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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 21, 2011, 05:03:52 PM
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Pretty harsh, but maybe he needed it? Will be interesting to see what the child protective services folks do.
Tampa mom makes son wear sign announcing 1.22 GPA
By Associated Press
POSTED: 09:56 a.m. HST, Feb 21, 2011
TAMPA, Fla. — A Tampa mother is defending her decision to stick her teenage son on a street corner with a sign that says, among other things, "GPA 1.22 ... honk if I need education."
Ronda Holder says she and the boy's father have tried everything to get their 15-year-old to shape up academically. They've offered help, asked to see homework, grounded, lectured him and confiscated his cell phone. James Mond III's indifference at a school meeting last week was the final straw. The next day, Holder made the sign and made her son wear it for nearly four hours.
Experts criticized the move as humiliating and ineffective, and someone reported Holder to the Department of Children and Families.
Holder insists she's fighting for her child's education.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/116609813.html
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LOL my older brother used to skip class alot in high school and since my mom worked she got a friend of the family(mother of one of the kids i was in boy scouts with) to show up at school for the classes he frequently skipped and she would walk him to his next class...
I cant say much about the effectiveness of either punishment or tactic I think it really depends on the individual and how they internalize the punishment. My brother didnt really learn much from the lesson but I certainly did and made sure not to test my parents to much as I knew what they were capable of.
I can certainly understand their frustration with him and their resorting to unconventional actions to try to get the best out of their son for his own good though and I dont see this as going to far at all.
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Boohoo. Props to the mother for doing that.
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make that little slacker work manual labour 12 hours a day, might as well start now
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that child will become educated while standing on the street corner 4 hours a day
???
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Boohoo. Props to the mother for doing that.
exactly..Good for her
Why did someone or anyone call the dept for children. She wasn't beating him. She and the father were probably at wits end and trying to get through his noggin that he is fucking up..Yeesh
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exactly..Good for her
Why did someone or anyone call the dept for children. She wasn't beating him. She and the father were probably at wits end and trying to get through his noggin that he is fucking up..Yeesh
There are direct links between the amount of time a child is read to between the ages of 0-5, and that child's IQ.
It is possible (key word) that this child's parents were ignorant of that information and never got around to reading to him and assumed their son was getting enough education at school. This would put the child a couple of grade levels behind while still having an otherwise normal appearance. Then the child ends up slacking and the parents think it's because of the child's laziness.
I don't always agree with "laziness" being a cause of some problem, because any developmental psychologist or neuroscientist will tell you that the ability, or lack thereof, in a person is largely due to circumstances beyond their control. For example, the connection between the Mala gene (I cant remember the specific name of the gene right now but it does start with a M) and being prone to violence.
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that's fine Mr. Magoo but who's to say they did or didn't read to them.
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that's fine Mr. Magoo but who's to say they did or didn't read to them.
exactly
we don't know the causes of that child's inability to get a high GPA (it could be a number of things), so why should we judge
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exactly
we don't know the causes of that child's inability to get a high GPA (it could be a number of things), so why should we judge
who's judging..all I said was good for the mom
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who's judging..all I said was good for the mom
you assumed that because there was no physical abuse, that there was no abuse at all taking place. I disagree with that.
I also disagree with saying good for the mom.
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you assumed that because there was no physical abuse, that there was no abuse at all taking place. I disagree with that.
I also disagree with saying good for the mom.
and that's fine also, see it's good to express opinions
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There are direct links between the amount of time a child is read to between the ages of 0-5, and that child's IQ.
It is possible (key word) that this child's parents were ignorant of that information and never got around to reading to him and assumed their son was getting enough education at school. This would put the child a couple of grade levels behind while still having an otherwise normal appearance. Then the child ends up slacking and the parents think it's because of the child's laziness.
I don't always agree with "laziness" being a cause of some problem, because any developmental psychologist or neuroscientist will tell you that the ability, or lack thereof, in a person is largely due to circumstances beyond their control. For example, the connection between the Mala gene (I cant remember the specific name of the gene right now but it does start with a M) and being prone to violence.
thats all good and well and actually its a consensus that its a split between nature and nurture not that nurture provides more...
fact of the matter is everyone is going to be a some disadvantage in their lifetime...that doesnt mean we shouldnt apply ourselve the best we can. ESPECIALLY in something as important as school.
You cant control anything that other ppl do in regards to you...you can only control how you respond to what happens to you...
the kid is 15 and barring being mentally disabled he has the ability to achieve a greate gpa than he has now...s
shit if you just turn in everything on time you could get a better gpa than he has...
I agree we dont know the entire situation but given the facts as we know them, the parents arent doing anything wrong. Like I said I think how effective it will be depends on the kid himself and how he internalizes it but this is not abuse...
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I never said it was more nurture. I summed up both nature and nurture in the "circumstances beyond their control" phrase. Actually, neuroscientists are finding out that it has more to do with nature than was previously thought, so parental involvement is less effective than we assume.
I do agree that the child can probably do more, but even his motivation itself is largely due to circumstances he can't control. The ones that are motivated rarely need anyone telling them to be motivated; they just are. Without getting too biographical, I do pretty good at school and the school lifestyle and I'm getting two degrees and hopefully another minor. And that's with wasting my time on here. But its hard for me to say that I deserve full credit for that, because I don't think I do. It's also hard for me to stick up completely for the kid, but I don't know if that's based on fact or personal prejudice. I'll just say, situations such as these (determining the cause of low GPA) are very puzzling. I don't think we should be so quick to put the kid down.
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Will be interesting to see what the child protective services folks do.
HAHAHA. This is Florida. Don't you follow the news?
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I never said it was more nurture. I summed up both nature and nurture in the "circumstances beyond their control" phrase. Actually, neuroscientists are finding out that it has more to do with nature than was previously thought, so parental involvement is less effective than we assume.
I do agree that the child can probably do more, but even his motivation itself is largely due to circumstances he can't control. The ones that are motivated rarely need anyone telling them to be motivated; they just are. Without getting too biographical, I do pretty good at school and the school lifestyle and I'm getting two degrees and hopefully another minor. And that's with wasting my time on here. But its hard for me to say that I deserve full credit for that, because I don't think I do. It's also hard for me to stick up completely for the kid, but I don't know if that's based on fact or personal prejudice. I'll just say, situations such as these (determining the cause of low GPA) are very puzzling. I don't think we should be so quick to put the kid down.
I disagree, motivation isnt beyond his control its simply looking and concentrating on the things that would motivate him to get good grades as opposed to doing whatever it is he is doing besides studying etc..
your not placing enough of the onus for the situation on the 15 year old...you seem to think that the majority of his actions are out of his control which is false. I was a great student up until about my junior year in high school and then I started going out, dating, bull shitting etc. and my grades slipped I wasnt a horrible student but I wasnt a great student. Graduated went to college and started partying and drinking and again wasnt a horrible student but wasnt a great student either. Graduated with a BS in psych and couldnt find work that i liked with the crappy economy. I decided to go back to school for a degree in finance and finished in just over a year(should have been a year even but i had to delay my grad date b/c of pre reqs) with a 3.22 gpa while either working or interning...found a decent job and am studying for the gmats to hopefully get into an mba program in the fall...
if you looked at me during my junior year in high school(whichs is about where he is at) to my first degree and compared it to me now transcript wise I look like a totally different person.
but same person different student...nobody motivated me I MOTIVATED MYSELF
only person who has any control of what you yourself do is YOU...sooner ppl realize that the sooner they will be better off.
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I disagree, motivation isnt beyond his control its simply looking and concentrating on the things that would motivate him to get good grades as opposed to doing whatever it is he is doing besides studying etc..
your not placing enough of the onus for the situation on the 15 year old...you seem to think that the majority of his actions are out of his control which is false. I was a great student up until about my junior year in high school and then I started going out, dating, bull shitting etc. and my grades slipped I wasnt a horrible student but I wasnt a great student. Graduated went to college and started partying and drinking and again wasnt a horrible student but wasnt a great student either. Graduated with a BS in psych and couldnt find work that i liked with the crappy economy. I decided to go back to school for a degree in finance and finished in just over a year(should have been a year even but i had to delay my grad date b/c of pre reqs) with a 3.22 gpa while either working or interning...found a decent job and am studying for the gmats to hopefully get into an mba program in the fall...
if you looked at me during my junior year in high school(whichs is about where he is at) to my first degree and compared it to me now transcript wise I look like a totally different person.
but same person different student...nobody motivated me I MOTIVATED MYSELF
only person who has any control of what you yourself do is YOU...sooner ppl realize that the sooner they will be better off.
Perhaps I am going too far into the field of free will/determinism philosophy. But I fall on the side of Peter Strawson, or Thomas Nagel, or Tocqueville, in that I do not think individuals deserve full credit for who they are. I'll just leave this quote by Nietzsche.
"The causa sui is the best self-contradiction that has been conceived so far, it is a sort of rape and perversion of logic; but the extravagant pride of man has managed to entangle itself profoundly and frightfully with just this nonsense. The desire for "freedom of the will" in the superlative metaphysical sense, which still holds sway, unfortunately, in the minds of the half-educated; the desire to bear the entire and ultimate responsibility for one's actions oneself, and to absolve God, the world, ancestors, chance and society involves nothing less than to be precisely this causa sui and, with more than Muenchhausen's audacity, to pull oneself up into existence by the hair, out of the swamps of nothingness."
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Perhaps I am going too far into the field of free will/determinism philosophy. But I fall on the side of Peter Strawson, or Thomas Nagel, or Tocqueville, in that I do not think individuals deserve full credit for who they are. I'll just leave this quote by Nietzsche.
"The causa sui is the best self-contradiction that has been conceived so far, it is a sort of rape and perversion of logic; but the extravagant pride of man has managed to entangle itself profoundly and frightfully with just this nonsense. The desire for "freedom of the will" in the superlative metaphysical sense, which still holds sway, unfortunately, in the minds of the half-educated; the desire to bear the entire and ultimate responsibility for one's actions oneself, and to absolve God, the world, ancestors, chance and society involves nothing less than to be precisely this causa sui and, with more than Muenchhausen's audacity, to pull oneself up into existence by the hair, out of the swamps of nothingness."
Yes, perhaps you are. And perhaps you should slam your head into a brick wall until you're unconcious for quoting nietzsche in a desperate attempt to appear intelligent on the internet.
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Yes, perhaps you are. And perhaps you should slam your head into a brick wall until you're unconcious for quoting nietzsche in a desperate attempt to appear intelligent on the internet.
It wasn't a desperate attempt. I could have quoted Tocqueville or thomas nagel or peter strawson or bertrand russell or any determinists. That quote was used to show how there are many influences in a person's life beyond what they can control. Even the ability to pull oneself up by the bootstraps is due to social circumstances, luck, and their character. There has to be something in a person to even pull themselves up "out of the swamps of nothingness" which isn't due to anything they caused. For a person to be fully responsible for their actions, they need to be causa sui, and nobody is.
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HAHAHA. This is Florida. Don't you follow the news?
? Don't know what you're talking about.
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It wasn't a desperate attempt. I could have quoted Tocqueville or thomas nagel or peter strawson or bertrand russell or any determinists. That quote was used to show how there are many influences in a person's life beyond what they can control. Even the ability to pull oneself up by the bootstraps is due to social circumstances, luck, and their character. There has to be something in a person to even pull themselves up "out of the swamps of nothingness" which isn't due to anything they caused. For a person to be fully responsible for their actions, they need to be causa sui, and nobody is.
I was just reading one of the books that I'm on and I found a quote from Helen Keller's 1929 autobiography Midstream that elaborates my point a little. If anyone is assumed to have the ability to "pull their self up by the bootstrap", it is Helen Keller.
"I had once believed that we were all masters of our fate - that we could mould our lives into any form we pleased...I had overcome deafness and blindness sufficiently to be happy, and I supposed that anyone could come out victorious if he threw himself valiantly into life's struggle. But as I went more and more about the country I learned that I had spoken with assurance on a subject I knew little about. I forgot that I owed my success partly to the advantages of my birth and environment...Now, however, I learned that the power to rise in the world is not within the reach of everyone."
I think this elaborates on how the notion of true individualism is partly an illusion. I think this can be applied to this thread in the way of determining just how blameworthy the child is for not pulling himself up, buckling down, and getting a high GPA.
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? Don't know what you're talking about.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/17/20110217florida-toxic-truck-twins-tragedy.html
Then do a quick search on :
Rueben Alvin Manning III
Jaquez Mason (Valerie Kennedy, Annie Williams)
Kaylee Anderson (sp?)
Candice Clark
etc.. these are right off the top of my head and I might have spelled one or two names wrong
FL's DFC is notorious for not following through with investigations or actions. They are completely incompetent and a bunch of know-nothings lazy asses sitting around blaming other people for their own failures when something happens to a child that should already be in their ward and care.
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I was just reading one of the books that I'm on and I found a quote from Helen Keller's 1929 autobiography Midstream that elaborates my point a little. If anyone is assumed to have the ability to "pull their self up by the bootstrap", it is Helen Keller.
"I had once believed that we were all masters of our fate - that we could mould our lives into any form we pleased...I had overcome deafness and blindness sufficiently to be happy, and I supposed that anyone could come out victorious if he threw himself valiantly into life's struggle. But as I went more and more about the country I learned that I had spoken with assurance on a subject I knew little about. I forgot that I owed my success partly to the advantages of my birth and environment...Now, however, I learned that the power to rise in the world is not within the reach of everyone."
I think this elaborates on how the notion of true individualism is partly an illusion. I think this can be applied to this thread in the way of determining just how blameworthy the child is for not pulling himself up, buckling down, and getting a high GPA.
Helen Keller was one of the GREATEST Socialists to exist. She was highly intelligent.
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/17/20110217florida-toxic-truck-twins-tragedy.html
Then do a quick search on :
Rueben Alvin Manning III
Jaquez Mason (Valerie Kennedy, Annie Williams)
Kaylee Anderson (sp?)
Candice Clark
etc.. these are right off the top of my head and I might have spelled one or two names wrong
FL's DFC is notorious for not following through with investigations or actions. They are completely incompetent and a bunch of know-nothings lazy asses sitting around blaming other people for their own failures when something happens to a child that should already be in their ward and care.
That's terrible. We've had the same problems here. Sometimes our people take the goal of "reunification" too far. More than once they have failed to permanently remove a kid from an abusive environment that resulted in further injury or death. Sad.
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They can make the kid stand on the street corner and hold up sign humiliating him for 4 hours but can get him to study and do his homework?
Sound more like a failure in parenting to me.
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They can make the kid stand on the street corner and hold up sign humiliating him for 4 hours but can get him to study and do his homework?
Sound more like a failure in parenting to me.
some kids need to learn the hard way..I think it's more for his embarrasement
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some kids need to learn the hard way..I think it's more for his embarrasement
Yeah maybe so, but I still think it is a failure of parenting. I understand that I do not know the kid or how the parents have tried to motivate him. But honestly, at 15, making the kid humiliate himself like that will Affect him negatively.
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Yeah maybe so, but I still think it is a failure of parenting. I understand that I do not know the kid or how the parents have tried to motivate him. But honestly, at 15, making the kid humiliate himself like that will Affect him negatively.
Perhaps it could. But like you said we don't know the kid nor the parents per se. Perhaps he thinks he knows it all and think the parents are idiots for telling him to take school seriously (not sure if that's the case just taking a stab at it)
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Perhaps it could. But like you said we don't know the kid nor the parents per se. Perhaps he thinks he knows it all and think the parents are idiots for telling him to take school seriously (not sure if that's the case just taking a stab at it)
Yeah, that sounds typical.... My son is in his last few months of teen aging so I know first hand about that. But still what I Don't understand is how they can get a 15 year old boy and "make" him stand on the street corner but can't get him to study. That just doesn't mAke any sense to me.
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That's terrible. We've had the same problems here. Sometimes our people take the goal of "reunification" too far. More than once they have failed to permanently remove a kid from an abusive environment that resulted in further injury or death. Sad.
There was one kid down here that went missing for 3 years and the DFC never even bothered to go to the home to check. For 3 years they sat around and did nothing to try to contact or make a recovery of this kid when the mother and grandmother both couldn't produce the child and instead were constantly saying the child was at the other's home. It was big news for a while and then died down.
Until about six months later someone exposed the fact that the case worker that failed to do her job and instead falsified field reports the entire 3 years to make it look like she was out there trying to make contact was still employed there.
Half of the people that work for DFACs can't take care of their own kids and yet they are entrusted to make life changing decisions for other people's kids.
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Yeah, that sounds typical.... My son is in his last few months of teen aging so I know first hand about that. But still what I Don't understand is how they can get a 15 year old boy and "make" him stand on the street corner but can't get him to study. That just doesn't mAke any sense to me.
hey I was one of those too many many moons ago. Thought my folks were idiots. By the time I was 20 I thought, oh crap they arn't stupid after all
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some kids need to learn the hard way..I think it's more for his embarrasement
I agree...
Yeah maybe so, but I still think it is a failure of parenting. I understand that I do not know the kid or how the parents have tried to motivate him. But honestly, at 15, making the kid humiliate himself like that will Affect him negatively.
Again it depends on the child themself...My first punishment that I can remember was I took candy from a Kroger honestly I didnt really even know it was bad per se it was the kind you just stuck in a bag and took to the register that ppl took "free samples" from but my mom noticed i was eating some as we got in the car and made me march back into the Kroger return the candy and apologize to the manager.
I remember being extremely embarrassed at the time and it made a huge impression on me...
it really depends on the child and how the respond to certain stimuli imho...
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What if your mom made you stand on the street corner for 4 hours holding up a sign that said I am a bad kid and a thief?
Just thinking...
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What if your mom made you stand on the street corner for 4 hours holding up a sign that said I am a bad kid and a thief?
Just thinking...
again to me it would have made a big impression on me and I would have really thought to myself next time I did something that would get me in trouble "hmmm if they punished me like that last time, how are they going to punish me if i do this?"
but then again the two scenarios dont really relate as mine was a first offense and wasnt really a pattern and this kids parents seem to have tried many different approaches before resorting to this tactic.
on a slightly related note...LOL a judge here in Houston made a husband and a wife stand on a corner with a sign that said something about how they stole money every friday morning for about 3 or 4 hours for like 2 months as part of their punishment.
I think punishments effectiveness depends on the individual being punished.
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What if your mom made you stand on the street corner for 4 hours holding up a sign that said I am a bad kid and a thief?
Just thinking...
Better than prison
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What if your mom made you stand on the street corner for 4 hours holding up a sign that said I am a bad kid and a thief?
Just thinking...
haha, compared to the punishments I received growing up that would have been a vacation.....LOL
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haha, compared to the punishments I received growing up that would have been a vacation.....LOL
a flipping men..
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a flipping men..
My parents were VERY old-school.....I can remember watching TV with my brothers and some show was talking about being "grounded" like it was the end of the world.....we just laughed as we had no idea what that even was.
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My parents were VERY old-school.....I can remember watching TV with my brothers and some show was talking about being "grounded" like it was the end of the world.....we just laughed as we had no idea what that even was.
My father was the strictest mofo ever. Ya know, master chief thing, because his parents, gramps an officer type stuff. LMAO grounded, he did that once. Rest oh man. As I got into my teens, I knew consequences of stupid actions so there for I tried not to do stupid shit, although a few times I did. Mom, pretty much walk over
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It all really depends on the kid. With some kids, all you need to do is talk to them. With others, you have to use some pretty harsh measures. I'd never have my kid hold a sign, but perhaps that was what this kid needed. We'd really need to see what has happened leading up to that punishment to have a more informed opinion.
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Bad parenting. Im not saying that this is being too hard on the kid. Far from it. I dont feel sorry for him at all and no one should feel sorry for him. But it shouldnt even have to come down to this. When I went to high school, it was understood in my house that you just didnt perform this poorly in school. Im sorry, highschool is too easy to be getting a 1.22 GPA. When I was going to school this wasnt even an option. You just didnt even consider it. THe kid is lucky this is about him being humilitaed and not about him being kicked out of the house, or about him getting yelled at in the face, or having his room ransacked and confiscated for drugs to try to find out what is keeping him from doing his homework.