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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on December 18, 2010, 11:30:13 AM
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December 18, 2010
Senate Blocks Bill for Young Illegal Immigrants
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
www.nyt.com
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The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would have created a path to citizenship for certain young illegal immigrants who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements, including passing a criminal background check.
The vote by 55-41 in favor of the bill, which is known as the Dream Act, effectively kills it for this year, and its fate is uncertain. The measure needed the support of 60 senators to cut off a filibuster and bring it to the floor.
Supporters said they were heartened that the measure won the backing of a majority of the Senate. They said they would continue to press for it, either on its own or as part of a wide immigration overhaul that some Democrats hope to undertake next year and believe could be an area of cooperation with Republicans, who will control a majority in the House
Most immediately, the measure would have helped grant legal status to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrant students and recent graduates whose lives are severely restricted though many have lived in the United States for nearly their entire lives.
Young Hispanic men and women filled the spectator galleries of the Senate, many of them wearing graduation caps and tassels in a symbol of their support for the bill. They held hands in a prayerful gesture as the clerk called the roll and many looked stricken as its defeat was announced.
President Obama had personally lobbied lawmakers in support the bill. But Democrats were not able to hold ranks.
Five Democrats joined Republicans in opposing the bill. They were Democratic Senators Max Baucus of Montana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Jon Tester of Montana.
And three Republicans joined the balance of Democrats in favor of it: Robert Bennett of Utah, Richard Lugar of Indiana, and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.
Mr. Obama, in a statement, called the outcome “incredibly disappointing” and said that he would continue fighting to win approval of the bill.
“It is not only the right thing to do for talented young people who seek to serve a country they know as their own, it is the right thing for the United States of America,” Mr. Obama said. “Our nation is enriched by their talents and would benefit from the success of their efforts.”
“The Dream Act is important to our economic competitiveness, military readiness, and law enforcement efforts,” he said, adding, “It is disappointing that common sense did not prevail today but my administration will note give up.”
In a floor speech, Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, a main champion of the Dream act, urged a yes vote. “I want to make it clear to my colleagues, you won’t get many chances in the United States Senate, in the course of your career, to face clear votes on the issue of justice,” he said.
“Thousands of children in American who live in the shadows and dream of greatness,” he said. “They are children who have been raised in this country. They stand in the classrooms and pledge allegiance to our flag. They sing our ‘Star-Spangled Banner’ as our national anthem. They believe in their heart of hearts this is home. This is the only country they have ever known.”
At a news conference after the vote, Senator Michael Bennet, Democrat of Colorado and a former superintendent of the Denver school system, said he was thinking about all the students he knew there, as he cast his vote in favor of the bill.
“Please don’t have up,” Mr. Bennet said. “Don’t be disappointed because we couldn’t get our act together.”
But opponents of the measure said it was too broad and would grant amnesty to illegal immigrants.
“As part of this legislative session there has been no serious movement to do anything that would improve the grievous situation of illegality at our border,” said Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama. “Leaders in Washington have not only tolerate lawlessness but, in fact, our policies have encouraged it.”
Mr. Sessions added, “This bill is a law that at its fundamental core is a reward for illegal activity.”
Ms. Murkowski, in a statement, chastised Democrats for bringing the bill to the floor when it was “doomed to fail” but said that she broke with most Republicans because the legislation was important.
“I support the goal of the Dream Act which is to enable children who were brought to the United States by their parents to earn citizenship through service in the armed forces or pursuit of higher education,” Ms. Murkowski said. “ I do not believe that children are to blame for the decision of their parents to enter or remain in the United States unlawfully. The reality is that many of these children regard America as the only country they ever knew. Some were not even told that they were unlawfully in the United States until it came time for them to apply for college. America should provide these young people with the opportunity to pursue the American dream. They have much to offer America if given the chance.”
Ms. Murkowski also expressed an openness to dealing with the wider immigration issue. “ I firmly believe that Congress needs to embrace the wider immigration question, starting with securing our borders, and I plan to work with my colleagues on this issue in the new Congress,” she said.
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close the border and then we will talk about the dreams f ilegals.
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Young Hispanic men and women filled the spectator galleries of the Senate, many of them wearing graduation caps and tassels in a symbol of their support for the bill. They held hands in a prayerful gesture as the clerk called the roll and many looked stricken as its defeat was announced.
Wtf? ???
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Lol.
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Obama in a landslide in 2012. ;)
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Yeah, a landlslide into the toilet.
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I don't really have a problem with this.
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Its amnesty via the back door.
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Its amnesty via the back door.
How is that?
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Its amnesty via the back door.
which prominent repubs and dems have come out and said this bill was shite?
Which notables supported it?
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Just stop.
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“Thousands of children in American who live in the shadows and dream of greatness,” he said. “They are children who have been raised in this country. They stand in the classrooms and pledge allegiance to our flag. They sing our ‘Star-Spangled Banner’ as our national anthem. They believe in their heart of hearts this is home. This is the only country they have ever known.”
“I support the goal of the Dream Act which is to enable children who were brought to the United States by their parents to earn citizenship through service in the armed forces or pursuit of higher education,” Ms. Murkowski said. “ I do not believe that children are to blame for the decision of their parents to enter or remain in the United States unlawfully. The reality is that many of these children regard America as the only country they ever knew. Some were not even told that they were unlawfully in the United States until it came time for them to apply for college. America should provide these young people with the opportunity to pursue the American dream. They have much to offer America if given the chance.”
close the border and then we will talk about the dreams f ilegals.
What flipping lala land is this in. Most schools don't allow the pledge of allegiance (which is horseshit if ya ask me). Yea let's teach the illegals, sure it's not your fault your parents soaked up the system and brought you here illegally, but do a few good deeds and we shall look the other way. ::)
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Its utter nonsense all around.
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What flipping lala land is this in. Most schools don't allow the pledge of allegiance (which is horseshit if ya ask me). Yea let's teach the illegals, sure it's not your fault your parents soaked up the system and brought you here illegally, but do a few good deeds and we shall look the other way. ::)
I'm 100% against this dream bullshite... it's part 1 of amnesty... "let the GOOD illegals stay". Then we simply change the definition of *good* and you let them all stay by using the Palin Amnesty Plan of "If they're good enough to fill out a form, they can stay!"
FYI, in FL, they still have done the pledge of allegience in every classroom i've been in. If the parents have an issue with it, they send a note, and the kid gets to sit thru it. I taught at poorer schools where they cling to guns and bibles (right, 2008?) so they all love the pledge.
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I'm 100% against this dream bullshite... it's part 1 of amnesty... "let the GOOD illegals stay". Then we simply change the definition of *good* and you let them all stay by using the Palin Amnesty Plan of "If they're good enough to fill out a form, they can stay!"
FYI, in FL, they still have done the pledge of allegience in every classroom i've been in. If the parents have an issue with it, they send a note, and the kid gets to sit thru it. I taught at poorer schools where they cling to guns and bibles (right, 2008?) so they all love the pledge.
well good for schools in Florida, I think it should still be allowed, sadly it really isn't
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Why did you bring up palin.
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How is that?
Bump
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Because once they get citizenship, they can sponsor their illegal alien parents. Its called back door amnesty.
Its more horseshit from the lunatic left.
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Sponser them to immigrate legally?
Don't we only let a cetian amount in each year?
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Yes. But never illegals sponosoring other illegals. I sponsored someone for citizenship from venzuela and know all about the process.
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The Republicans killed The Dream.
Despite all the seats Republicans picked up, there are still three gaping holes in their image. First, their image remains as negative as it was after the election in 2008 — 41 percent of registered voters have negative feelings toward the Republicans. Second, half of those who identify with the Republicans care more about the Tea Party than the GOP, and they're going to hold the leadership's feet to the fire; John Boehner is about to get some electroshock treatment. Third, as the victories of Jerry Brown in California and Harry Reid in Nevada underscore, the fastest-growing segment of the electorate is the Hispanic vote. Democrats had a 22-point advantage among Hispanics in 2004; today that has grown to a 38-point advantage. Anti-immigration rhetoric may have driven Republican voters to the polls this year, but they will pay a price for it in 2012. ~ Peter D. Hart
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Please. Why should we entertain the dreams of criminals, invaders, madoffs, and parasites?
We have a legal process, perhaps these crimigrants should follow it.
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Another thing, we are we even talking about the dreams of illegal invaders and crimmigrants, when we should be discussing border security and a more effecient way to deport as many of these leeches as possible?
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If I was a Republican senator, I would have called ICE and had all of them arrested.
New mom= my new favorite poster on this board
And the Republicans won't pay any price at all if the 30 million illegals remain illegal. In the states where there are large hispanic populations the Republicans either have nothing to fear ( Texas, Arizona, New Mexico) or had no shot of winning the state anyway (California, NY). Florida is a wash because of Rubio.
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I think you need to accept the fact that no one in Washington is concerned about illegal immigrants including every republican.
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The Dems care big time. They look at it as a bonanza of potential votes if their hideously destructive legislation passes.
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If that was the case, this would have passed.
Instead again, the TEA Party people mobilized and killed this treasonous shit. I know because I am on many mailing lists and a huge effort was made to kill this scam on the taxpayer.
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If that was the case, this would have passed.
Instead again, the TEA Party people mobilized and killed this treasonous shit. I know because I am on many mailing lists and a huge effort was made to kill this scam on the taxpayer.
If.......that was the case? It is the case otherwise the dam repubs would have done something about it years ago. Just because they are aginst this latest thing doesn't mean they are against the illegal immigration problem
You don't see too many of these guys republicans talking about what we really need to to do which is seal off the borders and kick all these illegals out.
Is there any repubs insisting on sponsorship limits? Are they trying to tack it on the bill?
Face facts. No of these fuck brains what illegals out.
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That was my biggest gripe againt gwb and mccain.
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DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate
examiner.com ^ | December 18th, 2010 2:34 pm MT | Miguel Perez
“This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”
Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot. We need to do everything Blacks did to get their civil rights!”
The DREAM Act would have provided amnesty for many children of undocumented immigrants who had no choice in their arrival to the United States. It would have also provided amnesty to all of their family members who come from lands that were stolen by the United States. But Elena Cruz of the Center for Latino Rights says Latinos need to take a non-violent approach.
"Rioting and any type of violence won't help our cause," Ms. Cruz tells this column. "We need to do our best to show this country how Latinos fit into the American Dream. We lost today, but we will prove ourselves very soon."
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Well that's dumb.....what's even dumber is why hasn't anyone stipulated the sponsorship issue?
I still dont have a prob with the dream act, but I do have a prob with the ability to sponsor with out limits.
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DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate
examiner.com ^ | December 18th, 2010 2:34 pm MT | Miguel Perez
“This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”
Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot. We need to do everything Blacks did to get their civil rights!”
The DREAM Act would have provided amnesty for many children of undocumented immigrants who had no choice in their arrival to the United States. It would have also provided amnesty to all of their family members who come from lands that were stolen by the United States. But Elena Cruz of the Center for Latino Rights says Latinos need to take a non-violent approach.
"Rioting and any type of violence won't help our cause," Ms. Cruz tells this column. "We need to do our best to show this country how Latinos fit into the American Dream. We lost today, but we will prove ourselves very soon."
I would volunteer to turn the firehoses on these cucarachas.
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Do these chupacabras realize that it was the 5 democrats who voted against it that stopped them from what we apparently owe them? The EU puts armed soldiers on its borders to keep the Turkish riff-raff out. Why can't we do the same? ::)
There isn't a single democrat that can say with a straight face that they actually care about these people. This is for votes, has always been for votes, and will always be for votes. Fuck them and anyone who supports this shit.
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Why don't these people just go home.
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They are home.
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"“This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”
Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot. We need to do everything Blacks did to get their civil rights!”
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA
A fvcking ILLEGAL... on our soil... screaming "this is war".
I'd say we treat her like any other foreign enemy screaming about war in our country...
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"“This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”
Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot. We need to do everything Blacks did to get their civil rights!”
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA
A fvcking ILLEGAL... on our soil... screaming "this is war".
I'd say we treat her like any other foreign enemy screaming about war in our country...
Exactly. Guantanamo sounds like a great place for these cucarachas to earn their citizenship.
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They are home.
USA is it's own sovereign nation. Illegal immigrants and their offspring are not welcomed here, nor should they be. They are not home and I make it a point to let them know when they bitch to me how they can't find work, or how they are overworked when they do have a job or when their cars get impounded for having no fake licenses and fake insurance cards.
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USA is it's own sovereign nation. Illegal immigrants and their offspring are not welcomed here, nor should they be. They are not home and I make it a point to let them know when they bitch to me how they can't find work, or how they are overworked when they do have a job or when their cars get impounded for having no fake licenses and fake insurance cards.
No one in washington is willing to to do what's needed to solve this problem on both sides of the isle. So when a child is brought over to this country illegally and grows up here this IS their home.
The real solution here is a closed border, but our country would rather fight 2 pointless wars overseas.
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To be fair, the right has fought this nonsense for years, only for liberal judges and policy makers to refuse or demonize them to the point that it became politically perilous to push for the expulsion of illegals and their children.
Ultimately Plyler v. Doe which was ruled by the Supreme Court in 1982 destroyed any possibility of doing what was necessary to keep these people out or to get rid of the people who are here.
Oz, if you have the time, check out the case or read the summary on Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe
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you had me at dingbat ;D
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Haha ;D
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Yes. But never illegals sponosoring other illegals. I sponsored someone for citizenship from venzuela and know all about the process.
Who did you sponsor?
Can you provide anything showing there is no limit. I looked at a few things and none of it said there was no limits. They said once the petition is received then they take their place in the immigration line.
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Who did you sponsor?
Can you provide anything showing there is no limit. I looked at a few things and none of it said there was no limits. They said once the petition is received then they take their place in the immigration line.
My buddy got married to a woman from VZ and we put in the application based on marriage. She had a kid, but my friend and myself showed she was educated, employable, and would not be a public charge at all.
Immigration law is admittedly complex, but the DREAM ACT has always been back door amnesty allowing illegals to bring in other illegals.
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To be fair, the right has fought this nonsense for years, only for liberal judges and policy makers to refuse or demonize them to the point that it became politically perilous to push for the expulsion of illegals and their children.
Ultimately Plyler v. Doe which was ruled by the Supreme Court in 1982 destroyed any possibility of doing what was necessary to keep these people out or to get rid of the people who are here.
Oz, if you have the time, check out the case or read the summary on Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe
I checked it out. I get how its politically dangerous for anyone to call for the expulsion of illegals with children. They did not have the balls to do it then. But why doesn't anyone have the balls to what's necessary now which is seal the border? If you seal the border that greatly lessens the flow. But yet, every politician on both sides of the fence stays away from this.
So here we are just botching about stuff that really isnt going to change crap either way.
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My buddy got married to a woman from VZ and we put in the application based on marriage. She had a kid, but my friend and myself showed she was educated, employable, and would not be a public charge at all.
Immigration law is admittedly complex, but the DREAM ACT has always been back door amnesty allowing illegals to bring in other illegals.
But they'd still have to wait line.
Amnesty or no amnesty. It doesn't Matter if you are not Willing to seal the borders and strictly enforce existing laws.
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But they'd still have to wait line.
Amnesty or no amnesty. It doesn't Matter if you are not Willing to seal the borders and strictly enforce existing laws.
TRUE - THAT IS WHAT EVERYONE KEEPS SCREAMING ABOUT. CLOSE THE BORDER FIRST THEN WE CAN DISCUSS AMNESTY FOR LEGALIZATION OF SOME SORT.
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TRUE - THAT IS WHAT EVERYONE KEEPS SCREAMING ABOUT. CLOSE THE BORDER FIRST THEN WE CAN DISCUSS AMNESTY FOR LEGALIZATION OF SOME SORT.
Everyone except our elected politicians.
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We need to follow this up with another bill stating that if you are born in the US and your parents are not citizens, you are not a citizen either.
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We need to follow this up with another bill stating that if you are born in the US and your parents are not citizens, you are not a citizen either.
I agree and have said that before. Being born here shouldn't be an automatic citizenship, if your parents are here illegally. So let me ask you folks this. If the parents are here on a work visa or legally allowed to be in the states, should they be automatic citizens if born here. Now before anyone answers think about it.
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If I was a Republican senator, I would have called ICE and had all of them arrested.
And ICE would have arrested them all, deported any American citizens among the group if any are found, then released all the illegals if they have committed no major crime.
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No one in washington is willing to to do what's needed to solve this problem on both sides of the isle. So when a child is brought over to this country illegally and grows up here this IS their home.
The real solution here is a closed border, but our country would rather fight 2 pointless wars overseas.
NO, it is not their home. Tough lesson to learn. But, if the parents came here illegaly, send the entire family to where they came from. This idea that the USA is their home because they were born here, eventhough your parents ILLEGALY came here is outdated and makes no sense.
Have them get back on line and wait for their citizenship.
I don't have a problem with immigration. I have a problem with illegal immigration. Close the border. Get out of Afghanistan, Iraq and put the military on the border. Kick ALL the illegals out. Hard thing to do, but not impossible.
But you are right, all these idiot politicians, Dems and Reps, are not willing to do it.
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Well, at least the illusion of immigration enforcement would be on display.
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NO, it is not their home. Tough lesson to learn. But, if the parents came here illegaly, send the entire family to where they came from. This idea that the USA is their home because they were born here, eventhough your parents ILLEGALY came here is outdated and makes no sense.
Have them get back on line and wait for their citizenship.
I don't have a problem with immigration. I have a problem with illegal immigration. Close the border. Get out of Afghanistan, Iraq and put the military on the border. Kick ALL the illegals out. Hard thing to do, but not impossible.
But you are right, all these idiot politicians, Dems and Reps, are not willing to do it.
I agree with you on the "ends" but not the "means".
Birth right is written in our constitution. Unless we want to change that (amendment?) then it is what it is.
Kicking every illegal alien out of this country is not practical at this point. The cost, the trouble, the ethical questions (with the children), sudden absence of cheap labor, etc..
Sealing the border, genuinely enforcing the laws, and as 3333 suggested working out some sort of amnesty seems to me to be the best choice.
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I agree with you on the "ends" but not the "means".
Birth right is written in our constitution. Unless we want to change that (amendment?) then it is what it is.
Kicking every illegal alien out of this country is not practical at this point. The cost, the trouble, the ethical questions (with the children), sudden absence of cheap labor, etc..
Sealing the border, genuinely enforcing the laws, and as 3333 suggested working out some sort of amnesty seems to me to be the best choice.
I favor policies that will encourage self deportation. We don't need ICE officers going door to door - there are cheaper easier ways to make these people go home.
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I favor policies that will encourage self deportation. We don't need ICE officers going door to door - there are cheaper easier ways to make these people go home.
I agree with that too, but it won't get them to all to leave.
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I agree with that too, but it won't get them to all to leave.
we don't nee all of them to go home, just enough to discourage new ones from coming and the existing ones not so brazen to openly rip off the system.
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Imagine.... if any of us drove down to Mexico City...
And we announced to their media that we were there illegally, and that it was time to riot if the govt refused to give us the rights that Mexicans enjoyed.
Holy shit, it would be a short ride to a long jail sentence.
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"“This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”
Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot. We need to do everything Blacks did to get their civil rights!”
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA
A fvcking ILLEGAL... on our soil... screaming "this is war".
I'd say we treat her like any other foreign enemy screaming about war in our country...
I told you this was shping up t be a illegal/Legal War, much like the Slave States vs Free States issue.
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I told you this was shping up t be a illegal/Legal War, much like the Slave States vs Free States issue.
LOL-- Who do you think would win, and how long would it take for one side ( or the other to be objective) to surrender?
How fast do you think the response will be by the government, and how soon will the public itself mount a massive backlash?
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LOL-- Who do you think would win, and how long would it take for one side ( or the other to be objective) to surrender?
How fast do you think the response will be by the government, and how soon will the public itself mount a massive backlash?
Well, does 333 fit into the equation? He could be the pivotal factor.
I also think the side that would win, is the one who has more invested...Many illegals don't care about being a legal citizen, hence the Mexican and El Salvadorian flags, they want to make some money send that home and retire like a king. Why live ? So many would just roll out and not fight.
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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.
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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.
that was then...now he could say, "We have invaded mainland AMerica...there is a Toyota in every driveway"
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that was then...now he could say, "We have invaded mainland AMerica...there is a Toyota in every driveway"
True in the sense that we have allowed a soft invasion.
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Good. There should be a bright-line rule: you want to be a citizen you comply with the law. Forget that amnesty crap.
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Good. There should be a bright-line rule: you want to be a citizen you comply with the law. Forget that amnesty crap.
It's called votes, disguised as being compassionate...
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Nightmare? What's a nightmare for the illegals? They break the law, leach off the system, get tons of free shit, a huge voice in D.C. and all sorts of other stuff that doesn't cost them a dime.
Far from a nightmare, methinks.
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Good. There should be a bright-line rule: you want to be a citizen you comply with the law. Forget that amnesty crap.
I'm against amnesty. But I"m okay with letting all the current illegals stay, as long as they sign a piece of paper. What do you guys think? Sensible, or ignorant?
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I'm against amnesty. But I"m okay with letting all the current illegals stay, as long as they sign a piece of paper. What do you guys think? Sensible, or ignorant?
Many are illiterate in their own language, and I many Latin countries, they don't use initials, so when you ask them to sign their initials, they look at you like you have four heads.