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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: MindSpin on February 14, 2011, 02:25:13 PM
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If I were Fedor/M-1, here's what I would do:
1 - ask for the loser of Overeem vs Werdum. If he can beat Overeem, that immediately puts him back in the top 5. If he beats Werdum, he avenges a loss and also gets put back in the top 5-10.
2 - He should then ask for the winner of the tournament, which I think will be Barnett of Alistar. If he can can through this, he should finish his contract with StrikeForce by beating a few more cans.
3 - Do a 3 fight deal with the UFC where he fights one can (Congo), one contender (JDS or Carwin) and whomever the title holder is.
That's about 6-7 fights, which would take 2-3 years. If he can do that, he will have truly earned the title of the greatest ever.
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If I were Fedor/M-1, here's what I would do:
1 - ask for the loser of Overeem vs Werdum. If he can beat Overeem, that immediately puts him back in the top 5. If he beats Werdum, he avenges a loss and also gets put back in the top 5-10.
2 - He should then ask for the winner of the tournament, which I think will be Barnett of Alistar. If he can can through this, he should finish his contract with StrikeForce by beating a few more cans.
3 - Do a 3 fight deal with the UFC where he fights one can (Congo), one contender (JDS or Carwin) and whomever the title holder is.
That's about 6-7 fights, which would take 2-3 years. If he can do that, he will have truly earned the title of the greatest ever.
Fedor has to want to fight first before he can do anything. Fedor displayed zero explosiveness. Nothing like before. The weight differential meant nothing his brother is as big as bigfoot silva. I just saw a guy wanting to land a wicked counter and possibly GNP to victory.
The way he was taken down by a dude that size and he just stand there in a trance was insane. The guy wants to shut it down imo and M-1 is holding him hostage.
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Fedor has to want to fight first before he can do anything. Fedor displayed zero explosiveness. Nothing like before. The weight differential meant nothing his brother is as big as bigfoot silva. I just saw a guy wanting to land a wicked counter and possibly GNP to victory.
The way he was taken down by a dude that size and he just stand there in a trance was insane. The guy wants to shut it down imo and M-1 is holding him hostage.
M-1 ruined Fedor.
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M-1 ruined Fedor.
absolutely...
if he signed with the UFC and got beat, I'd give him a lot more credit than I'm willing to give him right now if he calls it quits..
IMO he can still save some face if he fights on from this point, but to just drop out now would absolutely kill his reputation and legacy
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If I were Fedor/M-1, here's what I would do:
1 - ask for the loser of Overeem vs Werdum. If he can beat Overeem, that immediately puts him back in the top 5. If he beats Werdum, he avenges a loss and also gets put back in the top 5-10.
2 - He should then ask for the winner of the tournament, which I think will be Barnett of Alistar. If he can can through this, he should finish his contract with StrikeForce by beating a few more cans.
3 - Do a 3 fight deal with the UFC where he fights one can (Congo), one contender (JDS or Carwin) and whomever the title holder is.
That's about 6-7 fights, which would take 2-3 years. If he can do that, he will have truly earned the title of the greatest ever.
Fedor will not redeem himself. The heavyweights of today are too big for him. The heavyweight ranks are full of 260+ lbs monsters who are lean at that weight. The Fedor of 2004 could still find a way to prevail against these huge odds, and even the Fedor in 2004 would lose several fights to these guys, but Fedor of 2011 is too old and past his prime to defeat these monsters. If he keeps fighting, I can see him losing pretty much every fight from now on except against the smaller heavyweights or very inexperienced large heavies. Having physics fight against you is a bitch. That is why the existence of weight classes.
Sakuraba was at one point the best pound-for-pound fighter in the World, and yet he got demolished and destroyed by much less skilled heavyweights who outweighted him by more than 50 lbs because the Japs didn't care about weight classes. He was better technically than they were in every way, and yet they demolished him with nothing but superior power and reach.
Having said this, Fedor is still the best heavyweight in the World pound-for-pound. What I mean by this is that if all heavyweights dropped to his weight, he would destroy all of them. Silva was 285 lbs in the cage and yet Fedor outstriked him in the first round and won the round. In the second round, Fedor got a beating but still was completely conscious at the end of the round. If Fedor and Silva were the same weight, or even if Silva had "only" 20 lbs on Fedor, the latter would have destroyed him.
What pisses me off about you, MindSpin, is that you don't give Fedor any credit. He fought a guy who outweighted him by 55 lbs, he won the first round and he lost because the doctor stopped the fight and not because he was KOd or submitted. That is very impressive, and yet you claim he was "exposed". Do you think GSP would be able to win any round against a lesser heavyweight like Check? He would get destroyed. Fedor is truly the best pound-for-pound ever. He is the only one who can hold his own against guys who outweight him by three weight classes.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Fedor will not redeem himself. The heavyweights of today are too big for him. The heavyweight ranks are full of 260+ lbs monsters who are lean at that weight. The Fedor of 2004 could still find a way to prevail against these huge odds, and even the Fedor in 2004 would lose several fights to these guys, but Fedor of 2011 is too old and past his prime to defeat these monsters. If he keeps fighting, I can see him losing pretty much every fight from now on except against the smaller heavyweights or very inexperienced large heavies. Having physics fight against you is a bitch. That is why the existence of weight classes.
Sakuraba was at one point the best pound-for-pound fighter in the World, and yet he got demolished and destroyed by much less skilled heavyweights who outweighted him by more than 50 lbs because the Japs didn't care about weight classes. He was better technically than they were in every way, and yet they demolished him with nothing but superior power and reach.
Having said this, Fedor is still the best heavyweight in the World pound-for-pound. What I mean by this is that if all heavyweights dropped to his weight, he would destroy all of them. Silva was 285 lbs in the cage and yet Fedor outstriked him in the first round and won the round. In the second round, Fedor got a beating but still was completely conscious at the end of the round. If Fedor and Silva were the same weight, or even if Silva had "only" 20 lbs on Fedor, the latter would have destroyed him.
What pisses me off about you, MindSpin, is that you don't give Fedor any credit. He fought a guy who outweighted him by 55 lbs, he won the first round and he lost because the doctor stopped the fight and not because he was KOd or submitted. That is very impressive, and yet you claim he was "exposed". Do you think GSP would be able to win any round against a lesser heavyweight like Check? He would get destroyed. Fedor is truly the best pound-for-pound ever. He is the only one who can hold his own against guys who outweight him by three weight classes.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I'm going to disagree on the size theory when it comes to fedor. A lot has been mentioned of this guy silva being big and possibly outweighing him by 50, but fedor has a brother he spars and trains with that is way bigger than silva. Alex is 6'6 280 on a light day probably...I get he's old but, he knows his way around bigger guys..
..I get the whole good big man beats a good small man logic, but silva is not dynamic as a big man at all. Fedor should have dispatched of him, sprawled , turned silva and let his big ass fall, stand over him and hammer fisted that gigantic head then pulled an arm bar to victory vintage fedor style (which he very well may have done in the third....we'll never know)
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For $14.99 he can get a head start on that road back to the top!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Yl8NwTJrL._SS500_.jpg)
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he already has the title of greatest ever
who is better?
i'm waiting ::)
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he already has the title of greatest ever
who is better?
i'm waiting ::)
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Fedor is so far removed from the #1 HW ranking currently. If he ever wants it back, he will have to earn it.
That's all I care about.
Justice was served for sure!
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who is the best ever?
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who is the best ever?
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Saying you're the best heavyweight ever is not saying much. Until recently, heavyweight MMA fighters have primarily been oversized, unskilled and un-athletic. Now that we're finally getting some real talent in MMA heavies, being ranked #1 actually means something.
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Saying you're the best heavyweight ever is not saying much. Until recently, heavyweight MMA fighters have primarily been oversized, unskilled and un-athletic. Now that we're finally getting some real talent in MMA heavies, being ranked #1 actually means something.
so basically you're saying Fedor is the best ever
who in the heavyweight division has Fedor's deadly combination of stand up, submissions, wrestling, jui jitsu etc along with the outstanding resume?
all i see are one trick pony's
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so basically you're saying Fedor is the best ever
who in the heavyweight division has Fedor's deadly combination of stand up, submissions, wrestling, jui jitsu etc along with the outstanding resume?
all i see are one trick pony's
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Earl, you're a smart guy. I'm having a hard time believing that you're not just trolling on this issue. It is more clear than ever, that most of Fedor's wins were against crummy opposition. With all the fight fixing that went on in Pride, the few high caliber opponents he did face where very questionable wins. Even at that, it was years ago.
I would put guys like Barnette, Caine, Couture, Overeem, etc. above Fedor. It's true that their records have more blemishes, but they all fought better opposition.
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so basically you're saying Fedor is the best ever
who in the heavyweight division has Fedor's deadly combination of stand up, submissions, wrestling, jui jitsu etc along with the outstanding resume?
all i see are one trick pony's
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Well for starters at looks like Silva is better in these areas. He almost submitted Fedor several times, beat him in stand-up and GnP. Took him down too.
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Earl, you're a smart guy. I'm having a hard time believing that you're not just trolling on this issue. It is more clear than ever, that most of Fedor's wins were against crummy opposition. With all the fight fixing that went on in Pride, the few high caliber opponents he did face where very questionable wins. Even at that, it was years ago.
I would put guys like Barnette, Caine, Couture, Overeem, etc. above Fedor. It's true that their records have more blemishes, but they all fought better opposition.
LOL. man you're crazy. For starters just who in the hell has overeem beat his ENTIRE MMA CAREER to even put him in any list? This fool used to get MURDERED in Pride.
He held his own in K-1 (he's lucky bahr hari didn't participate this year or he'd Ko'd reems a$$ again), but he got sh*t housed most of his mma career by the better fighters.
Barnett 0-3 vs cro cop at pride. cain....lol I'll give randy street cred for taking on all comers no matter the size.
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LOL. man you're crazy. For starters just who in the hell has overeem beat his ENTIRE MMA CAREER to even put him in any list? This fool used to get MURDERED in Pride.
He held his own in K-1 (he's lucky bahr hari didn't participate this year or he'd Ko'd reems a$$ again), but he got sh*t housed most of his mma career by the better fighters.
Barnett 0-3 vs cro cop at pride. cain....lol I'll give randy street cred for taking on all comers no matter the size.
Like I said, these guys all have plenty of blemishes, but at least they've fought and not ducked fights or wasted time with cans...
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Earl, you're a smart guy. I'm having a hard time believing that you're not just trolling on this issue. It is more clear than ever, that most of Fedor's wins were against crummy opposition. With all the fight fixing that went on in Pride, the few high caliber opponents he did face where very questionable wins. Even at that, it was years ago.
I would put guys like Barnette, Caine, Couture, Overeem, etc. above Fedor. It's true that their records have more blemishes, but they all fought better opposition.
hahaha and i'm trolling
barnett's biggest win was against an overrated randy (can't believe you actually mentioned him ::) and nog, who fedor beat twice
cain beats brock and how he's the best ever? are you serious? overeem ??? ???
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Well for starters at looks like Silva is better in these areas. He almost submitted Fedor several times, beat him in stand-up and GnP. Took him down too.
which silva?
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who are randy's biggest wins? chuck and tito?
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Like I said, these guys all have plenty of blemishes, but at least they've fought and not ducked fights or wasted time with cans...
The above quotation outlines precisely why this board is complete shit and nobody posts here with regularity. Barnett, Overeem, Cain Velasquez and Overeem over Fedor all time? Your mother must have been addicted to methadone and glue sniffing when she was pregnant with you.
Randy is somewhat debatable but only because he held titles in multiple weight classes. As a HW, its not even debatable; Fedor by a mile.
I've stayed out of the pointless Fedor debates on here over the past few days for the most part because its the same 2 morons and their gimmick accounts arguing with practically the entire website over what amounts to a moot point. He's retiring, he's past his prime and that's that. I normally wouldn't indulge the above quotation and its delusional author, but I just want to point out that such nonsensical commentary from MMA know nothings proves two obvious things; 1)Fedor owns your minds ( or in this case the two or three brain cells you have) and (2) the ambiguously gay duo leading the anti Fedor cheerleading squad is representative of MMA fans that know absolutely nothing about the sport or fighting in general. Please continue; your unhealthy obsession with all things Fedor only cements his legacy and makes your stupidity more apparent.
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which silva?
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Which Silva just destroyed Fedor in all areas this past weekend? Only one Silva fought this weekend.
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Which Silva just destroyed Fedor in all areas this past weekend? Only one Silva fought this weekend.
so you think trevor berbick had a better resume and was a better fighter than ali, since he beat him when he was past his prime?
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so you think trevor berbick had a better resume and was a better fighter than ali, since he beat him when he was past his prime?
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I think you have lost track of what we are discussing here. Some may consider Fedor a legend, GOAT, etc. I don't care about that.
Bigfoot demolished Fedor this past Saturday. Does it mean that Bigfoot is better....some could say that CURRENTLY Bigfoot is.
Does Bigfoot have a better resume, that is debatable and pointless really.
Got it?
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I think you have lost track of what we are discussing here. Some may consider Fedor a legend, GOAT, etc. I don't care about that.
Bigfoot demolished Fedor this past Saturday. Does it mean that Bigfoot is better....some could say that CURRENTLY Bigfoot is.
Does Bigfoot have a better resume, that is debatable and pointless really.
Got it?
it is not debateable, no heavyweight has a better resume which makes him the best fighter ever
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it is not debateable, no heavyweight has a better resume which makes him the best fighter ever
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This is not fact now, nor ever will be. You feel one way, many feel another way. Debatable.
He screwed many fans by preventing the fights that people wanted to see (signing with the UFC) while he was still relevant. He also declined Overeem TWICE.
This resulted in Fedor going out in embarrassing fashion against a 5-1 underdog. Karma is a bitch.
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This is not fact now, nor ever will be. You feel one way, many feel another way. Debatable.
He screwed many fans by preventing the fights that people wanted to see (signing with the UFC) while he was still relevant. He also declined Overeem TWICE.
This resulted in Fedor going out in embarrassing fashion against a 5-1 underdog. Karma is a bitch.
it is not debateable until you can name fighters with better resume
no trolling with naming randy and barnet ::)
ps fedor is the only thing you post about on getbig, could he own your mind anymore?
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Earl makes a good point - and I hate to agree with him. Even if Fedor is mediocre according to you, if no one else has a better resume, then he is the greatest heavyweight ever. This is simple logic. And if it means that he is mediocre, it only means that the UFC heavyweights are even worse.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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A record is not the best way to determine GOAT. Yes, Fedor has the best record. However, when we take a closer look, we find that it's filled with noname cans.
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A record is not the best way to determine GOAT. Yes, Fedor has the best record. However, when we take a closer look, we find that it's filled with noname cans.
We should have your mod buttons pulled on this quote alone. Any ounce of credibility went straight down the shitter when I dug up this little doozy of a statement.
Hahahaha...Roy Nelson is a top 5 heavyweight, that's a hoot!
Roy is no joke and a perfect example of how over developed muscle has NOTHING to do with the ability to kick someones ass. I think he's one of the top 5-6 heavyweights right now. He's a BJJ blackbelt (watch him own Mir at Grapplers Challenge on youtube) and has serious KO power.
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We should have your mod buttons pulled on this quote alone. Any ounce of credibility went straight down the shitter when I dug up this little doozy of a statement.
Hahahaha...Roy Nelson is a top 5 heavyweight, that's a hoot!
One of 3 or 4 statements in this thread alone that should result in his mod status being pulled. He contradicts himself constantly, and shows on a daily basis that he knows absolutely jack shit about MMA.
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LOL...the only reason mod status should be pulled, is of someone misuses the mod powers. Just because my opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean that I should get demoded.
It's really killing you guys....lol.
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Hahahaha...Roy Nelson is a top 5 heavyweight, that's a hoot!
if JDS gets Lesnar out of there fairly quick like I think he will,the fact that Nelson stood in there with him for 15 minutes is going to raise old boys stock a lot
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LOL...the only reason mod status should be pulled, is of someone misuses the mod powers. Just because my opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean that I should get demoded.
It's really killing you guys....lol.
You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. If your opinion was consistent, I wouldn't care very much about what you think. The fact that you're the mod of a board and are utterly clueless on the topics being discussed on that board is what agitates other people. Your "opinion" doesn't mean anything. It's like a nine year old who is still in 4th grade moderating an internet message board about Quantum Mechanics. His opinion doesn't really hold much weight.
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With all due respect, there is little to no "facts-based" discourse going on, on this board. 99% of it is purely opinion. When I have an opinion on something, I do base it on facts. Like the fact that 2/3 of Fedor's opponents can be categorized as "cans" i.e. they have less than 5 fights on their record, or they've lost more than they won. So, relying on Fedor's record to call him the GOAT, if flawed, and that is a fact. IMO, some of his wins were fixed. That is not a fact, but an opinion based on the fact that Pride had mob ties and it has been proven that some fights were fixed. It is also a fact that Fedor refused to fight any notable opponents in the last 5 years. From that fact, a deduce that he was afraid of loosing.
In summary, Fedor was an overhyped mediocre fighter.
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so start naming these fights that were fixed along with the fighters with more quality wins and less "cans"
arlovski had a top 3 ranking when fedor fought him, barnett was number 2 until his failed test, werdum and rodgers were in the top 10
what is your definition of a "notable opponent" if fighting top 10 fighters isn't notable? who is the can he fought recently other than hong man choi?
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if JDS gets Lesnar out of there fairly quick like I think he will,the fact that Nelson stood in there with him for 15 minutes is going to raise old boys stock a lot
Sure it will raise his stock a little but really the only thing it proves is that Big Country can take a beating just like Tex Cobb or George Chuvalo in the world of boxing.
While that is certainly respectable it does not translate to being one of the top Heavyweights out there.
Regardless, I can't see Nelson giving Mir any troubles.
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Sure it will raise his stock a little but really the only thing it proves is that Big Country can take a beating just like Tex Cobb or George Chuvalo in the world of boxing.
While that is certainly respectable it does not translate to being one of the top Heavyweights out there.
Regardless, I can't see Nelson giving Mir any troubles.
he's a darkhorse for sure, but the division needs guys like him and mitrione to keep everyone else on their toes...
you can probably throw Schaub in there before long as well as far a being a capable "spoiler"..
people will argue that strikeforces heavyweights are on the same level as the UFC's ,but that's bullshit because strikeforce has no second tier heavys that can make things interesting on any given night
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A record is not the best way to determine GOAT. Yes, Fedor has the best record. However, when we take a closer look, we find that it's filled with noname cans.
He has the most wins against credible heavyweights. Shultz, Crocop, Randleman, Herring, Arona, Hunt, Nogueira, Babalu Sobral, Goodrich, Coleman, etc. With the exception of Sobral, who was a light-heavyweight, these were all top of the top heavyweights of their era. That is what makes Fedor the G.O.A.T. Even if Fedor had never fought a can, he would still have over a dozen wins over legitimate heavyweights, which is far more than what Cain or for that matter any other UFC heavyweight has. Velasquez has a total of 9 MMA fights, and half of those were against cans. Fedor has the best record as in most legitimate wins and not totasl number of wins.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Mindspin has some sick hatred of Fedor so he s not worth listening to. I wonder how many seconds MS would last against Fedor.
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Thats how much this 'mod' likes MMA.His sig pic is of Anthony Pettis doing his matrix kick.A guy he probably never heard of until he caught it on MTV ::)
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We should have your mod buttons pulled on this quote alone. Any ounce of credibility went straight down the shitter when I dug up this little doozy of a statement.
Hahahaha...Roy Nelson is a top 5 heavyweight, that's a hoot!
I stand by that quote. Roy Nelson is a handful for any heavy weight right now. And I can only think of 5-6 guys that could beat him for sure.