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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: SAMSON123 on September 27, 2010, 09:47:50 PM
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It must be so nice to live in a country where you are free to speak out against the ills, wrongs and miscarriages of your government... as long as this place is not america!!!!!
FBI raids homes of anti-war activists
September 24, 2010
Federal agents searched homes of anti-war activists in Chicago and Minneapolis on Friday in an investigation of possible links with terrorist organizations in the Middle East and South America.
(http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/0924-fbi-invest-612.jpg)
Federal agents carry empty boxes as part of a search in the home of anti-war activists Friday. (Tribune / Phil Velasquez)
About 20 FBI agents spent most of the day searching the Logan Square residence of activists Stephanie Weiner and Joseph Iosbaker, Weiner said.
In Jefferson Park, neighbors saw FBI agents carrying boxes from the apartment of community activist Hatem Abudayyeh, executive director of the Arab American Action Network. In addition, Chicago activist Thomas Burke said he was served a grand jury subpoena that requested records of any payments to Abudayyeh or his group.
"The warrants are seeking evidence in support of an ongoing Joint Terrorism Task Force investigation into activities concerning the material support of terrorism," said Steve Warfield, spokesman for the FBI in Minneapolis, where six additional homes were searched Friday.
Warfield said no arrests had been made and that there was no "imminent danger" to the public.
Ross Rice, an FBI spokesman in Chicago, gave the two Chicago blocks where agents had searched homes Friday, but he declined to name the targets.
(http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/0924-fbi-invest-b.jpg)
Anti-war activists Joe Iosbaker and Stephanie Weiner at their Northwest Side home Friday. (Tribune / Phil Velasquez)
Melinda Power, an attorney for Weiner and Iosbaker and a longtime friend, said agents took about 30 boxes of papers dating to the 1970s, including a postcard from an old girlfriend of Iosbaker's.
"They said they would determine what was evidence later," Power said.
Weiner, who said she and her husband for years have been active in labor causes and the anti-war movement, complained the search was an attempt to intimidate her and other activists.
"We aren't doing anything differently than we have in 20 years," said Weiner, a teacher at Wilbur Wright College. Iosbaker is a staff member at the University of Illinois at Chicago and a union steward for Service Employees International Union Local 73.
Burke said he received a grand jury subpoena requesting records of payments to Abudayyeh's organization as well as two groups among the State Department's list of foreign terrorist organizations, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).
The subpoena also requested "items relating to trips to Colombia, Jordan, Syria, the Palestinian territories of Israel." Burke said he toured Colombia eight years ago with members of an oil workers union there.
Burke, a former school custodian-turned-stay-at-home father, belongs to the Freedom Road Socialist Organization, a group mentioned in subpoenas and search warrants issued Friday to activists in Minneapolis.
Burke said he knows Weiner, Iosbaker and Abudayyeh from years of involvement in demonstrations and activities in Chicago. Most of the people whose homes were searched or who were issued subpoenas attended anti-war rallies at the 2008 Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn., he said.
In a statement issued on behalf of the activists, Minneapolis activist Steff Yorek said the homes of a number of anti-war, socialist or pro-Palestinian groups had been searched by the FBI.
Yorek, whose home was also searched Friday, called the searches "an outrageous fishing expedition."
"Activists have the right not to speak with the FBI and are encouraged to politely refuse," she said.
Several of those targeted with warrants or subpoenas are also occasional contributors to Fight Back!, a socialist newsletter that is generally supportive of leftist groups and critical of U.S. "wars of occupation" in Iraq and Afghanistan, Burke said.
"We pretty much all know each other," Burke said. "We barely have money to publish our magazine. We might write about (revolutionary groups) favorably, but as for giving them material aid, nothing."
Weiner and Iosbaker were also subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury in Chicago on Oct. 5, Power said.
Not long after the FBI agents left, a group of about 20 demonstrators gathered outside the couple's home, carrying signs and singing "Give Peace a Chance."
Sarah Simmons, 51, held a piece of paper printed with a peace sign. She said she had known the couple for 15 years. "I think this is outrageous," she said.
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This seems pretty simple to me:
1. If you're protesting, if you're anti-this or pro-that, fine, speak your mind, protest, whatever...even if you're wrong, even if you're an outright idiot, no problem, you're fine.
2. If you are doing the above things and giving money to enemies of the U.S., you know, those that want to kill us, guess what, you have a big problem. If you're one of those people you should be arrested and charged with treason.
Pretty simple and straightforward...I don't see the problem.
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This seems pretty simple to me:
1. If you're protesting, if you're anti-this or pro-that, fine, speak your mind, protest, whatever...even if you're wrong, even if you're an outright idiot, no problem, you're fine.
2. If you are doing the above things and giving money to enemies of the U.S., you know, those that want to kill us, guess what, you have a big problem. If you're one of those people you should be arrested and charged with treason.
Pretty simple and straightforward...I don't see the problem.
You obviously did NOT read the article, neither do you have any understanding of your constitution or your rights. It is stated numerous times throughout the article that NO EVIDENCE OF WRONG DOING EXISTS yet these people are finding themselves attacked by the FBI, CIA, NSA etc etc, possessions confiscated, home violated, privacy violated, LIES concocted and yet you see nothing wrong with it?. The new keyword to violating a person in america is terrorism. All some law enforcement agency has to do is scream out terrorism and that give Carte Blanche to violating its citizens rights. In every case so far people who protest against americas rogue government, take a stance on the attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, protest big pharma or the petrochemical industry etc etc find themselves labeled terrorist or dealing with supposed terrorism organizations and these actions ensue. I guess like those who must see every grain of sand to know they are at the beach you too must be violated at every turn to know, realize and learn what your rights are and to fight those who would violate them.
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You obviously did NOT read the article, neither do you have any understanding of your constitution or your rights. It is stated numerous times throughout the article that NO EVIDENCE OF WRONG DOING EXISTS yet these people are finding themselves attacked by the FBI, CIA, NSA etc etc, possessions confiscated, home violated, privacy violated, LIES concocted and yet you see nothing wrong with it?. The new keyword to violating a person in america is terrorism. All some law enforcement agency has to do is scream out terrorism and that give Carte Blanche to violating its citizens rights. In every case so far people who protest against americas rogue government, take a stance on the attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, protest big pharma or the petrochemical industry etc etc find themselves labeled terrorist or dealing with supposed terrorism organizations and these actions ensue. I guess like those who must see every grain of sand to know they are at the beach you too must be violated at every turn to know, realize and learn what your rights are and to fight those who would violate them.
1. I read the entire article.
2. I have a degree in constitutional law.
3. Having a degree in constitutional law doesn't make me automatically right but I can effectively argue what's in the constitution.
4. They have probable cause to believe these individuals are financially supporting terrorism.
5. If they do not have probable cause, if they are simply acting on a hunch, sure, i agree, these individuals have had their rights violated.
6. If they are found to in fact be supporting terrorism yet as American citizens are not granted due process, then yes, their rights will have been violated.
7. At this point there is IMO no evidence their rights have been violated.
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author=Arnold jr link=topic=349950.msg4922857#msg4922857 date=1285699256]
1. I read the entire article.
But you missed the entire point...so it is as good as you having NOT read it
2. I have a degree in constitutional law.
So does Obama and he is CLUELESS...so having a degree in something essentially only means the person passed the exam, but practical application of the "KNOWLEDGE" is absent
3. Having a degree in constitutional law doesn't make me automatically right but I can effectively argue what's in the constitution.
There is nothing to argue in a case that is clearly obvious. Sort of like arguing whether or not a person shot another when a clear video has captured the entire exchange of a shooter and victim.
4. They have probable cause to believe these individuals are financially supporting terrorism.
There is no probable cause neither any evidence of money transferal.... Probable Cause has become a term that means we have no idea about what if anything a person has done, but we will violate the persons rights simply because we do not like what he/she/they are doing...not that it is an illegal act.
5. If they do not have probable cause, if they are simply acting on a hunch, sure, i agree, these individuals have had their rights violated.
What you fail to see is the hypocrisy in what is being done... You have the right to freedom of speech, assembly etc etc, but if your government doesn't like that right, they will violate you and make a public example of it to send a message out to others that we can take away your rights or label you "TERRORIST" in order to SILENCE YOU!!!!!
6. If they are found to in fact be supporting terrorism yet as American citizens are not granted due process, then yes, their rights will have been violated.
I guess your constitutional law class failed you miserably, because it has to be clearly established before hand that someone is engaged in a criminal act with all supporting evidence to back that up...not a hunch or I think or we thought or it seems etc etc. What you have presented in this case is a THOUGHT CRIME or the HOPE that someone has or is doing something wrong and the hope that you can find something to support the thought crime.
7. At this point there is IMO no evidence their rights have been violated.
At this point it is imperative that you sue the university and professors that MIS-EDUCATED you about the laws of your land. Sorry honcho, but this is so obviously a violation of the Rights of the citizens that it is not even funny. A precedent has been established by way of your Patriot Act that if not addressed and suspended immediately you will have MIB crashing every household in america on every hunch, lie, theory, assumption and word spoken
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1. Where did this article you posted come from?
2. The article doesn't specify if there is in fact substantial evidence...this doesn't mean there's not, it simply means the article doesn't fully address it.
3. Painting things black and white is not always proper, for example, video catches someone shooting someone else, in that case we know who shot the the person, we can see it. What about other factors, was the persons life in danger, was the shooting justified, there are gray areas and without all facts it's impossible to make a sound judgment...in the article you posted we do not have all the facts.
4. If law enforcement is in fact basing this entire thing off of a "hunch" I agree with you, it's wrong.
5. Yes, you're right, you have the right to free speech, free expression, you have the right to disagree with the government, you have the right to protest and oppose the government...you even have the right to openly support enemies of the U.S. so as long as this support is merely in spirit and not financially or by action of a citizen. The latter is treason.
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author=Arnold jr link=topic=349950.msg4923157#msg4923157 date=1285707949]
1. Where did this article you posted come from?
Was on Yahoo but also appeared on many news sources like this http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/09/fbi-serves-search-warrants-here-in-terror-probe.html
2. The article doesn't specify if there is in fact substantial evidence...this doesn't mean there's not, it simply means the article doesn't fully address it.
The fact that there ARE NO FACTS raises eyebrows in a case like this. there has to be CLEAR EVIDENCE of a crime or illegal activity for the FBI/CIA/NSA etc to invade someone privacy, property and begin confiscating possessions. The only glaring "crime" is the fact that these people protested against the american government.
3. Painting things black and white is not always proper, for example, video catches someone shooting someone else, in that case we know who shot the the person, we can see it. What about other factors, was the persons life in danger, was the shooting justified, there are gray areas and without all facts it's impossible to make a sound judgment...in the article you posted we do not have all the facts.
You have the nerve to ask for facts when this is the crux of the whole matter in this case. No facts/evidence/crime yet the people are being treated like criminals...WHATEVER HAPPENED UNTIL INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?!?!?!!?!?!
4. If law enforcement is in fact basing this entire thing off of a "hunch" I agree with you, it's wrong.
So called law enforcement is basing this action on the fact that they do not want anyone/citizen speaking out against what the american government does...FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. These cases of being harassed, threatened, beat up, jailed, suicided, renditioned etc etc are so common and prevalent in america it is first nature now for your government to do it and the citizenry to realize it. This is nothing new and the response from the media, citizenry, legal organizations etc should be to represent and protect these people at all cost, because the violation has already occurred and the justification can now be created by claiming terrorism or anything to keep this violation "legal".
5. Yes, you're right, you have the right to free speech, free expression, you have the right to disagree with the government, you have the right to protest and oppose the government...you even have the right to openly support enemies of the U.S. so as long as this support is merely in spirit and not financially or by action of a citizen. The latter is treason.
Again you criminally prosecute people with no evidence. Treason is not the issue...LEGALITY IS. There is NO EVIDENCE OF MONEY/FINANCIAL TRANSFERRING OF FUNDS/MONEY to anyone one, so where is your claim substantiated? This is nothing more than harassment/intimidation/threatening/invasion/violation and nothing more. Sadly people take the word of the VIOLATOR more than the VIOLATED when collection of facts and preponderance of evidence should be what guides your opinion on matters. As it stands it appears your degree has put you square against the citizenry, when it should have made you aware that its purpose: Constitution was to protect the citizenry from these very things.
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First, thanks for telling me where you found this, I was simply curious.
You're saying there is no evidence because it was not posted in the article, that doesn't mean there's no evidence. No law enforcement worth its salt is going to give out all info with open arms...yes this does happen sometimes, usually due to media leaks and it is often very damaging to the case at hand.
Like I said, if there's no evidence, you're right, the agents involved in this should lose their jobs and be arrested. I'm not making a judgment either way on these people but i do believe it's prudent to let all the facts come out and hopefully in due time they will.