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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on March 13, 2011, 03:27:41 PM
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We must seek agreement on gun reforms
President Barack Obama Special To The Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Sunday, March 13, 2011 12:00 am
It's been more than two months since the tragedy in Tucson stunned the nation. It was a moment when we came together as one people to mourn and to pray for those we lost. And in the attack's turbulent wake, Americans by and large rightly refrained from finger-pointing, assigning blame or playing politics with other people's pain.
But one clear and terrible fact remains. A man our Army rejected as unfit for service; a man one of our colleges deemed too unstable for studies; a man apparently bent on violence, was able to walk into a store and buy a gun.
He used it to murder six people and wound 13 others. And if not for the heroism of bystanders and a brilliant surgical team, it would have been far worse.
But since that day, we have lost perhaps another 2,000 members of our American family to gun violence. Thousands more have been wounded. We lose the same number of young people to guns every day and a half as we did at Columbine, and every four days as we did at Virginia Tech.
Every single day, America is robbed of more futures. It has awful consequences for our society. And as a society, we have a responsibility to do everything we can to put a stop to it.
Now, like the majority of Americans, I believe that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to bear arms. And the courts have settled that as the law of the land. In this country, we have a strong tradition of gun ownership that's handed from generation to generation. Hunting and shooting are part of our national heritage. And, in fact, my administration has not curtailed the rights of gun owners - it has expanded them, including allowing people to carry their guns in national parks and wildlife refuges.
The fact is, almost all gun owners in America are highly responsible. They're our friends and neighbors. They buy their guns legally and use them safely, whether for hunting or target shooting, collection or protection.
And that's something that gun-safety advocates need to accept. Likewise, advocates for gun owners should accept the awful reality that gun violence affects Americans everywhere, whether on the streets of Chicago or at a supermarket in Tucson.
I know that every time we try to talk about guns, it can reinforce stark divides. People shout at one another, which makes it impossible to listen. We mire ourselves in stalemate, which makes it impossible to get to where we need to go as a country.
However, I believe that if common sense prevails, we can get beyond wedge issues and stale political debates to find a sensible, intelligent way to make the United States of America a safer, stronger place.
I'm willing to bet that responsible, law-abiding gun owners agree that we should be able to keep an irresponsible, law-breaking few - dangerous criminals and fugitives, for example - from getting their hands on a gun in the first place.
I'm willing to bet they don't think that using a gun and using common sense are incompatible ideas - that we should check someone's criminal record before he can check out at a gun seller; that an unbalanced man shouldn't be able to buy a gun so easily; that there's room for us to have reasonable laws that uphold liberty, ensure citizen safety and are fully compatible with a robust Second Amendment.
That's why our focus right now should be on sound and effective steps that will actually keep those irresponsible, law-breaking few from getting their hands on a gun in the first place.
• First, we should begin by enforcing laws that are already on the books. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is the filter that's supposed to stop the wrong people from getting their hands on a
gun. Bipartisan legislation four years ago was supposed to strengthen this system, but it hasn't been properly implemented. It relies on data supplied by states - but that data is often incomplete and inadequate. We
must do better.
• Second, we should in fact reward the states that provide the best data - and therefore do the most to protect our citizens.
• Third, we should make the system faster and nimbler. We should provide an instant, accurate, comprehensive and consistent system for background checks to sellers who want to do the right thing, and make sure that criminals can't escape it.
Porous background checks are bad for police officers, for law-abiding citizens and for the sellers themselves. If we're serious about keeping guns away from someone who's made up his mind to kill, then we can't allow a situation where a responsible seller denies him a weapon at one store, but he effortlessly buys the same gun someplace else.
Clearly, there's more we can do to prevent gun violence. But I want this to at least be the beginning of a new discussion on how we can keep America safe for all our people.
I know some aren't interested in participating. Some will say that anything short of the most sweeping anti-gun legislation is a capitulation to the gun lobby. Others will predictably cast any discussion as the opening salvo in a wild-eyed scheme to take away everybody's guns. And such hyperbole will become the fodder for overheated fundraising letters.
But I have more faith in the American people than that. Most gun-control advocates know that most gun owners are responsible citizens. Most gun owners know that the word "commonsense" isn't a code word for "confiscation." And none of us should be willing to remain passive in the face of violence or resigned to watching helplessly as another rampage unfolds on television.
As long as those whose lives are shattered by gun violence don't get to look away and move on, neither can we.
We owe the victims of the tragedy in Tucson and the countless unheralded tragedies each year nothing less than our best efforts - to seek consensus, to prevent future bloodshed, to forge a nation worthy of our children's futures.
Copyright 2011 Arizona Daily Star. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://azstarnet.com/article_011e7118-8951-5206-a878-39bfbc9dc89d.html
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What a dope.
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I'll have to reserve judgement. He only listed 3 things; enforce current laws, reward states, and improve the system. They seem reasonable goals to me unless I'm missing something.
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Its going nowhere w a gop house.
I also notice he was silent on tons of cops killed by ghetto thugs since the tucson murders.
Hhhhmmm - wonder why.
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Its going nowhere w a gop house.
I also notice he was silent on tons of cops killed by ghetto thugs since the tucson murders.
Hhhhmmm - wonder why.
why don't you tell us
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He doesn't want to offend the 95ers.
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what's a 95er ???
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Guess
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some stupid number you made up
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Sad thing is that it is a real number.
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I keep seeing the same stupid shit from DC, enforce the laws we already have blah blah blah. Most of the criminals don't go through legal channels to get guns! You are going to see a member of the local crips heading down to the local gander mountain to buy a gun. Same stupid shit different POTUS.
And why is he so interested now in enforcing existing laws? Doesn't seem to give a shit when it comes to border security and illegals.
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I keep seeing the same stupid shit from DC, enforce the laws we already have blah blah blah. Most of the criminals don't go through legal channels to get guns! You are going to see a member of the local crips heading down to the local gander mountain to buy a gun. Same stupid shit different POTUS.
And why is he so interested now in enforcing existing laws? Doesn't seem to give a shit when it comes to border security and illegals.
Hahaha, truer words have never been spoken. I find it amusing how he picks and chooses which laws to throw his weight behind.
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This op-ed is the perfect example of why i loathe Obama like no other potus in my lifetime.
He using a statistically improbably event and trying to exploit it while ignoring the glaring reality of who committs crime in this nation.
Did he mention the dozen or so cops killed since AZ from his peeps all over the nation? No.
Did he mention the brewing scandal at ATF over the ak's ? nope.
Did he mention the recidivist crime problem from a certain segment of the population who committs crimes far our of percentage from thair share of the population? nope.
In short - more complete bullshit from this garbage potus.
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Obama’s latest ‘gun control’ proposal will not close ‘Gunwalker loophole
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | March 14, 2011 | David Codrea
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“We must seek agreement on gun reforms,” a guest editorial in the Arizona Daily Star by President Barack Obama declares. Snip “I'm willing to bet,” he says, “that responsible, law-abiding gun owners agree that we should be able to keep an irresponsible, law-breaking few - dangerous criminals and fugitives, for example - from getting their hands on a gun in the first place.” If by that he means take people who have been adjudicated menaces to society and segregating them from those they would harm, not many would argue.
But that’s not what he means.
He wants to end private transfers.
He wants to require everyone in the country, regardless of state laws, to go through the federal system. As in mandate. As in force. As in "or else."
How about a situation where responsible sellers reported suspicious sales but were instructed by the administration’s enforcers to allow them to proceed anyway? Are we serious about that?
“Clearly, there's more we can do to prevent gun violence,” the president opines. “But I want this to at least be the beginning of a new discussion on how we can keep America safe for all our people.”
Before we begin a new discussion, Mr. President, how about we finish one that’s already underway?
What do you know about “Project Gunwalker,” when did you find out about it, and what direction have you given Attorney General Holder, DHS Secretary Napolitano and Secretary of State Clinton? Don’t you think--before considering anything new--we ought to first close the “Gunwalker loophole” by having complete and open hearings into all of the allegations to identify who in your administration did what, and how high up culpability goes?
You know, "to prevent gun violence"? Because "clearly, there's more we can do."
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
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private transfers pretty much make any background checks null and void.
It's been in place for years - and IMO, it's bullshit.
You can get out of prison, covered in jailhouse tats and still wearing your standard issue orange jumpsuit, pay $6 to get into the gun show, and pay $2000 cash and pick up an AK-47 and a handful of mags from any random dickhead private citizen hisEGALLY. No check needed, NO PAPERWORK.
Obama ain't even closing THAT lol...
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private transfers pretty much make any background checks null and void.
It's been in place for years - and IMO, it's bullshit.
You can get out of prison, covered in jailhouse tats and still wearing your standard issue orange jumpsuit, pay $6 to get into the gun show, and pay $2000 cash and pick up an AK-47 and a handful of mags from any random dickhead private citizen hisEGALLY. No check needed, NO PAPERWORK.
Obama ain't even closing THAT lol...
How many crimes are committed each year by ex-cons w AK' they bought at gun shows
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Obama Administration To Hold Gun Policy Meetings With Goal Of Policy Changes
The Huffington Post | March 14, 2011 | TheBigJ
Sam Stein Sam Stein HuffPost Reporting stein@huffingtonpost.com
Obama Administration To Hold Gun Policy Meetings With Goal Of Policy Changes Obama
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration has conducted informal discussions with groups from both ends of the gun-policy spectrum, including law enforcement and gun-rights organizations, and is set to hold formal meetings as early as this week in an effort to chart out a set of new firearms policies, administration officials say.
Spearheaded by the Department of Justice, the talks were described by one individual involved in the discussions as a “feeling-out process.” With more official meetings set to begin shortly, they provide the clearest indication to date that the White House is readying a response to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and 19 others at Tucson in early January.
“As the president said, we should focus on sound, effective steps that will keep guns out of the hands of the criminals, fugitives, people with serious mental illness, and others who have no business possessing a gun and who are prohibited by laws on the books from owning a gun,” Justice Department spokesman Matthew Miller said. “We will be meeting with stakeholders on all sides of the issue to discuss how we can find sensible, intelligent ways to make the country safer.”
The goal is to finalize a set of policy changes, including, perhaps, legislation that could pass through a Congress hostile to abridgments of Second Amendment rights. The last serious bite at the apple occurred following the shootings at Virginia Tech in April 2007.
In a Sunday op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star, President Barack Obama called for a three-pronged approach: enforcing the laws already on the books, including the National Instant Criminal Background Check System; pushing for greater state-to-state coordination; and expediting background checks and the release of relevant data.
“It was a promising sign that the president understands that 86 percent of the public, including around 80 percent of gun owners, think that a simple background check for every purchase includes next to zero burden for law-abiding citizens and can save countless live,” said Mark Glaze, the executive director of the coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG).
The contours laid out in the op-ed are similar to the plan currently being pushed by MAIG and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.). Schumer, who has also been in touch with DOJ officials, held a press conference with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg several weeks ago announcing plans to beef up the national background-check system, including eliminating a loophole that allows individuals to buy firearms at gun shows without submitting to a background check.
Though official talks have not yet begun, the Obama administration is expected to aim mostly at such low-hanging fruit, leaving issues like the legality of the high-capacity magazine -- which allows even pistols to fire more than 30 shots without reloading, and was used in the Tucson shootings in January -- to remain unaddressed for the time being. The principal debate, then, will likely center around the application of background-check standards to private dealers.
“They have been meeting with us and also with law enforcement groups and industry,” one gun-control advocate said of the administration. “This is what the White House does when they want to put a serious legislative apparatus together ... The game now becomes effectively demonstrating, in a way that is meaningful, what we know is the overwhelming support for universal background checks.”
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N.R.A. Declines to Meet With Obama on Gun Policy
New York Times ^ | March 15, 2011 | JACKIE CALMES
More than two months after the Tucson shootings, the administration is calling together both the gun lobby and gun safety groups to find common ground. But President Obama has no plans to take the lead in proposing further gun control legislation, aides say, and the nation’s major gun rights group is snubbing the invitation.
On Tuesday, officials at the Justice Department will meet with gun control advocates in the first of what will be a series of meetings over the next two weeks with people on different sides of the issue, including law enforcement, retailers and manufacturers, to seek agreement on possible legislative or administrative actions.
The effort follows Mr. Obama’s call, in a column on Sunday in a Tucson newspaper, to put aside “stale policy debates” and begin “a new discussion” on ways to better enforce and strengthen existing laws to keep mentally unstable, violent and criminal people from getting guns.
But the National Rifle Association, for decades the most formidable force against proposals to limit gun sales or ownership, is refusing to join the discussion — possibly dooming it from the start, given the lobby’s clout with both parties in Congress. Administration officials had indicated they expected that the group would be represented at a meeting, perhaps on Friday.
“Why should I or the N.R.A. go sit down with a group of people that have spent a lifetime trying to destroy the Second Amendment in the United States?” said Wayne LaPierre, the longtime chief executive of the National Rifle Association.
He named Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who has almost no role in gun-related policies, and Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
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Good, I would not meet with this asshole either on this.
FUBO!
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The criminals get does get their weapons through these channels anyway
In countries where handguns are forbidden criminals still have firearms
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The criminals get does get their weapons through these channels anyway
In countries where handguns are forbidden criminals still have firearms
Funny Obama is only making this an issue after the AZ shooting. What about the Maj. Hassan shooting? What bout the dozens of cops killed by minorities in inner cities the lst few months? What about the recolving door justice system lettig these dsame criminals out after serving little or no time? What about the ATF scandal brewing? hhhmmm?
This is all emotionally driven crap from Obama and everyone knows it.
Only a complete fool believes a damn thing coming from obama on this or any issue.
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Libs are very pissed he's not going after high-caps :) :) :)
People with criminal records are very happy he's not going after gun show loophole.
Skip is right: enforce current laws, reward states, and improve the system - those are common sense things that any president should re-inforce.
This is a non-story, and anyone who whines about "but but but the president's timing..." LOL he waited until the biggest natural disaster in 20 years to leak it. Recognize that. He is scared of the gun issue, needs to be 'on record' as supporting existing laws but not going after any rights, and your re-posting it just did that ;)
LOL 33 has a nice slot in the obama tool belt.
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No. 33 sees right though this disgusting asshole you voted for and kneel down for daily.
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No. 33 sees right though this disgusting asshole you voted for and kneel down for daily.
i spin anything when asked to.
But honestly, we both know i'm voting repub unless its you-know-who on the ticket.
Did i kneepad in the past, sure. Do I do it now, hell no.
Obama isn't going after gun rights - he's suggesting we enforce the law. I'd be the first to admit we should close that fcking loophole. Ex-cons can buy AR-15s by the dozen. Ain't that some shit.
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i spin anything when asked to.
But honestly, we both know i'm voting repub unless its you-know-who on the ticket.
There's nothing to indicate you're telling the truth here. I liken it to Blacken playing devil's advocate on his whork25 account.
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i spin anything when asked to.
But honestly, we both know i'm voting repub unless its you-know-who on the ticket.
Did i kneepad in the past, sure. Do I do it now, hell no.
Obama isn't going after gun rights - he's suggesting we enforce the law. I'd be the first to admit we should close that fcking loophole. Ex-cons can buy AR-15s by the dozen. Ain't that some shit.
Why does he need new laws to enforce existing laws?
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i'll take a cell phone pic as I vote repub in 2012, no prob man.
Why does he need new laws to enforce existing laws?
so less people die from gun violence because shit ain't getting enforced. He's actually echoing the NRA - enforce the laws we have. Repbuss freak the fck out whenever obama mentions guns. He doesn't want to do anything but keep the laws we have - no high cap chance, no loophole clause change.
He's essentially GWB on guns. And you can't argue otherwise.
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i'll take a cell phone pic as I vote repub in 2012, no prob man.
so less people die from gun violence because shit ain't getting enforced. He's actually echoing the NRA - enforce the laws we have. Repbuss freak the fck out whenever obama mentions guns. He doesn't want to do anything but keep the laws we have - no high cap chance, no loophole clause change.
He's essentially GWB on guns. And you can't argue otherwise.
you didnt answer the question.
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you didnt answer the question.
Why does he need to enforce current gun laws?
Cause the nat'l database is run state-by-state....... and some states are letting people with arrrests/ mental issues/ restraining orders STILL BUY GUNS.
Move that to national, I don't have a problem with that. They are letting the loophole remain, so you can still buy 75 guns and bury them and nobody will know. But it'll stop people from buying them from dealers where there are some cracks in system now.
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Why does he need to enforce current gun laws?
Cause the nat'l database is run state-by-state....... and some states are letting people with arrrests/ mental issues/ restraining orders STILL BUY GUNS.
Move that to national, I don't have a problem with that. They are letting the loophole remain, so you can still buy 75 guns and bury them and nobody will know. But it'll stop people from buying them from dealers where there are some cracks in system now.
In other words - you are full of fucking shit and doing anything possible to defend your hero from his bullshit.
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In other words - you are full of fucking shit and doing anything possible to defend your hero from his bullshit.
???
State by state mgmt of the national database isn't working. Did you not understand what obama said on the issue? People can buy guns when they shouldn't be able to, due to differeing standards.
You know your shit on the economy, but I think your response to this issue is more reactionary and emotional than fact-based.
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In other words - you are full of fucking shit and doing anything possible to defend your hero from his bullshit.
That about sums it up.
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We can buy high-caps and sell loophole all day, that's safe. An incentive system to keep laazy states from givving bunk/incomplete data which lets people who shouldnt get guns, get guns.
Please tell me what yall disagree with here, and why:
• First, we should begin by enforcing laws that are already on the books. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is the filter that's supposed to stop the wrong people from getting their hands on a
gun. Bipartisan legislation four years ago was supposed to strengthen this system, but it hasn't been properly implemented. It relies on data supplied by states - but that data is often incomplete and inadequate. We
must do better.
• Second, we should in fact reward the states that provide the best data - and therefore do the most to protect our citizens.
• Third, we should make the system faster and nimbler. We should provide an instant, accurate, comprehensive and consistent system for background checks to sellers who want to do the right thing, and make sure that criminals can't escape it.
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• Third, we should make the system faster and nimbler. We should provide an instant, accurate, comprehensive and consistent system for background checks to sellers who want to do the right thing, and make sure that criminals can't escape
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NICS checks take two minutes at best. Please - I have bought mny guns and the NICS check was never a problem. But oh yeah - the criminals in LA, NYC, DC, etc are going to go into a gun store and follow all of this crappola.
::) ::) ::)
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???
State by state mgmt of the national database isn't working. Did you not understand what obama said on the issue? People can buy guns when they shouldn't be able to, due to differeing standards.
You know your shit on the economy, but I think your response to this issue is more reactionary and emotional than fact-based.
The database never worked, somehow criminals manage to get their hands on guns, and I can guarantee you not all from gun shows. Laws are only for the people that follow the law, thus criminals don't. It's the same stupid shit, keep adding or expanding laws that fuck the people that do the right thing. All the while those who don't play by the rules run ruff shod over the rest of us. Why the fuck do I have to get a FOID card in IL? What good does it do? None, the criminals and gangs aren't getting them but because I play by the rules I do. Why can't I get a CCW in IL? God forbid I would be able to defend my self it the situation arose.
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Obama Looking For Ways Around Congress On Gun Policy
With Reporting By Lucia Graves
WASHINGTON -- Faced with a Congress hostile to even slight restrictions of Second Amendment rights, the Obama administration is exploring potential changes to gun laws that can be secured strictly through executive action, administration officials say.
The Department of Justice held the first in what is expected to be a series of meetings on Tuesday afternoon with a group of stakeholders in the ongoing gun-policy debates. Before the meeting, officials said part of the discussion was expected to center around the White House's options for shaping policy on its own or through its adjoining agencies and departments -- on issues ranging from beefing up background checks to encouraging better data-sharing.
Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering. “The purpose of these discussions is to be a productive exchange of good ideas from folks across the spectrum,” one official said. “We think that’s a good place to start.”
<snip>
The extent to which Obama can change gun law without the hand of Congress is not, gun control activists say, wholly insignificant. Though they say they'd prefer longer-lasting, broader legislative responses to shootings like that which occurred in Tucson, Ariz., in early January, there are notable gaps that can be filled with presidential action.
With respect to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), a Clinton-era rule had prevented the military from reporting to the Federal Bureau of Investigation that the alleged shooter, Jared Loughner, had been rejected as a recruit for failing a drug test. Obama could reverse that without Congress, Glaze and an administration official said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/obama-gun-laws...
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Obama Looking For Ways Around Congress On Gun Policy
With Reporting By Lucia Graves
WASHINGTON -- Faced with a Congress hostile to even slight restrictions of Second Amendment rights, the Obama administration is exploring potential changes to gun laws that can be secured strictly through executive action, administration officials say.
The Department of Justice held the first in what is expected to be a series of meetings on Tuesday afternoon with a group of stakeholders in the ongoing gun-policy debates. Before the meeting, officials said part of the discussion was expected to center around the White House's options for shaping policy on its own or through its adjoining agencies and departments -- on issues ranging from beefing up background checks to encouraging better data-sharing.
Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering. “The purpose of these discussions is to be a productive exchange of good ideas from folks across the spectrum,” one official said. “We think that’s a good place to start.”
<snip>
The extent to which Obama can change gun law without the hand of Congress is not, gun control activists say, wholly insignificant. Though they say they'd prefer longer-lasting, broader legislative responses to shootings like that which occurred in Tucson, Ariz., in early January, there are notable gaps that can be filled with presidential action.
With respect to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), a Clinton-era rule had prevented the military from reporting to the Federal Bureau of Investigation that the alleged shooter, Jared Loughner, had been rejected as a recruit for failing a drug test. Obama could reverse that without Congress, Glaze and an administration official said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/obama-gun-laws...
Lets see Pistols Check
Shotgun Check
AR15 Check
Guess I'm all set
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BUMP