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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 05:57:52 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_democrats
House Dems stew over Obama's handling of tax deal
WASHINGTON – The struggle over tax cuts is seriously straining President Barack Obama's relationship with House Democrats, who have backed him on key issues even when it cost them politically.
Expressing hurt and bewilderment, Democratic lawmakers say Obama ignored them at crucial negotiating moments, misled them about his intentions and made needless concessions to Republicans.
The president has responded that he acted honorably and drove the best bargain he could. But even his explanations offended some longtime allies. Aides to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi passed around news accounts of a Dec. 7 news conference in which Obama claimed that some liberals would feel "sanctimonious about how pure our intentions are and how tough we are" by refusing to compromise, even if an impasse hurt the working class.
"Hardly anybody in the Democratic caucus here feels that the president tried hard enough to deliver on his campaign promises," said Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida, one of dozens of House Democrats defeated in last month's elections. Obama had House Democratic leaders "go through what turned out to be Potemkin meetings with his staff, when the real negotiations were being done elsewhere," he said.
Rep. Elijah Cummings, a Maryland Democrat who has strongly supported Obama and who won re-election last month, told MSNBC the chief House representative "wasn't even in the room, and we did feel left out" during the key tax-cut negotiations.
Hurt feelings can mend over time, of course, and it's not clear how much political damage Obama will suffer because of disenchantment among House members. His allies note that House Democrats will be in the minority in the new Congress, and it's essential for the president to negotiate with the newly ascendant Republicans to get things done.
Still, the estrangement is notable because House Democrats have been Obama's most dependable allies in his first two years in office. They passed a politically risky energy bill to cap greenhouse gasses, only to see the Senate ignore it. When the Senate refused to make further changes to this year's hard-fought health care overhaul bill, House Democrats swallowed their anger and pride, accepting big concessions to keep it alive.
Key liberal groups have attacked the tax plan, which would extend Bush-era tax cuts for two years for all Americans, poor and rich alike. It also would extend unemployment benefits and trim Social Security taxes for a year, steps most Democrats support. But the deal would tax large, multimillion-dollar inheritances at a rate lower than many had expected, and that infuriates many liberals.
Some of Obama's longtime allies have lashed out. Illinois Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. — who publicly chastised his famous father for criticizing Obama in the 2008 presidential campaign — said of the tax deal, "If we recklessly cut taxes for the wealthiest 2 percent, then Obamanomics will look an awful lot like Reaganomics."
The Congressional Black Caucus said its members "are overwhelmingly opposed to the president's compromise with Republicans."
Obama says GOP lawmakers held middle-class Americans hostage by vowing to tie up Congress — and thereby allowing everyone's income tax rates to rise on Jan. 1 — unless he met their demands to extend tax cuts for the wealthy for another two years.
"I know there are some who would have preferred a protracted political fight, even if it had meant higher taxes for all Americans," the president said last week. "I'm not here to play games with the American people or the health of our economy," he added. "My job is to do whatever I can to get this economy moving."
House Democrats are especially upset about a Dec. 6 White House meeting involving their party's leaders, Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, the administration's chief tax negotiator. Participants said Pelosi and one of her lieutenants, Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, knew the White House was nearing an agreement with Republicans, and they specifically objected to the proposed inheritance tax provisions.
Van Hollen says Obama and Biden indicated that no final deal had been cut. But shortly after the meeting ended, Obama announced the compromise reached with Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.
White House officials say some details were negotiated almost to the last minute. But accounts of the meeting angered many House Democrats, who voted two days later to reject the tax cut plan unless it is changed.
"We left that meeting with the White House indicating that they had not yet cut final details," Van Hollen said in an interview. Referring to the estate tax provisions, he said, "Republicans are gloating because they got a windfall of $25 billion for the wealthiest estates." That would be added to the deficit, he noted.
White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer told the Associated Press, "We have been talking to the Democratic leadership since prior to the announcement and will continue to work closely with them to ensure that this important package is passed into law so the middle class doesn't face a tax increase."
Van Hollen says more negotiations will occur when the tax measure reaches the House, assuming the Senate approves Obama's version this week. House Democrats "are determined to strip the most egregious provisions from the bill, especially the estate tax giveaway," he vowed.
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Ha ha ha ha - even Pelosi got rolled by this lying, thieving, piece of work.
If that asshole wil do this to membes of his own party - you fools think he wont do far worse to us?
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House Democrats are especially upset about a Dec. 6 White House meeting involving their party's leaders, Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, the administration's chief tax negotiator. Participants said Pelosi and one of her lieutenants, Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, knew the White House was nearing an agreement with Republicans, and they specifically objected to the proposed inheritance tax provisions.
Van Hollen says Obama and Biden indicated that no final deal had been cut. But shortly after the meeting ended, Obama announced the compromise reached with Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.
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HEHEHE!! I thought Republicans was supposed to be the divided party and Democrats the strong, united, one for all, all for one party. So much for that.
I guess it's easier to open threads about Boehner's crying than to face the reality that Obama and his party are at odds and don't know what to do next.
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Again - the issue is the lies, deception, and double dealing.
Its on every single issue with this horrible admn.
Yet Team KP worries about Boehners' crying.
Go figure.
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Again - the issue is the lies, deception, and double dealing.
Its on every single issue with this horrible admn.
Yet Team KP worries about Boehners' crying.
Go figure.
Lies, deception and double dealing. Say it ain't so. Didn't Obama promise change? I thought politics as we knew it was supposed to be a thing of the past under Obama. He was going to keep all his promises. He was going to be more open. Remember when he said the health reform negotiations would be televised on C-Span?
What can be expected of a man who lied about a family member being present at the liberation of Aushwitz?
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I just called my congressperson and told her to vote against this package.
I'm sick of this crap. This admn is disgusting, vile, dishonest, duplicitous, and simply not worthy of the office or money taxpayers are wasting on them.
FUBO!
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HEHEHE!! I thought Republicans was supposed to be the divided party and Democrats the strong, united, one for all, all for one party. So much for that.
I guess it's easier to open threads about Boehner's crying than to face the reality that Obama and his party are at odds and don't know what to do next.
Thats something to clap over.. a divided country,, yayyyyy.. ::)
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Again - the issue is the lies, deception, and double dealing.
Its on every single issue with this horrible admn.
Yet Team KP worries about Boehners' crying.
Go figure.
I know it's your term, but the correct initials are TK.
;D
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Thats something to clap over.. a divided country,, yayyyyy.. ::)
Obama has divided even the Democrat party at this point.
Did you read the article? He ad biden lied to top members of his own party on this.
No wonder Moran and others in the Dem party are sayng "FUCK OBAMA" along with at least 50% of the country
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Obama has divided even the Democrat party at this point.
Did you read the article? He ad biden lied to top members of his own party on this.
No wonder Moran and others in the Dem party are sayng "FUCK OBAMA" along with at least 50% of the country
Right.. because thats his aim right.. seek and distroy?...fuckin idiot
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Obama is a marxist planted by China and USSR to destroy the USA. Just ask Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Palin or 3333.
Oh and its not them who are wrong its just us stupid ordinary mortals living in our matrix who refuse to see the truth.
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Thats something to clap over.. a divided country,, yayyyyy.. ::)
Whose clapping over a divided country? I am making fun of 240's assertion, and maybe you believed him, when he said that Republicans were divided. Interesting how with each passing day it is the Democrats that are at each other's necks or at least at the president's neck.
Dems need to meet the Reps half way and do what the people want them to do. The Dems agenda was rejected by the people on Nov. 2. Once they do the will of the people and work with the Reps, then we won't have such a divided country.
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Right.. because thats his aim right.. seek and distroy?...fuckin idiot
Whether its his aim or not - its the result of his horrible policies, super-secretive dealings, duplicitous ways, lies, sell-outs, and flip flops on every single issue. He simply is not an honest person. He lies without blinking an eye and everyone is sick of it.
Again - even House Dems are cursing out Obama over how he acts. Can't blame that on Sarah, Rush, or Beck.
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So if you really believe he is trying to destroy the country then it would be a patriots duty to stop him no?
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Whether its his aim or not - its the result of his horrible policies, super-secretive dealings, duplicitous ways, lies, sell-outs, and flip flops on every single issue. He simply is not an honest person. He lies without blinking an eye and everyone is sick of it.
Again - even House Dems are cursing out Obama over how he acts. Can't blame that on Sarah, Rush, or Beck.
because he compromised with Repubs.. thats why they are mad..
so either you would come on saying "obama is hell bent on blah blah.. run hide your kids or and your dog...blah blah.. dumb ass video or long ass right winged article"....
or you say... Democrats are mad at obama...blah blah hide your kids blah blah.. dumb ass palin photo shoped picture.. aahhhhh palin holding a gun is so cool blah blah ...video... and the sky is falling if you didnt know already"
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So if you really believe he is trying to destroy the country then it would be a patriots duty to stop him no?
Yes, i believe he hates this country and he has said so much in many different ways and has shown this through his associations, his statements, his policies, etc etc.
As far as stopping him, I believe in the electoral process and Nov. 2 was a decent start.
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So if you really believe he is trying to destroy the country then it would be a patriots duty to stop him no?
Tom Brady to the rescue
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because he compromised with Repubs.. thats why they are mad..
What happened to "reaching across the aisle"? I have heard both parties accuse each other of not "reaching across the aisle". For that to happen, someone has to be willing to compromise.
Do Dems expect to never concede anything to the Reps?
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What happened to "reaching across the aisle"? I have heard both parties accuse each other of not "reaching across the aisle". For that to happen, someone has to be willing to compromise.
Do Dems expect to never concede anything to the Reps?
So who is 3333 directing his anger to. Dems are mad that he DID reach accross the isle (no homo.. sounds too close to "reach around"
So...3333 who is wrong.. Obama for reaching accross the isle to deal with repubs or the other Dems for not agreeing with the reach (no homo)
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So who is 3333 directing his anger to. Dems are mad that he DID reach accross the isle (no homo.. sounds too close to "reach around"
So...3333 who is wrong.. Obama for reaching accross the isle to deal with repubs or the other Dems for not agreeing with the reach (no homo)
Did you read the article?
and i am no longer in support of this "deal" anymore. It started out ok, but has morphed into another bogus pos.
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Did you read the article?
and i am no longer in support of this "deal" anymore. It started out ok, but has morphed into another bogus pos.
No ones reading your bullshit.. but if you want you can give me your bizzaro world version of it.
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No ones reading your bullshit.. but if you want you can give me your bizzaro world version of it.
See bro - this is why I laugh at you. You dont even read stuff and come into a thread to attack me. Why bother?
The story is how Obama lied to the Dems in meeting at the WH and how and why they reacted the way they did.
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See bro - this is why I laugh at you. You dont even read stuff and come into a thread to attack me. Why bother?
The story is how Obama lied to the Dems in meeting at the WH and how and why they reacted the way they did.
I dont read your shit because i dont read opinion.. i read facts and news.. but when i google your writer its "conservative blogger from such and such"
So if you can tell me what you think happened i would appreciate it. Because me thinks you dont caught your foot in your mouth.. you got anger at dems for compromising when Obama did what Repubs asked for.
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I dont read your shit because i dont read opinion.. i read facts and news.. but when i google your writer its "conservative blogger from such and such"
So if you can tell me what you think happened i would appreciate it. Because me thinks you dont caught your foot in your mouth.. you got anger at dems for compromising when Obama did what Repubs asked for.
Bro - there are direct quotes from Dem house members on this saying Obama lied to them.
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Bro - there are direct quotes from Dem house members on this saying Obama lied to them.
Ok.. he lied to them why?... so he can work with repubs right.. so who are YOU mad at?
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Again - the issue is the lies, deception, and double dealing.
Its on every single issue with this horrible admn.
Yet Team KP worries about Boehners' crying.
Go figure.
I hope you know the republicans are just as bad. They will get in power and do all the same shit but amazingly convince a large portion of voters that they are not actually doing what they are really doing and they'll keep spouting off distractive issues with no real value. I swear to god the fucking dems and republicans must party after the CSPAN cameras are off, laughing their asses off at the scam they are pulling on the people.
I guess our founding fathers never anticipated massive finacial interests systematically buying off everyone in government... The constitution is kinda broken when everyone elected in government feels that their constituents are solely comprised of banks and corporations as they do now. We the people, a mere formality for them on their way to work for and only listen to bankers and corporations... Something tells me this isn't exactly what our founding fathers had in mind. I do realize that the founding fathers didn't have absolute trust in the people and also designed things with that in mind, but fuck, talk about getting the other side of the spectrum down the road...
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I hope you know the republicans are just as bad. They will get in power and do all the same shit but amazingly convince a large portion of voters that they are not actually doing what they are really doing and they'll keep spouting off distractive issues with no real value. I swear to god the fucking dems and republicans must party after the CSPAN cameras are off, laughing their asses off at the scam they are pulling on the people.
I guess our founding fathers never anticipated massive finacial interests systematically buying off everyone in government... The constitution is kinda broken when everyone elected in government feels that their constituents are solely comprised of banks and corporations as they do now. We the people, a mere formality for them on their way to work for and only listen to bankers and corporations... Something tells me this isn't exactly what our founding fathers had in mind. I do realize that the founding fathers didn't have the greatest trust in the people and also designed things with that in mind, but fuck, talk about getting the other side of the spectrum down the road...
Nope he thinks Repubs will come in and make it all better.. im suprised the economy isnt all the way fixed in.. Repubs have been for a month
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Nope he thinks Repubs will come in and make it all better.. im suprised the economy isnt all the way fixed in.. Repubs have been for a month
I like 3333 on several levels but I fear he does actually think republicans will come in and change things for the better. Infact all the republicans have done is set it up for the dems to scam us and all the dems have done is to set up the republicans to scam us... I've been watching this shit for 30 years and I had the last fucking straw with Obama... I see the fucking game now loud and goddamned fucking clear as day... It's just sad that it might take others that long to see. It's easy to get scammed and lied to... Politics 101... I knew it was fucking wrong years ago but I still played along because I got caught up in lies and deception.
It's time for a real revolt in this country. Not a violent revolt, but a real revolt. A revolt to restore America. Americans passing laws on the local level. A revolt from the local level on the central government. Again, it doesn't need to be violent, but the people really do still have the power. If we wanted, we could bury the fed, bankers, and corporations at the local level with a shit storm of ballot initiatives... The power is there for us, but we don't seem to have the brains to use it.
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Nope he thinks Repubs will come in and make it all better.. im suprised the economy isnt all the way fixed in.. Repubs have been for a month
No - I don't expect them to do anything good. I am happy if they merely don't do shit, cock block Barry from whatever he wants to do, and leave us the hell alone.
I want complete gridlock all around.
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No - I don't expect them to do anything good. I am happy if they merely don't do shit, cock block Barry from whatever he wants to do, and leave us the hell alone.
I want complete gridlock all around.
And thats what repubs do? Same sex marriage, Patriot act, DADT...seem really active to me
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No - I don't expect them to do anything good. I am happy if they merely don't do shit, cock block Barry from whatever he wants to do, and leave us the hell alone.
I want complete gridlock all around.
do you expect the republicans do do anything good? Really? LOL... In their process of doing good, they intentionally and knowingly piss off so many they set it up for the dems to come in and layeth down the shitstorm and when we start to get wise to that business, they reverse that and play it the same the other way... All along the corpations and bankers have systimatically gotten everything they want while THE AMERICAN PEOPLE have gotten screwed more year after year....
3333, don't spend the years waking up to this fact like I did...
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And thats what repubs do? Same sex marriage, Patriot act, DADT...seem really active to me
1. Where have the GOP instituted bans on gay mrriage? last i checked, the voters have always struck that down.
2. DADT? If the military wants to keep it fine - if not fine. I'll go with what they want to do on that.
3. Patriot Act - I'm not i favor of that but many dems went along with that too.
4. Compared to obamacare, cap & trade, the wall street bailouts, FINREG, etc, ill take gridlock any day.
I have no expectations from the GOP but to cause and foster gridlock. That is what i want, no more 2000 page bills in te dead of night, no more back door deals like bamacare and cap n trade, etc etc.
Just leave me the hell alone. and like you libs always say: Keep your laws off of my body"
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And thats what repubs do? Same sex marriage, Patriot act, DADT...seem really active to me
DADT was done WHEN THE DEMOCRATS were running Washington (signed into law by Bill Clinton).
Gay "marriage": Opposition to that may be the one bi-partisan issue there is. Why do you think gay "marriage" advocates LOSE, every time this goes to the voters, even in "blue" states (see California, Oregon, Florida, Michigan)?
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do you expect the republicans do do anything good? Really? LOL... In their process of doing good, they intentionally and knowingly piss off so many they set it up for the dems to come in and layeth down the shitstorm and when we start to get wise to that business, they reverse that and play it the same the other way... All along the corpations and bankers have systimatically gotten everything they want while THE AMERICAN PEOPLE have gotten screwed more year after year....
3333, don't spend the years waking up to this fact like I did...
At this point, I just want them to not do shit. If they leave us alone, we can dig ourselves out, but if they keep "helping us" we will never get out from under their heavy boot.
I view this as a mafia war. Hopefully the families fight amongst each other rather than unite, because when the mafia families unite - weall get fucked.
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DADT was done WHEN THE DEMOCRATS were running Washington (signed into law by Bill Clinton).
Gay "marriage": Opposition to that may be the one bi-partisan issue there is. Why do you think gay "marriage" advocates LOSE, every time this goes to the voters, even in "blue" states (see California, Oregon, Florida, Michigan)?
LMAO..but the fight to block Same sex marriage and to repeal DADT is being waged by the House ..and Senate
Splitting hairs over there
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I dont read your shit because i dont read opinion.. i read facts and news.. but when i google your writer its "conservative blogger from such and such"
So if you can tell me what you think happened i would appreciate it. Because me thinks you dont caught your foot in your mouth.. you got anger at dems for compromising when Obama did what Repubs asked for.
"Hardly anybody in the Democratic caucus here feels that the president tried hard enough to deliver on his campaign promises," said Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida, one of dozens of House Democrats defeated in last month's elections. Obama had House Democratic leaders "go through what turned out to be Potemkin meetings with his staff, when the real negotiations were being done elsewhere," he said.
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LMAO..but the fight to block Same sex marriage and to repeal DADT is being waged by the House ..and Senate
Splitting hairs over there
1. Clinton signed DOMA.
2. Every time gay marriage is put for a vote it fails overwhelmingly, even amongst minorities. In fact, in California, all the blacks who came out for Bama killed gay marriage and offset the whte latte lib votes from San Fran.
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"Hardly anybody in the Democratic caucus here feels that the president tried hard enough to deliver on his campaign promises," said Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida, one of dozens of House Democrats defeated in last month's elections. Obama had House Democratic leaders "go through what turned out to be Potemkin meetings with his staff, when the real negotiations were being done elsewhere," he said.
But if he delivered his campaign promises you would call him communist. Now since he reached across the isle and extended the cuts.. you call him a liar..
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But if he delivered his campaign promises you would call him communist. Now since he reached across the isle and extended the cuts.. you call him a liar..
No, this article is about how he went about this and lied his ass off to fellow dems to save his own ass an leave them out in the cold.
Again - they had TWO YEARS to deal with this. Why did he and the dems wait till the 11th hour?
Personally, this deal isa pile of shit. It started outok, but has morphed into another big govt boondagle.
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And thats what repubs do? Same sex marriage, Patriot act, DADT...seem really active to me
Are you denying that the people have struck down same sex marriage every single time? The only ones legalizing same sex marriage are judges going against the will of the people. This is not a Dem or Rep issue.
Patriot Act...You might want to look up how many Dems supported this legislation. You will be surprised.
DADT...All military chiefs, except the puppets in the Pentagon, do not want DADT to be repealed while we are at war.
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At this point, I just want them to not do shit. If they leave us alone, we can dig ourselves out, but if they keep "helping us" we will never get out from under their heavy boot.
I view this as a mafia war. Hopefully the families fight amongst each other rather than unite, because when the mafia families unite - weall get fucked.
I understand what and why you're saying and feeling that way but your path to doing that is setting up another round of hurt on the people.
I feel we need a more aggressive approach from the people at this point. Like I said, it doesn't need to be violent, we could actually ignore the federal level and bury them in initiatives if we wanted to. There are several ways the people can act on a government that is out of control before it gets violent. Why don't we do this? Because most spend time caught up on opposing what they don't like by supporting what they also should not like just because it is sound to them at the moment. They play you knowing that... They know that is what you're going to do... What they don't expect is a real, a for real grass movement that says fuck all you cocksuckers... That is the movement that should be started today!!!
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Well - even as flawed as it was, the Tea Party people tried but were mocked and trashed in the media, from the "progressives" etc etc.
Plus - most people just don't give a shit so long as football is on and tey can watch biggest loser or DWTS
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But if he delivered his campaign promises you would call him communist. Now since he reached across the isle and extended the cuts.. you call him a liar..
Go tell that to the people at HP. Even they admit what a liar bama is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/14/tax-cut-deal-handling-ang_n_796341.html
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Well - even as flawed as it was, the Tea Party people tried but were mocked and trashed in the media, from the "progressives" etc etc.
Plus - most people just don't give a shit so long as football is on and tey can watch biggest loser or DWTS
I was for the movement that started before "tea party" was even mentioned. The movement that Ron Paul got started. But we're talking about a movement that mostly started with one man which is easily corrupted, we need to talk about a movement started by many.
We witnessed the "tea party" movement be corrupted and co-opted in a very short period of time. I was the only one here warning against that and talking about it and nobody knew what I was talking about... that was back right after the election... When the real movement started under Ron Paul, it was very anti-neocon as well as anti big government. Now it's been corrupted into a movement that is anti-big government only in show and strongly neocon in many aspects, in other words, not far from what neocon controlled republicans were under Bush... The start of the movement would have never supported a person like Sarah Palin or the like but now they're a shinning banner of the movement. And you wonder why Ron Paul, who really started it all, now says, fuck that, I'm not touching it... DUH.....
That is why it's time for a real movement... Not one that involves voting for which poison is going to kill you... One which is designed to bury this corrupt government and restore America. That I know how to do... That we should all know how to do... That it seems we don't have the will to do... We would rather keep playing the stupid games they want us to play.
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I was for the movement that started before "tea party" was even mentioned. The movement that Ron Paul got started. But we're talking about a movement that mostly started with one man which is easily corrupted, we need to talk about a movement started by many.
We witnessed the "tea party" movement be corrupted and co-opted in a very short period of time. I was the only one here warning against that and talking about it and nobody knew what I was talking about... that was back right after the election... When the real movement started under Ron Paul, it was very anti-neocon as well as anti big government. Now it's been corrupted into a movement that is anti-big government only in show and strongly neocon in many aspects, in other words, not far from what neocon controlled republicans were under Bush... The start of the movement would have never supported a person like Sarah Palin or the like but now they're a shinning banner of the movement. And you wonder why Ron Paul, who really started it all, now says, fuck that, I'm not touching it... DUH.....
That is why it's time for a real movement... Not one that involves voting for which poison is going to kill you... One which is designed to bury this corrupt government and restore America. That I know how to do... That we should all know how to do... That it seems we don't have the will to do... We would rather keep playing the stupid games they want us to play.
Hate to say itHugo - but things need to getdrastically worse before more people wake up.
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Hate to say itHugo - but things need to getdrastically worse before more people wake up.
Are you awake to it? I don't see it in your posts whatsoever... I'm on your side on many levels but I don't think you're getting the picture I and many others are painting, including Ron Paul--no offense intended.
I think this is an important topic so lets keep talking about this.
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Are you awake to it? I don't see it in your posts whatsoever... I'm on your side on many levels but I don't think you're getting the picture I and many others are painting, including Ron Paul--no offense intended.
I think this is an important topic so lets keep talking about this.
I am in the acceptance stage and think we are not going to improve anything at al unless we have a total collapse. in the meantime, we just have to do the best we can to survive and get through the best way possible.
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I am in the acceptance stage and think we are not going to improve anything at al unless we have a total collapse. in the meantime, we just have to do the best we can to survive and get through the best way possible.
collapse is not relevant... Collapse is going to happen slow or fast but it's going to happen and is happening. Collapse is not the issue. If you're waiting for a collapse to awaken the people, you'll be dead before you get your wish.
Why would you wait on a maybe when you can act on it now? Instead of being fuel for the fire, you can choose to act now?!?!?!
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collapse is not relevant... Collapse is going to happen slow or fast but it's going to happen and is happening. Collapse is not the issue. If you're waiting for a collapse to awaken the people, you'll be dead before you get your wish.
Why would you wait on a maybe when you can act on it now? Instead of being fuel for the fire, you can choose to act now?!?!?!
Hugo - I talk to people and some get it, but most don't. They prefer to remain ignorant. i tell people about Creature from Jeklyll Island, End the Fed, etc etc, but most prefer Danielle Steele or James Patterson.
Instead of reading, learning, many just want fluff. I have a few buddies wh I turned on to Schiff an otherswho really educate themselves but most just want to remain stupid to what is going on.
So for me, its about personal survival and interest of myself and those around me. If people wat to learn more, I give some ideas and books and sources, but if not, I don't even bother any more.
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Hugo - I talk to people and some get it, but most don't. They prefer to remain ignorant. i tell people about Creature from Jeklyll Island, End the Fed, etc etc, but most prefer Danielle Steele or James Patterson.
Instead of reading, learning, many just want fluff. I have a few buddies wh I turned on to Schiff an otherswho really educate themselves but most just want to remain stupid to what is going on.
So for me, its about personal survival and interest of myself and those around me. If people wat to learn more, I give some ideas and books and sources, but if not, I don't even bother any more.
so the real question is why do you continue to post in a fashion like you have never read Griffin? In a fashion like you detest Ron Paul and in a fashion where it seems like you're in the most eager state to keep the status quo? Are you that oblivious or do I not understand your true objective? As I see it now, you're just playing the game like they want you to play it as they have wanted us to play it for a long time... What I fucking propose is something much greater... Something we can actually do, something that can actually have them...fucked...
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The game is going to be there regardless of whether I like it or not, so I am forced to deal with it, as is everyone.
I just have lost any real sense that anything will ever change on a mass level.
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No, this article is about how he went about this and lied his ass off to fellow dems to save his own ass an leave them out in the cold.
Again - they had TWO YEARS to deal with this. Why did he and the dems wait till the 11th hour?
Personally, this deal isa pile of shit. It started outok, but has morphed into another big govt boondagle.
They waited, because they wanted to use the old GOP-just-wants-tax-cuts-for-the-rich routine during midterms. That plan BACKFIRED, as the Republicans ran on extending the Bush tax cuts for all and WON.
Now, the Dems are between that rock and a hard place. Either they extend the Bush tax cuts (and try to squeeze as much swine as possible) or have the GOP-run Congress do it (perhaps for much longer than two years). If the latter happens, the American people will suffer with higher taxes to the point where they'll cry for Obama's head, unless he signs the GOP's bill.
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Listen up you libs - this man is ademocrat house member an tells exactly what happened!
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