harm on those who dissent.
The closing paragraph of Sebelius's letter to AHIP's Karen Ignagni gives the game away. "We worked hard to change the system to help consumers." This is a reminder that the administration alternatively collaborated with and criticized Ignagni's organization. We roughed you up a little, but we eventually made a deal.
The secretary goes on: "It is my hope we can work together to stop misinformation and misleading marketing from the start." In other words, shut your members up and play team ball -- or my guys with the baseball bats and Tommy guns are going to get busy. As Cowen puts it, "worse than I had been expecting."
Copyright 2010, Creators Syndicate Inc.
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The incompetent hacks Obama and the rest of the kneepadding sycophants are already in 24/7 damage control over the effects of this horrific bill.
Good job fools.
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More lies.
GMAFB you stupid libs, the messages and promises made in this video are very clear. It is obvious he lied about it and now admits what the rest of us knew from Day 1.
Hey Straw - why don't you go re-read your thread - it aptly applies to you perfectly.
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BUMP
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Really. People are actually saying that Obama said costs would go up when pushing this? LOL.
And I've got a bridge to sell you.
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Really. People are actually saying that Obama said costs would go up when pushing this? LOL.
And I've got a bridge to sell you.
Yes, that is the latest excuse and kneepadding.
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Just so we are clear on this, health care premiums and health care costs are two completely different things.
Obama said, countless times, his congress said, countless times, this health care bill would save money across the board, lower all cost, save Americans money, put money back in Americans pockets, etc.
Most people didn't believe this because most people understand 2+2 will always equal 4. However Robert Gibbs announced this morning that 2+2 did now in-fact equal 5 and by the time the mid-term elections get here they hope to have it equal 7. Gibbs went on to say that by January, 2+2 would in fact equal potato.
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Just so we are clear on this, health care premiums and health care costs are two completely different things.
Just so that we are clear on this, premiums increase as health care costs increase. Obama promised that premiums would not increase.
Or are you that naive to believe that insurance companies will not pass the increase in costs to their policyholders?
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Obama said, countless times, his congress said, countless times, this health care bill would save money across the board, lower all cost, save Americans money, put money back in Americans pockets, etc.
Most people didn't believe this because most people understand 2+2 will always equal 4. However Robert Gibbs announced this morning that 2+2 did now in-fact equal 5 and by the time the mid-term elections get here they hope to have it equal 7. Gibbs went on to say that by January, 2+2 would in fact equal potato.
None of this matters to the typical Obama nut.
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Just so that we are clear on this, premiums increase as health care costs increase. Obama promised that premiums would not increase.
Or are you that naive to believe that insuranse companies will not pass the increase in costs to their policyholders?
Read my article above. The govt is now threatening the carriers from explaining rate hikes.
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Obama clearly states here that COSTS and PREMIUMS will decrease. He is so smart that he says employers would see their premiums decrease by 3000%.Did anyone remember that gaffe? Somehow Libs considered Bush stupid, but Obama a genius.
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Obama clearly states here that COSTS and PREMIUMS will decrease. He is so smart that he says employers would see their premiums decrease by 3000%.Did anyone remember that gaffe? Somehow Libs considered Bush stupid, but Obama a genius.
Dear God was that bad.
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obama's ardent supporters - 40% of americans - are gonna love him no matter how many lies he tells.
Anyone disagree there?
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obama's ardent supporters - 40% of americans - are gonna love him no matter how many lies he tells.
Anyone disagree there?
i DISAGREE!!He has no where near 40% of Americans supporting him.Thats why Hilary will challenge him and that will be made obvious.He has the far leftist radicals supporting him.Id say 15% of the country.
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i DISAGREE!!He has no where near 40% of Americans supporting him.Thats why Hilary will challenge him and that will be made obvious.He has the far leftist radicals supporting him.Id say 15% of the country.
40% of americans are going to vote dem if you run John Wilkes Booth.
40% of americans are going to vote repub if you run a 50-IQ moron. (again)
it's the middle 20% that decide every election. So it's good to point out obama's lies to them. But you're not gonna win the "O" crowd, the same way Palin will get her votes no matter how many snafus she has.
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Obama clearly states here that COSTS and PREMIUMS will decrease. He is so smart that he says employers would see their premiums decrease by 3000%.Did anyone remember that gaffe? Somehow Libs considered Bush stupid, but Obama a genius.
Dang. Anyone running a good campaign for 2012 is going to have a lot of material.
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40% of americans are going to vote dem if you run John Wilkes Booth.
40% of americans are going to vote repub if you run a 50-IQ moron. (again)
it's the middle 20% that decide every election.
I've only said this about 50 times on the board. Except without the hyperbole.
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Just so we are clear on this, health care premiums and health care costs are two completely different things.
jag watch some of the video clips of obama talking about this and tell me whether you refers to cost of health care for families and individuals as going up or down? ::) ::) ::)
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Chief Medicare Actuary: White House Health Savings Estimates 'Not Meaningful,' Give Inaccurate Picture
WWW.HUFFINGTONPOST.COM
RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR | 09/13/10 09:27 PM |
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WASHINGTON — When a government report found that President Barack Obama's health overhaul would modestly raise the nation's total health care tab, the White House responded with a statistic suggesting costs would go down. It turns out that may be fuzzy math.
Health reform director Nancy-Ann DeParle wrote on the White House blog last week that the same government report indicates spending per insured person will be more than $1,000 lower in 2019 because of the law – some 9 percent below previous projections.
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EDITOR'S NOTE – An occasional look at assertions by public officials and how well they adhere to the facts
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"The act will make health care more affordable for Americans," DeParle said.
But the head of the nonpartisan economic unit at Medicare that produced the original cost report says the White House number "does not provide a meaningful or accurate indication" of the effect of the health care law.
"The amounts quoted in the White House blog are not meaningful and cannot be used to calculate the change in health expenditures per insured person," Richard Foster, Medicare's chief actuary, told The Associated Press.
The Obama administration stands by its statistic.
It's a dispute about numbers and how they're bandied about by powerful people in Washington.
But you don't need an economics degree to follow this one. All you have to do is remember your fractions.
The health care law expands coverage, reducing the number of uninsured by more than 32 million, although about 24 million will remain without coverage.
Still, the share of the population with insurance will go up by nearly 10 percentage points, to about 93 percent. And that makes a difference in the numbers.
If you divide total national health care spending by a bigger number of insured people, you get a smaller per-person result.
It's an interesting statistic, but it doesn't mean the problem of rising costs is solved.
"It's not that it's false, it's just that it will be a little misleading," John Allen Paulos, a mathematics professor at Temple University in Philadelphia, said of the White House number, calling it an "apples-to-oranges miscomparison."
Consider an imaginary country with just three citizens, Peter, Paul and Mary. Peter has health coverage but Paul and Mary are uninsured. Peter spends $1,000 on health care, but Paul and Mary can only afford $500 apiece because they lack coverage. Total national spending: $2,000. National spending per insured person: $2,000.
Now suppose a law gets passed to expand coverage. Paul gets insurance, but Mary remains uninsured. Now Peter and Paul are spending $1,000 apiece. Paul spends more than when he was uninsured, so total national health spending goes up to $2,500.
But because more people are covered, spending per insured person goes down to $1,250.
It's a simplistic comparison, but would you call that a savings?
Paulos said it would make more sense to first figure out the share of total national health care spending by people with health insurance, and then divide that result by the number of insured people – before and after the health care law.
The government hasn't run that calculation.
Richard Kronick, a senior Health and Human Services official, said the Obama administration disagrees that its number is misleading.
"There are a number of ways to evaluate health care spending and the new law," said Kronick. "Examining spending on each individual with health insurance is one useful data point."
National health care spending is a kitchen-sink statistic that includes personal health costs of the insured as well as the uninsured, and such categories as research and development and medical infrastructure. In 2019, when the overhaul is fully phased in, the tab will be $4.6 trillion.
Foster says it's acceptable to divide the number by the total U.S. population. In that case, per capita spending would $13,652 as a result of the law, and $13,387 without it.
The difference: just $265 per person more.
Paulos, the mathematician, said that sounds like a bargain to him. "It's a relatively small cost given that 30 million more people will be covered," he said. "You don't really need this kind of apples to oranges miscomparison