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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on December 23, 2010, 06:30:12 AM
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Big tax hike in Oregon results in substantially less revenue
Washington Examiner ^ | 12/22/10 | Mark Hemingway
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Last year, voters in Oregon voted to raise taxes on the highest income earners in the state, giving Oregon the highest tax rates of any state in the nation. It hasn't worked out too well for Oregonians, according to the Wall Street Journal:
In 2009 the state legislature raised the tax rate to 10.8% on joint-filer income of between $250,000 and $500,000, and to 11% on income above $500,000. Only New York City’s rate is higher. Oregon’s liberal voters ratified the tax increase on individuals and another on businesses in January of this year, no doubt feeling good about their “shared sacrifice.”
Congratulations. Instead of $180 million collected last year from the new tax, the state received $130 million. The Eugene Register-Guard newspaper reports that after the tax was raised “income tax and other revenue collections began plunging so steeply that any gains from the two measures seemed trivial.”
One reason revenues are so low is that about one-quarter of the rich tax filers seem to have gone missing. The state expected 38,000 Oregonians to pay the higher tax, but only 28,000 did.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...
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Typical leftist shit in action.
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Same garbage happened in Maryland.
Fact: Liberalism never works.
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Bump.
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how do you know they went missing
maybe they just didn't have the higher income this year (or any income for that matter)
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how do you know they went missing
maybe they just didn't have the higher income this year (or any income for that matter)
::) ::)
Same thing happened in Maryland when they tried this crap. And guss what? The tyical liberal dolts always start new programs based on antipated reenues from these schemes that convenietly never seems to materialize as people are already taxed to the max and sick of paying these punitive extortions.
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::) ::)
Same thing happened in Maryland when they tried this crap. And guss what? The tyical liberal dolts always start new programs based on antipated reenues from these schemes that convenietly never seems to materialize as people are already taxed to the max and sick of paying these punitive extortions.
I love living in CA and I'd never move to TX or some similar state just to save a few buck in taxes
to each his own
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I love living in CA and I'd never move to TX or some similar state just to save a few buck in taxes
to each his own
Do you even read the news as to the fiscal shape your state is in?
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Do you even read the news as to the fiscal shape your state is in?
I do
I guess you're suggesting I should sell my house, shut down my business (or try to re-establish it elsewhere), say goodbye to all my friends and run away
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West coast continues to get ravaged by the failure of uber-liberalism...... sad.....beautiful part of the country going down the shitter.
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I do
I guess you're suggesting I should sell my house, shut down my business (or try to re-establish it elsewhere), say goodbye to all my friends and run away
No, but for you to remain a lib in spite of all of the failure that surrounds you with regard to the policies your crazy state has followed for decades seems a little strange.
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No, but for you to remain a lib in spite of all of the failure that surrounds you with regard to the policies your crazy state has followed for decades seems a little strange.
so you're saying I shouldn't leave yet it seems "strange" that I would stay???
have you considered the possibility that maybe money is not my primary motivation for every decision in life?
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so you're saying I shouldn't leave yet it seems "strange" that I would stay???
have you considered the possibility that maybe money is not my primary motivation for every decision in life?
Didnt say it was, but California seems to be the case book for failure on many other things as well.
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Didnt say it was, but California seems to be the case book for failure on many other things as well.
well we're one of the largest economies on the planet and have many problem that are similar to other states and other nations for that matter.
When my friends and family visit from Texas and Georgia they always say how great the weather is (regardless of the time of year), what nice area I live in etc... Even if I didn't own a home I would still want to live here.
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well we're one of the largest economies on the planet and have many problem that are similar to other states and other nations for that matter.
When my friends and family visit from Texas and Georgia they always say how great the weather is (regardless of the time of year), what nice area I live in etc... Even if I didn't own a home I would still want to live here.
I don't doubt that at all, but your state is still going down.
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My brother and his family bailed on Cali a couple of years ago.....his wife was born and raised there..... he is very happy in Kentuck, of all places, now.
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well we're one of the largest economies on the planet and have many problem that are similar to other states and other nations for that matter.
When my friends and family visit from Texas and Georgia they always say how great the weather is (regardless of the time of year), what nice area I live in etc... Even if I didn't own a home I would still want to live here.
Im sure you could find a place that had comprable whether
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My brother and his family bailed on Cali a couple of years ago.....his wife was born and raised there..... he is very happy in Kentuck, of all places, now.
Many businesses are fleeing to colorado, NM, NV, AZ etc because of th anti business climate in Cali. The public sector unions are killing off the private sector, illegals running wild, and on and on.
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Good. Class warfare = fail.
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Many businesses are fleeing to colorado, NM, NV, AZ etc because of th anti business climate in Cali. The public sector unions are killing off the private sector, illegals running wild, and on and on.
My sis-in-law owned 2 Real Estate offices and a mtg brokerage company.....had been in the industry for 15 yrs, but you can imagine what that was like for the last few years....
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Do what Rush did. HEAD TO THE SUNSHINE STATE!!
Florida: All of the beauty of California (and more), with little of the left-winged foolishness.
Warm weather - GOT IT!!
Palm Trees - CHECK!!
Beautiful women - all around, especially in the 3-0-5.
Beaches - Take your pick!!
Disney - No problem!!
NO STATE TAXES - HALLELUJAH!!!
And speaking of which, plenty of places of worship for you and your family, if you so please. And religious private schools, should you find the public school system less-than-desirable (like me).
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Good. Class warfare = fail.
do the rich ever wage war on the poor and middle class?
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No. They try to make a profit. Is giving people jobs considered warfare?
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No. They try to make a profit. Is giving people jobs considered warfare?
so the concept of class warfare is always a "poor against rich" thing?
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so the concept of class warfare is always a "poor against rich" thing?
in this day in time, what is it you think that the rich do to declare warfare on the poor straw? serious question just curious
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in this day in time, what is it you think that the rich do to declare warfare on the poor straw? serious question just curious
is the concept of class warfare always a "poor against rich" thing?
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is the concept of class warfare always a "poor against rich" thing?
no it can go back and forth,
in this day in age what is it you think that the rich do to declare "war" on the poor?
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no it can go back and forth,
in this day in age what is it you think that the rich do to declare "war" on the poor?
what ways do the poor organize and conduct war on the rich ?
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The war is the govt against the taxpayer.
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what ways do the poor organize and conduct war on the rich ?
depends on what you consider rich but...
placing 70% of the tax burden for the entire country on the top 10% seems like a good place to start...
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depends on what you consider rich but...
placing 70% of the tax burden for the entire country on the top 10% seems like a good place to start...
so "poor" people got together and structured the tax code in that way
is that your example of the class warfare of the poor against rich?
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so "poor" people got together and structured the tax code in that way
is that your example of the class warfare of the poor against rich?
politicians on behalf of poor ppl
are you ever going to answer my question or is this going to be the usual, side step, side step, ask your own question etc...?
what do the rich do th declare "war" on the poor?
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The only class war we have is the far left and govt class against the middle class taxpayer.
The far left is doing more damage to this nation than 50 bin ladens ever could. And by far left I include corporate communists and socialists lime ge, goldman sachs, and all the other maddoffs getting the govt to force their shit on us by force of law and taxation.
The worst thing we ever did was bailout these criminals.
I have to find the story from maryland though. Same shit happened. The madoffs in govt tried another tax scam like this and it totally backfired.
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Do what Rush did. HEAD TO THE SUNSHINE STATE!!
Florida: All of the beauty of California (and more), with little of the left-winged foolishness.
Warm weather - GOT IT!!
Palm Trees - CHECK!!
Beautiful women - all around, especially in the 3-0-5.
Beaches - Take your pick!!
Disney - No problem!!
NO STATE TAXES - HALLELUJAH!!!
And speaking of which, plenty of places of worship for you and your family, if you so please. And religious private schools, should you find the public school system less-than-desirable (like me).
That actually sounds pretty good. Must investigate. :)
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politicians on behalf of poor ppl
are you ever going to answer my question or is this going to be the usual, side step, side step, ask your own question etc...?
what do the rich do th declare "war" on the poor?
bahahahaha !!
yeah those poor people have powerful lobbyist in Washington
the charge of class warfare ALWAYS comes from the rich
it's classic Orwellian Projection where you accuse others of what you're actualy doing yourself.
the "poor" are too busy trying to make money and pay the bills and have no time or money to engage in a "class war".
The rich on the other hand have the time, have the money, access to power and the incentive to engage in class war and the first step is to accuse the poor of doing it to them
The gap between the rich and the poor is the largest it been in almost 80 years (and grew the most from 1980 to present) so if the poor are really waging a war (I laugh every time I even think about that because it's so f'ng ridiculous) then they are doing a pretty bad job
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Notice straw as the govt gets bigger and bigger and as more and more laws and regulations are enacted the problem only seems to get worse?
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Notice straw as the govt gets bigger and bigger and as more and more laws and regulations are enacted the problem only seems to get worse?
by problem do you mean the massive and ever increasing gap between rich and poor?
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Ill let you make the connection. You won't of course because like the lib you are you think govt is a force for good when in fact its the opposite.
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Ill let you make the connection. You won't of course because like the lib you are you think govt is a force for good when in fact its the opposite.
you're the one that said "the problem" and since you're prone to ADD and veer off on tangents I just asked for clarification of what exactly is "the problem" that you're referrring to
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I do believe it is a problem. The growing gap in wealth is not good for the nation. But I don't think raising taxes, imposing regulations that always seem to benefit special interests is doing anything but hurting the situation.
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I do believe it is a problem. The growing gap in wealth is not good for the nation. But I don't think raising taxes, imposing regulations that always seem to benefit special interests is doing anything but hurting the situation.
then you have nothing to worry about because taxes are about where they were in the 1920's and that turned out great
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
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Straw - notice how the highest taxed states are in the worst shape? Why do you guess that is?
Btw - why do you never bnring up the role of the fed in any of this?
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bahahahaha !!
yeah those poor people have powerful lobbyist in Washington
the charge of class warfare ALWAYS comes from the rich
it's classic Orwellian Projection where you accuse others of what you're actualy doing yourself.
the "poor" are too busy trying to make money and pay the bills and have no time or money to engage in a "class war".
The rich on the other hand have the time, have the money, access to power and the incentive to engage in class war and the first step is to accuse the poor of doing it to them
The gap between the rich and the poor is the largest it been in almost 80 years (and grew the most from 1980 to present) so if the poor are really waging a war (I laugh every time I even think about that because it's so f'ng ridiculous) then they are doing a pretty bad job
LMFAO so the class warefare is always from the rich to the poor never the other way around?
hahahah sounds like another straw man classic somebody write that down for the wall of shame....
::) ::) ::)
youre a moron...
Overall, these data on high-income tax returns appear to confirm that the recent recession had the same diminishing effect on income inequality that most recessions have, and that it occurred for the same reason, a sharp decline in income at the high end. This appears to contradict recent reports based upon Census data suggesting the opposite, that this recession had actually increased income inequality.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
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what % of the total income tax taken in do you think the top 10% should be responsible for straw?
how about the bottom 50%?
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Straw - notice how the highest taxed states are in the worst shape? Why do you guess that is?
Btw - why do you never bnring up the role of the fed in any of this?
333 - this is something you do quite often. You make some vague and generic statement such as "better" or "worse" and then you immediately draw some conclusion without any proof or cause and effect.
What do you mean by "worse shape" ?
Are you talking about "worse" from a budget perspective or unemployment or number of residents above/below the poverty level, etc...
rather than just "guess" as you said how about show some proof of whatever claim it is you're trying to make?
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LMFAO so the class warefare is always from the rich to the poor never the other way around?
hahahah sounds like another straw man classic somebody write that down for the wall of shame....
::) ::) ::)
youre a moron...
Overall, these data on high-income tax returns appear to confirm that the recent recession had the same diminishing effect on income inequality that most recessions have, and that it occurred for the same reason, a sharp decline in income at the high end. This appears to contradict recent reports based upon Census data suggesting the opposite, that this recession had actually increased income inequality.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
how does this show those cunnying poor people are waging "class warfare" on the rich
all it shows is that wealthy people are not immune to the effets of a poor economy which was exactly my point on the first page when I suggested that the lower tax revenue in Oregon might simply be because fewer people had the higher income of prior years
the idea that the poor are waging class warfare on the rich is laughable and like I said that charge always comes from the rich
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how does this show those cunnying poor people are waging "class warfare" on the rich
all it shows is that wealthy people are not immune to the effets of a poor economy which was exactly my point on the first page when I suggested that the lower tax revenue in Oregon might simply be because fewer people had the higher income of prior years
the idea that the poor are waging class warfare on the rich is laughable and like I said that charge always comes from the rich
I didnt post that to show poor ppl waging war on the rich ::)
how do the rich wage war on the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for your answers ;)
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I didnt post that to show poor ppl waging war on the rich ::)
how do the rich wage war on the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for your answers ;)
the claim of "class warfare" is lingo used by the rich.....period
the only time you here about it is when rich people are bitching about their taxes
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the claim of "class warfare" is lingo used by the rich.....period
the only time you here about it is when rich people are bitching about their taxes
how do rich ppl wage war on the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions ;)
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Problem is that rich people never end up paying the increased taxes and it falls on the middle class and those seeking upward mobility.
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how do rich ppl wage war on the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions ;)
simple example
Reagan raised social security tax to pay for tax cuts he gave to the weathly
every tax cut that is not paid for with spending cuts just passes the burden/defict to the masses
in general the "class warfare" claim is bullshit
there never was a war
the wealthy won by default yet they are always the one making the claim that such a war exists
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simple example
Reagan raised social security tax to pay for tax cuts he gave to the weathly
every tax cut that is not paid for with spending cuts just passes the burden/defict to the masses
in general the "class warfare" claim is bullshit
there never was a war
the wealthy won by default yet they are always the one making the claim that such a war exists
LOL so by that logic obama spending more and raising and wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy is class warfare by the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions
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LOL so by that logic obama spending more and raising and wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy is class warfare by the poor?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions
The Republicans holding up every bit of legislation until they get tax cuts for millionares (keep in mind that the Dems offered favorable tax cuts up to 500k or so and it wasn't good enough) is definitely class warfare in fact it's outright warfare against our country regardless of class
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The Republicans holding up every bit of legislation until they get tax cuts for millionares (keep in mind that the Dems offered favorable tax cuts up to 500k or so and it wasn't good enough) is definitely class warfare in fact it's outright warfare against our country regardless of class
LOL again so obama raising spending and funding it by raising taxes on the rich is class warfare as well?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions ;)
FOR THE FOURTH TIME!!!!
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LOL again so obama raising spending and funding it by raising taxes on the rich is class warfare as well?
what percentage of the tax burden do you think is right for the top 10% or earners in the US?
and same for the bottom 50%?
thanks in advance for answering the questions ;)
FOR THE FOURTH TIME!!!!
spare me the caps and bold
I've said all I care to on the matter of the phony baloney class war on the rich
If you can't figure out my point of view then go back and read this thread again
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spare me the caps and bold
I've said all I care to on the matter of the phony baloney class war on the rich
If you can't figure out my point of view then go back and read this thread again
LOL by your logic brain child increasing spending and raising taxes on the rich is class warfare by the poor
do you not understand that?
way to not address any of the questions, how old are you seriously?
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LOL by your logic brain child increasing spending and raising taxes on the rich is class warfare by the poor
do you not understand that?
way to not address any of the questions, how old are you seriously?
did I say that?
No I did not
as usual, I simply have run out of patience and interest with trying to explain things to you over and over again
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did I say that?
No I did not
as usual, I simply have run out of patience and interest with trying to explain things to you over and over again
LOL you said that reagan cutting social security to pay for tax cuts for the rich was an example of the rich ppls warfare on the poor
so logically obama wanting to extend unemployment benefits while trying to raise taxes on the rich to pay for it is?
follow the logic dumb ass ::)
goodness gracious youre bright one :o
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LOL you said that reagan cutting social security to pay for tax cuts for the rich was an example of the rich ppls warfare on the poor
so logically obama wanting to extend unemployment benefits while trying to raise taxes on the rich to pay for it is?
follow the logic dumb ass ::)
goodness gracious youre bright one :o
oh brother
the logic professor strikes again
go back and re-read the thread and you'll know exactly what I think about phony claim of class war made by the rich and only by the rich
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oh brother
the logic professor strikes again
go back and re-read the thread and you'll know exactly what I think about phony claim of class war made by the rich and only by the rich
LOL its using your same logic
hahahahah yet another classic straw man thread as I said earlier
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REVIEW & OUTLOOKMAY 27, 2009.
Millionaires Go Missing
Maryland's fleeced taxpayers fight back
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:79Jn15BeztoJ:online.wsj.com/article/SB124329282377252471.html+maryland+millionaires+leave+state&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Here's a two-minute drill in soak-the-rich economics:
Maryland couldn't balance its budget last year, so the state tried to close the shortfall by fleecing the wealthy. Politicians in Annapolis created a millionaire tax bracket, raising the top marginal income-tax rate to 6.25%. And because cities such as Baltimore and Bethesda also impose income taxes, the state-local tax rate can go as high as 9.45%. Governor Martin O'Malley, a dedicated class warrior, declared that these richest 0.3% of filers were "willing and able to pay their fair share." The Baltimore Sun predicted the rich would "grin and bear it."
One year later, nobody's grinning. One-third of the millionaires have disappeared from Maryland tax rolls. In 2008 roughly 3,000 million-dollar income tax returns were filed by the end of April. This year there were 2,000, which the state comptroller's office concedes is a "substantial decline." On those missing returns, the government collects 6.25% of nothing. Instead of the state coffers gaining the extra $106 million the politicians predicted, millionaires paid $100 million less in taxes than they did last year -- even at higher rates.
No doubt the majority of that loss in millionaire filings results from the recession. However, this is one reason that depending on the rich to finance government is so ill-advised: Progressive tax rates create mountains of cash during good times that vanish during recessions. For evidence, consult California, New York and New Jersey (see here).
The Maryland state revenue office says it's "way too early" to tell how many millionaires moved out of the state when the tax rates rose. But no one disputes that some rich filers did leave. It's easier than the redistributionists think. Christopher Summers, president of the Maryland Public Policy Institute, notes: "Marylanders with high incomes typically own second homes in tax friendlier states like Florida, Delaware, South Carolina and Virginia. So it's easy for them to change their residency."
All of this means that the burden of paying for bloated government in Annapolis will fall on the middle class. Thanks to the futility of soaking the rich, these working families will now pay Mr. O'Malley's "fair share."
:o :o :o
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The war is the govt against the taxpayer.
so the United States of America is conducting a war against it's own citizens?
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Yes.
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Those missing millionaires
Waterbury Republican-Republican ^ | December 28, 2010 | Editorial
________________________ ________________________ _________________
The left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy and right-leaning Wall Street Journal editorial page are debating the whereabouts of thousands of missing millionaires. It seems that whenever a state government imposes a big tax increase on high-earning or wealthy taxpayers — they're not always one and the same — revenue projections turn up catastrophically wrong because the so-called millionaires are nowhere to be found.
For example, Maryland expected to raise $106 million in 2008 by increasing the income-tax rate on high earners from 4.75 percent to 6.25 percent. Instead, "taxes paid by rich filers fell by 22 percent, and instead of their payments increasing by $106 million, they fell by some $257 million," the Journal's editorial page observed March 17.
More recently, the Journal revisited the Maryland experience by way of Oregon. "In 2009 the state legislature raised the tax rate to 10.8 percent on joint-filer income of between $250,000 and $500,000, and to 11 percent on income above $500,000," the Journal noted Dec. 21. "Instead of $180 million collected last year from the new tax, the state received $130 million."
During the same period, the number of high-end filers declined from 38,000 to 28,000. That's where ITEP jumps in.
"There is a much simpler explanation for this discrepancy," it said in a Dec. 22 paper. "These 10,000 taxpayers earned less than the Legislative Revenue Office expected in 2009 as a result of the economic recession, and therefore fell below the income threshold at which the new brackets took effect."
Hmmm. All of them? So the Journal was wrong when it pointed out in March, "A lot of rich people have two homes," and not a single tycoon was moved to declare himself a legal resident of Florida?
What the tax-increasers and class-warfarists never seem to understand is that everybody — rich, poor and those in the middle — makes financial decisions based on rational evaluations of their circumstances.
A few years ago, a study found a poor person living in Connecticut, lacking skills and education, would have to earn $14 an hour by working to match the benefits, in cash and services, he received through various public-assistance programs. He's not lazy or stupid; quite the opposite. By not working, he's making a rational economic decision based on the fact he couldn't earn $14 an hour in the work force.
Of course, if those welfare benefits were withdrawn, he'd have to move to a state where welfare benefits were more generous or the cost of living was commensurate with the amount he could actually earn in a job. Such a circumstance would result in a better life for him and a lighter burden on taxpayers.
Is it any wonder wealthy people and high earners — again, not necessarily one and the same — respond in much the same way to economic stimuli and impositions by government?
This year, Connecticut lawmakers and the new governor, Dan Malloy, will have some tough decisions to make regarding taxes, spending and entitlements. They should be wary of solutions that send them down the same paths Oregon, and Maryland before it, followed, to their eventual dismay.