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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Slapper on September 23, 2010, 07:50:11 AM
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Even though, between 2009 and 2010, the unemployment rate went from 8 to 10% (http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemploymentl), poverty levels went up 1.1% (http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/income_wealth/cb10-144.html), foreclosures are at an all-time high (http://www.ibtimes.com/contents/20100916/us-home-foreclosures-on-all-time-high.htm), according to Forbes magazine, the richest 400 people in the US made a nice 8% profit (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130052776) this past year.
Who yo dadde?!
It sure pays to be rich!
(http://www.topnews.in/files/Warren-Buffett1.jpg)
Fuck you remaining 99.9999999% of Americans!
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Yeah we know the rich are evil ::)
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Even though, between 2009 and 2010, the unemployment rate went from 8 to 10% (http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemploymentl), poverty levels went up 1.1% (http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/income_wealth/cb10-144.html), foreclosures are at an all-time high (http://www.ibtimes.com/contents/20100916/us-home-foreclosures-on-all-time-high.htm), according to Forbes magazine, the richest 400 people in the US made a nice 8% profit (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130052776) this past year.
Who yo dadde?!
It sure pays to be rich!
(http://www.topnews.in/files/Warren-Buffett1.jpg)
Fuck you remaining 99.9999999% of Americans!
yet you mocked my Peasant thread? Go figure .
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Maybe Obama should get some of that .00000001% of the population to be on his financial team, they seem to be doing OK
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So what. They were smart enough to make a profit despite Obama destroying what was left of the economy.
Stoking class warfare is stupid. Let me know when a poor person gives you a job. Punishing success and redistributing wealth is not going to get this economy moving again. Cutting government spending, getting rid of social programs that cause people to depend on the government, encouraging entrepreneurship and helping small businesses to grow is what will aid the recovery.
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So what. They were smart enough to make a profit despite Obama destroying what was left of the economy.
Stoking class warfare is stupid. Let me know when a poor person gives you a job. Punishing success and redistributing wealth is not going to get this economy moving again. Cutting government spending, getting rid of social programs that cause people to depend on the government, encouraging entrepreneurship and helping small businesses to grow is what will aid the recovery.
Stop making sense, your going to confuse the left
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(http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/336240.full.gif)
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An image is worth a thousand words:
(http://www.scottgoold.org/images/issues/comp_time.gif)
(http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2008/6/26/saupload_the_top_1_pct.jpg)
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Yeah we know the rich are evil ::)
Hey, if you look at it that way Hitler was not evil.
He didn't do anything to me, so I don't know what people are talking about.
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So what. They were smart enough to make a profit despite Obama destroying what was left of the economy.
Stoking class warfare is stupid. Let me know when a poor person gives you a job. Punishing success and redistributing wealth is not going to get this economy moving again. Cutting government spending, getting rid of social programs that cause people to depend on the government, encouraging entrepreneurship and helping small businesses to grow is what will aid the recovery.
I think it is safe to say that an economic system, regardless of part in power, that distributes income in such an unequal way (the middle class is getting destroyed) has to be changed.
Yes, it may have worked for many years, but it sure as hell is not working now.
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Hey, if you look at it that way Hitler was not evil.
He didn't do anything to me, so I don't know what people are talking about.
So what exactly are the rich doing that is comparable to Nazi Germany?
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So what exactly are the rich doing that is comparable to Nazi Germany?
My goal (to become rich / to create the master race) justifies the means (destroy America's middle class / killing millions of people).
It goes without saying that if economic system A distributes income in such a way that 10% of the population ends up with 90% of the riches, the system itself needs changing, not the population.
It is clear that in order for that 10% to make more money, that money has to come from somewhere, and the graphs show that that money usually comes from the middle and lower classes. You don't necessarily have to be brazen and lower your employees' salary. It's usually done in way more subtle ways, like massive layoffs, lobbying for tax credits from the local, state or/and federal governments or, when all fails, infiltrate the government and run it on a deficit (which republicans do very well,) which usually entail tax refunds galore for everyone, although the top 10% ALWAYS get the biggest chunk.
Note that when you run the government on a "credit card" (even though you have money in the bank and already owe a shitload of money in credit card bills) you're actively flipping the bill onto the following generations, who had nothing to do with your shopping spree. And, of course, it get uglier still. So, if you ask me, they're worst than Hitler, because Hitler had the decency to pick up a gun and commit suicide. Therse ASSHOLES have no guilt trips whatsoever, even though they're tearing the nation to shreds.
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My goal (to become rich / to create the master race) justifies the means (destroy America's middle class / killing millions of people).
It goes without saying that if economic system A distributes income in such a way that 10% of the population ends up with 90% of the riches, the system itself needs changing, not the population.
So in Slappers' world, what would you do to change this?
In my mind, my belief is that we reward the financial sector far too much while hammering the producting manufacturing sector far too much.
We need to bring back manufacturing, industrial policies, and the fact that we need to make the things we consume first and foremost, not hit eveery company with EPA regs, OSHA craziness, etc etc. sure we need safety standards and and protect against abuse, but we simply can't have an economy where people who don't go to college have no choice but welfare. thats' crazy.
If it means re-visiting trade deals like GAT, NAFTA, etc so be it. but to me, the fact that we don't push far more production and industrial policies is one of the reasons for our problems.
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So in Slappers' world, what would you do to change this?
In my mind, my belief is that we reward the financial sector far too much while hammering the producting manufacturing sector far too much.
We need to bring back manufacturing, industrial policies, and the fact that we need to make the things we consume first and foremost, not hit eveery company with EPA regs, OSHA craziness, etc etc. sure we need safety standards and and protect against abuse, but we simply can't have an economy where people who don't go to college have no choice but welfare. thats' crazy.
If it means re-visiting trade deals like GAT, NAFTA, etc so be it. but to me, the fact that we don't push far more production and industrial policies is one of the reasons for our problems.
Well, like you said, we need to prop up the manufacturing sector NOW. Secondly, we need to protect our products and put a top to this outsourcing crap.
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So basically the government run amok has set the stage for this with all their nonsensical actions.
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So basically the government run amok has set the stage for this with all their nonsensical actions.
YES! The plaintiff's trial bar, Qui Tam lawsuits on behalf of enviro laws, class action crap, insane Workers Comp regas, HR lawsuits, EEOC, DOL, and endless reg after reg after reg, etc etc etc,
Have all made it so that making anything here is simply not worth it when you can make it in China or other places and not deal with such bullshit.
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YES! The plaintiff's trial bar, Qui Tam lawsuits on behalf of enviro laws, class action crap, insane Workers Comp regas, HR lawsuits, EEOC, DOL, and endless reg after reg after reg, etc etc etc,
Have all made it so that making anything here is simply not worth it when you can make it in China or other places and not deal with such bullshit.
True except you get an inferior product, sometimes toxic. The sad thing is that it is still cheaper to make a product in china and have it shipped the US than it is to make the product here.
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True except you get an inferior product, sometimes toxic. The sad thing is that it is still cheaper to make a product in china and have it shipped the US than it is to make the product here.
Guess what - this is the mess we are in - created by the nanny staters and utopian free traitors who are not for free trade at all, but simply ignoring the mess here, while exploting the ease to make shit over there.
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slapper exactly what has changed between the 50's and today in terms of worker jobs?
Why should the pay of workers go up simply b/c the company makes more money?
its the job of the company to make more money, a factory worker while integral is easily replaceable, a CFO/succesful manager/successful CEO is not easily replaceable...
if the jobs have not changed or gotten easier b/c of technology why should factory workers which again are easily replaceable get more?
I can see some of your points but it seems like your main point comes down to "its not fair" which no one said it was or ever will be. If im wrong please correct my assumption of your viewpoint and please answer the questions.
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slapper exactly what has changed between the 50's and today in terms of worker jobs?
1. Productivity levels.
The average production from an American worker today is 150% more than in the 50s.
(http://images.quickblogcast.com/0/7/7/0/3/240543-230770/Productivityindex.jpg?a=46)
2. Inflation.
Everything in our economy is adjusted for inflation. Everyone knows it's a necessary evil and we account for it in everything. Why are salaries excluded?
Why should the pay of workers go up simply b/c the company makes more money?
Why should we pay the CEOs about 770 times more today than in the 50s? What have CEOs done to warrant such a lavish pay increase? Don't tell me increase the value of the companies, because CEOs don't do shit!
its the job of the company to make more money, a factory worker while integral is easily replaceable, a CFO/succesful manager/successful CEO is not easily replaceable
Says the fuck who?!
if the jobs have not changed or gotten easier b/c of technology why should factory workers which again are easily replaceable get more?
The above is simply not true. I'm not saying you're purposely lying mind you. I'm just saying that productivity levels have gone 150%, meaning the American worker today is making 1.5 times more stuff today than he/she was making back in the 50s. Meaning we are making two more cars per day today than in the 50s. Does technology have something to do with it? Absolutely, but you're talking about people here. And without people technology is nothing but a gadget.
I can see some of your points but it seems like your main point comes down to "its not fair" which no one said it was or ever will be. If im wrong please correct my assumption of your viewpoint and please answer the questions.
No, I'm not only saying that it is not fair, what I am also saying is that reducing the entire equation to the factory-worker-widget model basically takes out the human element out of the economic activity. I mean, it needs not be said: Humans are not the same as a factory or as a widget. It may look good on an Economics 101 book, but it does not work in real life. An the reason why it doesn't work, or it's not fair, is that factories can't work themselves. Widgets can't assemble themselves. It takes the human element for the ACTUAL economic productive, value-building, activity to take place. Meaning: Whithout the worker there isn't any production. It's that simple.
I mean, you may want to take the jobs to another country, but my question to you then would be: Are you an American or a citizen of whatever country economic profit may take you?
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In my mind, my belief is that we reward the financial sector far too much while hammering the producting manufacturing sector far too much.
We need to bring back manufacturing, industrial policies, and the fact that we need to make the things we consume first and foremost, not hit eveery company with EPA regs, OSHA craziness, etc etc. sure we need safety standards and and protect against abuse, but we simply can't have an economy where people who don't go to college have no choice but welfare. thats' crazy.
If it means re-visiting trade deals like GAT, NAFTA, etc so be it. but to me, the fact that we don't push far more production and industrial policies is one of the reasons for our problems.
QFT!
Finally, a calm, rational, reasoned contribution without frothing at the mouth.
Did someone slip you a valium earlier. ;)
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1. Productivity levels.
The average production from an American worker today is 150% more than in the 50s.
(http://images.quickblogcast.com/0/7/7/0/3/240543-230770/Productivityindex.jpg?a=46)
2. Inflation.
Everything in our economy is adjusted for inflation. Everyone knows it's a necessary evil and we account for it in everything. Why are salaries excluded?
Why should we pay the CEOs about 770 times more today than in the 50s? What have CEOs done to warrant such a lavish pay increase? Don't tell me increase the value of the companies, because CEOs don't do shit!
Says the fuck who?!
The above is simply not true. I'm not saying you're purposely lying mind you. I'm just saying that productivity levels have gone 150%, meaning the American worker today is making 1.5 times more stuff today than he/she was making back in the 50s. Meaning we are making two more cars per day today than in the 50s. Does technology have something to do with it? Absolutely, but you're talking about people here. And without people technology is nothing but a gadget.
No, I'm not only saying that it is not fair, what I am also saying is that reducing the entire equation to the factory-worker-widget model basically takes out the human element out of the economic activity. I mean, it needs not be said: Humans are not the same as a factory or as a widget. It may look good on an Economics 101 book, but it does not work in real life. An the reason why it doesn't work, or it's not fair, is that factories can't work themselves. Widgets can't assemble themselves. It takes the human element for the ACTUAL economic productive, value-building, activity to take place. Meaning: Whithout the worker there isn't any production. It's that simple.
I mean, you may want to take the jobs to another country, but my question to you then would be: Are you an American or a citizen of whatever country economic profit may take you?
ok its hard to answer such long posts b/c i get the bouncing text box which is annoying as crap but
1. that is mainly do to technology not the worker so again I ask what has changed in terms of the job they actually do? just b/c technology and processes makes them more efficient doesnt mean they work any harder as a matter of fact it means their work isnt as hard...
2. I agree with inflation i think your pay should keep up with inflation...LOL bro sorry man but it doesnt take a genious or specialized education to work a factory line(at least not the amount as it does to be a CFO/CEO). You like to paint CEO's as these lazy overpaid dunces but fact of the matter is they have special skill and experience that factory workers dont have. You think a factory worker has a grasp of GAAP? you think when they sign a document they take the chance of going to prison if that document is worng? NOOOO
who said life was fair? fact of the matter is that factory workers are common, ppl with the education and experience to be CFO'S/CEO'S are not...
I can agree that workers should get paid more but perhaps in stock options, not salary that way if the company does good b/c of everyones efforts than they have the chance to prosper like anyone else although even factory workers these days get stock options...
Another problem i have is who determines what level of pay is good enough, you? the factory workers?
if they want more money they need to move up in the company, take steps to gain knowledge and experience that warrant such pay....s
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the rich are the smart people 9humans) guiding a flock of sheep (us animals)
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the rich are the smart people 9humans) guiding a flock of sheep (us animals)
intelligence and education are 2 totally different things...just b/c a person is intelligent doesnt mean they are educated and just b/c a person is educated doesnt make them intelligent...
but to do jobs such as a CFO you need to be intelligent and educated...an intelligent factory worker without the needed education will likely not perform well as CFO...
;)
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intelligence and education are 2 totally different things...just b/c a person is intelligent doesnt mean they are educated and just b/c a person is educated doesnt make them intelligent...
but to do jobs such as a CFO you need to be intelligent and educated...an intelligent factory worker without the needed education will likely not perform well as CFO...
;)
thats my point
these people running the show are extremely intelligent
they're intelligent enough to keep building wealth and passing it on/giving there future generation the education they need to combined with there extreme genetically inherited intelligence to run the world.
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im surrounded by extremely educated people that lack any intelligence what so ever
thats my biggest problem in life
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im not an idiot (as my typing would indicate)
imm just lazy