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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dj181 on December 31, 2010, 05:39:40 AM
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Any body have much experience with it? If so, please share. FYI, I'm gonna give it a run in my quest for 17 inch arms at my twink natural 160 8)
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Any body have much experience with it? If so, please share. FYI, I'm gonna give it a run in my quest for 17 inch arms at my twink natural 160 8)
if you want to kill your tendons and joints in the fastest way, go for it!
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Negative dips one of the best exercises I have ever done for chest. Negative only works but in small doses ie too much you overtrain. The problem with most negative only is getting enough weight into postion to be effective some of the old nautilus machines had foot pedals where as you could do them much easier.
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Don't really see the point in it to be honest.
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Even if you keep the reps higher (8 to 10) and take a full 10 seconds for lowering each rep? You see, I am a natural trainer, and I am pathetically weak, so I think that it's still quite safe pour moi. For example, I can only use 35 pounds on negative-only dumbbell concentration curls. I can understand the danger if I was using an 80 or 90 pound db, but that sure ain't happening anywhere in the near future ;D
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Even if you keep the reps higher (8 to 10) and take a full 10 seconds for lowering each rep? You see, I am a natural trainer, and I am pathetically weak, so I think that it's still quite safe pour moi. For example, I can only use 35 pounds on negative-only dumbbell concentration curls. I can understand the danger if I was using an 80 or 90 pound db, but that sure ain't happening anywhere in the near future ;D
you are fooling yourself to think it is safe.
Any load that you cannot move positively is too much for you. If you could only curl 5lbs, then a negative with 7lbs would overwork your tendons, joints and muscles.
Learn to lift smart, lift slower, use pre-exhausting techniques or whatever, but negatives will only hurt you in the long run.
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4 NEGATIVE TRAINING IMMEDIATLEY
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GREAT POST DJ more negative training!!
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DJ A FANTASTIC POSTER YET ADVISING EVEN MORE NEGATIVE TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yeah Falcon, maybe I should follow your protocol of standing all day long to develop a massive set of wheels, just like you claim that is possible ;)
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Yeah Falcon, maybe I should follow your protocol of standing all day long to develop a massive set of wheels, just like you claim that is possible ;)
you dont think i workout too? what i dont have is a gym membership
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This type of training is like begging for injuries. I only use them as set-extenders for another 2-4 reps
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I don't have a gym membership either bro, I just have a set of adjustable DB's in my apartment and a bar to perform chin-ups, and that's alls I gots. And I also have a stationary bike, as well.
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I don't have a gym membership either bro, I just have a set of adjustable DB's in my apartment and a bar to perform chin-ups, and that's alls I gots. And I also have a stationary bike, as well.
Yes type of stuff has worked for Falcon for years all Falcon principles.
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I don't have a gym membership either bro, I just have a set of adjustable DB's in my apartment and a bar to perform chin-ups, and that's alls I gots. And I also have a stationary bike, as well.
So you're idea is to do only negatives @home?
DON'T DO THAT!
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I'm only gonna do negative on DB concentration curls and push-ups, yeah push-ups. I have a backpack that I can load up with weight plates which enables me to do negative-only push-ups. My goal is to add over an inch to my arms, so I will only train with a maintance style on my legs and back, just to maintain them and have extra energy and reserve to focus ALL of my energy on those 2 exercises. In my experience, it is best just to focus on building up only one or two body parts, while giving a minimum level of effort to maintain the other bodyparts. I have NEVER been able to make ALL my body parts grow at the same time, so for me it works best just to focus on one or 2 body parts at a time.
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I think the real problem is ur arms will never gain significant mass without your body weight going up. Why not aim for a few pounds increase. My arms never even came close to 17 inches till i weighed over 190 at 5,8. Good luck with the negative training be smart.
Like others said, prefer using it as a set extender rather then pure negatives. You are trying to increase size not strength.
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Good point man, and actually that's part of why I want to give it a run (ie strength increse) coz if it greatly increases my strength, then I can use much heavier training loads when I return back to "normal training". Yeah, I think that I'm dreaming when I say a 17 inch arm at a buck 60, but now my arms are 15.75 inches at about a buck 70, but I'm a fat and bloated toad at the moment at roughly 15% bodyfat, so if I can his sub-6 at 165, then maybe 17 inch arms are possible?
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I'm only gonna do negative on DB concentration curls and push-ups, yeah push-ups. I have a backpack that I can load up with weight plates which enables me to do negative-only push-ups. My goal is to add over an inch to my arms, so I will only train with a maintance style on my legs and back, just to maintain them and have extra energy and reserve to focus ALL of my energy on those 2 exercises. In my experience, it is best just to focus on building up only one or two body parts, while giving a minimum level of effort to maintain the other bodyparts. I have NEVER been able to make ALL my body parts grow at the same time, so for me it works best just to focus on one or 2 body parts at a time.
Growth isn't a local process. This is only the case when you do isolation exercises only.
You can't do those push ups on a proper way; who's gonna help with the concentric part?
Also keep in mind that this type of training is mentally tough, esp @home.
Don't waste your time and go to a gym and do your squats, presses & rows.
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Man, now you wanna lose weight and gain over an inch on your arms. Not to burst your bubble but someones got to say it.
NO CHANCE IN HELL DUDE.
You will defiantly hurt yourself somewere along the line if your on a diet and negative training.
In my experience, and many others I'm sure, one inch on your arms = 10 pounds on your body at least. that's just a guesstimate.
Also one inch on your arms = at least one year of serious eating and training.
I think you need to reconsider your approach and goals, short term goals first need to be more realistic.
Try and get your arms over 16 and then try and keep them there while dieting. That may be an eye opener.
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Are you sure that growth doesn't occur in a localized way? I've always experienced growth in a localized way. And as far as the push-ups, yeah I know that they are a compound movement, so I won't just gain in the tris from doing them. Also I place my hands on the edge on my sofa when I do these push-ups, so this enables me to stand up and reposition myself after each rep in order to do a proper negative.
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Sorry mitchyboy, I see that I didn't make myself so clear, so what I meant to say was my goal is to go from 170 15% bodyfat with 15.75 inch arms to 165 at sub-6 with 17 inch arms. So it more of a transformation 15% to 6% while keeping the body weight roughly the same.
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I'm only gonna do negative on DB concentration curls and push-ups, yeah push-ups. I have a backpack that I can load up with weight plates which enables me to do negative-only push-ups. My goal is to add over an inch to my arms, so I will only train with a maintance style on my legs and back, just to maintain them and have extra energy and reserve to focus ALL of my energy on those 2 exercises. In my experience, it is best just to focus on building up only one or two body parts, while giving a minimum level of effort to maintain the other bodyparts. I have NEVER been able to make ALL my body parts grow at the same time, so for me it works best just to focus on one or 2 body parts at a time.
You only train about once as week as is, what's maintenance training entail?
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Are you sure that growth doesn't occur in a localized way? I've always experienced growth in a localized way. And as far as the push-ups, yeah I know that they are a compound movement, so I won't just gain in the tris from doing them. Also I place my hands on the edge on my sofa when I do these push-ups, so this enables me to stand up and reposition myself after each rep in order to do a proper negative.
Yes I'm very sure about that, but I invite everyone here to debate this. Don't confuse a local pump with hypertrophy.
What are your motivations to train at home?
Don't use furniture for workouts unless someone puts it on Youtube ;)
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Yes I'm very sure about that, but I invite everyone here to debate this. Don't confuse a local pump with hypertrophy.
What are your motivations to train at home?
Don't use furniture for workouts unless someone puts it on Youtube ;)
Localized as in what? I train chest and arms and my chest and arms get bigger, I don't need to do squats to grow my chest and i sure as hell don't need to gain 10lb all over to put size on my arms.
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I see a little better what you are getting at. Just FYI, that's not negative only training, but were talking semantics here lol. Pure negative training is taking a weight you can not lift one time, and slowly lowering it, having assist to get it up and repeating.
Your talking about end of set negatives which can be very beneficial. I say go for it, this is all an experiment anyways ha ha. That's what makes it fun.
As far as gaining 'size' while losing or even remaining the same weight, that's a pipe dream perpetuated by the supp company's.
If you gain size, were do you suppose it will come from, thin air? You must have a calorie surplus in order to gain "weight", IE. muscle.
See the problem here? If you don't gain weight, IE muscle, again were will it come from to be on your arms.
When you figure that out please let me know, ha ha.
One caveat. When you are just first starting out, you may gain quickly and even lose some bodyfat. This quickly comes to a raging halt, and frustrates the hell out of new trainers. This is were patience and maturity come in. Keep plugging away and the gains will come.
Just probably not as fast as you would like.
Jesus sorry for the novel.
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Good one Dropping Plates ;) I don't know man, I guess that I don't want any tough guys at the gym giving me any hard stares ;) And as far as localized growth, I had it with my legs years back when I gain 5 pounds of bodyweight and dropped a bit of fat, while putting ALL of that weight on my legs, as they increased their size by nearly 2 inches, and the rest of my body stay exactly the same size.
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Well Jamie, I'm gonna try something a bit different and do this negative training every 48 to 96 hours. And as far as maintaining back and legs, I can do this by training then every 2 weeks, or every 14 days.
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Yeah mitchyboy, I see what you're saying man, but... I actually did go from 160 @ 12% bodyfat to 165 @ 11% bodyfat in 5 weeks (see my above post about leg training) and yeah, I'm a lifetime natural trainer.
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As far as localized growth, i do belive in it. Why do any other excersizes at all just squat. Why do people curl? Why do people bench?
I still stick with the overall body mass increase, for arm and any other bodypart increase. Does that make it true localized grow?
I dont know, but one thing i do know, if i didnt train arms and such, they wouldnt have gone from under 12, to over 17 pumped now.
I do know that if you only train arms all the time, and dont make an efort to increases everything else, your arms will never reach there potential.
But i also believe if you only squat all the time, and never work arms, your arms will never reach there full potential.
Makes sense to me lol.
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Localized as in what? I train chest and arms and my chest and arms get bigger, I don't need to do squats to grow my chest and i sure as hell don't need to gain 10lb all over to put size on my arms.
Like I said, a localized pump. Sure, your chest & arms will grow, but doing presses will also stimulate other areas like your back, delts, forearms and serratus anterior. Want proof? Look at powerlifters, they put most of their focus on the big three exercises and guess what? They achieve overall development, much more than the average gym rat doing isolation's/machine work.
And yes, squats will help your chest grow. Thinking that they only work for the legs tells me that you don't do them seriously.
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You may be one of the lucky ones man haha. If its not just first year growth, that you experienced, and you can keep that up, theres no reason you cant continue and be 170 at 6-8 percent in time, mabye a few months, mabye a year. I highly doubt it though but good luck.
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Like I said, a localized pump. Sure, your chest & arms will grow, but doing presses will also stimulate other areas like your back, delts, forearms and serratus anterior. Want proof? Look at powerlifters, they put most of their focus on the big three exercises and guess what? They achieve overall development, much more than the average gym rat doing isolation's/machine work.
And yes, squats will help your chest grow. Thinking that they only work for the legs tells me that you don't do them seriously.
How will squats help my chest grow? The minisclule test and Gh release?
I train what i want to build. I know that when i isolate chest for example, that's where all my weight goes. It is very easy to establish visually. Sure there are numerous ways to train and certain methods might be more efficent than others, but of course growth is localized if you isolate.
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H.I.T. is best.
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Dropping Plates = on the money.
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How will squats help my chest grow? The minisclule test and Gh release?
Wrong, squats & deads are the largest GH releasing exercises (yes, this has been researched). This plus the fact that stabilising your upper body during squats puts stress on your back, arms, delts, traps & chest (esp when going deep) and the tension on your thorax indirectly helps to build a good upper body.
I train what i want to build. I know that when i isolate chest for example, that's where all my weight goes. It is very easy to establish visually. Sure there are numerous ways to train and certain methods might be more efficent than others, but of course growth is localized if you isolate.
I've never seen a huge guy doing only isolation (well, it's never 100%) exercises. In case of chest training, only the pec deck would be valid.
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Wrong, squats & deads are the largest GH releasing exercises (yes, this has been researched). This plus the fact that stabilising your upper body during squats puts stress on your back, arms, delts, traps & chest (esp when going deep) and the tension on your thorax indirectly helps to build a good upper body.
I've never seen a huge guy doing only isolation (well, it's never 100%) exercises. In case of chest training, only the pec deck would be valid.
I have read numerous studies that suggest that GH release from the big compound movements is so small as to be insignificant.
You are right i don't completely isolate chest but that is where the emphasis is and that is what i am visualizing. A guy that does squats and bench is not going to build a bigger chest to any discernible degree more than a guy that is just benching.
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I have read numerous studies that suggest that GH release from the big compound movements is so small as to be insignificant.
I don't have statistics, but why don't you do the math yourself? Measure your fat free mass, perform only isolation's for 2 months (extentions, curls, flyes, etc), measure again your FFM, perform multi-joint movements for 2 months and measure again (of course you eat the same for 4 months). Give it a try :D
You are right i don't completely isolate chest but that is where the emphasis is and that is what i am visualizing. A guy that does squats and bench is not going to build a bigger chest to any discernible degree more than a guy that is just benching.
This is more a big picture story. I tried to argument why squats will help. Again, in general hypertrophy is rather a overall than a local process.
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I don't have statistics, but why don't you do the math yourself? Measure your fat free mass, perform only isolation's for 2 months (extentions, curls, flyes, etc), measure again your FFM, perform multi-joint movements for 2 months and measure again (of course you eat the same for 4 months). Give it a try :D
This is more a big picture story. I tried to argument why squats will help. Again, in general hypertrophy is rather a overall than a local process.
I do compounds, i just don't see the signifigance that lower body compounds would have when regarding upperbody growth. Short of certain studies pointing towards Gh/test release, of which the significance is disputed. No i don't care to drop compound movements lol and do that experiment lol.
It may help, but i don't think that it would be of any great significance.
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im sure you are past that basic level where just lifting daily only cuases gains
you need advanced shock growth right? since you are at 400 pound bench alreayd right??
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X3-PbquuO-c/SKnap2Gx4kI/AAAAAAAAAHM/gDsf5RzgImA/s400/WackJob.jpg)
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Speaking of overall growth from barbell squats, Arthur Jones said that it was very much so, due to the indirect effect, but a few years later he altered that statement, and said that the indirect effect is very nil, and that indeed growth is rather localized.
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Speaking of overall growth from barbell squats, Arthur Jones said that it was very much so, due to the indirect effect, but a few years later he altered that statement, and said that the indirect effect is very nil, and that indeed growth is rather localized.
Jones was a wise man with good arguments, but keep in mind that Nautilus made more profit with machines than basic squat racks.
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I remember when I switched to compound movements only in my training for a while and guess what? My arms lost size.
Direct stimulation is vital for arm growth in my opinion, I can't see someone gaining good arm, chest or delt development without direct stimulation.
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Any body have much experience with it? If so, please share. FYI, I'm gonna give it a run in my quest for 17 inch arms at my twink natural 160 8)
Be careful. I had a negative-only mother and father and it almost drove me to suicide.
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Lol! Good one snowman ;D
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And you are right JP, arms do need direct stimulation, especially biceps (of course this is regarding my own weight training experiences)
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17 inch arms at 160 lbs? You need to be in the 190 - 200 lb range
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I'm only gonna do negative on DB concentration curls and push-ups, yeah push-ups. I have a backpack that I can load up with weight plates which enables me to do negative-only push-ups. My goal is to add over an inch to my arms, so I will only train with a maintance style on my legs and back, just to maintain them and have extra energy and reserve to focus ALL of my energy on those 2 exercises. In my experience, it is best just to focus on building up only one or two body parts, while giving a minimum level of effort to maintain the other bodyparts. I have NEVER been able to make ALL my body parts grow at the same time, so for me it works best just to focus on one or 2 body parts at a time.
You're an idiot.
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Come on Donk... Er, I mean DK ;) You can do better than that man! "I'm an idiot"? Ok, prove it! Exactly how am I an idiot? Is it because I said that muscle growth is localized? Come on, smart german man, lets see that german intellect of yours ;D Oh, and by the way, keep this topic related and none of this "Your mama" bullshit
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(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/373/fatpanda.jpg)
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I,m starting to agree with DK here, simply because you asked for our help and oppions , and when they differ slightly from your own,...
well your just gonna do whatever the fuck you want anyway.
You dont understand the concept of adding muscle means adding weight.
You have no understanding of what true negative training is.
You seem to think you can do curls and weighted push ups, hahaha, to acheive your gaols ::) ::) ::)
We have explained this to you numerous times and you refuse to learn and grow.
I guess you have it all figured out. good luck.
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Where did I say that I could add muscle without adding bodyweight? Ok, right now I weigh exactly 167 and my bf is 15%, so therefore my LBW is roughly 142, and if I end up at 165 with 6% bodyfat, then my LBW would be roughly 155, so that is a gain of 13 pounds of muscle, but I would have actually lost weight, since in that case I went from 167 to 165 ;D And what do you mean that I'm not doing negatives? I've eliminated the positive portion of the exercise, and I ONLY do the negative portion, is that not negative-only training? Ok, so I don't only do 3 or 4 reps, while taking 4 seconds to complete the negative rep. I do 8 to 10 reps taking 10 seconds to complete the rep, but it's still negative-only training, plus I train til failure.
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Again, why don't you just join a gym?
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Again, why don't you just join a gym?
There is bullies that laugh at him.
Why somebody chooses to train at home with sofa and pair of dumbbells? Think that.
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Honestly, I like the convience of being able to train at home. And by the way, you don't need a gym with fancy equipment, all you need is some free weights and you are good to go ;D FYI, even Arthur Jones gave plenty of praise to free weights, as he said something to the effect of "If one can't use my machines, then he can still achieve fantastic results using free weights"
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There is bullies that laugh at him.
Why somebody chooses to train at home with sofa and pair of dumbbells? Think that.
English guy, do you speak it?
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work out at your local park or playground
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work out at your local park or playground
The Vince Basile WorkoutTM.
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Do you wanna have a contest with me mass234? Lets do a 6-week bodytranformation contest, with the members here being the judges. The winner will be the one who makes the greatest change/progress in 6 weeks time, are you up for it? And yeah, I will use only my sofa and dumbells ;D
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Honestly, I like the convience of being able to train at home. And by the way, you don't need a gym with fancy equipment, all you need is some free weights and you are good to go ;D FYI, even Arthur Jones gave plenty of praise to free weights, as he said something to the effect of "If one can't use my machines, then he can still achieve fantastic results using free weights"
First off, "convenience" is for lazy fuckers who love to stay in the comfort zone (read: a save place where no one can make them feel insecure, and more positive, a place where they can't learn from others experiences).
Very true, you can build a solid physique with free weights but that doesn't mean a pair of some adjustable DB's and your sofa is sufficient. Biggest problems with training at home: how to stay(!) motivated all year long, how to stay focused, and -optional- how you you hit the wheels seriously?
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The Vince Basile WorkoutTM.
white van optional
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Do you wanna have a contest with me mass234? Lets do a 6-week bodytranformation contest, with the members here being the judges. The winner will be the one who makes the greatest change/progress in 6 weeks time, are you up for it? And yeah, I will use only my sofa and dumbells ;D
::) ::) ::)
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Man ur dim. I'm just about done here. Read what negatives are man for the love of God. You are performing the negative portion of a rep,
not doing pure negatives. All i will say on that.
I don't give a shit what ur starting weight, ending weight, in between weight or anything else is. ur not going to shift the balance of fat to muscle without a calorie surplus, or a calorie deficiency. It really is a simple prosses, I guess not for some though.
If you really think your going to lose bodyfat and gain muscle at the same time i feel sorry for you. And I know what your going to conter with, "I'm not gaining weight because my body weight at the end will be lower".
Wake up junior ???
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Where did I say anything about not going into caloric surplus or deficit? Of course I will use these techniques. P.S. I NEVER said this fat-loss/muscle gain will occur overnight. Come on man! I'm not that dense. FYI, at one point I went from 12% bodyfat to 7.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks, but yeah, I'm sure that you will call bullshit on that one.
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Where did I say anything about not going into caloric surplus or deficit? Of course I will use these techniques. P.S. I NEVER said this fat-loss/muscle gain will occur overnight. Come on man! I'm not that dense. FYI, at one point I went from 12% bodyfat to 7.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks, but yeah, I'm sure that you will call bullshit on that one.
I know you're talking to Mitch, but sure, you don't really need a gym to burn some fat. This is rather a matter of keen diet + cardio, but with your weight this should be your last priority.
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Come on man, I am a natural trainer, and as God (gh15) says, the best I can hope for is 165-170 at 5-6% I am a fatass at 15% so I need to get leaner, not get fatter. So am I also full of shit when I said that I went from 160 at 12% to 165 at 11%? Don't take that question the wrong way, coz I ain't hating man.
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Come on man, I am a natural trainer, and as God (gh15) says, the best I can hope for is 165-170 at 5-6% I am a fatass at 15% so I need to get leaner, not get fatter. So am I also full of shit when I said that I went from 160 at 12% to 165 at 11%? Don't take that question the wrong way, coz I ain't hating man.
Hold on, it's possible to go from 12 to 7.5% bf. I can't guess what your max potential is, this varies on several factors (health, length, bone structure, etc), but basically I think you make 2 important mistakes.
Mistake 1. you want to build some serious mass and burn some serious fat at the same time (I say 'serious', because I don't mean 1-2 pounds). My advice, go to a good gym, train your whole body and keep your BF between 10-15%, once you have some serious overall mass (prob 1-2 years later) it's time for some fat burning (yes, it all takes TIME).
Mistake 2: relying on a pair adjustable DB's in your comfort zone. My advice: well, you should know by know ;)
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Come on man, I am a natural trainer, and as God (gh15) says, the best I can hope for is 165-170 at 5-6% I am a fatass at 15% so I need to get leaner, not get fatter. So am I also full of shit when I said that I went from 160 at 12% to 165 at 11%? Don't take that question the wrong way, coz I ain't hating man.
Don't listen to these clowns.
Nobody on these boards are in touch with their muscles.
Stay at home and get creative. My physique went through the roof when I ditched the gym and stopped "eating to grow" (the biggest fallacy in natural bodybuilding)
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A lot of haters in this thread.
Try new things out, go at it for 3 months and if you don't like the results change it about.
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Don't listen to these clowns.
Nobody on these boards are in touch with their muscles.
Stay at home and get creative. My physique went through the roof when I ditched the gym and stopped "eating to grow" (the biggest fallacy in natural bodybuilding)
Right, we're all full of shit and 'not in touch with our muscles' Got some solid arguments for that claim? ::)
If you support someone who believes in only a pair of adjustables and his sofa you're a clown yourself Mr Lumberjack
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Like a bunch of cackling hens around here.
"Must lift heavy in order to grow"
Yet I've never seen a decent physique posted on this board.
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A lot of haters in this thread.
Try new things out, go at it for 3 months and if you don't like the results change it about.
Come on, has noting to do with hate. In that case I would not spend my time on this thread.
Nothing wrong with some new stuff, but his strategy won't work for gaining serious overall(!) mass
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Like a bunch of cackling hens around here.
"Must lift heavy in order to grow"
Your words, not ours
Yet I've never seen a decent physique posted on this board.
Maybe because you only visit the G&O section, but why don't you join the Mr Getbig competition stud?
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Come on, has noting to do with hate. In that case I would not spend my time on this thread.
Nothing wrong with some new stuff, but his strategy won't work for gaining serious overall(!) mass
as a natural guy he won't be "adding serious mass"
he's trying to tone and shape his physique and lose body fat to actually look like a bodybuilder.
Quality over quantity
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Allright man, I get your point, but I don't really want to have much bigger legs, I am quite satisfied with their current level of development. Yes, all I do for them is lunges, but that's just fine with me ;) Remember, I want 17 inch arms at 165, but yeah, I know that I will probably have to settle for 16 inchers :( (FYI, my former training partner from years back had legit 16 inch arms at a buck 40, he had a 325 pound bench in the 132's) And, in all honestly I am convinced that I can go from 167 15% to 160 6% in 3 or 4 months max. And if mass243 accepts my challange it will certainly happen sooner 8) Also, I have a chinning bar and I can add 150 extra pounds on to my weighted chins.
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Bodybuiding is a lifestyle. dj181 wants to look great 365 days per year.
Adding lots of "weight" as a natural would be the worst thing you could do.
try to cut down your portions, lean out and see your energy go through the roof.
Most guys on this board would look and feel 10x better about after dropping 30lbs
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Bodybuiding is a lifestyle. dj181 wants to look great 365 days per year.
Adding lots of "weight" as a natural would be the worst thing you could do.
try to cut down your portions, lean out and see your energy go through the roof.
Most guys on this board would look and feel 10x better about after dropping 30lbs
I hate all of the bulking/cutting phase ideology that perpetuates with training.
Get yourself in shape, low bodyfat and then make quality lean gains where needed, sculpt yourself.
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as a natural guy he won't be "adding serious mass"
he's trying to tone and shape his physique and lose body fat to actually look like a bodybuilder.
Quality over quantity
Regarding "adding serious mass", I simply can't judge about his potential. Maybe he has -almost- anything done to reach his peak, or maybe he can gain 10-20lb of lean mass. I can't judge on that.
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Ok, so here are the exercises that I can do with max weights included. DB Lunges 80 pounds per hand. DB Military same wt. DB Con Curl same wt. Weighted Chins with 150 pounds added. Weighted Push-ups ;D ;D ;D 150 pounds added. So that's not sufficent to reach my goals of 165 6% 17 inch arms ::) How many of you studs can chin with a buck 50?
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Ok, so here are the exercises that I can do with max weights included. DB Lunges 80 pounds per hand. DB Military same wt. DB Con Curl same wt. Weighted Chins with 150 pounds added. Weighted Push-ups ;D ;D ;D 150 pounds added. So that's not sufficent to reach my goals of 165 6% 17 inch arms ::) How many of you studs can chin with a buck 50?
Sounds good to me. You don't have a decent straight bar? A decent olympic bar and half a dozen 45's and you could cover everything.
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Regarding training at home, how long are you doing this? how often? all year long?
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You can train anywhere with anything as long as you have overload and progression. John Grimek worked out with broomsticks and cinderblocks best I understand.
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I hate all of the bulking/cutting phase ideology that perpetuates with training.
Get yourself in shape, low bodyfat and then make quality lean gains where needed, sculpt yourself.
It's the funniest and most idiotic, common sense thing in all of bodybuilding.
What happens when you overeat? You gain fat.
Why do guys think that lifting weights 4 times a week will change their biochemistry, allowing them to overeat without ending up overweight.
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Thanks for the boost, Boost :) Yeah man, I played the "mass game" for many years, and it didn't do shit for me. I want one of these tough guys (mass243 or flintstones1) to accept my 6 week challange, so I can show how it's done 8) Yeah man, I know that the fire should come within, but negative energy is a very good stimulant pour moi ;D I suppose that I could challange DK II, but I'm afraid that it would only end up being a fat calf challange lol
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I didn't read anything beyond the first couple post, but this should work in theory. The negative is the part of the lift that causes the majority of the microtears that make you get bigger/stronger (and sore). If you only did the positive part and had someone lift the weight off you every rep or whatever, you'd never get sore! (but never get big).
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Good point Jamie, I may buy a barbell in the near future, but the thing is I am trying to bodysculpt myself and add muscle where I need it most ie my arms. My chest is my best upper body part, and I'm quite satisfied with its level of development.
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And dropping plates, I've been training at home for about 6 months now. And for the past 7 years I trained very sporadically, but never suriously or consistantly. Now, I train 3 to 5 days a week.
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you are fooling yourself to think it is safe.
Any load that you cannot move positively is too much for you. If you could only curl 5lbs, then a negative with 7lbs would overwork your tendons, joints and muscles.
Learn to lift smart, lift slower, use pre-exhausting techniques or whatever, but negatives will only hurt you in the long run.
x2.
except for the pre exhaust bit.
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And dropping plates, I've been training at home for about 6 months now. And for the past 7 years I trained very sporadically, but never suriously or consistantly. Now, I train 3 to 5 days a week.
Credits to you if you have the discipline to train consistently hard at home, but please, forget training with negatives only. The list of people with injuries who trained that way is long. Do some research on the web and you know what I mean.
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But is it really so dangerous if I take a full 10 seconds for each lowering and do at least 8 reps per set? Remember, I'm a huge fan of Arthur Jones, and I throughly know his writings. I would say that my training style is a hybrid of Mentzer-Jones.
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But is it really so dangerous if I take a full 10 seconds for each lowering and do at least 8 reps per set? Remember, I'm a huge fan of Arthur Jones, and I throughly know his writings. I would say that my training style is a hybrid of Mentzer-Jones.
You can handle much more weight, about 130% of 1 rep max (this depends on how many reps you want perform and your experience). Jones is a smart man but his HIT training has risks (like every kind of serious protocol BTW). Risk 1: risk of injuries/tears (like Dorians biceps at the end of his career) and risk 2: it could be, sooner or later, to much stress for your nervous system. Search for HIT on this forum for a some experiences. For example. I had to deal with a tennis elbow after some heavy chins, and yes I did them very strict and slow.
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I'm not so sure that I buy this "one can use 130 to 140% of max weight for negatives. For example, I was able to do 6 dip with 100 pounds around my waist, but then I did an experiment where I tried negative-only dips with 125 pounds added, and I could onlw get 3 or 4 negatives with that weight, even though I could do it for 1 regualar/normal rep. But another good question would be... How many natural trainers have had injuries from HIT style training?
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I'm not so sure that I buy this "one can use 130 to 140% of max weight for negatives. For example, I was able to do 6 dip with 100 pounds around my waist, but then I did an experiment where I tried negative-only dips with 125 pounds added, and I could onlw get 3 or 4 negatives with that weight, even though I could do it for 1 regualar/normal rep.
I think this was because your muscles were not used to slow down during the eccentric part. Look at the average gym rat, most of them train with a fast rep speed, esp the eccentric part. This is mostly a matter of practice.
But another good question would be... How many natural trainers have had injuries from HIT style training?
What has natural or not to do with it? You have naturals & juicers with a shitty training style. I think it's rather a matter of experience & proper technique. BTW, I'm a lifetime natural with 20 years under the belt.
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Most people in my gym, your gym and every gym on the planet do not have the muscle/mind connection. So because of this, every workout protocol is ALMOST useless for these types of people.
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Well man, it's pretty common knowledge that da sauce creates an imbalance where the increase of the muscles strength is much greater than the tendons increase in strength, well at least that's what I've heard, and as I'm also a lifetime natural trainer I'm not saying this based upon my own experience, it's only based upon what I've heard. And that's a good point that you made about doing the negative portion too fast, but in my younger days (I'm 36, by the way) I used to compete in bench press contests, and a cornerstone of my training style was to perform the negative portion under great control. At a bp contest, you MUST pause the weight on your chest while waiting for the press signal from the head judge.
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Well man, it's pretty common knowledge that da sauce creates an imbalance where the increase of the muscles strength is much greater than the tendons increase in strength, well at least that's what I've heard, and as I'm also a lifetime natural trainer I'm not saying this based upon my own experience, it's only based upon what I've heard.
Yes, maybe that aspect could decrease the risk of injury, esp when a natural with only 1-2 years under the belt decides to go for a heavy cycle. Maybe GH15 or someone else can confirm this.
And that's a good point that you made about doing the negative portion too fast, but in my younger days (I'm 36, by the way) I used to compete in bench press contests, and a cornerstone of my training style was to perform the negative portion under great control. At a bp contest, you MUST pause the weight on your chest while waiting for the press signal from the head judge.
Yep I know as a spotter in a few gym contests. A important difference between a BP and a dip (I presume you did a free version) is that a dip requires more stabilisation and -when going really down- starts from a almost complete stretched triceps position.
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Whats really funny to me, is how posts and thought patterns get so twisted when you cant talk face to face lol.
From his origanal post he wants to gain over an inch on his arms and lose body fat.
Now hes changing his story lol. Settle for 16s, man thats only 1/4 inch more then you have now. These are your words not mine bro.
I do think you could possibly gain 1/4 of an inch and lose bodyfat, mabye, but itll be damn hard.
And you still dont know what pure negative training is training is lol ;)
If you can do one positive rep, your not working tru negatives.
If i missunderstand what type of traing your talking about i apolagize
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Allright man, but like I said, I don't buy this belief that one can lower 30 to 40 more percent weight than they can lift, I could NEVER do that, and I tried it many different times with different exercises, but maybe I'm just a pussy lol
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Allright man, but like I said, I don't buy this belief that one can lower 30 to 40 more percent weight than they can lift, I could NEVER do that, and I tried it many different times with different exercises, but maybe I'm just a pussy lol
You're not a pussy. Static strength is greater than negative and positive strength. You can hold a heavier weight than you can press up in a "positive" move. For the greater part and in the case of the majority of people out there, you can resist a heavier weight in a controlled fashion, i.e., a controlled negative bench press from a static hold off the rack to chest level, than you can press up (a "positive" movement) from the same position. It just is. I have done this in my training as well as witnessed others doing so.
The secret is, there's no secret. I said before that you should go and purchase or borrow the book "Dinosaur Training". It's excellent. Again, you are not a pussy, you're just looking for answers that you already know and by that I mean the secret (answer) is there are no secrets. You already know them.
Hard work, done in a brief fashion with relatively heavy weights. Train hard and infrequently. You will find out what works best for you.
Compound exercises that work major muscle groups should be a major part of your training. Negatives are supplemental and should be done accordingly. For example, if you are unable to do a pull up, then do negative chins at bodyweight or if you are able to, with extra weight. After a time, you will be able to do a pull up with your bodyweight and then two, three and more. It will work.
Good food and rest. If you overeat, you will get fat. It matters not if you overeat good food or junk food, too many calories will ultimately become fat. My best gains have come training hard every two through four days, but I gained too much bodyfat due to a relatively high calorie diet and had to trim down because I was unsatisfied with how I looked. My strength had increased as did my overall muscle size, but at my age looks are more important to me than strength.
No one ever said this was easy, but to be honest it is very simple. No secrets. Hard, infrequent workouts that tax major muscle groups, good food with the right amount of protein, carbs and fats as well as calories and rest. Supplements? I take an inexpensive multivitamin/mineral table and a calcium table once a day. That's it.
It's simple for a reason.
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Good post Reeves, but I'm sure you know that Arthur Jones claimed negative strength was 40% greater than positive strength, but once again that was complete and utter bullshit in my case, the best that I could do was maybe, maybe 15 to 20% higher than my postive strength. And yeah, HARD AND CONSISTANT WORK IS THE ANSWER. Something that is up for debate here is the question: Is "spot muscle gaining" possible? I believe that it is.
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if you got energy=motivation to train then train any damn way you want to. stress wether its negative or positive stress is still stress and stress=calorie stimulating=eat calories=then grow
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Some good info in this thread. I believe that even an overload of 105% of your one rep max, would be enough to elicit true negative training. Trying to go 140% more then your used to is suicide i m o lol. I think on a limited bassis this can be benifical.
As far as spot traing for growth, i do belive its 100% posible. Why do curls and such for arms if it wasnt?
I find people who follow the squat deadlift bench type of system, get stronger and a powerlifter look,"cough cough fat" looking.
I will tell you again. No matter what anyone tells me, or you, DIRECT STIMULATION OF A MUSCLE GROUP is absolutly necesary.
Now do i think thats the best way to train? Of course not.
Multi joint compound moves first, isolation moves next.
Im realy looking forward to seeing your progress man.
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Do you wanna have a contest with me mass234? Lets do a 6-week bodytranformation contest, with the members here being the judges. The winner will be the one who makes the greatest change/progress in 6 weeks time, are you up for it? And yeah, I will use only my sofa and dumbells ;D
Hell no! Calm down, man :D
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Allright bro ;D I need to find someone that I hate to put some "fuel in my fire" so dat I can use dat hatred/rage/anger to kind me even more energy and motivation. Maybe I should try DK once again ;D Falcon kinda fits da mold, but if he snapped out of his "funk" then I would be scared shitless! Talk about potential ;)
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Five pages of negative training debate. Seriously, if you're going to train at home just buy a weight set and a bench and train with reps and sets. For someone out of shape conventional training is the way to go, not trying to condense years of not training into a few months of hurting your joints. Your 36 years old , not a kid anymore. Use your head not some crazy dreams to get back into shape.
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Thanks for the goodwill mitchyboy ;) And as far as direct stimulation is concerned, I really do believe that it is required by the bis, but not so much for the tris. In my opinon close-grip benches (yeah, and maybe close-grip push-ups off the side of a sofa lol) and dips are all that is needed for completely developed triceps. But once again, my biceps are BY FAR my worst upper body part, so maybe dats why I believe in isolating da bicep, coz I'm kinda dreaming dat it is da answer for ma shit biceps ;D
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Point taken US MUSL, but I think dat dis "age stuff" is complete and utter bullshit when it comes to achieving a peak, contest condition, and I'm out to prove it ;D Also, I do some other exercises besides weighted push-ups and concentration curls. For example, Lunges, Wide-grip weighted Chins, DB Overhead Presses.
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If you have the abilaty to wide grips can you also do underhand chins?
Pull yourself up underhand, crimp your bis as hard as you can and slowly lower. Use your negatives here, mabye even hold a dumbell with you feet. With a chair get up and slowly lower yourself.
Talk about direct stimulation haha 8)
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I hear ya man, but the problem with close-grip under-hand chins is that they also work the upper back quite severely. Remember... I'm trying to "spot gain" in only my arms ;D
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Hahahaha. I been trying to figure out how to "spot gain" in my dick. :D
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Ask Sly Stallone ;) Word has it dat he was in a porno where he was pumping iron with his cock, although I don't know if he was able to "spot gain" with this particular technique ;D
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Point taken US MUSL, but I think dat dis "age stuff" is complete and utter bullshit when it comes to achieving a peak, contest condition, and I'm out to prove it .
Yes, you can still get in peak shape at 36, shouldn't be a problem. Just watch the stress you put on your tendons with this crazy negative rep state of mind. The older you get the harder it is for irritated tendons to heal.