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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: body88 on October 21, 2010, 09:59:39 AM
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Your expertise is needed.
What are the 5 hottest supps out there right now? Not specific brands....actual ingredients.
What would you consider the 5 essential supplements that are not whey, creatine and thermogenics?
Any insight would be much appreciated.
I took a spin through the top ten supps thread. That being said, I'm looking for real time feedback.
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I would think fish oil would have to be on the list.
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I would think fish oil would have to be on the list.
Great choice!
BCAA's, Arginine/NO2
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Agreed.
Imo, superba krill is far superior, but does not have the hype of fish oil.
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1,3 Dimethylamylamine
they are putting it in a lot of stuff now.....and i love the shit....
bench
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1,3 Dimethylamylamine
they are putting it in a lot of stuff now.....and i love the shit....
bench
Bench:
I picked up some of the Primaforce brand after reading your reviews a while back.
I like it a lot, but it doesn't seem to affect me the same all the time.
For instance, sometimes I take it with caffeine and it's SUPER!!
Other times, I see less effect with the caffeine than when I take it by itself.
It's not tolerance, either because it's not a one-way change.
I'm looking for "a" common denominator - taking it with food vs. empty stomach / drinking more water, etc., but can't find a pattern.
Do you ever find any irregular variances in sensitivity when using it?
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Bench:
I picked up some of the Primaforce brand after reading your reviews a while back.
I like it a lot, but it doesn't seem to affect me the same all the time.
For instance, sometimes I take it with caffeine and it's SUPER!!
Other times, I see less effect with the caffeine than when I take it by itself.
It's not tolerance, either because it's not a one-way change.
I'm looking for "a" common denominator - taking it with food vs. empty stomach / drinking more water, etc., but can't find a pattern.
Do you ever find any irregular variances in sensitivity when using it?
i find it works better on me when i have less water, and hydrate more while i workout, instead of before i workout...
bench
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i find it works better on me when i have less water, and hydrate more while i workout, instead of before i workout...
bench
Thanks.
Maybe I'm consuming too many fluids.
I load up on water before popping 2 capsules - 50mg leaves the mouth dry.
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Bench:
I picked up some of the Primaforce brand after reading your reviews a while back.
I like it a lot, but it doesn't seem to affect me the same all the time.
For instance, sometimes I take it with caffeine and it's SUPER!!
Other times, I see less effect with the caffeine than when I take it by itself.
It's not tolerance, either because it's not a one-way change.
I'm looking for "a" common denominator - taking it with food vs. empty stomach / drinking more water, etc., but can't find a pattern.
Do you ever find any irregular variances in sensitivity when using it?
Sometimes it makes me feel wired out and kind of weak? I also set a PR recently on 50 mg. Stuff is strange.
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Sometimes it makes me feel wired out and kind of weak? I also set a PR recently on 50 mg. Stuff is strange.
It's never had an adverse effect on me; it either helps or it doesn't.
But, when the stuff works, it's fantastic.
I usually take 50mg once/day, 2-3 days/week (more often, 2).
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Your expertise is needed.
What are the 5 hottest supps out there right now? Not specific brands....actual ingredients.
What would you consider the 5 essential supplements that are not whey, creatine and thermogenics?
Any insight would be much appreciated.
I took a spin through the top ten supps thread. That being said, I'm looking for real time feedback.
1. Cold pressed Linseed oil.
2. Vitamin C and E
3. L-Leucine in massive doses
4. Ecdysterone in massive doses - you need to take at least 3,000 mg of it a day for it to work but it does work.
5. Old fashioned creatine.
I could give you a much fancier list of stuff that is a lot more expensive and wouldn't work as well. Things like L-arginine for nitric oxide formation, 6-OXO and chrysin for aromatase inhibition, etc. None of these things work. They are gabage. Protein supplements are garbage as well. Most of the protein either gets broken down, stored as bodyfat or becomes fancy glucose via gluconeogenesis. You only need nine amino acids from the diet anyway with all other being manufactured at will by your body, and the amount needed to maintain nitrogen balance is only 0.7 grams per pound of bodyweight and not 1.5 to 2.5 like many magazines advocate. You only need as far as protein is concerned the amount to maintain your current mass and then a little more to build a little bit of muscle every day. Here is what the scientific research suggests does work as far as supplementation goes:
- Leucine in massive doses increases muscle protein synthesis beyond what a mere high protein diet is capable of.
- Ecdysterone in massive doses increases muscle protein synthesis via increased nitrogen retention, better and superior gene expression and by increasing creatine phosphate inside muscle cells.
- Omega-3 polynsaturated fats increase muscle protein sysnthesis by increasing nitrogen retention and insulin sensitivity. This is the reason why it also burns bodyfat.
- Good old fashioned creatine increases nitrogen retention by increasing muscle hydration. Increased muscle hydration increases the ability of the muscles to store glycogen which also increases your ability to workout.
these are the only supplements supported by hardcore scientific research shown to work. Everything else is fraudulent junk science with manipulated data to sell supplements.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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That’s interesting stuff, man.
I know at least one other moderator on this site who has said the same thing about Leucine.
If you have time later, some questions:
1.) Could you identify what constitutes “massive doses” of L-Leucine?
2.) Do you consider fish oil to be the superior source of Omega 3’s?
3.) Do you believe/know if there are people who truly do not benefit from creatine - i.e., non-responders?
I should specify what I mean by "non-responders."
The last question stems from the fact that I’ve tried several different creatine products ranging from mono to mixes containing ALA, arginine, etc., and I’ve never experienced any visible results.
Do you suspect I am still benefiting from the other mechanisms that creatine facilitates?
Also, is creatine as beneficial for trainers who follow a very low carb diet?
I know that we have an excellent creatine sticky, but I was curious what your personal thoughts are based on current information/knowledge.
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That’s interesting stuff, man.
I know at least one other moderator on this site who has said the same thing about Leucine.
If you have time later, some questions:
1.) Could you identify what constitutes “massive doses” of L-Leucine?
10-30 grams a day in 5 divided doses.
2.) Do you consider fish oil to be the superior source of Omega 3’s?
No, linseed is your best bet. The reasons for this is that the Omega-3 in fish become rancid and unstable after two to three hours after the fish is dead due to exposure to Oxygen. The polynsaturated fats in fish cause a lot of harm from increasing inflamation to the production of free radicals and dramatically increasing the need for vitamin E. Extra virgin linseed oil, conversely, is protected from exposure to Oxygen by the shell and it goes straight from inside the seed to the closed bottle so there is very little oxidation. Never exceed two spoonfull a day since polynsaturated fats unlike unsaturated and saturated ones cause an enormous amount of health problems when consumed in excess.
3.) Do you believe/know if there are people who truly do not benefit from creatine - i.e., non-responders?
I should specify what I mean by "non-responders."
The last question stems from the fact that I’ve tried several different creatine products ranging from mono to mixes containing ALA, arginine, etc., and I’ve never experienced any visible results.
Do you suspect I am still benefiting from the other mechanisms that creatine facilitates?
There is evidence that Creatine works via Sodium channels inside muscles to cause increased hydration and thus improved protein synthesis and glycogen storage. So your ability to utilize Creatine depends on your Sodium pumps and this is a genetic characteristic. I really don't know if there are other ergodynamic for Creatine. Maybe there are receptors that affect your ability to utilize this substance. There is evidence that Creatine works better on diets with abundant Sodium and Carbohydrates for obvious reasons. So try to take your Creatine with glucose and some salt.
Also, is creatine as beneficial for trainers who follow a very low carb diet?
No. A lot of Creatine's ability to increase muscle size results from it's ability to increase hydration which increases protein synthesis and the capacity for glycoogen storage. Without carbohydrates, you lose most of Creatine's anabolic effect since a lot of it is due to improved glycogen wchich spares protein and increases your ability to work hard.
I know that we have an excellent creatine sticky, but I was curious what your personal thoughts are based on current information/knowledge.
Creatine is great unfortunately it only works well for the first couple week when your water and glycogen stores in muscles swell. After that, the effect is small unfirtunately.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Thanks for taking the time to provide that detailed resopnse.
You've given me a lot of good information to think about.
Appreciate it!
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Isn't Leucine related to HMB in some fashion? I've heard there are some studies which have shown high doses of HMB to have a positive effect, even though most people have written off that supplement.
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HMB is a metabolite of Leucine.
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Isn't Leucine related to HMB in some fashion? I've heard there are some studies which have shown high doses of HMB to have a positive effect, even though most people have written off that supplement.
Yeah, HMB is beta-hydroxy-methyl-butyrate, a metabolite of leucine and it does work like Leucine in lower doses than what is required with Leucine. The reason why I recommend Leucine is because it is much cheaper than HMB and easier to find. Lots of people don't have access to HMB.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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4. Ecdysterone in massive doses - you need to take at least 3,000 mg of it a day for it to work but it does work.
- Ecdysterone in massive doses increases muscle protein synthesis via increased nitrogen retention, better and superior gene expression and by increasing creatine phosphate inside muscle cells.
Okay, on your recommendation, I read up a little on ecdysterone.
It sounds solid enough to be more than just the next "micronized methoxy-myo-wonder supp."
A product search didn’t turn up much, though.
Could you refer a reputable brand/product?
Please pm me if you’d prefer.
Thanks.
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also....ALA, and NAC
i take a lot of it..
bench
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and beer....at least one day a week i drink beer.....i honestly think it is the single best thing i have ever done..
bench
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Okay, on your recommendation, I read up a little on ecdysterone.
It sounds solid enough to be more than just the next "micronized methoxy-myo-wonder supp."
A product search didn’t turn up much, though.
Could you refer a reputable brand/product?
Please pm me if you’d prefer.
Thanks.
Ok, if you're going to take ecdysterone, then mega dose it. The reason why people assume it doesen't work is because of the doses. In the 1980s, they were selling acdysterone in 30 mg pills, which is a ridiculous dose. Even rats with a body mass a hundred times smaller than a Human's doesen't respond to this ridiculous amount of ecdysterone. Then around the turn of the century ecdysterone made a comeback with recommended doses of 300 mg a day, and that didn't work either except for a few people. 300 mg is low even for a single dose of the day. To work, you need at least 3,000 mg of it a day. I recommend 6,000 mg. Unfortunately, ecdysterone has a very short half-life, so you need to take it every few hours otherwise the anabolic effect wears of. Take it in 5 divided doses of 1,500 mg each. In these mega doses, ecdysterone is the closest thing to a steroid that you can get without a prescription and ruining your health. I believe that it gives gains comparable to small doses of weak androgennic steroids like oxandrolone.
As for brands, I am too lazy right now to search the internet, but you can get it from GNC and other health food stores. You can also order it online from the website of bodybuilding.com. Unfortunately, ecdysterone is not a cheap supplement and taking it in the doses that work requires you to take a bottle every three days or so, so look to be spending some money. Buy only brands that come with 300 mg per capsule, as any thing less than that will require you tot take four bottles a day to see any result. Also, eats tons of prootein when on ecdysterone. I usually don't reommend a high protein diet for mass gains because protein has a negative net calorie values, meaning that your body uses more calories digesting and processing the protein than there are calories there and also because too much protein decreases your serum testosterone levels, but in the case of ecdysteron you need to take mega doses of protein because it increases the protein synthesis and without lots of protein you are throwing your money away because your body cannot synthesize protein if there aren't abundant amino acid.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Your expertise is needed.
What are the 5 hottest supps out there right now? Not specific brands....actual ingredients.
What would you consider the 5 essential supplements that are not whey, creatine and thermogenics?
Any insight would be much appreciated.
I took a spin through the top ten supps thread. That being said, I'm looking for real time feedback.
I would say..
Fish oil
multivitamin
co-enzyme Q10
vit c
chondroitin and msm for bone health..
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Ok, if you're going to take ecdysterone, then mega dose it. The reason why people assume it doesen't work is because of the doses. In the 1980s, they were selling acdysterone in 30 mg pills, which is a ridiculous dose. Even rats with a body mass a hundred times smaller than a Human's doesen't respond to this ridiculous amount of ecdysterone. Then around the turn of the century ecdysterone made a comeback with recommended doses of 300 mg a day, and that didn't work either except for a few people. 300 mg is low even for a single dose of the day. To work, you need at least 3,000 mg of it a day. I recommend 6,000 mg. Unfortunately, ecdysterone has a very short half-life, so you need to take it every few hours otherwise the anabolic effect wears of. Take it in 5 divided doses of 1,500 mg each. In these mega doses, ecdysterone is the closest thing to a steroid that you can get without a prescription and ruining your health. I believe that it gives gains comparable to small doses of weak androgennic steroids like oxandrolone.
As for brands, I am too lazy right now to search the internet, but you can get it from GNC and other health food stores. You can also order it online from the website of bodybuilding.com. Unfortunately, ecdysterone is not a cheap supplement and taking it in the doses that work requires you to take a bottle every three days or so, so look to be spending some money. Buy only brands that come with 300 mg per capsule, as any thing less than that will require you tot take four bottles a day to see any result. Also, eats tons of prootein when on ecdysterone. I usually don't reommend a high protein diet for mass gains because protein has a negative net calorie values, meaning that your body uses more calories digesting and processing the protein than there are calories there and also because too much protein decreases your serum testosterone levels, but in the case of ecdysteron you need to take mega doses of protein because it increases the protein synthesis and without lots of protein you are throwing your money away because your body cannot synthesize protein if there aren't abundant amino acid.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Wow!!
Interesting...
Thanks!
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It's never had an adverse effect on me; it either helps or it doesn't.
But, when the stuff works, it's fantastic.
I usually take 50mg once/day, 2-3 days/week (more often, 2).
I got some of the Primaforce 1,3 Dimethylamylamine and gave it a shot. I don't know if it was all in my head after reading your post or not, but the first time I took it was great. Two pills, 50 mg worth, and I had a high level of energy and really worked out hard. It was a smooth and gradual increase, not a instant jump and there wasn't a crash like I get with caffeine. Basically like ephedra at a good dosage but without the shakiness or the heart pounding! I tried the same thing later in the week, but that time I didn't seem to get the same effect. It wasn't that it didn't work, it's just that it felt like it was about 50% as effective as the first time I took it (which was about four days earlier).
In your experimentation, have you ever tried either taking more (like going up to 75 mg) or taking it along with other stuff like caffeine/ephedra? If you've taken it with other stuff, do you recall the dosages of the caffeine or other stimulant?
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I would say..
Fish oil
multivitamin
co-enzyme Q10
vit c
chondroitin and msm for bone health..
I think you mean joint health
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I got some of the Primaforce 1,3 Dimethylamylamine and gave it a shot. I don't know if it was all in my head after reading your post or not, but the first time I took it was great. Two pills, 50 mg worth, and I had a high level of energy and really worked out hard. It was a smooth and gradual increase, not a instant jump and there wasn't a crash like I get with caffeine. Basically like ephedra at a good dosage but without the shakiness or the heart pounding! I tried the same thing later in the week, but that time I didn't seem to get the same effect. It wasn't that it didn't work, it's just that it felt like it was about 50% as effective as the first time I took it (which was about four days earlier).
In your experimentation, have you ever tried either taking more (like going up to 75 mg) or taking it along with other stuff like caffeine/ephedra? If you've taken it with other stuff, do you recall the dosages of the caffeine or other stimulant?
The most I’ve ever taken in one day (or at one time) is 50mg.
Tolerance to DMMA builds rather quickly, although I’ve noticed inconsistencies of effect that are non-tolerance related - i.e., I’ve actually experienced greater sensitivity to it after using it for a while.
The only thing I take it with is two strong cups of coffee.
I’m estimating that to be roughly 300mg of caffeine.
With that combo, one definitely enhances the other.
I haven’t stacked DMMA with any ephedrine/ephedra based products because the Dimeth really dries me out as it is.
I also try to avoid consuming an abundance of stimulants since I want to refrain from building a resistance and/or wrecking my CNS.
I function comfortably on my normal amounts, and on occasions when I need more, I can take it without problems.
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I think you mean joint health
:)
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The only thing I take it with is two strong cups of coffee.
I’m estimating that to be roughly 300mg of caffeine.
With that combo, one definitely enhances the other.
I'll add some caffeine to the mix and see how that goes. Tomorrow will be my third time taking it, so I'm still figuring out how it affects me. Thanks for the feedback!
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The most I’ve ever taken in one day (or at one time) is 50mg.
Tolerance to DMMA builds rather quickly, although I’ve noticed inconsistencies of effect that are non-tolerance related - i.e., I’ve actually experienced greater sensitivity to it after using it for a while.
The only thing I take it with is two strong cups of coffee.
I’m estimating that to be roughly 300mg of caffeine.
With that combo, one definitely enhances the other.
I haven’t stacked DMMA with any ephedrine/ephedra based products because the Dimeth really dries me out as it is.
I also try to avoid consuming an abundance of stimulants since I want to refrain from building a resistance and/or wrecking my CNS.
I function comfortably on my normal amounts, and on occasions when I need more, I can take it without problems.
i dont take the dimeth on weekends anymore.....sat, and sun i just let my shit re-adjust....then start it again on monday...
bench
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I'll add some caffeine to the mix and see how that goes. Tomorrow will be my third time taking it, so I'm still figuring out how it affects me. Thanks for the feedback!
Let us know how it goes.
I doubt you'd see any kind of tolerance after only taking it twice, but who knows?
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i dont take the dimeth on weekends anymore.....sat, and sun i just let my shit re-adjust....then start it again on monday...
bench
That’s cool; probably a good idea - at least, it can’t hurt.
Do you still take every third or fourth week off, and do you still alternate your doses?
I wish there was more research & info on this stuff.
I still don’t entirely understand the mechanisms through which it works.
It’s nothing we’ve covered in two years of physiology.
I just hope it’s not part of pathology by the time we start that!
:-X
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That’s cool; probably a good idea - at least, it can’t hurt.
Do you still take every third or fourth week off, and do you still alternate your doses?
I wish there was more research & info on this stuff.
I still don’t entirely understand the mechanisms through which it works.
It’s nothing we’ve covered in two years of physiology.
I just hope it’s not part of pathology by the time we start that!
:-X
nah, i just dont take it on the weekends anymore.....sometimes i wont take it on thurs, or fri either just to let it degrade a little more...
bench
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I'll add some caffeine to the mix and see how that goes. Tomorrow will be my third time taking it, so I'm still figuring out how it affects me. Thanks for the feedback!
Bro science at it's best.
SUCKMYMUSCLE