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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on March 07, 2011, 05:16:51 AM
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Mccain thinks so. Says we should bomb airfields and shoot down planes - killing a whole lotta Libyans - which is an act of war upon a nation.
Should we enter a 3rd war? Is mccain serious, or just trying to gain some cred with that repub base he caters to sometime?
Don't wait for Rush to tell you how to feel on the issue - make your position known first. Do you support the US (alone, as other euro countries already said it's not an option) using military force to create a no-fly zone in Libya?
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Yes
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Kerry is calling for attacking them.
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Kerry is calling for attacking them.
He asked you not Kerry
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I'll say "NO".
We can't afford a war. Toss out the morals, and the best thing we can do it let Kadaffi win. Let him crush the rebels. Stability will return. Even if he's an evil dude, when he's in place, gas prices are lower. He falls, and the resulting chaos raises US gas prices.
Plus you run the risk of uniting he and his people. An outside force - specially from the US? imagine how fast the left/right factions in the US would unite if Chinese tanks started lining up on our border! Rush Limbaugh and Rachel maddow would be quite united in their dislike of greedy chinese ready to pilfer our resources and do some killing.
My vote is to stay the hell out of it. let the conflict happen, let them work it out, and buy oil from whoever wins. We can't afford another war.
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Funny how you leftists are all hawks now.
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Kerry is calling for attacking them.
What is YOUR position, 333386?
Do you feel we should enter a 3rd war because some guy in Libya is treating his people badly? Would you enlist and risk getting a leg blown off so that some rebel in libya (who probably hates you) doesn't have his rights violated by a dictator (who also hates you)?
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No invasion only some air force keeping Gaddafis air force on the ground
Should be easy considering
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33,
It's kinda cute that you posted repeatedly but won't take a position.
Are you waiting for Beck and Rush to talk about it, so you don't end up on the wrong side of the issue tomorrow when we discuss it? lol...
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33,
It's kinda cute that you posted repeatedly but won't take a position.
Are you waiting for Beck and Rush to talk about it, so you don't end up on the wrong side of the issue tomorrow when we discuss it? lol...
;D
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I think we should stay out of it.
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I think we should stay out of it.
good position. we are in agreement.
No fly zone is an act of war. China decides to shoot down our planes and blow up runways, yes, guess what, we're at war.
Let the bad guy control his bad people, and keep oil prices low. I'ts cold and cruel, but it's their national business to decide.
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Leftists argue that Repubs are hawks and that the USA shouldn't play world police. Leftists now want the USA to get militarily involved in a civil war. Can't write this stuff. Both sides blow and there are even reports of AQ fighting alongside the rebels. Might as well let them kill each other. It's not our job to make sure conflicts are fair and balanced.
I like how you point out that McCain wants to use military force while ignoring that Kerry does as well, 240. Cool spin!
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Qaddafi Warns France: If I Go Down, You Will Be Flooded With "Millions Of Blacks"
TBI ^ | 3-7-2011 | Joe Weisenthal
Qaddafi Warns France: If I Go Down, You Will Be Flooded With "Millions Of Blacks"
Joe Weisenthal
Mar. 7, 2011, 6:32 AM
Qaddafi's latest gambit: Convince the European public that they really want him to stick around, with all the stability that entails.
He spoke today to TV network France 24.
This quote (via Reuters) certainly stands out: "There are millions of blacks who could come to the Mediterranean to cross to France and Italy, and Libya plays a role in security in the Mediterranean."
Bear in mind that after the fall of Tunisia's Ben Ali, Italy has seen a wave of immigrants that continue today.
See more here at France 24.
[snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
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Leftists argue that Repubs are hawks and that the USA shouldn't play world police. Leftists now want the USA to get militarily involved in a civil war.
mccain is a LEFTIST?
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mccain is a LEFTIST?
Why did you omit Kerry calling for bombing runs?
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Why did you omit Kerry calling for bombing runs?
everyone knows kerry is a POS leftist d-bag who likes to stick his big nose in every country's affairs.
I didn't know he called for it. this morning i heard mccain's calls for it as i crapped and shaved, and so i decided to post that.
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everyone knows kerry is a POS leftist d-bag who likes to stick his big nose in every country's affairs.
I didn't know he called for it. this morning i heard mccain's calls for it as i crapped and shaved, and so i decided to post that.
::) ::)
That's because you CHOOSE to hear what you want to.
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::) ::)
That's because you CHOOSE to hear what you want to.
hey, when a man is crapping, there is a lot of noise going on.
why would 'which politician supports it' be any influence upon what YOU thought? Mccain is an expert in military and foreign relations. To disagree with him, regardless of party, is pretty big.
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At this point - is all about bailing Obama out of another WWTTFF blunder.
________________________ ________________________ ____________________
MICHAEL GOODWIN: Chaos In Libya Extends All the Way to the White House
By Michael Goodwin
Published March 07, 2011 | New York Post
The Libyan nutjob, Daffy Qaddafi, has big problems, but America is not among them. At least not until the Obama administration gets its act together to speak with one voice.
Continuing the mixed-message habit it showed in Egypt, the White House appears to be locked in an internal struggle about responding to the Arab uprisings. Details will make a good history class some day, but for now, the result is a mess.
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says a no-fly zone is on the table. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates promptly shoots it down, telling Congress there are logistical problems, and it would mean an attack on Libyan air-defense systems. President Obama then suggests no-fly remains an option. Got that?
It's tempting to hope the goal is to keep Qaddafi off guard, but that's too generous. As a friend says, always reach first for the obvious answer in a puzzle. If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
In this case, think incompetence, not clever strategy. Obama sent an ambassador to Egypt to tell Hosni Mubarak to begin a smooth exit transition. When the ambassador, Frank Wisner, later said something similar in public, the White House rebuked him. It seems Obama, without telling Wisner or Clinton, had changed the policy and wanted Mubarak out.
Power is centralized in Obama's office or, more accurately, in Obama. For all his talk about partnership, he's big on unilateral action, as long as he's the unit. Sources tell me that on matters ranging from the economy to the Mideast, Obama doesn't listen to anyone.
"He has his own worldview," one Dem said. Another said, "He's very stubborn."
Those are not compliments. And as Libya shows, neither are they virtues.
Michael Goodwin is a New York Post columnist and Fox News contributor. To continue reading his column on deficits and other topics, click here.
Print Close URL
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/07/libyan-chaos-dc
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whatever it is.. clearly obama did it and is soley to blame.
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::) ::)
That's because you CHOOSE to hear what you want to.
like obama calling swat from his cell right?
whats up with those Russian nuke secrets..
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whatever it is.. clearly obama did it and is soley to blame.
He is again making dicey situations far worse. Even his buddy Z. Briezienski said this morning Obama completey fucked this up.
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He is again making dicey situations far worse. Even his buddy Z. Briezienski said this morning Obama completey fucked this up.
oh i already know.. i stubbed my toe.. God Damn Obama
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oh i already know.. i stubbed my toe.. God Damn Obama
::) ::)
When Obama has lost even his buddy ZB on this, even you and 240 can't polish that turd any more.
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oh i already know.. i stubbed my toe.. God Damn Obama
lol!
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everyone knows kerry is a POS leftist d-bag who likes to stick his big nose in every country's affairs.
I didn't know he called for it. this morning i heard mccain's calls for it as i crapped and shaved, and so i decided to post that.
Nice try. Swing and a miss, though. You seem like you're advocating a military approach like your left-wing cohorts are. Why do you think we should get involved in a civil war? I didn't know the rules of war said that each side needs to be evenly matched now.
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Nice try. Swing and a miss, though.
Amazing isnt it?
Even ZB this morning said Obama Admn was basically incompetent, impotent, and making things worse with their dithering and daily FAIL Machine, yet 240, Option Fail, et al still kneepad endlessly.
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Amazing isnt it?
Even ZB this morning said Obama Admn was basically incompetent, impotent, and making things worse with their dithering and daily FAIL Machine, yet 240, Option Fail, et al still kneepad endlessly.
It's nauseating, to say the least. The British and Americans are, once again, shitting the bed on this Libya thing. SAS and MI6 guys getting captured within minutes of touching down on the ground. Fucking brilliant operational skills from the Brits on that one. ::)
Now you got all the people who hate the "imperialist policies" of the US crying that we should be helping the rebels in their great fight for "democracy".
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::) ::)
When Obama has lost even his buddy ZB on this, even you and 240 can't polish that turd any more.
whats up with those British Nukes.. any update.. i mean you did post a thread about it
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whats up with those British Nukes.. any update.. i mean you did post a thread about it
Send an email to the Daily Telegraph in the UK, they havent reported on it since.
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Send an email to the Daily Telegraph in the UK, they havent reported on it since.
But you started a thread.. I thought you for sure had conformation? Thats a serious offense..
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But you started a thread.. I thought you for sure had conformation? Thats a serious offense..
Because the MSM has NEVER gotten something wrong before. EVER! Right? Even that bastion of liberal idiocy, the New York Times, has been wrong before.
You know ABC reported the same thing as the Telegraph did, right?
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Because the MSM has NEVER gotten something wrong before. EVER! Right? Even that bastion of liberal idiocy, the New York Times, has been wrong before.
You know ABC reported the same thing as the Telegraph did, right?
Notice that neither paper has retracted the story either? If it was false, dont you think Obama admn would demand a retraction by all news outlets?
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Because the MSM has NEVER gotten something wrong before. EVER! Right? Even that bastion of liberal idiocy, the New York Times, has been wrong before.
You know ABC reported the same thing as the Telegraph did, right?
Dont pay that game with me.. this aint exactly stealing a stick of gum. This fool comes on the thread with his predetermined (which is retarded) obama filled hate agenda and posts shit that is extremely serious and then reacts to it with emotion as if it were truth. Im sorry maybe its my science background.. but this kind of "jumping the gun" on really serious shit soley because of your agenda is damaging and sickening to me..
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Dont pay that game with me.. this aint exactly stealing a stick of gum. This fool comes on the thread with his predetermined (which is retarded) obama filled hate agenda and posts shit that is extremely serious and then reacts to it with emotion as if it were truth. Im sorry maybe its my science background.. but this kind of "jumping the gun" on really serious shit soley because of your agenda is damaging and sickening to me..
How is it jumping the gun when two major new organizations reported it (and I'm sure others that I'm not aware of did as well)? It seems like you're only bothered by it because it was anti-Obama.
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Dont pay that game with me.. this aint exactly stealing a stick of gum. This fool comes on the thread with his predetermined (which is retarded) obama filled hate agenda and posts shit that is extremely serious and then reacts to it with emotion as if it were truth. Im sorry maybe its my science background.. but this kind of "jumping the gun" on really serious shit soley because of your agenda is damaging and sickening to me..
::) ::)
Jumping the gun by posting what major outlets are reporting, and still have not retracted?
Yeah whatever Mal - stop being a 95% er - its embarrassing beyond belief.
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::) ::)
Jumping the gun by posting what major outlets are reporting, and still have not retracted?
Yeah whatever Mal - stop being a 95% er - its embarrassing beyond belief.
Not retracting it says that it's probably more true than false. Just typical Obama regime spin.
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Not retracting it says that it's probably more true than false. Just typical Obama regime spin.
Retracting what, I thought the white house came out and said this was bullshit..
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Notice that neither paper has retracted the story either? If it was false, dont you think Obama admn would demand a retraction by all news outlets?
abc did not cover the part about giving information to the russians, they only covered the treaty part. so basicly you had a bunch of right wing hack sites covering the same news oulet
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Retracting what, I thought the white house came out and said this was bullshit..
Because the Obama regime hasn't lied once since taking office.
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Because the Obama regime hasn't lied once since taking office.
so in you eyes its a loose loose.. if obama says its bull shit you say "well they LIED before" of obama dosent say its bull shit you say "well he didnt deny it"
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???
I am 100% against the US getting involved in ANY way.
Let kadaffi crack skulls and keep oil prices low. Period. If the US was in a civil war, I doubt many libyans would be supporting risking their skins to save our asses.
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Because the Obama regime hasn't lied once since taking office.
Remmber how obama played all cute by 1/2 when the lockerbie bomber was freed? only later did the truth come out that obama backed that.
Same shit.
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Nice try. Swing and a miss, though. You seem like you're advocating a military approach like your left-wing cohorts are. Why do you think we should get involved in a civil war? I didn't know the rules of war said that each side needs to be evenly matched now.
My left-wing co-horts like mccain? lol
Again, I got on record very early - no US involvement.
I'll say "NO".
We can't afford a war. Toss out the morals, and the best thing we can do it let Kadaffi win. Let him crush the rebels. Stability will return. Even if he's an evil dude, when he's in place, gas prices are lower. He falls, and the resulting chaos raises US gas prices.
Plus you run the risk of uniting he and his people. An outside force - specially from the US? imagine how fast the left/right factions in the US would unite if Chinese tanks started lining up on our border! Rush Limbaugh and Rachel maddow would be quite united in their dislike of greedy chinese ready to pilfer our resources and do some killing.
My vote is to stay the hell out of it. let the conflict happen, let them work it out, and buy oil from whoever wins. We can't afford another war.
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My left-wing co-horts like mccain?
John Kerry is a Republican now? ???
You're also on record claiming that you're a libertarian despite all signs pointing to you being nothing of the sort.
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John Kerry is a Republican now? ???
It's a bipartisan effort to get the US involved in a 3rd war there.
You're also on the record claiming that you're a libertarian despite all signs pointing to you being nothing of the sort.
Wow... so my theme of "US stays out of foreign affairs and doesn't get involved with other countries' messes" runs contrary to Libertarian beliefs?
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It's a bipartisan effort to get the US involved in a 3rd war there.
Wow... so my theme of "US stays out of foreign affairs and doesn't get involved with other countries' messes" runs contrary to Libertarian beliefs?
Bipartisan effort? Don't you consider McCain a RINO? Again, swing and a miss. Obama, hero of the left, is already up to his nose in Libya, trying to get the Saudis to arm the rebels. Should Gaddafi maintain power now Obama has once again pissed US relations right down the drain.
But I'd say the other 99 of out of 100 posts that involve you sucking Obama's dick after he makes moves that no libertarian would approve of runs contrary to libertarian beliefs.
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Bipartisan effort? Don't you consider McCain a RINO? Again, swing and a miss. Obama, hero of the left, is already up to his nose in Libya, trying to get the Saudis to arm the rebels. Should Gaddafi maintain power now Obama has once again pissed US relations right down the drain.
But I'd say the other 99 of out of 100 posts that involve you sucking Obama's dick after he makes moves that no libertarian would approve of runs contrary to libertarian beliefs.
Did you read the Goodwin column?
Obama does not even listen to his own advisors.
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With NATO help, yes. The USA shouldn't involve itself without international help.
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With NATO help, yes. The USA shouldn't involve itself without international help.
Why?
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Why?
Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
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Bipartisan effort? Don't you consider McCain a RINO?
The man was selected by the members of the repub party to be their leader in 2008. So unless the majority of repubs are RINOs, is mccain really a RINO?
He's a moderate, sure. But I really don't get the politicial angle of Libya. Either you wanna get involved (as some prominent repubs and dems do), or you don't.
NATO and UN aren't gonig to do squat.
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Why? Because it is the right thing to do.
ha ha ha ha ha.
Oh Shit - are you serious?
Funny - you leftists and marxists never say a word about invading the congo or other areas of strife.
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Funny - you leftists and marxists never say a word about invading the congo or other areas of strife.
Gimme a break. Repubs begging for war in Iraq were okay with flying over Darfur to save far fewer lives in iraq.
It's about OIL, silly. Both parties. They only give a shit about getting involved and 'saving lives' when the nation has oil.
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ha ha ha ha ha.
Oh Shit - are you serious?
Funny - you leftists and marxists never say a word about invading the congo or other areas of strife.
Don't you love how they pick and choose which civil wars are worthy of our involvement? This is fucking hilarious. "The right thing to do". Talk about a joke.
The right thing to do is let the Libyans sort their own shit out. Coming from someone who hates Bush for invading Iraq. Quite hypocritical for you to now advocate military involvement in yet another country.
These far-lefties can't even keep their ideologies in line.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the far-left hate the perceived imperialist policies of America? Now they're actually advocating an imperialist approach to a fully functioning foreign country that hasn't done anything to us recently.
Iraq 2.0, but it's OK because removing Gaddafi furthers the far-left agenda.
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we get involved in civil wars when the countries have a resource we want. Rudy admitted iran only matters cause of their oil - they'd be a 'paper dragon' without it. Mccain admitted "never again will we have to go to war for oil".
The party in the white house knows they have to sell involvement in civil affairs, and the party out of power likes to fight it. Today in libya is just iraq reversed roles. President mccain would be selling airstrikes, and libs would be crying about it right now, if mccain had won.
it's just ignorant to paint this as "those lousy dems" when it's just how govt works. "someone" is going to step in and help one side win. If China does it, and they pinkmist kadaffi's ass... they get a leg up in controlling the place when the dust settles.
SOMEONE is gonna do it, might as well be us... that's the argument of whatever Prez is in charge.
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The Muslim world hates America for being in Iraq/Afghanistan and you're actually advocating us getting involved in another Muslim country? Even with reports that jihadists are fighting alongside the rebels? You're a stupid fuck.
Oil? In the grand scheme of things Libya's oil output isn't anything to write home about. And certainly not worth invading for.
It's hilarious how the anti-Iraq War brigade is now advocating a third invasion of a Muslim country. Just goes to show how full of shit the average person is.
Why is someone going to pink mist Gaddafi? Has he ever stopped oil shipments before? No, he hasn't. And he has the upper hand on these severely under-equipped rebels.
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ha ha ha ha ha.
Oh Shit - are you serious?
Funny - you leftists and marxists never say a word about invading the congo or other areas of strife.
Weird. I never saw a thread asking if we should ??? If i did, i would also say there is a need to get involved with international help. Just as there is a continuing need to Sudan for action. Unlike you 333 my life does not revolve around posting on getbig and i do not feel the need to post every, single thought i have about every single issue there is in the world.
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Weird. I never saw a thread asking if we should ??? If i did, i would also say there is a need to get involved with international help. Just as there is a continuing need to Sudan for action. Unlike you 333 my life does not revolve around posting on getbig and i do not feel the need to post every, single thought i have about every single issue there is in the world.
So why does Libya warrant international intervention? Enlighten me.
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you're actually advocating us getting involved in another Muslim country?
HUH?
The US should stay out of this place. I'll say it for a 4th time on this thread in case you missed it. We shuld let him "deal with it" and the media doesn't need to be there for it.
Oil prices wlil stabilize. it's that simple.
Now, I know I tend to play devil's advocate from time to time... but in this case, I'm not. no US $ or men or troops should be used to intervene. it's a soverign nation, and it's an uprising. Any leader in the world would crush an uprising. Let them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the far-left hate the perceived imperialist policies of America? Now they're actually advocating an imperialist approach to a fully functioning foreign country that hasn't done anything to us recently.
Iraq 2.0, but it's OK because removing Gaddafi furthers the far-left agenda.
I was never against removing Sadaam. I was against the timing of it, and against the way they went about going in. In Libya i see the situation as different for one key reason - the people. They are fighting against the despot, doing the dirty work. They just need a hand from the international community. No one can argue that the world would miss this guy. The key here is international involvement. An American led force is not a step forward, it must be NATO led and involve a clear exit strategy.
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So why does Libya warrant international intervention? Enlighten me.
Because like many others around the world, Libya is a country in need of help. If you are able to, you should give it. We as in US and the international community are able to, so we should help.
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The UN put Libya on the Human Rights council and then had the audacity to make them a rotating president of it. If they've got a problem they should handle it, without US help. Funny how the UN, who is still due to pass a resolution praising Libya's "human rights achievements", is burying the fact that they had these fucktards serving on a council dedicated to human rights.
I was never against removing Sadaam. I was against the timing of it, and against the way they went about going in. In Libya i see the situation as different for one key reason - the people. They are fighting against the despot, doing the dirty work. They just need a hand from the international community. No one can argue that the world would miss this guy. The key here is international involvement. An American led force is not a step forward, it must be NATO led and involve a clear exit strategy.
Why do they need a hand? It's a civil war. They tried to jump on the Arab revolution bandwagon and ran into a guy who wasn't going to back down. They should have thought about the fact that they would be out-gunned, out-manned and out-trained should it have devolved into fighting. They made their bed and now they should lie in it.
Because like many others around the world, Libya is a country in need of help. If you are able to, you should give it. We as in US and the international community are able to, so we should help.
You leftists argue that it's not our job to play world police so why should we start now? Fuck it, after this we can make it a right ol' party. We can swing through the Congo, clean up the Ivory Coast and hit Colombia and Mexico on our way home! Why stop at Libya? ::)
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I don't care much for the UN and they will never act.
They need a hand because democracy should be a right all humans have, they are fighting for that right and we should help.
I agree, why stop at Libya? We aren't the world police because we aren't the world. Notice i've repeated time and again this is not just the US but the international community that should help.
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Ha ha ha- should bama have invaded Iran in 2009?
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Is there any indication that democracy is what these people want? There are jihadists fighting alongside them. The head Libyan clerics are calling for Gaddafi's head so that they can establish an Islamic state.
You need to get your head out of the clouds. It's not our job to bring democracy to these people.
And for what it's worth, despite what the MSM is spinning, the rebels have been losing ground since Saturday. The amount of help they're going to need will probably require more than a no-fly zone and will entail boots on the ground. No, thanks.
Ha ha ha- should bama have invaded Iran in 2009?
Democracy is a basic human right, except in Iran's case. In that case, invading Iran would be doing the evil Zionist's bidding. Funny thing is that Iran secretly arrested two of the opposition leaders last week and there hasn't been a single word about it.
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I'm not opposed to an international invasion of Iran either. Why do you always generalize people as if they apply to all people of a specific group? Can you not think of people as individuals or are you yourself a walking stereo type therefore everyone else must be the same?
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Bush did it.
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I'm not opposed to an international invasion of Iran either. Why do you always generalize people as if they apply to all people of a specific group? Can you not think of people as individuals or are you yourself a walking stereo type therefore everyone else must be the same?
So you're a warmonger? Interesting.
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the new craze is obama did it, get with the times
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the new craze is obama did it, get with the times
Oh, so you now see how stupid the "blame Bush craze" was. Right?
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Oh, so you now see how stupid the "blame Bush craze" was. Right?
it was kinda hard to blame obama for ignoring that august memo which detailed the 911 attacks.
...cause he was still living in kenya at the time.
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So you're a warmonger? Interesting.
Interesting assumption you make. If i'm not opposed to war then i must be a warmonger. Once again you fail and make generalizations.
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it was kinda hard to blame obama for ignoring that august memo which detailed the 911 attacks....cause he was still living in kenya at the time.
Ah. Yes, the memo that gave no detailed information as to how the attack was going to happen and when it might happen. Al Qaeda was such a threat that Clinton during his entire presidency did absolutely nothing about them.
I will let this gentleman explain it to you. If you still don't understand, then you have a huge problem. Watch from 7:30 on. Watch how Ari destroys Chris from whom you learned to blame Bush for "ignoring the memo".
By your logic, I blame Obama for the current economic disaster. He did not see the coming recession, voted along with other Dems in support for the economic legislations signed by Bush in 2007 and he ignored the history of the government's failed policy of meddling in the economy.
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US Senator John Kerry wants allies to 'crater' airports
theaustralian.com ^ | March 8, 2011 | Brad Norington
THE Obama administration is under renewed pressure to impose a no-fly zone over Libya after a leading US senator disputed the Pentagon's view that it would require a military attack.
Senator John Kerry yesterday said the US should prepare for a no-fly zone, with its allies, to thwart attempts by Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to massacre large numbers of civilians.
As the White House retreated from the proposal, the senator said the US should consider "cratering" Libyan airports to disable Colonel Gaddafi's air force.
"The last thing we want to think about is any kind of military intervention, and I don't consider the no-fly zone stepping over that line," Senator Kerry said.
His opinion carries weight as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and an important Democratic ally of President Barack Obama.
He contradicted Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who condemned "loose talk" about a no-fly zone last week, saying it amounted to military intervention. "A no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defences," Dr Gates told a congressional committee hearing.
Speaking on CBS, Senator Kerry said: "That's actually not the only option for what one could do. One could crater the airports and the runways and leave them incapable of using them for a period of time."
The senator, a Vietnam War veteran and Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, was backed by senior Republican colleague John McCain.
(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.com.au ...
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But you started a thread.. I thought you for sure had conformation? Thats a serious offense..
How's that Palin report card thing working out for you? I mean, you posted it how many times? I thought for sure you had confirmation...
:D
Why so mad today?
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Its ok, Mal is still in Step 2 of the Kubler-Ross 5 Steps of Grief model when it comes to obama.
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Libya is of little strategic importance to the US so there is no reason to get involved. Like the left says, we're not world police.
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Libya is of little strategic importance to the US so there is no reason to get involved. Like the left says, we're not world police.
Libya is 8th in the world by oil reserve. They matter.
If this was darfur, nobody would give a shit about a few hundred/thousand people (involved in an uprising) getting killed.
This is an excuse to get invovled to gain influence. Oil. Period.
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Libya is 8th in the world by oil reserve. They matter.
If this was darfur, nobody would give a shit about a few hundred/thousand people (involved in an uprising) getting killed.
This is an excuse to get invovled to gain influence. Oil. Period.
They matter? Seems most of the experts in the military and civilian populace seem to think otherwise.
Contrary to your idiotic CTs, we don't steal oil. How'd Iraq work out for us, by the way? How many wells did we lose to the Chinese and other nations? That stealing oil thing worked out well. We invade, we destroy and then we can't be bothered to steal any oil. ::)
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I wish we would have stolen the damn oil until our war debt was paid off.
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Debka's also reporting that Qaddafi's claim that there are AQ and other jihadist fighters on the ground fighting alongside the rebels does seem credible. So expect Obama to arm them.
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I'm not opposed to an international invasion of Iran either. Why do you always generalize people as if they apply to all people of a specific group? Can you not think of people as individuals or are you yourself a walking stereo type therefore everyone else must be the same?
It is easier that way then he doesnt have to think so much
Like a kid you know
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All the more reason we should stay out of this shit.
No-fly zone in Libya? Wouldn't help, U.S. envoy says
As some U.S. lawmakers have pushed for the military tactic, President Obama is mum. But NATO ambassador Ivo Daalder says a no-fly zone wouldn't greatly affect the type of fighting going on in Libya. Meanwhile, the U.S. and its allies are under increasing pressure to take action in the country.
WASHINGTON — A senior U.S. envoy to NATO criticized proposals to have Western militaries suppress Libyan air attacks on rebels, saying a no-fly zone "isn't really going to impact what is happening there today" in the spreading war.
Even as U.S. officials insisted that such a zone remained an option, Ivo Daalder, the U.S. ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, told reporters that the number of Libyan air force flights had been decreasing since reaching a peak last week. He said it was hard to suppress helicopter attacks using the tactic.
"No-fly zones are more effective against fighters, but they really have a limited effect against … helicopters or the kind of ground operations that we've seen," he said. "Which is why a no-fly zone, even if it were to be established, isn't really going to impact what is happening there today."
Full story: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/sc-dc-obama-libya-20110307,0,5153201.story
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All the more reason we should stay out of this shit.
No-fly zone in Libya? Wouldn't help, U.S. envoy says
As some U.S. lawmakers have pushed for the military tactic, President Obama is mum. But NATO ambassador Ivo Daalder says a no-fly zone wouldn't greatly affect the type of fighting going on in Libya. Meanwhile, the U.S. and its allies are under increasing pressure to take action in the country.
WASHINGTON — A senior U.S. envoy to NATO criticized proposals to have Western militaries suppress Libyan air attacks on rebels, saying a no-fly zone "isn't really going to impact what is happening there today" in the spreading war.
Even as U.S. officials insisted that such a zone remained an option, Ivo Daalder, the U.S. ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, told reporters that the number of Libyan air force flights had been decreasing since reaching a peak last week. He said it was hard to suppress helicopter attacks using the tactic.
"No-fly zones are more effective against fighters, but they really have a limited effect against … helicopters or the kind of ground operations that we've seen," he said. "Which is why a no-fly zone, even if it were to be established, isn't really going to impact what is happening there today."
Full story: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/sc-dc-obama-libya-20110307,0,5153201.story
Debka, who is always on top of any military stuff in the Middle East long before the MSM is, says that the MSM has blown the air strikes completely out of proportion and they were really only used to scare the rebels as well as disorganize them. And secondly, that it's the helicopters doing the most damage.
But you're right. No good reason to get involved in a civil war.
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As an OIF veteran I say I would go into Libya, but only if the neo cons Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, and O'Reilly lead the charge on the frontlines instead of sitting back in the million dollar studios while young kids do all the fighting and dying for them. You should never go to war so carelessly, a no-fly zone is an act of war. Not to mention we cannot afford it.
Military action in Libya=worst decision since invading Iraq
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we get involved in civil wars when the countries have a resource we want. Rudy admitted iran only matters cause of their oil - they'd be a 'paper dragon' without it. Mccain admitted "never again will we have to go to war for oil".
The party in the white house knows they have to sell involvement in civil affairs, and the party out of power likes to fight it. Today in libya is just iraq reversed roles. President mccain would be selling airstrikes, and libs would be crying about it right now, if mccain had won.
it's just ignorant to paint this as "those lousy dems" when it's just how govt works. "someone" is going to step in and help one side win. If China does it, and they pinkmist kadaffi's ass... they get a leg up in controlling the place when the dust settles.
SOMEONE is gonna do it, might as well be us... that's the argument of whatever Prez is in charge.
This isn't true.
Clinton with NATO instituted a no fly zone in Serbia.
This would be no different.
Sounds like Malta will give the Brits Airspace and there is a Carrier in the vicinity.
Lack of will by Obama is stopping this from happening.
Mainly because this goes against his first speech in the middle east. Where he decided to capitulate and blame Western Society for the problems in the Middle East.
Weak then and weak now.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31102929/ns/politics-white_house/
More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims and a Cold War in which Muslim majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations. Moreover, the sweeping change brought by modernity and globalization led many Muslims to view the West as hostile to the traditions of Islam.
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I heard on tv last night something about Newt coming out in support of airstrikes now? is that true? I got all of 3 minutes of political tv before falling asleep
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U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made it clear imposing a no-fly zone is a matter for the United Nations and should not be a U.S.-led initiative.
The White House said, however, it believed a U.N. arms embargo on Libya contained the flexibility to allow the rebels to be armed if such a decision were made.
The US is in full capitulation mode.
Clinton didn't bow to the UN and GWB didn't how come Obama has to.
There will be no agreement in the UN which is fine with Obama since he won't have to confront the uprising.
For a country that once said that it would help democracies anywhere.
It now will prop up dictators in Regimes unfriendly to the US and then use the UN as cover.
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I believe obama is praying for an energy crisis to push cap & trade again.
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I think we should stay out of it.
You, me, and Obama are in agreement.
Leftists like Newt, pawlenty, mccain and kerry seem to think we should stick our noses into their affairs.
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Funny how you leftists are all hawks now.
33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?
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33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?
dont know but its been advocated by many on the left.
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33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?
Is Kerry a Republican? He was the first one to start calling for "cratering" the runways.
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Is Kerry a Republican? He was the first one to start calling for "cratering" the runways.
Are you implying Mccain, Pawlenty and Newt are following kerry's leadership?
Methinks it's not about left/right. Rather, warmongering vs common sense. Kadaffi will kill the rebels and oil will come back down $. Period.
My point is that you can't call this a "leftist" movement when the 2008 presidential GOP candidate and two of the top potentials for 2012 GOp are all screaming about the need to bomb libya.
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On Libya, Obama willing to let allies take the lead
The Washington Post ^ | Wednesday, March 9, 2011 | Scott Wilson
President Obama is content to let other nations publicly lead the search for solutions to the Libyan conflict, his advisers say, a stance that reflects the more humble tone he has sought to bring to U.S. foreign policy but one that also opens him to criticism that he is a weak leader.
The tactic is anathema to many conservatives and worries some liberal interventionists, who believe that only overt American authority can assemble an effective opposition to brutal authoritarian governments such as that of Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi.
Although Obama sees advantages in keeping Washington in the background, especially in a region where the United States is held in such low regard, he has exposed himself to Republican charges that he is absent at a time of crisis. Conservatives say his one-of-the-team approach could also signal a decline in American fortitude after nearly a decade of war.
Since the uprising began, Obama has devoted just one set of public remarks solely to the situation in Libya, where fighting has reached a harsh stalemate. European nations have taken the lead in drafting a no-fly zone resolution, and Obama has yet to say whether he favors one. He followed France in calling for Gaddafi's ouster.
At a Wednesday meeting of Obama's senior national security officials, little support emerged for the immediate imposition of a no-fly zone, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations.
Jamming Libyan government communications and deploying U.S. naval assets to help deliver humanitarian aid were among the most favored near-term options, the official said, adding that "at any time facts on the ground could change, but the intelligence assessment now dispels the idea that a no-fly zone is the key here."
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
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Are you implying Mccain, Pawlenty and Newt are following kerry's leadership?
Methinks it's not about left/right. Rather, warmongering vs common sense. Kadaffi will kill the rebels and oil will come back down $. Period.
My point is that you can't call this a "leftist" movement when the 2008 presidential GOP candidate and two of the top potentials for 2012 GOp are all screaming about the need to bomb libya.
Oil will come back down? Oil's been rising for months now, troll. ::)
I only called it a leftist movement after you decided to completely omit Kerry's name from any post you made about it in your attempt to throw it on the right, even after Kerry was the first to start calling for a No Fly zone.
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Oil will come back down? Oil's been rising for months now, troll. ::)
???
how much has oil risen in the last 2 weeks?
Are you saying the spike in prices, in the last 2 weeks is unrelated to the 2 shut down libyan ports?
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???
how much has oil risen in the last 2 weeks?
Are you saying the spike in prices, in the last 2 weeks is unrelated to the 2 shut down libyan ports?
::)
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???
how much has oil risen in the last 2 weeks?
Are you saying the spike in prices, in the last 2 weeks is unrelated to the 2 shut down libyan ports?
Has oil been rising for just 2 weeks? Here I was under the assumption that I've been paying over $3.50/gal for much longer than that.
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Has oil been rising for just 2 weeks? Here I was under the assumption that I've been paying over $3.50/gal for much longer than that.
Most people agree that turmoil in countries that produce oil lead to higher prices.
Egypt didn't help. libya doesn't help.
if you really want to turn this thread into "are oil prices related to shut down oil ports in natoins of turmoil", you can do that.
But I think we all know that the "bomb libya" movement isn't some whiny leftist bullshit - and I'm betting the majory of voices get on board asap so they're not left out in the cold.
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Oil has been rising for a long time now due to a variety of misguided policies.
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Bloomberg and the others believe it's related. Is newt a leftist now?
Brent Crude for April Rises on Libya Concern; Merrill Lifts Price Forecast
Brent crude snapped a two-day decline on speculation that the conflict in Libya may persist and disrupt oil supplies to Europe.
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Most people agree that turmoil in countries that produce oil lead to higher prices.
Egypt didn't help. libya doesn't help.
if you really want to turn this thread into "are oil prices related to shut down oil ports in natoins of turmoil", you can do that.
But I think we all know that the "bomb libya" movement isn't some whiny leftist bullshit - and I'm betting the majory of voices get on board asap so they're not left out in the cold.
Gas prices have been rising for only a month now? ??? ::)
The calls for a No Fly zone were started by Kerry. You ignored that and tried to act like McCain and the Repubs were the ones who started calling for one and then acted like they were the ONLY ones calling for it. You are a spinster douche who was caught out on it.
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Bloomberg and the others believe it's related. Is newt a leftist now?
Brent Crude for April Rises on Libya Concern; Merrill Lifts Price Forecast
Brent crude snapped a two-day decline on speculation that the conflict in Libya may persist and disrupt oil supplies to Europe.
::)
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The calls for a No Fly zone were started by Kerry. You ignored that and tried to act like McCain and the Repubs were the ones who started calling for one and then acted like they were the ONLY ones calling for it. You are a spinster douche who was caught out on it.
I didn't hear about kerry. he was not mentioned.
Berserker - bottom line - do you feel the movement to bomb libya is a bipartisan effort? Or do you believe it is a Leftist movement, of which prominent repubs like Mccain, Newt, and T-Paw have all become aspostles?
Which is it?
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Who cares who suggested it first, you guys kneepad way to much, look at the suggestions and go with what you feel instead of sucking the cocks of whatever party you support.
Some of you guys support your party no matter what like a brain-washed islam follower.
You have a free will use it for christ sake
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Rick Santorum believes the US should jump into the mix in Libya now too.
Another conservative stalwart under the hypnotic powers of the LEFTISTS, right?
John Kerry is ballin'.... repubs are lining up to support his leftist agenda.
The same leftist agenda that Gates/Obama are against.
Pretty weird, huh?
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Too late. We already lost the chance and obamas father will retain power.
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Too late. We already lost the chance and obamas father will retain power.
Let's face it 33, it's not a "leftist" movement, is it?
Obama is against it. Gates is against it.
You have a shitload of republicans and military tool John kerry wanting us to bomb libya. You can't call that a leftist movement when the biggest leftist out there (Obama) is against it, and nearly half of the GOP potentials + the 2008 repub candidate are all supporting it.
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Bama wants gadafi in there.
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Bama wants gadafi in there.
nice subject change.
We need a sheen like #spinning tag to use here on getbig :)
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Why - obama was adamant about mubarak and doesn't say squat bout mumar, why is that?
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Why - obama was adamant about mubarak and doesn't say squat bout mumar, why is that?
youre changing the subject.
You said it was LEFTIST to want to drop bombs on their asses.
Why are newt, t-paw, santorum and other repubs all following the leftist agenda now, and why doesn't obama/gates support the leftist agenda?
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Bro - I have no clue why these pols do or don't do certain things.
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No.
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No.
You are in agreement with Obama and Gates on this issue.
However, Newt, T-Paw, Santorum, Mccain and Kerry all have their proverbial penii at attention for war, war war!
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The Obama Doctrine: Libya Is What A World Without U.S. Leadership Looks Like.
Wall St. J ^ | March 12, 2011
The Obama Doctrine Libya Is What A World Without U.S. Leadership Looks Like.
'This is the Obama conception of the U.S. role in the world—to work through multilateral organizations and bilateral relationships to make sure that the steps we are taking are amplified."
—White House National Security Council spokesman Ben Rhodes, March 10, 2011, as quoted in the Washington Post
"They bombed us with tanks, airplanes, missiles coming from every direction. . . . We need international support, at least a no-fly zone. Why is the world not supporting us?"
—Libyan rebel Mahmoud Abdel Hamid, March 10, 2011, as quoted in The Wall Street Journal
*** Whatever else one might say about President Obama's Libya policy, it has succeeded brilliantly in achieving its oft-stated goal of not leading the world. No one can any longer doubt the U.S. determination not to act before the Italians do, or until the Saudis approve, or without a U.N. resolution. This White House is forthright for followership.
That message also couldn't be clearer to Moammar Gadhafi and his sons, who are busy bombing and killing their way to victory against the Libyan opposition. As the U.S. defers to the world, the world can't decide what to do, and the vacuum is filled by a dictator and his hard men who have concluded that no one will stop them. "Hear it now. I have only two words for our brothers and sisters in the east: We're coming," said Gadhafi's son, Saif al-Islam, on Thursday.
Three weeks into the Libyan uprising, here are some of the live action highlights from what Mr. Obama likes to call "the international community":
• The United Nations Security Council has imposed an arms embargo, but with enough ambiguity that no one knows whether it applies only to Gadhafi or ..
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
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The Obama Doctrine: Libya Is What A World Without U.S. Leadership Looks Like.
Wall St. J ^ | March 12, 2011
The Obama Doctrine Libya Is What A World Without U.S. Leadership Looks Like.
'This is the Obama conception of the U.S. role in the world—to work through multilateral organizations and bilateral relationships to make sure that the steps we are taking are amplified."
—White House National Security Council spokesman Ben Rhodes, March 10, 2011, as quoted in the Washington Post
"They bombed us with tanks, airplanes, missiles coming from every direction. . . . We need international support, at least a no-fly zone. Why is the world not supporting us?"
—Libyan rebel Mahmoud Abdel Hamid, March 10, 2011, as quoted in The Wall Street Journal
*** Whatever else one might say about President Obama's Libya policy, it has succeeded brilliantly in achieving its oft-stated goal of not leading the world. No one can any longer doubt the U.S. determination not to act before the Italians do, or until the Saudis approve, or without a U.N. resolution. This White House is forthright for followership.
That message also couldn't be clearer to Moammar Gadhafi and his sons, who are busy bombing and killing their way to victory against the Libyan opposition. As the U.S. defers to the world, the world can't decide what to do, and the vacuum is filled by a dictator and his hard men who have concluded that no one will stop them. "Hear it now. I have only two words for our brothers and sisters in the east: We're coming," said Gadhafi's son, Saif al-Islam, on Thursday.
Three weeks into the Libyan uprising, here are some of the live action highlights from what Mr. Obama likes to call "the international community":
• The United Nations Security Council has imposed an arms embargo, but with enough ambiguity that no one knows whether it applies only to Gadhafi or ..
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how anyone with a brain said it would play out. These people, especially those in the Middle East, do not respond to kindness. They perceive it as weakness. 2+ years of Obama doing nothing but apologizing, criticizing and chastising the very country he represents and it has done nothing but put us in a worse position.
But, regardless of comes of this no-fly zone nonsense, the far-left has once again exposed themselves for the hypocrites they are. I expect them to never talk about the USA playing world police again when so many of their leaders in both politics and the MSM are calling for the US to militarily intervene in a civil war taking place in a sovereign country that is of no strategic value to us.
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But, regardless of comes of this no-fly zone nonsense, the far-left has once again exposed themselves for the hypocrites they are. I expect them to never talk about the USA playing world police again when so many of their leaders in both politics and the MSM are calling for the US to militarily intervene in a civil war taking place in a sovereign country that is of no strategic value to us.
I thought obama/gates were smart here - stay the hell out of it. The "left" seemed to want to stay out of it, aside from Kerry, who works for big war business more than he does congress, let's be honest.
It was the repubs whose collective penii were at attention for war here. newt, tPaw, santorum, and mccain.
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I thought obama/gates were smart here - stay the hell out of it. The "left" seemed to want to stay out of it, aside from Kerry, who works for big war business more than he does congress, let's be honest.
It was the repubs whose collective penii were at attention for war here. newt, tPaw, santorum, and mccain.
The left wanted to stay out of it? Ha! Keep trying to spin that, man. You've had no credibility on this topic since day one when you tried to insinuate that McCain was the one who started the drum beat.
But you keep on trying. Talk about the little engine that couldn't.
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The left wanted to stay out of it? Ha! Keep trying to spin that, man.
Obama and gates were against it. head of the dem party, and head of the military.
Just a few warmonger dems and a bunch of "me too" over-eager GOP wannabes, IMO.
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Kc baller wants to jump in.
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Obama and gates were against it. head of the dem party, and head of the military.
Just a few warmonger dems and a bunch of "me too" over-eager GOP wannabes, IMO.
(http://workitmom.com/bloggers/affordableluxuries/files/2008/12/little-engine-could-oversize.jpg)
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Ron Paul: Calls no-fly zone 'act of war'
So, to be clear: 33, 240, Obama, Gates, and Ron Paul don't want to bomb libya.
And Mccain, T-paw, kerry, Newt and Santorum want to drop some hardware.
And it's a leftist thing, right? Sounds to me more like a spend-happy warmongering position.
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Ron Paul: Calls no-fly zone 'act of war'
So, to be clear: 33, 240, Obama, Gates, and Ron Paul don't want to bomb libya.
And Mccain, T-paw, kerry, Newt and Santorum want to drop some hardware.
And it's a leftist thing, right? Sounds to me more like a spend-happy warmongering position.
It's cute how you only focus on the Republicans (RINOs, to boot) calling for it.
(http://blog.tools.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/the-little-engine-that-could.jpg)
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It's cute how you only focus on the Republicans calling for it.
Really? Cause I listed Kerry's name there. Please tell me other dems who wanna bomb libya, and I'll add them to the list.
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You slip in one name and instead continually focus on the Repubs. Even when Kerry was the first one to start beating the drum of war. It's your modus operandi, though, "libertarian".
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-9fPo-X6o8I/SbvV9fJ_JrI/AAAAAAAAAM0/n46SMhE2WyA/s400/little+engine.jpg)
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You slip in one name and instead continually focus on the Repubs. Even when Kerry was the first one to start beating the drum of war. It's your modus operandi, though, "libertarian".
Ron paul is best described as a libertarian, and he's against it.
I'll ask a second time - are there any more dems (besides Kerry, the war machine tool), that want the USA to pinkmist some libyans?