Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on October 19, 2010, 09:11:24 AM
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The NPC didn't come into existance until the late 1970's . Before that , all the big amatuer US- BB events ,like the Mr America, were run by the AAU. The AAU wanted to promote Olympic lifting and other related sports along with bodybuilding.
The founders of the NPC realized that a lot of bodybuilders wanted an organization , just for them.
The IFBB began years before the NPC as the world amatuer and pro divsions of bodybuilding . For example, they started the Olympia and eventual pro circuit we have now.
I remember getting my first NPC card application, 30 yrs ago at a BB meet and expo. I was told by the rep, that this new NPC was a pure bodybuilding organization. Unlike the AAU, bodybuilding would be the ONLY sport they would promote. I signed up that day and paid my dues on the spot.
At this years 2010 nationals, figure and bikini were at least 2/3 of the entrants and time on stage in the finals.
Since this is the NPC's flagship national event, I must conclude it represents the ideals and best of what the NPC has to offer.
Based on simple numbers, the NPC has shifted from mosltly bodybuilding to mostly figure and bikini.
The official policy is to now add more figure based entrants in the form of male fitness physique. In this class the men will wear knee length board shorts and be judged more as a "beach body".
I want to be part of an organization that is about bodybuilding NOT figure or bathing suit contests.
The numbers and what I saw speak volumes about where the NPC is now and where they headed.
I am not sure what will happen exactly, but I do know that the NPC isn't the same "BODYBUILING only " organzation I first jioned 3 decades ago.
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Howie ,Should I be mean to you or not ?
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Gaol is an alternative spelling of jail. Bet you didn't know that. ;)
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Howie ,Should I be mean to you or not ?
Just address the issue any way you desire.
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Gaol is an alternative spelling of jail. Bet you didn't know that. ;)
LOL< I changed the typo right after the post first went up.
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Howie ,Should I be mean to you or not ?
OK? So what do you think of the NPC's new direction?
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(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7928/barechestsmall.jpg)
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The NPC didn't come into existance until the late 1970's . Before that , all the big amatuer US- BB events ,like the Mr America, were run by the AAU. The AAU wanted to promote Olympic lifting and other related sports along with bodybuilding.
The founders of the NPC realized that a lot of bodybuilders wanted an organization , just for them.
The IFBB began years before the NPC as the world amatuer and pro divsions of bodybuilding . For example, they started the Olympia and eventual pro circuit we have now.
I remember getting my first NPC card application, 30 yrs ago at a BB meet and expo. I was told by the rep, that this new NPC was a pure bodybuilding organization. Unlike the AAU, bodybuilding would be the ONLY sport they would promote. I signed up that day and paid my dues on the spot.
At this years 2010 nationals, figure and bikini were at least 2/3 of the entrants and time on stage in the finals.
Since this is the NPC's flagship national event, I must conclude it represents the ideals and best of what the NPC has to offer.
Based on simple numbers, the NPC has shifted from mosltly bodybuilding to mostly figure and bikini.
The official policy is to now add more figure based entrants in the form of male fitness physique. In this class the men will wear knee length board shorts and be judged more as a "beach body".
I want to be part of an organization that is about bodybuilding NOT figure or bathing suit contests.
The numbers and what I saw speak volumes about where the NPC is now and where they headed.
I am not sure what will happen exactly, but I do know that the NPC isn't the same "BODYBUILING only " organzation I first jioned 3 decades ago.
Gotta change with the times, Howie....it aint what it used to be for male BBers...gone are the 80/ 90's with 200 BBers competing in the Nationals, 40 guys in a class, etc. It's a tough sell to any young guy to put out time and money for our sport...especially in this "drive-through" style of life we have these days. Instatnt gratification is whats desired....convincing someone to invest YEARS of their time so they could MAYBE win a pro card, and then MAYBE start making some money is difficult if not impossible. Also, kids arent privvy to BB until much later in life as conventional sports like Football, baseball, soccer, etc. are what we grow up with, are surrounded with, and are exposed to from day 1...
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Gotta change with the times, Howie....it aint what it used to be for male BBers...gone are the 80/ 90's with 200 BBers competing in the Nationals, 40 guys in a class, etc. It's a tough sell to any young guy to put out time and money for our sport...especially in this "drive-through" style of life we have these days. Instatnt gratification is whats desired....convincing someone to invest YEARS of their time so they could MAYBE win a pro card, and then MAYBE start making some money is difficult if not impossible. Also, kids arent privvy to BB until much later in life as conventional sports like Football, baseball, soccer, etc. are what we grow up with, are surrounded with, and are exposed to from day 1...
Bob, you are the IFBB athletes rep. This is bodybuilding we are talking about and you represent the pro male and female bodybuilders in the IFBB.
Change isn't worth a crap, if we only have 20% bodybuilding and 80% bathing suit divisions within the NPC/IFBB.
I understand you worked your way into making a living within BB organizations and related industry. You gotta do, what you gotta do to make a living.
NOT me. I am looking for another BB organization to get involved with. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me as a fan these past yrs.
All the best, Howard In Ga.
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$
........end of thread
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Gotta change with the times, Howie....it aint what it used to be for male BBers...gone are the 80/ 90's with 200 BBers competing in the Nationals, 40 guys in a class, etc. It's a tough sell to any young guy to put out time and money for our sport...especially in this "drive-through" style of life we have these days. Instatnt gratification is whats desired....convincing someone to invest YEARS of their time so they could MAYBE win a pro card, and then MAYBE start making some money is difficult if not impossible. Also, kids arent privvy to BB until much later in life as conventional sports like Football, baseball, soccer, etc. are what we grow up with, are surrounded with, and are exposed to from day 1...
Bob, do you believe men's bodybuilding will die without change? If that is the case, why not just change the judging rules to accommodate the desired look? There really is no need for male figure. The judges have the power to affect change.
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Bob, you are the IFBB athletes rep. This is bodybuilding we are talking about and you represent the pro male and female bodybuilders in the IFBB.
Change isn't worth a crap, if we only have 20% bodybuilding and 80% bathing suit divisions within the NPC/IFBB.
I understand you worked your way into making a living within BB organizations and related industry. You gotta do, what you gotta do to make a living.
NOT me. I am looking for another BB organization to get involved with. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me as a fan these past yrs.
All the best, Howard In Ga.
What would you suggest, sir? Cant force guys to participate...as for other orgs, they barely survive as it is.
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Bob, do you believe men's bodybuilding will die without change? If that is the case, why not just change the judging rules to accommodate the desired look? There really is no need for male figure. The judges have the power to affect change.
Mens BB doesnt need any overhaul, its just a tough sell in these ever changing times...kids dont want to spend countless hours in the gym, they just have that kind of dicipline these days, not the attention span. Patience is a lost art...and people have gotten lazier over time...
This is just expanding the brand to include more opportunities...this isnt a case of giving BBers a choice...they're two entirely different animals.
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Bob, you are the IFBB athletes rep. This is bodybuilding we are talking about and you represent the pro male and female bodybuilders in the IFBB.
Change isn't worth a crap, if we only have 20% bodybuilding and 80% bathing suit divisions within the NPC/IFBB.
I understand you worked your way into making a living within BB organizations and related industry. You gotta do, what you gotta do to make a living.
NOT me. I am looking for another BB organization to get involved with. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me as a fan these past yrs.
All the best, Howard In Ga.
Hey Howie, check out The Positive Board, some dude from the WBFF just posted a video and link there. ;D
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=329004.0
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As a sport, I think that bodybuilding is dead. If it is not dead, then it is dying.
As a spectacle, though, there will always be people willing to pay to see super-freaks. And as long as this remains true, the Olympia and the Arnold will be successful. The problem is that the success of these two shows tend to cover up the failures in the sport itself.
I think that the success of the Olympia and the Arnold, as well as the changes in judging protocol and criteria clearly indicate that bodybuilding has decided that it is to be spectacle rather than a sport.
At least, that is what I think.
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What would you suggest, sir? Cant force guys to participate...as for other orgs, they barely survive as it is.
YOU said that the fans want to see big freaks when I made the suggestion of going to drug tested pros.
YOU were right then ,I admit that, but wrong now.
If they dilute the show down with majority swim suit bodies, it will be a NON event in a hurry.
The reason other organizations struggle is that they don't have incredible bodybuilders like the IFBB and NPC .
I can honestly see this being the end of bodybuilding as we know it.
I know you can't say it here, but you are not going to be too thrilled to MC the Mr "Board Shorts" figure class at the Olympia.
If the IFBB can sell tickets for a mostly swimsuit "pageant", then Good luck and God bless.
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Hey Howie, check out The Positive Board, some dude from the WBFF just posted a video and link there. ;D
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=329004.0
Thanks I hope they do well, but we shall see.
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YOU said that the fans want to see big freaks when I made the suggestion of going to drug tested pros.
YOU were right then ,I admit that, but wrong now.
If they dilute the show down with majority swim suit bodies, it will be a NON event in a hurry.
The reason other organizations struggle is that they don't have incredible bodybuilders like the IFBB and NPC .
I can honestly see this being the end of bodybuilding as we know it.
I know you can't say it here, but you are not going to be too thrilled to MC the Mr "Board Shorts" figure class at the Olympia.
If the IFBB can sell tickets for a mostly swimsuit "pageant", then Good luck and God bless.
They DO want to see freaks...thats what we have.
The show doesnt get diluted when the divisions are TOTALLY SEPERATE
Were still selling tickets to BB shows, just has other events to watch IN ADDITION TO...
It's not like the mens physique contestants stand on stage with the bBers...
I'm really at a loss here, Howie...you're not making any logical sense.
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Mens BB doesnt need any overhaul, its just a tough sell in these ever changing times...kids dont want to spend countless hours in the gym, they just have that kind of dicipline these days, not the attention span. Patience is a lost art...and people have gotten lazier over time...
This is just expanding the brand to include more opportunities...this isnt a case of giving BBers a choice...they're two entirely different animals.
Dorian didn't spend countless hours in the gym...
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Were still selling tickets to BB shows, just has other events to watch IN ADDITION TO...
Exactly Howies point, it's no longer bbing shows with side attractions, bbing has become the side attraction and bikinis and twink in board shorts are now the main attraction. Howie likes his men in thongs to be the sole source of his entertainment.
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Mens BB doesnt need any overhaul, its just a tough sell in these ever changing times...kids dont want to spend countless hours in the gym, they just have that kind of dicipline these days, not the attention span. Patience is a lost art...and people have gotten lazier over time...
This is just expanding the brand to include more opportunities...this isnt a case of giving BBers a choice...they're two entirely different animals.
If kids don't have the patience or attention span to put the necessary work into becoming a bodybuilder, isn't bodybuilding in trouble? I noticed that the elite competitors are getting older and older. To me that's a sign that bodybuilding does need some overhaul to bring in some new blood. Allowing them to pursue a completely different division like men's figure will not save bodybuilding.
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If kids don't have the patience or attention span to put the necessary work into becoming a bodybuilder, isn't bodybuilding in trouble? I noticed that the elite competitors are getting older and older. To me that's a sign that bodybuilding does need some overhaul to bring in some new blood. Allowing them to pursue a completely different division like men's figure will not save bodybuilding.
It's not intended to "save" anything....
The elite competitors are getting older, because the bar has been raised over the years and it takes the average pro a lot longer to achieve that level...
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If kids don't have the patience or attention span to put the necessary work into becoming a bodybuilder, isn't bodybuilding in trouble? I noticed that the elite competitors are getting older and older. To me that's a sign that bodybuilding does need some overhaul to bring in some new blood. Allowing them to pursue a completely different division like men's figure will not save bodybuilding.
It saves total revenue
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To me, this would be like being an avid car fan whose into muscle cars, and bitching because they added an antique car collection and an exotic car collection to the show...WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? I'll still only be interested in the muscle cars and wont waste my time looking at the other collections...as long as the amount of muscle cars being shown isnt diminished because of it, WHO CARES?
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To me, this would be like being an avid car fan whose into muscle cars, and bitching because they added an antique car collection and an exotic car collection to the show...WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? I'll still only be interested in the muscle cars and wont waste my time looking at the other collections...as long as the amount of muscle cars being shown isnt diminished because of it, WHO CARES?
LOL, but they are diminishing dipshit, you said it yourself........
It's not intended to "save" anything....
The elite competitors are getting older, because the bar has been raised over the years and it takes the average pro a lot longer to achieve that level...
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To me, this would be like being an avid car fan whose into muscle cars, and bitching because they added an antique car collection and an exotic car collection to the show...WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? I'll still only be interested in the muscle cars and wont waste my time looking at the other collections...as long as the amount of muscle cars being shown isnt diminished because of it, WHO CARES?
Good pt, but to me it is having the major % as doing something very different.
Having 80% motorcyles and only 20% classic cars would change the entire atmosphere, focus and interest of the show.
It would be a morph into a motorcycle show that featured some damn impressive cars.
Having a figure class where some girls compete in a figure class and we have 80-90% bodybuilders is just fine.
In the NPC at least, the vast majority on stage at big shows are NOT bodybuilders.
THAT is my major concern.
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To me, the original purpose of both the IFBB and the NPC was to make money. Nothing wrong with that as your primary goal, so long as you have secondary goals that are also of merit.
Bodybuilding is not remotely a sport. It never has been and never will be. It was at one time a healthful pastime and was often referred to as "physical culture". It was more a way of life for the majority of participants. Men, and with a few exceptions such as the beautiful "Pudgy Stockton", women participated it. I highly recommend the excellent book "Remembering Muscle Beach" for a look at what was truly an age of health, strength and well built bodies.
What passes for "bodybuilding" today is anything but. It is a subculture if you will with little (if any) health benefits to the "lifestyle" presented by the periodicals of the day. Contestants are nothing less than walking drug vials. Male or female, it matters not. They are all full of dope. The women are even more hideous than their male counterparts. Turgid with MALE hormones, they resemble the mythical harpies sans wings. Ugly as shit on a stick.
The men are so large as to be useless to the world in general. Their muscles have no purpose other than lifting and posing. Whoooooopeeeee. They can't get out of their own way. No one I know of desires to look like these turgid turds. Additionally, no one I know desires a woman that looks like a man. What real man would want a woman that looks like a man?
So that is what the IFBB and the NPC promote. Big ass men and "women", filled with a panoply of drugs, unable to do anything but "pose", either on a stage or in private for schmoes. Both organizations exist to make money off of bodydopers and do so by "promoting" the "sport" of bodydoping. That is their primary goal, their business raison d'être. So then, where does the money come from?
Not the general public. They're too busy watching and participating in real sports, e.g. football, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc. Who then, is the primary audience for bodydoping? For the greater part, homosexuals. To a lesser extent, the friends and families of bodydopers. Don't believe me? Go to a show and watch the audience.
Me? I am no bodybuilder, but I do strive for physical excellence via weight training. I'm more a physical culturist. Old fashioned? Nah. Good health, a decent physique never goes out of style. Besides, looking and feeling good is...well, it's great! Dopers don't have that feeling and so long as they're on the crap, they never will. Never.
And the IFBB and NPC could care less because there's always some neophyte druggie waiting in the wings, hoping to be the next Arnie. There's money to be made. Off of him.
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Good pt, but to me it is having the major % as doing something very different.
Having 80% motorcyles and only 20% classic cars would change the entire atmosphere, focus and interest of the show.
It would be a morph into a motorcycle show that featured some damn impressive cars.
Having a figure class where some girls compete in a figure class and we have 80-90% bodybuilders is just fine.
In the NPC at least, the vast majority on stage at big shows are NOT bodybuilders.
THAT is my major concern.
The point you're missing, my friend...is that no matter what the number of figure/ bikini/ etc chicks...it has NO BEARING on how many BBers show up. Do you believe a NPC show with 25 BBers and a few figure chicks could be successful? It would never be able to be profitable...
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The point you're missing, my friend...is that no matter what the number of figure/ bikini/ etc chicks...it has NO BEARING on how many BBers show up. Do you believe a NPC show with 25 BBers and a few figure chicks could be successful? It would never be able to be profitable...
Maybe you are right? I understand the need to make $$, but this doesn't sit well with me, sorry.
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To me, the original purpose of both the IFBB and the NPC was to make money. Nothing wrong with that as your primary goal, so long as you have secondary goals that are also of merit.
Bodybuilding is not remotely a sport. It never has been and never will be. It was at one time a healthful pastime and was often referred to as "physical culture". It was more a way of life for the majority of participants. Men, and with a few exceptions such as the beautiful "Pudgy Stockton", women participated it. I highly recommend the excellent book "Remembering Muscle Beach" for a look at what was truly an age of health, strength and well built bodies.
What passes for "bodybuilding" today is anything but. It is a subculture if you will with little (if any) health benefits to the "lifestyle" presented by the periodicals of the day. Contestants are nothing less than walking drug vials. Male or female, it matters not. They are all full of dope. The women are even more hideous than their male counterparts. Turgid with MALE hormones, they resemble the mythical harpies sans wings. Ugly as shit on a stick.
The men are so large as to be useless to the world in general. Their muscles have no purpose other than lifting and posing. Whoooooopeeeee. They can't get out of their own way. No one I know of desires to look like these turgid turds. Additionally, no one I know desires a woman that looks like a man. What real man would want a woman that looks like a man?
So that is what the IFBB and the NPC promote. Big ass men and "women", filled with a panoply of drugs, unable to do anything but "pose", either on a stage or in private for schmoes. Both organizations exist to make money off of bodydopers and do so by "promoting" the "sport" of bodydoping. That is their primary goal, their business raison d'être. So then, where does the money come from?
Not the general public. They're too busy watching and participating in real sports, e.g. football, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc. Who then, is the primary audience for bodydoping? For the greater part, homosexuals. To a lesser extent, the friends and families of bodydopers. Don't believe me? Go to a show and watch the audience.
Me? I am no bodybuilder, but I do strive for physical excellence via weight training. I'm more a physical culturist. Old fashioned? Nah. Good health, a decent physique never goes out of style. Besides, looking and feeling good is...well, it's great! Dopers don't have that feeling and so long as they're on the crap, they never will. Never.
And the IFBB and NPC could care less because there's always some neophyte druggie waiting in the wings, hoping to be the next Arnie. There's money to be made. Off of him.
GREAT post. I guess I am more of a physical culturist myself these days , I guess I always was ?? Did a 5 mile , 1 hr slow run-hike out on the trails of a lovely state park today for my workout, it was great. 70's and clear, and just beautiful and peaceful, felt really healthy puffing along.
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It's not intended to "save" anything....
The elite competitors are getting older, because the bar has been raised over the years and it takes the average pro a lot longer to achieve that level...
The bar hasn't been raised, the rules have changed. When Arnold & Haney were in their late 20's and winning Olympias, they looked great. They didn't have the expanded midsections, torn muscles, and nerve damage you see onstage now with the older champions. A guy like Phil Heath comes along and blows everyone away because he's a throwback to the days of younger competitors with a fresh, clean look that you don't see anymore. The quality is gone.
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I remember the days when I was proud to be a bodybuilder and walked around with much confidence about my hobby that I took so seriously....Now, I have to feel ashamed or embarrassed about it. Due to most people assuming all bodybuilders are gay or have gay affiliations...
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The bar hasn't been raised, the rules have changed. When Arnold & Haney were in their late 20's and winning Olympias, they looked great. They didn't have the expanded midsections, torn muscles, and nerve damage you see onstage now with the older champions. A guy like Phil Heath comes along and blows everyone away because he's a throwback to the days of younger competitors with a fresh, clean look that you don't see anymore. The quality is gone.
You are correct, sir. If I may, I should like to add another thought to yours.
The bar has been lowered.
Bodydoping today is nothing less than a game of (moral) "Limbo". How low will they go? By "they" I mean both the competitors and those running the "show"? For example. Given that the anthropomorphic throwback to one of man's earlier evolutionary mutations, known to all by the name "Kai Greene" won the Arnold "Crappic" and given that he is a known molestor of grapefruit and who knows what other "fruits", I would say that the bar is lower than it has ever been.
In answer to the oft quoted saying, "It's only gay if you want it to be", I would reply:
Nah. It's morally bankrupt, it's queer, it's weird, it's perverse, fake, artificial, and it's really disgusting. What is "it"? Bodydoping.
The skeletons of this canard ridden fetishist "sport" aren't hiding in a closet, they're coming out of it. Squealing like the pigs they are.
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You are correct, sir. If I may, I should like to add another thought to yours.
The bar has been lowered.
Bodydoping today is nothing less than a game of (moral) "Limbo". How low will they go? By "they" I mean both the competitors and those running the "show"? For example. Given that the anthropomorphic throwback to one of man's earlier evolutionary mutations, known to all by the name "Kai Greene" won the Arnold "Crappic" and given that he is a known molestor of grapefruit and who knows what other "fruits", I would say that the bar is lower than it has ever been.
In answer to the oft quoted saying, "It's only gay if you want it to be", I would reply:
Nah. It's morally bankrupt, it's queer, it's weird, it's perverse, fake, artificial, and it's really disgusting. What is "it"? Bodydoping.
The skeletons of this canard ridden fetishist "sport" aren't hiding in a closet, they're coming out of it. Squealing like the pigs they are.
Interesting read, and post. Good food for thought. Maybe the crazy bodybuilding uncle that once lived in the basement has come out into the living room for all to see?
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I remember the days when I was proud to be a bodybuilder and walked around with much confidence about my hobby that I took so seriously....Now, I have to feel ashamed or embarrassed about it. Due to most people assuming all bodybuilders are gay or have gay affiliations...
Last weekend's Nationals is a good example. Robert Burneika should never get a pro card. Set the example right there and begin to select guys who have the right structure and shape for bodybuilding.
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The bar has been lowered, not raised.
Even if bodybuilding is not a sport, treat it like one.
Who knows, maybe then people will come to believe that it is one...