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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:11:09 AM

Title: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:11:09 AM
. edit - forgot to mention that the Repub plan would add ~ 36 billion to the deficit

people earing up to 200k will get a larger cut from Dems than from Repubs and even up to 500k the difference is negligible

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 10:23:39 AM
Straw - are you pissed off that obama is caving on the bush tax cuts? 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:28:25 AM
Straw - are you pissed off that obama is caving on the bush tax cuts? 

I haven't heard the latest but I've been unhappy with Dem caving since the beginning of 2009
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 10:32:13 AM
. edit - forgot to mention that the Repub plan would add ~ 36 billion to the deficit

people earing up to 200k will get a larger cut from Dems than from Repubs and even up to 500k the difference is negligible


well seeing as the savings rate is about 6.9% or so think of it like this

the tax cuts actually injects 33.514 BILLION INTO THE ECONOMY!!!!

but hey lets not let facts get in the way right?

more parroting liberal idiots making you look like the same straw
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:34:54 AM
well seeing as the savings rate is about 6.9% or so think of it like this

the tax cuts actually injects 33.514 BILLION INTO THE ECONOMY!!!!

but hey lets not let facts get in the way right?

more parroting liberal idiots making you look like the same straw


why do you always START with insults

so if we give millionares more money that will stimulate the econony

you got any source for these claims which you've called "facts"

Aren't rich people more likely to save or invest their extra money while middle class people are more likely to spend it
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 10:36:18 AM
To be dead honest - i really dont see the need to extend tax cuts to people making over 1 Million a year.  Most of those people have so many exemptions, gimmicks as it is.

What I would prefer is either a simple 3 rate structure w no exemptions or a flat national sales tax.  

We also need to drastically curtail spending.  
  

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 10:37:16 AM
why do you always START with insults

so if we give millionares more money that will stimulate the econony

you got any source for these claims which you've called "facts"

Aren't rich people more likely to save or invest their extra money while middle class people are more likely to spend it

Straw - the issue is that it is far better for savings and investmnts to be the basis of lending by banks as opposed to getting money from money printing at the fed. 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:39:18 AM
Straw - the issue is that it is far better for savings and investmnts to be the basis of lending by banks as opposed to getting money from money printing at the fed. 

fine but what does that have to do with the proposed compromise on the tax cut question

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 10:42:26 AM
why do you always START with insults

so if we give millionares more money that will stimulate the econony

you got any source for these claims which you've called "facts"

Aren't rich people more likely to save or invest their extra money while middle class people are more likely to spend it
LOL I didnt start with insults I started with facts...

LOL look up the annual savings rate and multiple that by the 36 billion you say the tax cuts will add to the deficit(OH BY THE WAY HAVE ANY SOURCES TO BACK UP THAT IDIOTIC CLAIM?) then subtract that amount as that would be the money that wasnt saved as in it was spent or invested...
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 10:44:59 AM
fine but what does that have to do with the proposed compromise on the tax cut question



Actually nothing other than the fact that any compromise on this will be re-visted withn a year or two due to the politics of it.   

Obama and the Dem congress should have dealt with this months ago and now its a complete cluster-F$%. 

 

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:52:16 AM
LOL I didnt start with insults I started with facts...

LOL look up the annual savings rate and multiple that by the 36 billion you say the tax cuts will add to the deficit(OH BY THE WAY HAVE ANY SOURCES TO BACK UP THAT IDIOTIC CLAIM?) then subtract that amount as that would be the money that wasnt saved as in it was spent or invested...

your first post includes:

more parroting liberal idiots making you look like the same straw[/b]

and you haven't provided any proof of your so called facts

let's see it
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 10:53:11 AM
Actually nothing other than the fact that any compromise on this will be re-visted withn a year or two due to the politics of it.  Obama and the Dem congress should have dealt with this months ago and now its a complete cluster-F$%.  

that's fine with me

If the Repubs want more tax cuts for the rich then let them write the new legislation
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 10:55:10 AM
your first post includes:

and you haven't provided any proof of your so called facts

let's see it
I know it did b/c you ARE...but i didnt start with insults I ended  :D ;)

you really think that the amount that isnt collected in taxes doesnt come back in some form for the most part? well if you do b/c youre a finance guy and should know that if youre not saving money youre spending or investing it...right? unless youre filling your mattress...

so do you really believe the 36 billion dollar number?
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 10:55:15 AM
that's fine with me

If the Repubs want more tax cuts for the rich then let them write the new legislation

We need to deal with reality.  I think the commission Obama appointed made a good first step in that direction.  Sure a lot of people are pissed  But economic reality must come into play here.

Straw, have you ever seen this site?  

www.usdebtclock.org

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 10:56:03 AM
your first post includes:

and you haven't provided any proof of your so called facts

let's see it
LOL you first Id like to see how you arrived at the 36 billion dollar number...
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 11:12:46 AM
I know it did b/c you ARE...but i didnt start with insults I ended  :D ;)
you really think that the amount that isnt collected in taxes doesnt come back in some form for the most part? well if you do b/c youre a finance guy and should know that if youre not saving money youre spending or investing it...right? unless youre filling your mattress...

so do you really believe the 36 billion dollar number?

first post included an insult

why should I bother trying to have an actual dialogue with you

like I said - who is more likely to spend the money ......the middle class and poor or the weathly

All we keep hearing about this economy is that jobs will come back when demand increase.....thus consumer spending must come first

btw - my number came from the Wahshington Post who say it came fromt the Joint Commitee on Taxation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/08/12/ST2010081200375.html

what's the source of your numbers again?
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 11:16:41 AM
first post included an insult

why should I bother trying to have an actual dialogue with you

like I said - who is more likely to spend the money ......the middle class and poor or the weathly

All we keep hearing about this economy is that jobs will come back when demand increase.....thus consumer spending must come first

btw - my number came from the Wahshington Post who say it came fromt the Joint Commitee on Taxation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/08/12/ST2010081200375.html

what's the source of your numbers again?

Straw - we don't want middle class people spending more money! 

We need people to save more money and get interest on their savings to form the basis of lending vs FED money printing schemes. 

Do you watch any of the Schiff vids I post? 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 11:20:04 AM
first post included an insult

why should I bother trying to have an actual dialogue with you

like I said - who is more likely to spend the money ......the middle class and poor or the weathly

All we keep hearing about this economy is that jobs will come back when demand increase.....thus consumer spending must come first

btw - my number came from the Wahshington Post who say it came fromt the Joint Commitee on Taxation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/08/12/ST2010081200375.html

what's the source of your numbers again?
LOL yes and how do they get that number straw?

you have to look at how they got the numbers, its like the CBO numbers on the health care bill which obviously werent accurate b/c of how they got them...
we may lose 36billion in taxes from individual income tax but how much of that money that stayed in the pockets of the citizens got put back into the economy?

thats the point...

you take such a simplistic view of it like the country as a whole just lost 36 billion well that money went someowhere bro...
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 12:47:16 PM
Straw - we don't want middle class people spending more money! 
We need people to save more money and get interest on their savings to form the basis of lending vs FED money printing schemes. 

Do you watch any of the Schiff vids I post? 

we absolutely want people to spend money

that's been the problem

people who are out of work can't spend money and people who are worried about their job won't spend much either

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
we absolutely want people to spend money

that's been the problem

people who are out of work can't spend money and people who are worried about their job won't spend much either




Yeah - just what we need - debt riddled people spending more money to finance consumption from products made in China.   ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 01:02:28 PM

Yeah - just what we need - debt riddled people spending more money to finance consumption from products made in China.   ::)  ::)

who said anything about debt riddled people buying products from China

this is basic stuff man

we want consumer spending to increase

that's the whole point of any type of stimulation

shit - that's the argument for extending the tax cuts
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
who said anything about debt riddled people buying products from China

this is basic stuff man

we want consumer spending to increase

that's the whole point of any type of stimulation

shit - that's the argument for extending the tax cuts

 ::)  ::)   

We tried that Straw - it did not work.    "stimulus" is fucking bullshit and always has been.    "Stimuluate" what? 

We don't need more consumption - we need more production.

We need less bullshit "green" jobs and other stupid shit in health care, and more factories, production , industry, etc in things that generate actual wealth.

   
   
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 01:16:04 PM
::)  ::)   

We tried that Straw - it did not work.    "stimulus" is fucking bullshit and always has been.    "Stimuluate" what? 

We don't need more consumption - we need more production.
We need less bullshit "green" jobs and other stupid shit in health care, and more factories, production , industry, etc in things that generate actual wealth.

you won't get increase in production until you have an increase in demand - aka - consumer spending and by consumer I'm talking about (by and large) the lower and middle classes.   If you give those people a tax cut or a wage increase (like increasing minimum wage) they will SPEND it
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 01:19:07 PM
you won't get increase in production until you have an increase in demand - aka - consumer spending and by consumer I'm talking about (by and large) the lower and middle classes.   If you give those people a tax cut or a wage increase (like increasing minimum wage) they will SPEND it

Sorry Straw - guess what - peoples health care costs - UP, food prices - UP, gasoline - UP,  local property taxes - UP.

WHY?    Inflation induced by the Federal Reserve and its money schemes to prop up an unsustainable fiscal model that is only getting worse with the likes of obamacare, the two wars, bloated federal govt, pensions out of control etc ec. 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 01:26:56 PM
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 01:31:39 PM
Straw - please refute this

Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 02:31:45 PM
Sorry Straw - guess what - peoples health care costs - UP, food prices - UP, gasoline - UP,  local property taxes - UP.

WHY?    Inflation induced by the Federal Reserve and its money schemes to prop up an unsustainable fiscal model that is only getting worse with the likes of obamacare, the two wars, bloated federal govt, pensions out of control etc ec. 

The Fed is more concerned about deflation at this point than inflation

Straw - please refute this



Consumer spending is still quite anemic

The Fed is more concerned about deflation than inflation

Schiff is simply wrong that saving money is going to help the economy.   It didn't do shit for Japan.

I'm not saying saving money is not good for an individual but it doesn't help the economy.

Back to the topif of this thread which is the Bush tax cuts.  If you give a tax cut to lower income people they will spend it and that can help stimulate job growth and lead to more spending and more growth.

employers are not going to hire more people and buy more inventory with the expectation that it will increase consumption.  It just doesn't work that way
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 02:34:16 PM
Straw-  how can people spend more money on consumer goods when they are left with nothing already due torising cost of livingin basic staples like, food, energy, health carem, taxes, education, etc? 

And so what if there is deflation in home prices?  We need to still correct at least another 30% to get to historical norms after the massive increase we had the last decade.   
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 02:35:32 PM
I'm not saying saving money is not good for an individual but it doesn't help the economy.


________________________ ________________________

True - in the short term is sucks for the economy - but in the long term it is better. 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 04:13:23 PM
I'm not saying saving money is not good for an individual but it doesn't help the economy.


________________________ ________________________

True - in the short term is sucks for the economy - but in the long term it is better. 

it sure worked great for the Japanese
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 04:23:02 PM
LOL yes and how do they get that number straw?

you have to look at how they got the numbers, its like the CBO numbers on the health care bill which obviously werent accurate b/c of how they got them...
we may lose 36billion in taxes from individual income tax but how much of that money that stayed in the pockets of the citizens got put back into the economy?

thats the point...

you take such a simplistic view of it like the country as a whole just lost 36 billion well that money went someowhere bro...
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 05:04:23 PM


like I previously wrote - the number came from the Washington Post who said it came from the Joint Committee on Taxation (http://www.jct.gov/about-us/overview.html)

where did your numbers come from again?
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 11, 2010, 06:50:06 PM
it sure worked great for the Japanese

Clueless - Japans' saving rate was not the cause of their problems. 
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 11, 2010, 07:09:44 PM
Clueless - Japans' saving rate was not the cause of their problems.  

I didn't say it caused their problems did I?

Their economy crashed in 1990 and their ethic for personal savings didn't do shit to help the economy

I think savings is great (I'm a chronic saver myself) but it's not a cure to any of our problem

The idea that if we all start saving money that the banks will suddenly have more money and start lending is also nonsense (not saying you believe this but just giving you an example)
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 11, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
like I previously wrote - the number came from the Washington Post who said it came from the Joint Committee on Taxation (http://www.jct.gov/about-us/overview.html)

where did your numbers come from again?
and how did they get those numbers brain child?

you took the CBO numbers on health care at face value and where did that get us???  ::)

how did they get the 36 billion?
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 12, 2010, 05:31:11 AM
and how did they get those numbers brain child?

you took the CBO numbers on health care at face value and where did that get us???  ::)

how did they get the 36 billion?

Even the head of the CBO is sayng ObamaCare is a compelte trainwreck
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: Straw Man on November 12, 2010, 06:49:52 AM
and how did they get those numbers brain child?

you took the CBO numbers on health care at face value and where did that get us???  ::)

how did they get the 36 billion?

I don't know where the joint committe on taxation got their numbers and I doubt you do either, especially since you not provided even one source for you numbers.....brain child

the point of this thread was the comparison of the Repub vs. Dem plan for the Bush Tax cuts
Title: Re: Bush Tax Cut Compromise
Post by: tonymctones on November 12, 2010, 11:21:16 AM
I don't know where the joint committe on taxation got their numbers and I doubt you do either, especially since you not provided even one source for you numbers.....brain child

the point of this thread was the comparison of the Repub vs. Dem plan for the Bush Tax cuts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/03/AR2010080305317.html
 
from your bastion of journalism straw...

so you dont know how they got the numbers? go here and see if you see anything in any of those publications about where the money goes...http://www.jct.gov/

i looked through 3 or 4 of the most recent and didnt see one aspect to cover that...

so lets say that they dont account for the money going back into the economy...

do you not understand that the tax cuts leave more money for ppl to spend? seeing as our annual savings rate is 6.4%