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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on October 20, 2010, 08:59:19 AM
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He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
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(http://contests.flexonline.com/images/contests/large/103047.jpg)
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(http://contests.flexonline.com/images/contests/large/103047.jpg)
bro....c'mon with this shit
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He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
Since when did Bob Chicherillo do away with judging the posing round? Last time I checked, he has no power to do that. He just announces the rule changes.
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Since when did Bob Chicherillo do away with judging the posing round? Last time I checked, he has no power to do that. He just announces the rule changes.
As in the free posing round is no longer judged...Bob's reasoning was it was never being judged, it was just another muscularity round....Why not hold judges accountable?
It's akin to people breaking a law and instead of enforcing it, it gets changed.
Judging the posing round the way it was meant to be judged would bring a little class back into the sport...BTW some of Kai's shit would be penalized....CLASS.
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He is Total-Lee awesome...What a great guy that embodies excellence and integrity. Thanks for posting.
He sure is right on....That go-go dancing and homoerotic garbage needs to go. It's embarrassing.
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While Bob has addressed the issue, the answer was pathetic....
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There have been a few times someone would be losing the first few rounds and come back in the posing round and win the show. Ronnie won that way in 2001.
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The posing round and the posedown are no longer scored. Bob's announced that the top 15 will now be compared at the night show vs. just the top 6 this year. That was the right move. Essentially though, it's one giant pre-judging now. 50% scored on the first day and 50% on the second. Can't we just get this done in one show now? Especially at the smaller shows, there's no reason for the pre-judging + finals format.
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If they judged posing and presentation and made it a competitive part of the event, you would see the competitors' presentations - their routines as well their total onstage demeanour - improve dramatically.
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The posing round and the posedown are no longer scored. Bob's announced that the top 15 will now be compared at the night show vs. just the top 6 this year. That was the right move. Essentially though, it's one giant pre-judging now. 50% scored on the first day and 50% on the second. Can't we just get this done in one show now? Especially at the smaller shows, there's no reason for the pre-judging + finals format.
Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.
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If they judged posing and presentation and made it a competitive part of the event, you would see the competitors' presentations - their routines as well their total onstage demeanour - improve dramatically.
Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically. Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.
With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.
Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.
Want better, thought inspired routines? Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc... These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...
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Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.
What do you mean money is one of the reasons?
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What do you mean money is one of the reasons?
That means while being ONE singular reason, there are many others.... ::)
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He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
A class guy he is from Spartanburg SC very "down to earth" met him a few times. One one the best before the waist sizes increased.
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Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.
I understand it's really done for money, but it could be coordinated in one day. Start with the posing routines for a first look by the judges, then go right into comparisons and get down to the judging process. I think it would be far more exciting than the current format and give more credibility to the judges. Time is of no concern, this could all be done in 2-2.5 hours, depending on the number of competitors. There would be an element of suspense that we don't see with the current format.
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I've been keeping up with this interview. It's pretty good. 8)
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Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically. Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.
Then quite frankly, the judges should just judge it as they see it. After a few odd placings, the other athletes with the better physiques but who don't display it properly will be forced to lift their game.
With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.
It's not as if those guys you mentioned had bad physiques...
I mean, if that is what the judges were doing, then surely that disqualifies them on grounds of ignoring the rules or something along those lines? I mean, directly judging a competitor's posing - and their ability to present their physique to its best advantage - and having that judgement directly affect the competitors placing - would surely send a strong signal to the competitors to improve their presentation. Surely that would improve the overall image of the sport?
Also, if you are worried about really poor physiques sneaking ahead because of excellent posing, make some kind of rule where the free posing round applies only to those who make the finals. Not only would you save time but you would also raise the 'excitement' levels as how the finalists pose would directly and dramatically affect their final placings. After all, once you've made the finals, chances are, you have a pretty good physique which isnt going to change much in one round. At that point in the judging, free posing would really up the ante.
Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.
The other subjective, artistic type sports type sports seem to be able to deal with it. Why not bodybuilding?
Want better, thought inspired routines? Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc... These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...
The prize money at most professional shows hasn't risen in years. Given the apparent costs involved in competing... well, I have a feeling that prize money is not the main motivation. In anycase, if you have extra money to give to the best poser, why not add that money to the overall prize money for PLACING in a contest. If posing helps to improve your placing - and thereby earn more money - then surely that is the more sensible (and sports-minded) approach?
Again, thanks for responding.
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He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
Wow, Wiggs your schome skills in finding this video are impressive.
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Then quite frankly, the judges should just judge it as they see it. After a few odd placings, the other athletes with the better physiques but who don't display it properly will be forced to lift their game.
It's not as if those guys you mentioned had bad physiques...
I mean, if that is what the judges were doing, then surely that disqualifies them on grounds of ignoring the rules or something along those lines? I mean, directly judging a competitor's posing - and their ability to present their physique to its best advantage - and having that judgement directly affect the competitors placing - would surely send a strong signal to the competitors to improve their presentation. Surely that would improve the overall image of the sport?
I think you're missing the point here...the guys with the better routines were NOT scored as such...thats the whole argument...that a Kevin LeVrone should have beaten Ronnie Coleman based on the fact that he would have scored first in the posing round...
Also, if you are worried about really poor physiques sneaking ahead because of excellent posing, make some kind of rule where the free posing round applies only to those who make the finals. Not only would you save time but you would also raise the 'excitement' levels as how the finalists pose would directly and dramatically affect their final placings. After all, once you've made the finals, chances are, you have a pretty good physique which isnt going to change much in one round. At that point in the judging, free posing would really up the ante.
That would make it all but impossible to ever climb the ladder up the ranks...guys like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler who were dead last in their first Olympia may get blocked out for YEARS by better natural posers
The other subjective, artistic type sports type sports seem to be able to deal with it. Why not bodybuilding?
No they dont...and they're not even close to having the diversity we do...Ice skating, Gymnastics, diving...are all someehat handcuffed as they have specic criteria they have to do, which makes them somewhat restricted in their presentations... They also share the controversy in judging decisions as we do...
The prize money at most professional shows hasn't risen in years.
Yes, it has. Most notably the Olympia which is just under a Million in total purse, almost double what it was 10 years ago
Given the apparent costs involved in competing... well, I have a feeling that prize money is not the main motivation. In anycase, if you have extra money to give to the best poser, why not add that money to the overall prize money for PLACING in a contest. If posing helps to improve your placing - and thereby earn more money - then surely that is the more sensible (and sports-minded) approach?
Back to square one....when it CANT improve your placing for the various reasons I outlined, the motivation is gone. Prize money means a great deal to these guys, as many of them have bonus clauses in their contracts which pay a pretty good dollar, some matching it dollar for dollar actually
Again, thanks for responding.
Anytime, brother
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Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically. Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.
With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.
Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.
Want better, thought inspired routines? Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc... These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...
Now come on Bob!
We all know it'd be more accurate to sayKai's more like a Kenny Rogers, whilst Hide's a Streissand-esque poser
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I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION of the men. It's a mess nowadays.
Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps. That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.
Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques. Now it is an embarrassment.
The physiques look terrible and the presentation magnifies that even more so.
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I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION of the men. It's a mess nowadays.
Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps. That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.
Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques. Now it is an embarrassment.
He's right about the embarrassing spectacle of guys walking back and forth onstage asking for applause. That's just pathetic. Nasser and Titus use to be two of the worst with that. I'd like to see competitors use one song for their entire routine, no mix tapes. They need to look back at these classic routines and really learn how it's suppose to be done. Actually, I think current day female BB's are far better at putting a routine together than the men.
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I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION of the men. It's a mess nowadays.
Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps. That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.
Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques. Now it is an embarrassment.
The physiques look terrible and the presentation magnifies that even more so.
agreed
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He's right about the embarrassing spectacle of guys walking back and forth onstage asking for applause. That's just pathetic. Nasser and Titus use to be two of the worst with that. I'd like to see competitors use one song for their entire routine, no mix tapes. They need to look back at these classic routines and really learn how it's suppose to be done. Actually, I think current day female BB's are far better at putting a routine together than the men.
and agreed
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He's right about the embarrassing spectacle of guys walking back and forth onstage asking for applause. That's just pathetic. Nasser and Titus use to be two of the worst with that. I'd like to see competitors use one song for their entire routine, no mix tapes. They need to look back at these classic routines and really learn how it's suppose to be done. Actually, I think current day female BB's are far better at putting a routine together than the men.
Yeah that part made me laugh because I think that is lame too.
I think today's competitors have a hard time putting together a good routine that showcases their physique because there is a lot they have to try and hide. Trying to keep that bloated gut in check is hard work....never mind trying to make a masterful routine with artistry.
Straight women used to go to those shows...and yes they would get turned on if someone knew how to present their body. In all honesty, there is no reason why a straight woman wouldn't get turned on...posing is a very sensual thing. Lee Haney isn't the most facially handsome man ever....but his posing was indeed sexy. As was Shawn's ::)
Last time I went to a show the guest poser used loud rock music and it was just like a freak show. No beauty...the old ladies liked it I guess.
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(http://contests.flexonline.com/images/contests/large/103047.jpg)
>:(
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I think you're missing the point here...the guys with the better routines were NOT scored as such...thats the whole argument...that a Kevin LeVrone should have beaten Ronnie Coleman based on the fact that he would have scored first in the posing round...
Actually, that is the whole point. If the judges were doing their jobs, they would have scored Levrone first in the posing round, if posing is to be judged.
That would make it all but impossible to ever climb the ladder up the ranks...guys like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler who were dead last in their first Olympia may get blocked out for YEARS by better natural posers
Not necessarily. Those guys placed poorly because either their physiques were not good enough at the time or the judging was rewarding the wrong type of physique. If you are worried about poor physiques placing ahead of good ones because of superior posing, then the idea of limiting the posing round to those who make the finals (and the number of finalists need not be only six) may eliminate that problem because by that time, the best physiques can then compete with each other. Posing would be a good way of working out who is the best.
No they dont...and they're not even close to having the diversity we do...Ice skating, Gymnastics, diving...are all someehat handcuffed as they have specic criteria they have to do, which makes them somewhat restricted in their presentations... They also share the controversy in judging decisions as we do...
The big difference here is that those sports have an accountable and transparent judging and scoring system. In bodybuilding, the amount of information in the scoring process is basically unknowable. All people see is a number and those numbers have no connection with the criteria. In terms of at least making bodybuilding look accountable, fixing that up would be a step in the right direction.
As for posing criteria, that is not that much of a problem. There are various things that could be experimented with here: limit the number of poses, play with the amount of time permissible, set the type of poses allowed (eg, how many times can the mandatories be repeated in a routine etc etc)
One point, I think that gets overlooked is that good physiques, balanced phsyqiues, can pull off many more poses and still look good than a physique that is too big or lacks proportion. When Zane or Labrada pose, for example, they rarely repeat the same pose. Isn't that a sign of a quality physique? These days, the number and type of poses that the tops guys do seem limited - just most muscular variations and the mandatories. Most musculars are probably the easiest pose to 'look good' doing.
Yes, it has. Most notably the Olympia which is just under a Million in total purse, almost double what it was 10 years ago
Other than the Arnold and the Olympia, have the other shows been able to increase their prize money? I remember in the early nineties, the first place award was $10,000 for most of the circuit type shows. That's still the same, right?
Back to square one....when it CANT improve your placing for the various reasons I outlined, the motivation is gone. Prize money means a great deal to these guys, as many of them have bonus clauses in their contracts which pay a pretty good dollar, some matching it dollar for dollar actually
This actually supports my point. By making posing something that CAN affect placing, then surely the competitors will make the effort to improve it in order to place better?
Again, thanks for responding. I appreciate you taking the time to at least consider the points I am trying to raise.
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Actually, that is the whole point. If the judges were doing their jobs, they would have scored Levrone first in the posing round, if posing is to be judged.
No.
Because every round is a physique round. This means that every aspect of the criteria is judged at every round.
This is how the best poser can lose the posing round.
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No.
Because every round is a physique round. This means that every aspect of the criteria is judged at every round.
This is how the best poser can lose the posing round.
Of course. That's why IF the judges were judging it on posing, then the best poser would win that round.
What they should have done was weighted the scoring in the posing round to favour the posing side of things more so than everything else. In anycase, good posing, with a good selection of suitable poses make a physique look much better.
Poses ought to match the lines of a physique and good judges ought to be able to see when a pose and the physique behind it go well together. Dance moves and acrobatics don't, or rarely, highlight the physique and its lines. Kai Greene could be one of the great posers if he just stopped the acrobatic stuff. Some of his poses and transitions, however, really match his lines and muscularity. Labrada was another whose poses pretty much always matched his physique.
The posing round ought to allow the competitor to display his physique using other poses besides the mandatories. Some of the greatest poses of all time were not mandatory poses - Sergios's victory pose, Arnold's 3/4 back pose, Zane's vaccuum shot etc.
These kinds of poses ought to somehow be allowed to make a difference in competiton. All they have now, really, are most musculars after most musculars after most musculars...
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Of course. That's why IF the judges were judging it on posing, then the best poser would win that round.
What they should have done was weighted the scoring in the posing round to favour the posing side of things more so than everything else. In anycase, good posing, with a good selection of suitable poses make a physique look much better.
Poses ought to match the lines of a physique and good judges ought to be able to see when a pose and the physique behind it go well together. Dance moves and acrobatics don't, or rarely, highlight the physique and its lines. Kai Greene could be one of the great posers if he just stopped the acrobatic stuff. Some of his poses and transitions, however, really match his lines and muscularity. Labrada was another whose poses pretty much always matched his physique.
The posing round ought to allow the competitor to display his physique using other poses besides the mandatories. Some of the greatest poses of all time were not mandatory poses - Sergios's victory pose, Arnold's 3/4 back pose, Zane's vaccuum shot etc.
These kinds of poses ought to somehow be allowed to make a difference in competiton. All they have now, really, are most musculars after most musculars after most musculars...
agreed
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Of course. That's why IF the judges were judging it on posing, then the best poser would win that round.
What they should have done was weighted the scoring in the posing round to favour the posing side of things more so than everything else. In anycase, good posing, with a good selection of suitable poses make a physique look much better.
Poses ought to match the lines of a physique and good judges ought to be able to see when a pose and the physique behind it go well together. Dance moves and acrobatics don't, or rarely, highlight the physique and its lines. Kai Greene could be one of the great posers if he just stopped the acrobatic stuff. Some of his poses and transitions, however, really match his lines and muscularity. Labrada was another whose poses pretty much always matched his physique.
The posing round ought to allow the competitor to display his physique using other poses besides the mandatories. Some of the greatest poses of all time were not mandatory poses - Sergios's victory pose, Arnold's 3/4 back pose, Zane's vaccuum shot etc.
These kinds of poses ought to somehow be allowed to make a difference in competiton. All they have now, really, are most musculars after most musculars after most musculars...
You make a good point here, but if the judges would place more emphasis on the posing aspect of the posing round, they should also do the same with the symmetry and muscularity rounds respectively. This would mean a complete change to the judging procedure and would make it a bit more difficult to determine an overall winner.
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You make a good point here, but if the judges would place more emphasis on the posing aspect of the posing round, they should also do the same with the symmetry and muscularity rounds respectively. This would mean a complete change to the judging procedure and would make it a bit more difficult to determine an overall winner.
There was actually no such thing as the symmetry and muscularity rounds. This is a popular misconception. It was just round 1 and round 2. Even if the posing round is not scored, we should have some basic rules to it. Start with no repeat poses and no dancing. That right there would force them to put some thought into it. Can you imagine Ronny Rockell trying to pose while being limited to one most muscular, ha, ha.
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There was actually no such thing as the symmetry and muscularity rounds. This is a popular misconception. It was just round 1 and round 2. Even if the posing round is not scored, we should have some basic rules to it. Start with no repeat poses and no dancing. That right there would force them to put some thought into it. Can you imagine Ronny Rockell trying to pose while being limited to one most muscular, ha, ha.
Tha's interesting, I didn't know that.
The posing round should have some basic rules as you say, I mean look at how it has declined in the last years.
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You make a good point here, but if the judges would place more emphasis on the posing aspect of the posing round, they should also do the same with the symmetry and muscularity rounds respectively. This would mean a complete change to the judging procedure and would make it a bit more difficult to determine an overall winner.
That's the whole point.
Of course, the symmetry and muscularity rounds are not solely 'symmetry' and 'muscularity' rounds but one of the points I am trying to make is that the judging process should be able to tell fans, competitors AND other judges what is being favoured when judged.
If that means breaking up the rounds into solely symmetry and muscularity rounds, fine. If that means having a scorecard that is broken up in points for each criteria for each round or mandatory pose (or whatever), fine too.
The idea of things being too difficult and what not don't ring with me. I mean, as they say, you can put a man on the moon...
When it comes to posing, why not get some of the top posers from the past, (professional or amateur), people that everyone agrees upon as being great posers and get them to work out a system for judging, for training judges on how to look at posing.
I mean, seriously, we all know who the great posers are. It can't be that difficult for a judge to know what is good posing and what is bad posing. If a judge is unable to tell when a pose suits a physique than what on earth are they doing judging in the first place?
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dissapointing handshake
they should have tried again
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There was actually no such thing as the symmetry and muscularity rounds. This is a popular misconception. It was just round 1 and round 2. Even if the posing round is not scored, we should have some basic rules to it. Start with no repeat poses and no dancing. That right there would force them to put some thought into it. Can you imagine Ronny Rockell trying to pose while being limited to one most muscular, ha, ha.
What are you talking about and when?
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Ok i'll say it...I don't like Lee's overall structure. Something about his physique completely throws me off.
Maybe the abs, the flow, proportions...Great guy though, very well spoken and he deserved his titles. Much more than his successors.
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Of course. That's why IF the judges were judging it on posing, then the best poser would win that round.
What they should have done was weighted the scoring in the posing round to favour the posing side of things more so than everything else. In anycase, good posing, with a good selection of suitable poses make a physique look much better.
Poses ought to match the lines of a physique and good judges ought to be able to see when a pose and the physique behind it go well together. Dance moves and acrobatics don't, or rarely, highlight the physique and its lines. Kai Greene could be one of the great posers if he just stopped the acrobatic stuff. Some of his poses and transitions, however, really match his lines and muscularity. Labrada was another whose poses pretty much always matched his physique.
The posing round ought to allow the competitor to display his physique using other poses besides the mandatories. Some of the greatest poses of all time were not mandatory poses - Sergios's victory pose, Arnold's 3/4 back pose, Zane's vaccuum shot etc.
These kinds of poses ought to somehow be allowed to make a difference in competiton. All they have now, really, are most musculars after most musculars after most musculars...
judges don't judge rounds solely on their names , muscularity isn't judged as a sole entity in the muscularity round and neither is symmetry in the symmetry rounds or posing in the posing rounds. All rounds are physique rounds
just because one guy has a clear advantage in part of the criteria doesn't mean he should win the entire round despite how it's named. in the muscularity round they are judging muscularity , muscular size , muscular balance & proportion , density , dryness , posing as well ALL at the same time to determine who meets ALL of this criteria better than the other guy , same holds true in the symmetry round , or the posing rounds ( round now )
the best poser should NOT win the posing rounds if that's all he has , the most symmetrical guy should NOT win the symmetry round if that's all he has , it's who meets all of the criteria at once who is usually determined the winner
the judges are looking at who is carrying the most muscular bulk in the posing round , who is the hardest and driest , who has the best balance & proportion , who can hold a pose effectively and display his physique to it's best light , they do this in every round , the names of the rounds for all intents & purposes are useless and kept most likely out of tradition
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Yes, I understand that.
With that being the case though, the problem then becomes one of accountability and transparency in the judging process. Just how much is each part of the criteria worth? Why doesn't the scorecard have that kind of information?
Posing is highly under appreciated in bodybuilding now and I think that there should be a way to make it a decding factor in differentiating between two or more otherwise similar physiques.
Posing is an untapped gold mine for bodybuilding as a sport.
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lol @ Mohammad Makawway (sp?) being called the magical Egyptian in the beginning.
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3564-lee-haney-on-why-he-stopped-at-8-mr-olympia-titles.html
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Trey Brewer won't recover
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By the way, before I forget, excellent interviews with Lee Haney. His persona is so different from any of the other interviewees.
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What are you talking about and when?
Round 1 was quarter turns and round 2 was mandatory poses. People often referred to these as the symmetry and muscularity rounds, but they were officially just round 1 & round 2, different ways of comparing the competitors. Like you mentioned, it was the overall package the judges were looking for at all times, rather it was quarter turns, mandatories, or the posing routine.
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Lee owned the hell out of alot of people in these interviews...I wonder what Lee would say about Kai? ;D
It would be nice if Lee took a more active role in trying to fix some of this shit...I enjoy listening to him speak...Not all people from the south have to sound like blithering idiots (Ronald)
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they look so happy together
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.
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All the way thick chest. 8)
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Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically. Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.
With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.
Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.
Want better, thought inspired routines? Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc... These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...
you can't be wrong...so come up with a BS explanation for everything.
1. the posing round should be worth about 20% of the total score so a guy just cant jump from 4th - 1st on posing alone. you guys figure out the numbers.
2. why are people paying for the 2nd night when it dont mean anything. the hell with the pose down counting as 50%...given it's BS vs the individual round. nice going...chick...but then again...you know more than lee haney.
i'd like to throw some more salt in the wound.
1. how you figure a woman as small and shapely as cheryl brown should be in wpd since she is literally the definition of FIGURE/SHAPE?
2. how does a transplanted figure competitor win the 1st ever Bikini O over the 2 front runners. yes...she changed her physique but her arms are still as hard as the figure girls. excellent judging since the head judge said they are looking for softness.
;D
i know i like to be your nemesis enforcer.
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Round 1 was quarter turns and round 2 was mandatory poses. People often referred to these as the symmetry and muscularity rounds, but they were officially just round 1 & round 2, different ways of comparing the competitors. Like you mentioned, it was the overall package the judges were looking for at all times, rather it was quarter turns, mandatories, or the posing routine.
When? round 3 was also known as the posing round and round 4 was the pose down it's always been this way until recently when they combined the posing rounds.
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they look so happy together
:-X