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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 23, 2010, 10:24:12 AM
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Sep 23, 9:34 AM EDT
Boy who found lighter suspended from NJ school
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JAMESBURG, N.J. (AP) -- Officials suspended a fifth-grader in New Jersey who found a lighter on his way to school.
Jamesburg school superintendent Gail Verona told The Home News Tribune of East Brunswick the lighter had the potential to compromise student safety.
But the 11-year-old boy's father questioned why school officials consider the lighter a weapon.
Patrick Halpin called police Wednesday to say there were weapons on school property because teachers at the Grace Breckwedel Middle School had lighters in the building.
Halpin says he was a "little irate" because his son, who is a Boy Scout, never flicked the lighter.
The superintendent says a weapon is anything that "has the potential to cause harm."
Jamesburg Police Chief Martin Horvath says he believes the school took appropriate action.
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Information from: Home News Tribune, http://www.mycentraljersey.com
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When people ask why I utterly hate the government and most police and law enforcement - this story is it.
You have a dipshit in the public school system who is probably afraid of his own shadow, and then said stupidity is doubled by the cops.
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The superintendent says a weapon is anything that "has the potential to cause harm."
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I wonder if this idiot in the school system ever saw Godfather 3.
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The police Chief probably had all the facts the paper may not have had.. For example, gotta ask how the school came to know the kid had the lighter.... was he turning it in like a good boy scout or doing show and tell in the hallway? We have the fathers side that the kid never flicked the lighter but again, what drew the faculties attention to the lighter. People ask me why I utterly hate citizens -this post is it.. Jumping to conclusions without all the facts..
As a side note, the Chief would have been well advised to state it is a matter for the school and the parents, not a police matter at this time.
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In my mind - you don't suspend kids for this. WTF.
we blew up pipe bombs, cherry bombs, shot each other with penny rockets and roman candles, went to bars at 15 y/o, and no one ever got killed, etc etc.
We are pussyifing this society and it absolutely sucks.
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In my mind - you don't suspend kids for this. WTF.
we blew up pipe bombs, cherry bombs, shot each other with penny rockets and roman candles, went to bars at 15 y/o, and no one ever got killed, etc etc.
We are pussyifing this society and it absolutely sucks.
I agree that it's gotten out of hand. Most school officials are between a rock and a hard place. Where some schools were slow to act on transgressions that backfired on them and cost a lot in lawsuits, now they are overly cautious, which may result in high costs of lawsuits. It would be nice if we could rely on common sense and good judgement at that level, but sadly, you can't count on everyone having common sense and good judgement so they make black and white rules. Sometimes those rules create ridiculous responses.
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I agree that it's gotten out of hand. Most school officials are between a rock and a hard place. Where some schools were slow to act on transgressions that backfired on them and cost a lot in lawsuits, now they are overly cautious, which may result in high costs of lawsuits. It would be nice if we could rely on common sense and good judgement at that level, but sadly, you can't count on everyone having common sense and good judgement so they make black and white rules. Sometimes those rules create ridiculous responses.
We blew up mailboxes, had paintball wars in the streets, lit fires, climbed on the roofs of schools, took shits on the doorsteps of people we hated, blasted heavy metal from the car, etc. and no one ever got hurt etc.
We are really screwed with this mentality going on now.
My boys, if I ever have them, will never have bras and panties. They will do MMA, shoot guns, etc.
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as a former middle school teacher - fck yes you suspend kids for lighters. thats the rule. Kids play with fire, and in a place with 1200 kids adn 50 adults, there will be deaths should a fire start in the wrong place. Or they're smoking.
whatever the reason, suspend the kid.
OR - you're okay with 1 kid carrying a lighter, then you're okay with 1200 kids carrying 10 lighters in their pockets. 33, do ya wanna send your kid to a school where safety is determind not by rules, but by the ability of 1200 kids in puberty to not play with a fascinating toy like pocket fire?
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as a former middle school teacher - fck yes you suspend kids for lighters. thats the rule. Kids play with fire, and in a place with 1200 kids adn 50 adults, there will be deaths should a fire start in the wrong place. Or they're smoking.
whatever the reason, suspend the kid.
OR - you're okay with 1 kid carrying a lighter, then you're okay with 1200 kids carrying 10 lighters in their pockets. 33, do ya wanna send your kid to a school where safety is determind not by rules, but by the ability of 1200 kids in puberty to not play with a fascinating toy like pocket fire?
You call the kid in, call the parent, give a damn warning and make an announcement. what good is this kid going to do from home now?
Had I been caught for a fraction of the crap I did I probably would be in jail.
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or, WTF "GOOD" can a kid do with a lighter? ZERO.
he can start fires. For smoking (illegal) or for amusement.
Kids have very shitty decision-making abilities. lighters are one of those things that are a HUGE problem for admin in schools. you can't "track" who started a fire. Especially when ya let every kid carry one ;)
and 'found a lighter' is just as bad as anything else. if he 'found a gun' on the way to school, and carried it to school, would it be worse than bringing it from home?
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or, WTF "GOOD" can a kid do with a lighter? ZERO.
he can start fires. For smoking (illegal) or for amusement.
Kids have very shitty decision-making abilities. lighters are one of those things that are a HUGE problem for admin in schools. you can't "track" who started a fire. Especially when ya let every kid carry one ;)
and 'found a lighter' is just as bad as anything else. if he 'found a gun' on the way to school, and carried it to school, would it be worse than bringing it from home?
Please post the links of the last school a kid burned down.
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You call the kid in, call the parent, give a damn warning and make an announcement. what good is this kid going to do from home now?
cuz the NEXT kid that carries a lighter will SUE THE SCHOOL for his suspension. Cause you let the other kid off...
Remember, many people are a bunch of sue-happy bitches like Christine Odonnell.
You enforce the rule across the board. I'm a former teacher - fire is an untraceable WMD in schools - not cool one bit for such condensed population and kids who can't comprehend the consequences of their actions.
This isn't "all about the good old days when I was a kid..."
It's about how horseplay with a lighter can kill kids. It's that simple.
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It happens:
http://tinyurl.com/2dkcta8
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240 - did you share your 9/11 CT's with the kids? ;D ;D ;D
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33, yes or no-
are you okay with there being 12,000 lighters in hands of 1200 kids of limited decision making ability, in any small-ass building you're loked in? LOL...
i know, you're a superhero who would shoot out the window with your AR-15 and parachute to the ground and have sex with the palin-lookalike vice-principal.
The truth - from a teacher - is that fire is one of the scariest things in teaching. You suspend EVERY TIME for lighters. every time. ther'es no "undo" for fires, and you can't track them. You suspend. It's that simple.
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240 - did you share your 9/11 CT's with the kids? ;D ;D ;D
you NEVER talk politics or religion with kids, unless you want a lawsuit lol...
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you NEVER talk politics or religion with kids, unless you want a lawsuit lol...
Ha ha - you did not answer the question.
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Ha ha - you did not answer the question.
oh goodness no. i never talked 911. never talked iraq war. never hugged students. never had 1 kid alone in any room. never let them in early or stay late. always called admin in, when needed. Never put hands on a student (except in a major fight now and then splitting it).
Some teachers yank arms, talk religion/politics, etc.... a recipe for some liberal ass parent or ignorant ass redneck to get all uppity and sue/complain, etc.
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Ridiculous. The lack of common sense by some school administrators is just downright scary.
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oh goodness no. i never talked 911. never talked iraq war. never hugged students. never had 1 kid alone in any room. never let them in early or stay late. always called admin in, when needed. Never put hands on a student (except in a major fight now and then splitting it).
Some teachers yank arms, talk religion/politics, etc.... a recipe for some liberal ass parent or ignorant ass redneck to get all uppity and sue/complain, etc.
I could never be a teacher.
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Ridiculous. The lack of common sense by some school administrators is just downright scary.
if you allow ONE kid to carry a lighter, you have to allow 1200 kids to carry them.
if you don't suspend THIS student, you can't ever suspend a student for it.
besides, WTF reason does a child need a lighter for? He's either smoking - which is an automatic 3 day suspension - or he just likes to carry weapons. There's a lot of flammable things in school. it takes all of 3 seconds for a kid to light something.
I'm all for limiting the bullshit powers that school admin has - but i sure as hell don't want my kid ever atending a school where administrators let kids carry lighters.
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cuz the NEXT kid that carries a lighter will SUE THE SCHOOL for his suspension. Cause you let the other kid off...
Remember, many people are a bunch of sue-happy bitches like Christine Odonnell.
You enforce the rule across the board. I'm a former teacher - fire is an untraceable WMD in schools - not cool one bit for such condensed population and kids who can't comprehend the consequences of their actions.
This isn't "all about the good old days when I was a kid..."
It's about how horseplay with a lighter can kill kids. It's that simple.
"Sue happy bitches like Christine Odonnel".THE REASON there are so many lawsuits arent because of Christine Odonnel its the limp wristed pussy democrats like John Edwards ,who are run and controlled by the trial lawyers.Democrats have fostered the sue first mentality and are owned by trial lawyers.
However,leave it to a fake libertarian like yourself,to try to bash a conservative instead of the entire democrat party which wouldnt even hear of any TORT reform in their failed health care scam THAT YOU SAID was going to win over voters.Tired of people getting sued?Get the democrats like Imam Obama out of there because its that party that invented suing for no reason.
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"Sue happy bitches like Christine Odonnel".THE REASON there are so many lawsuits arent because of Christine Odonnel its the limp wristed pussy democrats like John Edwards ,who are run and controlled by the trial lawyers.Democrats have fostered the sue first mentality and are owned by trial lawyers.
Dems, huh? LOL who was the person who sued a conservative group for 7 mil because her feelings were hurt?
Citing "Mental Anguish," Christine O'Donnell Sought $6.9 Million in Gender Discrimination Lawsuit Against Conservative Group
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/citing-mental-anguish-christine-odonnell-sought-69-million-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-again
Boss thinks you have a degree - and you don't - and you sue when demoted. LMAO. I can't see hating libs for some ignorant shit like this.
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if you allow ONE kid to carry a lighter, you have to allow 1200 kids to carry them.
if you don't suspend THIS student, you can't ever suspend a student for it.
besides, WTF reason does a child need a lighter for? He's either smoking - which is an automatic 3 day suspension - or he just likes to carry weapons. There's a lot of flammable things in school. it takes all of 3 seconds for a kid to light something.
I'm all for limiting the bullshit powers that school admin has - but i sure as hell don't want my kid ever atending a school where administrators let kids carry lighters.
Ah yes. The overly simplistic "the floodgates will open" argument.
There is a big difference between a kid bringing a lighter to school to smoke, etc. and a kid who picked it up off the ground on the way to school. You don't always strictly enforce a rule. That's where common sense comes into play.
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Ah yes. The overly simplistic "the floodgates will open" argument.
There is a big difference between a kid bringing a lighter to school to smoke, etc. and a kid who picked it up off the ground on the way to school. You don't always strictly enforce a rule. That's where common sense comes into play.
how do you know the kid isn't lying about how he got the lighter?
If he found a knife on the street, or brought one from his kitchen, would it make any difference when he stabbed anyother kid with it? Nope.
Sorry, but I'm all for ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULES. You can't carry lighters cause they're for smoking or for starting fires. Doesn't matter if he claims "I found it" or if the lighter fairy put it under his pillow. He didn't respect the school rules, period.
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I agree with beach about common sense but id like to know how they found out about the lighter.
I also agree with 333 about the pussification of the kids these days. I was driving to work this morning and heard on the radio that this one school somewhere in the US has decided to not send kids home if they have head lice b/c they are afraid that it may cause emotional stres...REALLY?
WTF!!!!!!!!! so youre going to put an entire class full of kids at risk of getting lice b/c you dont want to MAYBE hurt one kids feelings?
some ppl need hard slap across the face
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how do you know the kid isn't lying about how he got the lighter?
If he found a knife on the street, or brought one from his kitchen, would it make any difference when he stabbed anyother kid with it? Nope.
Sorry, but I'm all for ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULES. You can't carry lighters cause they're for smoking or for starting fires. Doesn't matter if he claims "I found it" or if the lighter fairy put it under his pillow. He didn't respect the school rules, period.
We're not talking about a kid who found a knife and stabbed someone. This is about a Boy Scout who found a lighter on the way to school and never flicked it. Just a horrible administrative decision. Now the entire country is talking about it. A more reasoned approach is talk to the kid and his parents.
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I agree with beach about common sense but id like to know how they found out about the lighter.
I also agree with 333 about the pussification of the kids these days. I was driving to work this morning and heard on the radio that this one school somewhere in the US has decided to not send kids home if they have head lice b/c they are afraid that it may cause emotional stres...REALLY?
WTF!!!!!!!!! so youre going to put an entire class full of kids at risk of getting lice b/c you dont want to MAYBE hurt one kids feelings?
some ppl need hard slap across the face
agree on the headlice. when we were kids, you had the same kids get sent home all the time for lice. Today, you don't send them home. youre not even allowed to warn the other kids. It's why I never touched children. Avoided the little buggy ones the most. When you see roaches coming out of their bookbags, etc...
And great point tony, they didn't just randomly search his pockets and find a lighter. he showed someone or tried to use it, or emerged from a restroom stinking like newports.
I don't understand defending the rule-breaker here. You get an AUTOMATIC 45-day suspension for threatening any teacher or staff member verbally. And yall are crying about 3 days for bringing something that can burn the whole place to the ground? LMAO. Of course, maybe yall aren't aware of how tough schools are.
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This is about a Boy Scout who found a lighter on the way to school and never flicked it
How did the school officials learn of the lighter?
I didn't know 'boy scouts' were able to break rules and only get warnings, but non-boy scouts deserved the suspension. Are you a scoutmaster, beachy? :)
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We blew up mailboxes, had paintball wars in the streets, lit fires, climbed on the roofs of schools, took shits on the doorsteps of people we hated, blasted heavy metal from the car, etc. and no one ever got hurt etc.
We are really screwed with this mentality going on now.
My boys, if I ever have them, will never have bras and panties. They will do MMA, shoot guns, etc.
Jesus....
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We blew up mailboxes, had paintball wars in the streets, lit fires, climbed on the roofs of schools, took shits on the doorsteps of people we hated, blasted heavy metal from the car, etc. and no one ever got hurt etc.
33,
Do you feel people should not be charged with a crime for shitting on porches?
Do you feel one should be allowed to smash mailboxes without consequence?
Do you feel ppl shuld be allowed to commit arson?
Is firing paintball guns at ppl alright too?
Dude, you sound more like a lib here lol... "The kids aren't hurting anyone!"
i much prefer "this boy shit outdoors, started fires, destroyed private property - he broke the law repeatedly and it's not something we can just ignore cause boys will be boys".
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Jesus....
;D I was a terror to people who betrayed me. You have no idea some of the bad shit we did. At 16 we were running our own "operations" in the nabe doing recons on people, homes, cars, etc for people who screwed with us. We had walkie talkies, etc.
We never got caught even once and pulled off some crazy shit.
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;D I was a terror to people who betrayed me. You have no idea some of the bad shit we did. At 16 we were running our own "operations" in the nabe doing recons on people, homes, cars, etc for people who screwed with us. We had walkie talkies, etc.
We never got caught even once and pulled off some crazy shit.
so why haven't you done this kinda cool shit to dirtbag illegal in your neighborhood?
suddenly you turn 18, and now it's "whine on message boards and masturbate through tears while watching FOX and Friends at 7 am"?
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I "get" the kids will be kids stuff. But these are different times. When I was going to school kids respected their teachers. Sure we cut up and talked to much in class on ocassion but either we shut up when told or got our asses beat with the paddle 3 times each. A handgun in school was unheard of even while the pickups in the parking lot had deer rifles and shot guns in their back window racks. I can't recall in 12 yrs time a student squaring off with a teacher and we had some asshole teachers. I couldn't be a teacher today.. I've been in class when my son was in the 5th grade and I was appauled at the lack of respect many of the students had for the teacher and the lack of control the teacher had over the room.
So I think it's just a different world these days and the administration is trying to get a grip on it. In this case, IF it was a clear cut rule a lighter or matches is a suspension, then they had no choice. Again, I doubt the teacher used psychic ability to discover he had the lighter... But if it wasn't a clear cut rule, then a meeting with the parents and the child and a warning would probably be enough.
And just as an aside, I worked with a former Eagle Scout/current scoutmaster, very unethical man, so being a boy scout is a silly label to bring into the story.
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so why haven't you done this kinda cool shit to dirtbag illegal in your neighborhood?
suddenly you turn 18, and now it's "whine on message boards and masturbate through tears while watching FOX and Friends at 7 am"?
I was in the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at 18 y/o getting screamed at by drill instructors, NAVY people, and preparing for the military. That did not work out like I hoped though. Its a long story.
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I was in the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at 18 y/o getting screamed at by drill instructors, NAVY people, and preparing for the military. That did not work out like I hoped though. Its a long story.
which morning F&F anchor is your fave to 'finish' to?
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I was in the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at 18 y/o getting screamed at by drill instructors, NAVY people, and preparing for the military. That did not work out like I hoped though. Its a long story.
Any drill instructors find little "presents" on their doorsteps?
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33,
Do you feel people should not be charged with a crime for shitting on porches?
Do you feel one should be allowed to smash mailboxes without consequence?
Do you feel ppl shuld be allowed to commit arson?
Is firing paintball guns at ppl alright too?
Dude, you sound more like a lib here lol... "The kids aren't hurting anyone!"
i much prefer "this boy shit outdoors, started fires, destroyed private property - he broke the law repeatedly and it's not something we can just ignore cause boys will be boys".
I have always been a rebel. in our mind - everything was ok so long as you never got caught.
We did all sorts of crap like crazy gluing locks on peopels homes and cars, cutting electric lines to homes, getting pounds of moss bunkers fish, opening them up and piling them in peoples chimenys and cars, donut attacking people when they come out of the house, attacking people with taco bell burritos and smaching them on windshields of cars and taking off, taking dumps in pools, putting smoke bombs in peoples doorways through the mail slots, firing roman candles at cars, putting vaseline all over someones' car, and all sorts of shit. We made timers for cherry bombs that blew up peoples' bay windows, and mail boxes, etc etc.
But we only did it to people who screwed with us. Our idea was that if you fucked with us, not only were we going to get revenge, but 10X over. And boy did we ever.
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Any drill instructors find little "presents" on their doorsteps?
Actually yes - one piece of shit who was fucking with me cause I was "I-talian', an officer no less, got a goose placed in his room and it shit all over the place.
My room mate was from SC and he was like Huckleberry Finn. We made a snare out of a mop and caught a goose down near the waterfront and put it in a laundry bag. We sneaked into the officer barracks and dumped that goose in the room and that think shit all over the place.
I never got caught and they never could figure out who did it.
I can be your best friend, but if you EVER fuck with me, I will be your worst enemy and will nebver quit until I get revenge.
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Jesus....
This thread now has a "strong religious subtext" and will be moved to the Religion board.
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This thread now has a "strong religious subtext" and will be moved to the Religion board.
Ha Ha - I think I need to make a confession for some of the stuff i am telling you guys - but there is a statute of limitations protecting me att his point.
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I "get" the kids will be kids stuff. But these are different times. When I was going to school kids respected their teachers. Sure we cut up and talked to much in class on ocassion but either we shut up when told or got our asses beat with the paddle 3 times each. A handgun in school was unheard of even while the pickups in the parking lot had deer rifles and shot guns in their back window racks. I can't recall in 12 yrs time a student squaring off with a teacher and we had some asshole teachers. I couldn't be a teacher today.. I've been in class when my son was in the 5th grade and I was appauled at the lack of respect many of the students had for the teacher and the lack of control the teacher had over the room.
So I think it's just a different world these days and the administration is trying to get a grip on it. In this case, IF it was a clear cut rule a lighter or matches is a suspension, then they had no choice. Again, I doubt the teacher used psychic ability to discover he had the lighter... But if it wasn't a clear cut rule, then a meeting with the parents and the child and a warning would probably be enough.
And just as an aside, I worked with a former Eagle Scout/current scoutmaster, very unethical man, so being a boy scout is a silly label to bring into the story.
Not silly at all. I would have mentioned it if I wrote the story. Kids who go through Boys Scouts, become Eagle Scouts, etc. get great training. Doesn't mean they will all be honest, etc., but certainly raises the presumption (at least for me) that they will more likely than not do the right thing.