Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on October 21, 2010, 06:23:32 AM
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Like most men, I enjoy looking at a pretty, sexy girl in a skimpy bikini. The new bikini division and woman's figure comprised at least 2/3 of the entrants at the recent NPC nationals. These new divisions seem popular and have fit, attractive females featured on stage.
So what's the problem? Simple. It isn't BODYBUILING. It's a swimsuit contest. The majority of those on stage at this years NPC nationals were NOT bodybuilders. Both male and female bodybuilders have used more extreme levels of drugs, starting in the 1960's with moderate usegage. With the top female pros this increase in androgenic compounds have caused the top place winners to look less female.
Despite this UN- natural* look, the judges kept picking the big freaky girls over more feminine ones. Bob Chick is right, this result has plenty of places to put the blame. The reality is that this UN-natural* look is the direct result of extreme drug use. ( *spelling intended for effect). If you stopped the extreme drug use, you wouldn't get the extreme androgenic look. The females could be on stage as flexing BODYBUILDERS and not some diluted down version of it.
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Yeah Howie cause all the men have a natural look ::)....I see what you're saying though. :D
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the bottom line howard is the ifbb and npc dont have a clue
bikini is pretty much defined. the only judging problem is dealing with girls with big rear ends like melo.
fitness - it's all about the routine. there's nothing to think about vs the other categories.
figure vs wpd - these two are going to be fucked up. there's no way around it. chick told a female bber in the other thread that she should do a wpd show about 2 weeks. then...chick says cheryl brown is a good fit for wpd. do you see the problem? cheryl brown cant be compared to a bber in off-season let alone 2 weeks.
the lazy ass ifbb and npc needs to develop catalogs of physique types for these two division.
if the commadores are correct about figures...then cheryl brown is a brick house and her curves are template for a woman in figure. how the f##k can you put her in wpd with tone down bbers i will never know? and i'll go back again and say erin is an excellent fit for figure.
so...who ends up in wpd?
(http://anngruber.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cherylbrown.jpg)
figure for sure
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387729;image)
medina is the template for wpd, definitely a cut above erin and cheryl but not there as far as bbing goes.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387756;image)
i'd say you'd have to tone down this physique because she is pushing it more than medine but is for good wpd
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387792;image)
2 wks out and she could do a wpd show. ::)
no way...given she is pushing the envelope and would move the division back to iris. she would have to bring her physique in line with an
ava cowan
monica brant could be a good fit for wpd...given the figure judges said she was too hard.
anyway...get off of your lazy asses and build physique catalogs based on the best structures and study those, look over those before each show.
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shit...manion spends a million on printing for the npc ::). how the hell he cant get this done ?
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Yeah Howie cause all the men have a natural look ::)....I see what you're saying though. :D
I agree tthe men are just as extreme with the drugged look, no question.
It just doesn't look as absurd on the men for whatever reason.
I say, stick with the actual rules and try to keep the drug use down to minimum levels and under some kind of control.
G-thang- They don't even display scores-placements, so obviously, they ae not going to have objective , standards and rules.
You are a St Aug man, so you can THINK, unlike some of those in BB.
Bob is a smart guy, but by avoiding the drug issue via another new category, just sweeps it under the rug
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Back in the olden days didn't they have beauty pageants along with the bodybuilding shows? I mean back in the 50's and 60's.
Bikini sells well and more people can do it unlike figure which has really evolved into lightweight female bodybuilding...when fitness first started in the late 80's early 90's, they looked more like the bikini girls now.
The problem is simply the judging Howard. It seems with every single division within a few years the physiques evolve into an extreme and they come up with another gimmick to tone things down. I was saying, "What is going to happen when they turn bikini back into figure?" Where will they go from there?
This new men's division is silly as well. Why don't they just face reality and stop scoring the men's division in favor of physiques that are blocky, ugly, and have guts.
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The problem is simply the judging Howard. It seems with every single division within a few years the physiques evolve into an extreme and they come up with another gimmick to tone things down. I was saying, "What is going to happen when they turn bikini back into figure?" Where will they go from there?
This new men's division is silly as well. Why don't they just face reality and stop scoring the men's division in favor of physiques that are blocky, ugly, and have guts.
Too late, they've already turned bikini back into figure. By giving the Olympia title to Sonia Gonzales, a former figure competitor, the judges are already sending the message to girls like Amanda Latona to "step it up". In a non-IFBB bikini contest, Gonzales would not have won that show.
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Back in the olden days didn't they have beauty pageants along with the bodybuilding shows? I mean back in the 50's and 60's.
Bikini sells well and more people can do it unlike figure which has really evolved into lightweight female bodybuilding...when fitness first started in the late 80's early 90's, they looked more like the bikini girls now.
The problem is simply the judging Howard. It seems with every single division within a few years the physiques evolve into an extreme and they come up with another gimmick to tone things down. I was saying, "What is going to happen when they turn bikini back into figure?" Where will they go from there?
This new men's division is silly as well. Why don't they just face reality and stop scoring the men's division in favor of physiques that are blocky, ugly, and have guts.
Bob already laid out the idea that we have plenty of blame to go around and obviously the judges were a part of that.
I can tell ya from personal experience that if you try to judge by the letter of the rules, your scores and placement might be the ones thrown out when they drop the high and low. ;-)
NOBODY seem to want to deal honestly with the drug issue or or even talk about it in a position of authority, THAT is the big problem.
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the bottom line howard is the ifbb and npc dont have a clue
We have a clue, but we also have a lot of considerations when were looking at dealing with a problem head on, and a sport thats been around (and spiraled out of control) since 1980
bikini is pretty much defined. the only judging problem is dealing with girls with big rear ends like melo.
Not a problem for me...just put them in FIRST!! ;D
fitness - it's all about the routine. there's nothing to think about vs the other categories.
agreed
figure vs wpd - these two are going to be fucked up. there's no way around it.
Sure there is...they will be two DIFFERENT sports with two sets of different criteria...not a problem at all. Problem was, there wasnt a bookend at the other sider of figure...except for FBB, which is (was) too extreme.
chick told a female bber in the other thread that she should do a wpd show about 2 weeks. then...chick says cheryl brown is a good fit for wpd. do you see the problem? cheryl brown cant be compared to a bber in off-season let alone 2 weeks.
She shouldnt be able to be campared to a FBB...thats the whole point. You're alo assuming that some of the girls mentioned as possible examples would look the exact same way as they do now competing in figure....they wouldnt. If left to not have to scale it back for figure, they would be a bit more curvy/ fuller...enough to look nice, not enough to look masculine
the lazy ass ifbb and npc needs to develop catalogs of physique types for these two division.
We are
if the commadores are correct about figures...then cheryl brown is a brick house and her curves are template for a woman in figure. how the f##k can you put her in wpd with tone down bbers i will never know? and i'll go back again and say erin is an excellent fit for figure.
so...who ends up in wpd?
You're forgetting the one intricate part which sets them apart....posing. the art and display of the female physique will be what defines them....they not just doing quarter turns. Who ends up in WP? Women who want to enjoy training and competing, but not sacrifice looking feminine for the pursuit of muscle/ size/ conditioning...
(http://anngruber.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cherylbrown.jpg)
figure for sure
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387729;image)
medina is the template for wpd, definitely a cut above erin and cheryl but not there as far as bbing goes.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387756;image)
i'd say you'd have to tone down this physique because she is pushing it more than medine but is for good wpd
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387792;image)
2 wks out and she could do a wpd show. ::)
no way...given she is pushing the envelope and would move the division back to iris. she would have to bring her physique in line with an
ava cowan
monica brant could be a good fit for wpd...given the figure judges said she was too hard.
anyway...get off of your lazy asses and build physique catalogs based on the best structures and study those, look over those before each show.
?
shit...manion spends a million on printing for the npc ::). how the hell he cant get this done ?
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Like most men, I enjoy looking at a pretty, sexy girl in a skimpy bikini.
The new bikini division and woman's figure comprised at least 2/3 of the entrants at the recent NPC nationals.
These new divisions seem popular and have fit, attractive females featured on stage.
So what's the problem? Simple. It isn't BODYBUILING. It's a swimsuit contest.
The majority of those on stage at this years NPC nationals were NOT bodybuilders.
Both male and female bodybuilders have used more extreme levels of drugs, starting in the 1960's with moderate usegage.
With the top female pros this increase in androgenic compounds have caused the top place winners to look less female.
Despite this UN- natural* look, the judges kept picking the big freaky girls over more feminine ones.
Bob Chick is right, this result has plenty of places to put the blame.
The reality is that this UN-natural* look is the direct result of extreme drug use. ( *spelling intended for effect)
If you stopped the extreme drug use, you wouldn't get the extreme androgenic look.
The females could be on stage as flexing BODYBUILDERS and not some diluted down version of it.
Problem is, Howie...there is no way to put a cap on progress, and in BB (male or female) progress is getting bigger, more muscular, more conditioned, dryer, etc....
To hold back FBB to something no one will agree on as the "ideal look", is defeating at best and impossible at the least...this is like penalizing a runner because he was "too fast"..."well, you can be fast, just not THAT fast, so we decided to place you in 3rd..."??
As far back as 1982...within the first YEAR or two of modern WBB...there was already discussion as to how the women were becoming "too muscular" and how they could deal with that, and hjow they didnt want it to go in "that" direction....ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO...! There have been no less than 7 official attempts since that time, to "tone it down", scale it back, reduce it, make it more feminine, etc....
Bottom line is this: It doesnt work for the obvious reason that it CANT WORK.
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Problem is, Howie...there is no way to put a cap on progress, and in BB (male or female) progress is getting bigger, more muscular, more conditioned, dryer, etc....
Drug testing. That caps progress and stops it in it's tracks.
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Drug testing. That caps progress and stops it in it's tracks.
That has its own assortmnt of problems, issues, etc...
No need to test if the criteria dictates the result....if it's not BB, then it doiesnt follow the same criteria.
Translation: we can achieve the same result without having to open that can of worms
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Too late, they've already turned bikini back into figure. By giving the Olympia title to Sonia Gonzales, a former figure competitor, the judges are already sending the message to girls like Amanda Latona to "step it up". In a non-IFBB bikini contest, Gonzales would not have won that show.
Then what will they come up with next ???
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Then what will they come up with next ???
A pasties division? Pretty much anything to up the numbers and whore themselves out for more income.
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That has its own assortmnt of problems, issues, etc...
No need to test if the criteria dictates the result....if it's not BB, then it doiesnt follow the same criteria.
Translation: we can achieve the same result without having to open that can of worms
I understand on a very personal level how drug testing can be a nightmare.
I was an AAU official when they got sued by drug test failures in the Mr A 15 years ago.
They went bankrupt and the show ended. No more Mr America.
I would think that the IFBB could do drug testing properly,if they had to.
My main issue isn't that the NPC/IFBB has some extra classes of bikini or fitness, etc
It is the vast majority of the show at the NPC Nationals now .
It is going to be about 15% male bodybuilding and the rest some form of bathing suit contest. C'mon, don't piss on my leg and tell me its' raining here Bob hehehehe. :D
Oh well at least you provide some intelligent rationale for the new changes. I am just going to do my own thing and support what I enjoy.
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Then what will they come up with next ???
Sonia looks much different than when she won in the figure div....
Personally, I thought Amanda looked great and could have been higher...
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Problem is, Howie...there is no way to put a cap on progress, and in BB (male or female) progress is getting bigger, more muscular, more conditioned, dryer, etc....
To hold back FBB to something no one will agree on as the "ideal look", is defeating at best and impossible at the least...this is like penalizing a runner because he was "too fast"..."well, you can be fast, just not THAT fast, so we decided to place you in 3rd..."??
As far back as 1982...within the first YEAR or two of modern WBB...there was already discussion as to how the women were becoming "too muscular" and how they could deal with that, and hjow they didnt want it to go in "that" direction....ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO...! There have been no less than 7 official attempts since that time, to "tone it down", scale it back, reduce it, make it more feminine, etc....
Bottom line is this: It doesnt work for the obvious reason that it CANT WORK.
Well Bobert, in terms of men, when you describe progress as only more muscularity, conditioning, and the ability to get dry (two of which aren't even the result of gym time as much as it is who has the best guru) and leave out proportions, tie-ins, POSING and other things that have now become small details, well you get guys like Kai drugging it up and looking like a mess on stage...I know I give you a hard time on this stuff that's only because you are the only rep we (fans) can complain to and I'd like to see the sport return to it's glory day in the mid 90s...The funny thing is you guys have the power to do so but apparently don't believe there's much of problem...The difference between someone having a Hany Rambod or George Farrah in their corner and doing everything themselves can be the difference between 1st and 10th place...that's kind of sad when you think about it...Put in 12-16 weeks of prep and it's all down the tube cause Hany or George did or didn't dry you out...
As far as female bodybuilding goes, I remember the memo that came out in the last feeble attempt to tell women to tone it down...To sum it up it said, tone it down 20%....Fucking brilliant. Please show me a picture of 20% vs 19% or 21%....They really put a lot thought into that one. ::)...How about showing these broads an example so they can see it...Example a picture of Corey Everson in all mandatory shots or whomever they have in mind...Then anyone who shows up looking like the crypt keeper place them last or dq....it may take a couple shows or maybe the whole year but the message will be sent and these broads will comply...
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Sonia looks much different than when she won in the figure div....
Personally, I thought Amanda looked great and could have been higher...
instead of these apple and orange posts...go get the ifbb and the npc to build catalogs. that's the only way you will get this right. latona, anderson, and melo are your apex bikini. i havent paid much attention to gonzales or made comparisons...so i cant comment on her winning the bikini. i thought it was melo's show. btw the complaint on melo is her rear end and hard midsection...so how does a former figure with a hard midsection beat her ::)?
again with figure...why the hell is figure a shoulder contest when it's about a woman's FIGURE? two different generations and you get the same thing with anja langer vs cheryl brown...the brick house dimensions. you have to revamp figure before you are start talking about who goes in which area. and you can ONLY do that will a photo catalog...not some stupid ass book with 500 pages of instructions.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9vHBjgViiTQ/SluaMxBPdyI/AAAAAAAADw4/JqXQIiZYO8Q/s400/Anja-Langer.jpg)
(http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2010/results/europaSOC/ESC_3782.jpg)
get the damn structures correct first than worry about jan tana, and other BS criterias.
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Well Bobert, in terms of men, when you describe progress as only more muscularity, conditioning, and the ability to get dry (two of which aren't even the result of gym time as much as it is who has the best guru) and leave out proportions, tie-ins, POSING and other things that have now become small details, well you get guys like Kai drugging it up and looking like a mess on stage...I know I give you a hard time on this stuff that's only because you are the only rep we (fans) can complain to and I'd like to see the sport return to it's glory day in the mid 90s...The funny thing is you guys have the power to do so but apparently don't believe there's much of problem...The difference between someone having a Hany Rambod or George Farrah in their corner and doing everything themselves can be the difference between 1st and 10th place...that's kind of sad when you think about it...Put in 12-16 weeks of prep and it's all down the tube cause Hany or George did or didn't dry you out...
As far as female bodybuilding goes, I remember the memo that came out in the last feeble attempt to tell women to tone it down...To sum it up it said, tone it down 20%....Fucking brilliant. Please show me a picture of 20% vs 19% or 21%....They really put a lot thought into that one. ::)...How about showing these broads an example so they can see it...Example a picture of Corey Everson in all mandatory shots or whomever they have in mind...Then anyone who shows up looking like the crypt keeper place them last or dq....it may take a couple shows or maybe the whole year but the message will be sent and these broads will comply...
Great post!
If a girl who is ripped and has decent size and looks feminine (like this yrs national NPC champ), shows up , are they going to mark her last? If not the new WPD is back to square one.
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Well Bobert, in terms of men, when you describe progress as only more muscularity, conditioning, and the ability to get dry (two of which aren't even the result of gym time as much as it is who has the best guru) and leave out proportions, tie-ins, POSING and other things that have now become small details, well you get guys like Kai drugging it up and looking like a mess on stage...I know I give you a hard time on this stuff that's only because you are the only rep we (fans) can complain to and I'd like to see the sport return to it's glory day in the mid 90s...The funny thing is you guys have the power to do so but apparently don't believe there's much of problem...The difference between someone having a Hany Rambod or George Farrah in their corner and doing everything themselves can be the difference between 1st and 10th place...that's kind of sad when you think about it...Put in 12-16 weeks of prep and it's all down the tube cause Hany or George did or didn't dry you out...
As far as female bodybuilding goes, I remember the memo that came out in the last feeble attempt to tell women to tone it down...To sum it up it said, tone it down 20%....Fucking brilliant. Please show me a picture of 20% vs 19% or 21%....They really put a lot thought into that one. ::)...How about showing these broads an example so they can see it...Example a picture of Corey Everson in all mandatory shots or whomever they have in mind...Then anyone who shows up looking like the crypt keeper place them last or dq....it may take a couple shows or maybe the whole year but the message will be sent and these broads will comply...
i've already said this with women. THEY NEED PHOTO CATALOGS especially for the judges to study before every contest even at the neighborhood amateur level.
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i've already said this with women. THEY NEED PHOTO CATALOGS especially for the judges to study before every contest even at the neighborhood amateur level.
Look at the order of the postings...I said it first, ricky retardo...but yes, we agree.
BTW as long as you refer to me as" toby", I'll keep coming up with these little names for you.
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Great post!
If a girl who is ripped and has decent size and looks feminine (like this yrs national NPC champ), shows up , are they going to mark her last? If not the new WPD is back to square one.
Words like "ripped", dry, hard, diced, etc...will not be of any use in the WPD. Thats not the criteria thats being drawn up.
Key words would be feminine, athletic, tone, beautiful, graceful, etc...
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Words like "ripped", dry, hard, diced, etc...will not be of any use in the WPD. Thats not the criteria thats being drawn up.
Key words would be feminine, athletic, tone, beautiful, graceful, etc...
So Bob, are you going to respond or does the truth hurt that much?
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Well Bobert, in terms of men, when you describe progress as only more muscularity, conditioning, and the ability to get dry (two of which aren't even the result of gym time as much as it is who has the best guru) and leave out proportions, tie-ins, POSING and other things that have now become small details, well you get guys like Kai drugging it up and looking like a mess on stage...I know I give you a hard time on this stuff that's only because you are the only rep we (fans) can complain to and I'd like to see the sport return to it's glory day in the mid 90s...
As would I, my friend...it's a tough road to keep the guys in check, imagine it now for the federation to keep a handle on the girls! Same problem we have applies to both genders....it's tough to put a governor on progress, and in BB, that means those words you describe
The funny thing is you guys have the power to do so but apparently don't believe there's much of problem...The difference between someone having a Hany Rambod or George Farrah in their corner and doing everything themselves can be the difference between 1st and 10th place...that's kind of sad when you think about it...Put in 12-16 weeks of prep and it's all down the tube cause Hany or George did or didn't dry you out...
The "power" is in the judging, and it's very tough to take out the freak factor in a sport that is based on looking out of the norm.
As far as female bodybuilding goes, I remember the memo that came out in the last feeble attempt to tell women to tone it down...To sum it up it said, tone it down 20%....Fucking brilliant. Please show me a picture of 20% vs 19% or 21%....They really put a lot thought into that one. ::)
THat was the 7th attempt to bring it down to something respectable, it was the right idea, but th wrong application....20% needs to be the MAX awarded to muscularity by a preponderance of the scoring....80% going to symmetry, proportion, shape, tone, presentation, posing, beauty, etc...
...How about showing these broads an example so they can see it...Example a picture of Corey Everson in all mandatory shots or whomever they have in mind...Then anyone who shows up looking like the crypt keeper place them last or dq....it may take a couple shows or maybe the whole year but the message will be sent and these broads will comply...
There will be no doubt what these girls need to look like and whats expected from the panel...I'm on it like white on rice!
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Look at the order of the postings...I said it first, ricky retardo...but yes, we agree.
BTW as long as you refer to me as" toby", I'll keep coming up with these little names for you.
actually...i put "catalog" in the other 7 page thread 2 days ago...but yes...we agree.
dude...i so love calling you toby, guess i'll have to wean myself off of it. :(
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Words like "ripped", dry, hard, diced, etc...will not be of any use in the WPD. Thats not the criteria thats being drawn up.
Key words would be feminine, athletic, tone, beautiful, graceful, etc...
Bob if womans PHYSIQUE is really put in I would be 100% for it so long as they do regular BB poses.
I keep thinking back to Pumping Iron II, The Woman and how the judges kept rewarding the bigger and more ripped girls over a few years.
It was gradual creep from the 80's into the 90's but it changed and the judges NEVER enforced the feminine standards you outlined.
If we keep the same judges it "MIGHT" not work my friend. Your ideas and standards will only be as good as the judges that adhere to them.
8)I think some basic urine drug testing would work better and use the actual IFBB rules we already have on the books for judging and banned stubstances. 8)
Who knows, good luck, I sure as hell don't have all the answers and am just a blowhard fan sitting in Ga.
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Bob if womans PHYSIQUE is really put in I would be 100% for it so long as they do regular BB poses.
I keep thinking back to Pumping Iron II, The Woman and how the judges kept rewarding the bigger and more ripped girls over a few years.
It was gradual creep from the 80's into the 90's but it changed and the judges NEVER enforced the feminine standards you outlined.
If we keep the same judges it "MIGHT" not work my friend. Your ideas and standards will only be as good as the judges that adhere to them.
8)I think some basic urine drug testing would work better and use the actual IFBB rules we already have on the books for judging and banned stubstances. 8)
Who knows, good luck, I sure as hell don't have all the answers and am just a blowhard fan sitting in Ga.
It will be in, thats not debatable...it was voted on and approved...
They will do regular poses, just made more feminine...open handed, etc
routines will be routines, up to the competitor to do what they wish to display their physique
quarter turns, mandatory comparisons...
As for drug testing, impractical as you know from our past iscussions, but unnecssary if the judging is done correctly...dont reward a look that doesnt fit, and the girls wont show up with a look that doesnt fit...
Steroids will not help a WP athlete, only insure that they're in the last callout...
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Words like "ripped", dry, hard, diced, etc...will not be of any use in the WPD. Thats not the criteria thats being drawn up.
Key words would be feminine, athletic, tone, beautiful, graceful, etc...
i think its a disgrace that you ascribing gender roles to physique competition, that now women have to fit into some sexual archetype in order to compete
and not be judged on their physique development, but on sexuality, and on what men think they should look like
even the words your usin g as criteria, have gender connotation
lucky the IFBB/NPC only have a limited sphere of influence, cause the injustice they are doing to women is profound
will the new bylaws say things like "a true lady never breaks a sweat, and never exerts herself, and walks like she is balancing a phone book on her head"
if the bimbos that populate the IFBB/NPC had any dignity and pride, they would make a statement with a collective exodus from these arcane sexist organizations but they will let themselves get walked on like dumb whores
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It will be in, thats not debatable...it was voted on and approved...
They will do regular poses, just made more feminine...open handed, etc
routines will be routines, up to the competitor to do what they wish to display their physique
quarter turns, mandatory comparisons...
As for drug testing, impractical as you know from our past iscussions, but unnecssary if the judging is done correctly...dont reward a look that doesnt fit, and the girls wont show up with a look that doesnt fit...
Steroids will not help a WP athlete, only insure that they're in the last callout...
Are we seriously going with the notion that only the FBB and MBB are the ones doing drugs to get big or get into conditioning. UMMMMM very interesting concept to put that out there.
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Are we seriously going with the notion that only the FBB and MBB are the ones doing drugs to get big or get into conditioning. UMMMMM very interesting concept to put that out there.
Whether or not other females are on drugs isn't the question or the problem...What is the problem is the IFBB continuing losing money by dragging what has becoming a quite pathetic show of what can't even be considered females unless you saw what was in their pants and even then in most cases you'd question what you just saw....fucking disgusting and pathetic, now you can do you it on your own dime but you won't be rewarded for it.
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I'm more confused than ever now :D
I'm starting to lose the distinction between figure and the new WPD, other than the posing.
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I'm more confused than ever now :D
I'm starting to lose the distinction between figure and the new WPD, other than the posing.
There really is no distinction. If you want to keep it feminine and you want it to look like early '80s female bodybuilding, then figure is about the limit of muscularity. Fitness, figure, and physique will only be separated by routines, quarter turns, and posing. Unless the judges allow the WPD to be more muscular than Bob's leading on?
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Like most men, I enjoy looking at a pretty, sexy girl in a skimpy bikini.
The new bikini division and woman's figure comprised at least 2/3 of the entrants at the recent NPC nationals.
These new divisions seem popular and have fit, attractive females featured on stage.
So what's the problem? Simple. It isn't BODYBUILING. It's a swimsuit contest.
The majority of those on stage at this years NPC nationals were NOT bodybuilders.
Both male and female bodybuilders have used more extreme levels of drugs, starting in the 1960's with moderate usegage.
With the top female pros this increase in androgenic compounds have caused the top place winners to look less female.
Despite this UN- natural* look, the judges kept picking the big freaky girls over more feminine ones.
Bob Chick is right, this result has plenty of places to put the blame.
The reality is that this UN-natural* look is the direct result of extreme drug use. ( *spelling intended for effect)
If you stopped the extreme drug use, you wouldn't get the extreme androgenic look.
The females could be on stage as flexing BODYBUILDERS and not some diluted down version of it.
I know that i'm coming in out of nowhere and not following up on all the replies made on this thread but i need to reiterate that this is a thread where a "Straight" man is complaining about there being a "swimsuit contest" at a male bodybuilding show
AGAIN- "Straight" man!!!!!
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I am assuming that this new division will be a good home for LW bodybuilders.
But the part that's confusing me is that alot of figure competitors who do well now in figure are being posted up as examples of potential WPD physiques...along with pics of some 80s/retro FBB physiques. But the figure competitors are already bigger and harder than the 80s FBBs. Yet the WPD is supposed to be a step up from figure but a step down from BB?
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A STRAIGHT FUCKING MAN!!!!!!!!!
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I am assuming that this new division will be a good home for LW bodybuilders.
But the part that's confusing me is that alot of figure competitors who do well now in figure are being posted up as examples of potential WPD physiques...along with pics of some 80s/retro FBB physiques. But the figure competitors are already bigger and harder than the 80s FBBs. Yet the WPD is supposed to be a step up from figure but a step down from BB?
I would consider going to NABBA and jumping ship on the NPC if I was a female bodybuilder. They just threw FBB under the buss.
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I know that i'm coming in out of nowhere and not following up on all the replies made on this thread but i need to reiterate that this is a thread where a "Straight" man is complaining about there being a "swimsuit contest" at a male bodybuilding show
AGAIN- "Straight" man!!!!!
I am a closet schmoe and secretly want some she beast to pound me up the kiester with a big strap on while she insults my manhood 8)
LOL, not really, :P
The issue is % of time on stage . At this yrs nationals we had over 300 bikini and figure entrants and it took over 3hrs before we had the fist male BB on stage...and it was the NPC National bodybuilding meet and it was at least 2/3 NON bodybuilding.
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Look at the complete mess in both men's and women's bodybuilding because of stooges like Bob Chick. They could do drug testing but they choose not to. The government should shut down the IFBB and Pro Division for not testing for banned substances. That is the first requirement - strict testing for banned substances both at comps and out of comp.
Femininity is a psychological construct. This so-called quality doesn't exist in nature. We can only imagine the nonsense that will happen in the new physique division. Get rid of all breast implants. That should solve many of the aesthetic problems. Bob thinks posing with open hands is feminine? What a joke. Obviously the IFBB has learned absolutely nothing over the last 50 years.
Costumes have to be considered. Whoever chose the female ones used in bodybuilding did a bad thing for women's aesthetics. There is an area on the women above the thighs that has little or no muscle. So why reveal this area with high cut costumes?
If you collect a bunch of knuckleheads to judge contests with criteria made by stooges then you have a recipe for a complete disaster. I like the part where Bob states that it takes time for competitors to know how to look for the judges. Yeah, that is beautiful Bob! Maybe we can have official stooges going around telling the gals how they are progressing and if they are too much.
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Look at the complete mess in both men's and women's bodybuilding because of stooges like Bob Chick. They could do drug testing but they choose not to. The government should shut down the IFBB and Pro Division for not testing for banned substances. That is the first requirement - strict testing for banned substances both at comps and out of comp.
Femininity is a psychological construct. This so-called quality doesn't exist in nature. We can only imagine the nonsense that will happen in the new physique division. Get rid of all breast implants. That should solve many of the aesthetic problems. Bob thinks posing with open hands is feminine? What a joke. Obviously the IFBB has learned absolutely nothing over the last 50 years.
Costumes have to be considered. Whoever chose the female ones used in bodybuilding did a bad thing for women's aesthetics. There is an area on the women above the thighs that has little or no muscle. So why reveal this area with high cut costumes?
If you collect a bunch of knuckleheads to judge contests with criteria made by stooges then you have a recipe for a complete disaster. I like the part where Bob states that it takes time for competitors to know how to look for the judges. Yeah, that is beautiful Bob! Maybe we can have official stooges going around telling the gals how they are progressing and if they are too much.
does the pathos ever end......... ::) ::) ::)
lonely old misanthrope
(http://hankandwayne.com/images/labels/old_man_bitter_01.png)
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I would consider going to NABBA and jumping ship on the NPC if I was a female bodybuilder. They just threw FBB under the buss.
Nah... I like the direction that we're talking about for FBB, and I'm pretty sure that there's somewhere for me to compete in the IFBB. I saw a statment from Jim Manion that said there will be open-handed BB posing and no shoes in this division... so this is promising.
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i think its a disgrace that you ascribing gender roles to physique competition, that now women have to fit into some sexual archetype in order to compete
and not be judged on their physique development, but on sexuality, and on what men think they should look like
even the words your usin g as criteria, have gender connotation
lucky the IFBB/NPC only have a limited sphere of influence, cause the injustice they are doing to women is profound
will the new bylaws say things like "a true lady never breaks a sweat, and never exerts herself, and walks like she is balancing a phone book on her head"
if the bimbos that populate the IFBB/NPC had any dignity and pride, they would make a statement with a collective exodus from these arcane sexist organizations but they will let themselves get walked on like dumb whores
100% correct
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Are we seriously going with the notion that only the FBB and MBB are the ones doing drugs to get big or get into conditioning. UMMMMM very interesting concept to put that out there.
Thats not up for debate....
It's a certain LOOK thats being put on display, no one is throwing stones, or insinuating that the only ones using any supps are FBBers...
The CRITERIA will dictate what look is rewarded, I can guarantee you that taking gear will NOT help to meet the criteria of the new division...
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Thats not up for debate....
It's a certain LOOK thats being put on display, no one is throwing stones, or insinuating that the only ones using any supps are FBBers...
The CRITERIA will dictate what look is rewarded, I can guarantee you that taking gear will NOT help to meet the criteria of the new division...
Well Bob, if anyone can turn the sport around , you can, Not sure if this will work but I wish you the best.
I won't judge again and enjoy lifting and being in the gym, but won't offer any support for the new IFBB/NPC myself.
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I"ll toss this in here, especially since I see that Bob is reading this...
Does the IFBB, IFBB Pro League or the NPC (any of them) have a MISSION statement?... The names of these organizations suggest a purpose that would be embodied in respective Mission Statements.
At the risk of stating the oh so obvious, "Bodybuilding" and "Physique" suggest that these concepts would likely be clearly defined, governed, and/or the focus of the organization(s), as described eloquently by the mission statement (or a statement of purpose, or something of the like....) Sounds to me like something the Weiders might have done. (I've seen a Vision statement, but it really addresses lifestyle, not so much competition.)
If you've got a well-written mission statement (that's revised appropriately as needed), this kind of waxing and waning about basic things like what are essentially the RULES of the competition (physique criteria) don't occur: Can you imagine if referees just started awarding a 4 point shot to guys who could hit a jumper from behind the half-court line?... ("Wow, that was better than a three pointer - give those guys an extra point for that!" ) This isn't much different that the slowly creeping physique definitions in women's BB'ing... UNLESS, for instance, the mission statement supports the maximum development in terms of muscularity of women... (With a mission statement, even unusual questions that might be relevant now that might not have been 30 years ago, like even whether women bodybuilders are classified or defined as "women" biologically (chromosomes?...) or simply by being female in gender, could be answered if there is a mission statement which addresses this, one way or another. Mission statements are nice reference points when you're not sure what the hell to do...)
So, the philosophical complaints ("This physique shit ain't bodybuilding") vs. business arguments ("Hey, promoters with more entries can hold more shows so bring in the bikini competitors") could be a hell of a lot more easily resolvable by whether or not new divisions fall within the Mission statement. A mission statement that clearly defines bodybuilding might dictate that Bikini just isn't what the NPC is about, for instance...
I'll be PC here and say that at this point, it really does seem that creating new divisions (women's physique in the NPC) when old ones seem to fall out of favor (e.g., women's BB'ing) suggest that the organizations (NPC) might just be lacking in guiding principles that demand support and definition of the nature of the endeavor it proposes to govern. In other words, when the governing body of a particular endeavor can't decide what that endeavor actually is and stick to its guns, something's bass-ackwards. OTOH, if the NPC is just generally about creating competitive arenas / divisions for body comparison (without a focus on development beyond the ordinary), then heck, make 15 divisions if folks will step up to compete. Literally, without a mission statement, there could just as easily be a "hottest redhead" award and a "best buttocks award," etc. like at a wet T-shirt contest, and it might fit within the parameters of the NPC without guiding principles stamped out in black and white.
Anyone know if such a mission statement / statement of purpose once existed, does exist or, heck, might even be something the powers that be would consider deriving?...
-Scott
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I"ll toss this in here, especially since I see that Bob is reading this...
Does the IFBB, IFBB Pro League or the NPC (any of them) have a MISSION statement?... The names of these organizations suggest a purpose that would be embodied in respective Mission Statements.
At the risk of stating the oh so obvious, "Bodybuilding" and "Physique" suggest that these concepts would likely be clearly defined, governed, and/or the focus of the organization(s), as described eloquently by the mission statement (or a statement of purpose, or something of the like....) Sounds to me like something the Weiders might have done. (I've seen a Vision statement, but it really addresses lifestyle, not so much competition.)
If you've got a well-written mission statement (that's revised appropriately as needed), this kind of waxing and waning about basic things like what are essentially the RULES of the competition (physique criteria) don't occur: Can you imagine if referees just started awarding a 4 point shot to guys who could hit a jumper from behind the half-court line?... ("Wow, that was better than a three pointer - give those guys an extra point for that!" ) This isn't much different that the slowly creeping physique definitions in women's BB'ing... UNLESS, for instance, the mission statement supports the maximum development in terms of muscularity of women... (With a mission statement, even unusual questions that might be relevant now that might not have been 30 years ago, like even whether women bodybuilders are classified or defined as "women" biologically (chromosomes?...) or simply by being female in gender, could be answered if there is a mission statement which addresses this, one way or another. Mission statements are nice reference points when you're not sure what the hell to do...)
So, the philosophical complaints ("This physique shit ain't bodybuilding") vs. business arguments ("Hey, promoters with more entries can hold more shows so bring in the bikini competitors") could be a hell of a lot more easily resolvable by whether or not new divisions fall within the Mission statement. A mission statement that clearly defines bodybuilding might dictate that Bikini just isn't what the NPC is about, for instance...
I'll be PC here and say that at this point, it really does seem that creating new divisions (women's physique in the NPC) when old ones seem to fall out of favor (e.g., women's BB'ing) suggest that the organizations (NPC) might just be lacking in guiding principles that demand support and definition of the nature of the endeavor it proposes to govern. In other words, when the governing body of a particular endeavor can't decide what that endeavor actually is and stick to its guns, something's bass-ackwards. OTOH, if the NPC is just generally about creating competitive arenas / divisions for body comparison (without a focus on development beyond the ordinary), then heck, make 15 divisions if folks will step up to compete. Literally, without a mission statement, there could just as easily be a "hottest redhead" award and a "best buttocks award," etc. like at a wet T-shirt contest, and it might fit within the parameters of the NPC without guiding principles stamped out in black and white.
Anyone know if such a mission statement / statement of purpose once existed, does exist or, heck, might even be something the powers that be would consider deriving?...
-Scott
I'm a little unclear, are you suggesting a mission statement? ???
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I'm a little unclear, are you suggesting a mission statement? ???
hahaha
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I'm a little unclear, are you suggesting a mission statement? ???
I KNEW there was a reason you were made Athlete's rep, Bob. :)
-S
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I'm a little unclear, are you suggesting a mission statement? ???
I guess we've also answered the question (or what was left of it) as to whether is there IS a mission statement for the NPC, IFBB or IFBB Pro League... <sigh>
I do thank you for the time and energy you put into the sport, in many ways, Bob...
-Scott
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The difference between someone having a Hany Rambod or George Farrah in their corner and doing everything themselves can be the difference between 1st and 10th place...that's kind of sad when you think about it...Put in 12-16 weeks of prep and it's all down the tube cause Hany or George did or didn't dry you out...
Although their clients are happy with the contribution the "guru's" make I haven't seen one of them setting a new standard in conditioning or consistency.
Yate, Levrone, Ray, Sonbaty, Priest and many others all had conditioning that would match anyone on stage today and
they also all had off days which is something the Guru's have not been able to prevent in the current crop of pro's,