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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: tom joad on March 24, 2011, 08:34:24 AM

Title: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 24, 2011, 08:34:24 AM
Bob, who do you think is/was the better bodybuilder, Kamali or Prince?

Opinions from others are welcome as well.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: delta9mda on March 24, 2011, 08:36:28 AM
Bob, who do you think is/was the better bodybuilder, Kamali or Prince?

Opinions from others are welcome as well.
Prince
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 24, 2011, 08:40:39 AM
Prince
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Meso_z on March 24, 2011, 08:41:14 AM
t. prince of course.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: CalvinH on March 24, 2011, 08:53:25 AM
King Prince.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: 225for70 on March 24, 2011, 09:01:32 AM
Prince
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Tito24 on March 24, 2011, 09:02:24 AM
thats evident. tom prince
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 24, 2011, 09:03:18 AM
at their peak?  or today?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Kim Jong Bob on March 24, 2011, 09:04:13 AM
lol prince was a awesome bodybuilder back in the day, if they met at there best kamali wouldnt have a chanse
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Mr Nobody on March 24, 2011, 09:08:02 AM
Prince
X2.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Instints on March 24, 2011, 09:52:19 AM
Prince by a million mile
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on March 24, 2011, 09:53:46 AM
Does anyone have a video of Kamali's forearm training. Mine are too big and I need to shrink them down a bit.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Meso_z on March 24, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=38184&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=37859&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/161/images/Tom_Prince_72.jpg)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: mesmorph78 on March 24, 2011, 10:35:56 AM
Prince all day
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 24, 2011, 10:41:45 AM
there's no question that pics of prince at his peak blow kamali away.

however, i just wonder whether tom can still be considered the "better bodybuilder" when what he did to achieve his physique caused him to retire prematurely from the game and live the rest of his life as a twink with medical issues? (not that kamali's walking around with a pro physique to brag about;  he's clearly developed palumboism over time.)


  
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Option D on March 24, 2011, 10:50:50 AM
this is a joke right.. Prince and King dont belong in the same sentence...Prince by a country mile
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Heavy_Hitter on March 24, 2011, 11:04:00 AM
Lol!! Prince is a very underated pro! Kamali has the aesthetics of a watermelon!
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Tito24 on March 24, 2011, 11:07:15 AM
shari was the victim of one big hype.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Option D on March 24, 2011, 11:07:30 AM
Lol!! Prince is a very underated pro! Kamali has the aesthetics of a watermelon!

LMAO
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Option D on March 24, 2011, 11:08:05 AM
Prince was Branch before Branch..
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: ToxicAvenger on March 24, 2011, 11:12:19 AM
 fat tamali


(http://www.heavysports.com/images/kingkamali.jpg)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: dr.chimps on March 24, 2011, 11:12:45 AM
Prince or Tamali. Paper or Plastic.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Dr Dutch on March 24, 2011, 11:14:18 AM
Today King might be a tad better that Prince. Plus he got kidneys.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 24, 2011, 11:21:01 AM
Today King might be a tad better that Prince. Plus he got kidneys.

that's the case for kamali being the better bodybuilder.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: doison on March 24, 2011, 11:36:27 AM
Does anyone have a video of Kamali's forearm training. Mine are too big and I need to shrink them down a bit.
:)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: ChristopherA on March 24, 2011, 02:37:26 PM
Prince was Branch before Branch..
Much better than Branch.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: spude on March 24, 2011, 02:40:23 PM
am i the only one having an insane desire to post that legendary pic of prince's meat... ::)
i just was told some time ago that it's not a good idea... :-\
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on March 24, 2011, 02:59:22 PM
Prince by far
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Option D on March 24, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
Much better than Branch.

oh yeah.. i know that.. i was just saying like he had tons of muscle mass like branch. but Prince looked better IMO
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on March 24, 2011, 03:09:07 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: YngiweRhoads on March 24, 2011, 03:10:22 PM
Who's a better BB King?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: kiwiol on March 24, 2011, 03:14:12 PM
Prince by far

Yep. How do you think Prince compares to Mike Francois? I know he never peaked properly and had a poor competitive streak as a pro, but weren't they of similar height and muscularity?

Too bad both of them retired way too early due to health issues. Tom was a freak in his prime and a league or 2 above Kamali, who had a slightly better run as a pro.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on March 24, 2011, 03:19:20 PM
Yep. How do you think Prince compares to Mike Francois? I know he never peaked properly and had a poor competitive streak as a pro, but weren't they of similar height and muscularity?

Too bad both of them retired way too early due to health issues. Tom was a freak in his prime and a league or 2 above Kamali, who had a slightly better run as a pro.

That's actually a good comparison , Tom may have had the edge on the lower body and Mike on the upper , lots of potential on both cut short
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: kiwiol on March 24, 2011, 03:26:42 PM
That's actually a good comparison , Tom may have had the edge on the lower body and Mike on the upper , lots of potential on both cut short

Yes, although it's crazy that Prince had an edge over Francois on legs, which was one of Mike's freakiest body parts.

Either of them would've cleaned up this year's Arnold Classic and placed in the top 4 of the last few Olympias easy, IMO.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on March 24, 2011, 03:40:00 PM
Yes, although it's crazy that Prince had an edge over Francois on legs, which was one of Mike's freakiest body parts.

Either of them would've cleaned up this year's Arnold Classic and placed in the top 4 of the last few Olympias easy, IMO.

You make a good point I think the both would trample anyone at the Arnold too , it seems the the gene-pool is dwindling in the sport these days
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tendonitis on March 24, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
Yes, although it's crazy that Prince had an edge over Francois on legs, which was one of Mike's freakiest body parts.

Either of them would've cleaned up this year's Arnold Classic and placed in the top 4 of the last few Olympias easy, IMO.

Yeah, Tom and Mike would clean up against today's competition.
I think if they both had stayed healthy Mike would have ended up the better bodybuilder. He already had an Arnold victory and he seemed more mentally stable and focused than Tom. He stayed in Columbus away from the drama and nonsense and just put in the hard work. I can't imagine him ever getting on a message board and engaging in the bullshit that Tom did. 
Mike reminded me of Dorian a lot with his work ethic and demeanor.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Alexander D on March 24, 2011, 03:49:05 PM
Prince could have been Mr O possibly... if he didn't turn into a junkie crackhead and slam nubain all day long.

Kamali? LOL!!
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Cableguy on March 24, 2011, 03:54:58 PM
Bob, who do you think is/was the better bodybuilder, Kamali or Prince?

Opinions from others are welcome as well.

This isn't a serious question, right?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: kiwiol on March 24, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
Yeah, Tom and Mike would clean up against today's competition.
I think if they both had stayed healthy Mike would have ended up the better bodybuilder. He already had an Arnold victory and he seemed more mentally stable and focused than Tom. He stayed in Columbus away from the drama and nonsense and just put in the hard work. I can't imagine him ever getting on a message board and engaging in the bullshit that Tom did. 
Mike reminded me of Dorian a lot with his work ethic and demeanor.

Spot on and ditto for me, as far as Mike goes - back in the mid 90s, I thought he'd win the Olympia after Dorian retired. He lifted pretty heavy too.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 24, 2011, 04:21:46 PM
yes, prince was a higher tier pro than kamali.

yes, kamali has advanced stage palumboism, but prince rendered himself a twink for life.  

tom would probably kill to have king's physique today and health issues.

so in determining who is/was the "better bodybuilder", you guys are saying that it's irrelevant if one of them seriously fucks up his health permamently because of bodybuilding?  :-\
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Army of One on March 24, 2011, 04:55:11 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EVx1YBffyHw/StMBDQtdVEI/AAAAAAAAF4A/I39nminJ42g/s400/Tom_Prince_23.jpg)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: BayGBM on March 24, 2011, 07:31:59 PM
Bob, who do you think is/was the better bodybuilder, Kamali or Prince?

Opinions from others are welcome as well.

Prince.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: BayGBM on March 24, 2011, 07:36:17 PM
Yep. How do you think Prince compares to Mike Francois? I know he never peaked properly and had a poor competitive streak as a pro, but weren't they of similar height and muscularity?

Too bad both of them retired way too early due to health issues. Tom was a freak in his prime and a league or 2 above Kamali, who had a slightly better run as a pro.

Francois.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: claymore on March 24, 2011, 07:58:52 PM
Tom
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: AbrahamG on March 24, 2011, 08:02:36 PM
Kamali.  For three reasons.  1.  He placed better in an Olympia than Prince ever did.  2.  He doesn't look as though he has stage 4 cancer as Prince does.  3.  To the best of my knowledge he has never "brown bagged" it as Prince used to do.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Earl1972 on March 24, 2011, 09:42:41 PM
kamali got 10th at the 01 olympia

i think prince was out of the top 15

E
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Aaron Singerman on March 24, 2011, 09:51:37 PM
Prince.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Meso_z on March 24, 2011, 10:43:58 PM
kamali got 10th at the 01 olympia

i think prince was out of the top 15

E
Olympia "placings" doesnt matter. History tells us that most are fixed or "judged" poorly.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Dr Dutch on March 25, 2011, 01:11:35 AM
What a great future both these fine young lads had ahead of them.....
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: WillGrant on March 25, 2011, 01:12:47 AM
at their peak?  or today?

Id still give that to Prince  :D Tamali looks like 400 pounds of shit stuffed into a 50 pound  bag
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: pellius on March 25, 2011, 01:25:16 AM
Prince. All the way Prince.

Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: GraniteCityDon on March 25, 2011, 01:26:16 AM
I was always a fan of Tom, his triceps and hams were almost perfect in ever way. Had tons of mass, was easily one of the strongest guys in the gym if legend is true and has a ton of potential which went unrealised. When he got 3rd in NOC i thought the time was changing and he was starting to figure out how to get in top shape, but unfortunately (as is the case for all of us in 1 way or another) life took a poor turn for him.

Excellent bodybuilder, his physique had no real weaknesses to speak of and he was far more likely to be able to row a 300lb dumbbell than Kamali (we have all seen the pic!) I once saw an off season pic of Tom hitting a side chest which emphasised his insane thickness, never been able to find it again.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Dr Dutch on March 25, 2011, 03:35:48 AM
There the prime example of fit-for-life athletes
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Meso_z on March 25, 2011, 03:37:50 AM
Id still give that to Prince  :D Tamali looks like 400 pounds of shit stuffed into a 50 pound  bag
;D
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Pet shop boys on March 25, 2011, 06:03:45 AM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EVx1YBffyHw/StMBDQtdVEI/AAAAAAAAF4A/I39nminJ42g/s400/Tom_Prince_23.jpg)

WTF !
 Is this a real pic ?




WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: kiwiol on March 25, 2011, 07:06:54 AM
WTF !
 Is this a real pic ?




WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Why don't you ask him? He seems to be pointing at you.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Meso_z on March 25, 2011, 07:16:00 AM
Why don't you ask him? He seems to be pointing at you.
:D
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: The_Punisher on March 25, 2011, 07:16:52 AM
Why don't you ask him? He seems to be pointing at you.



lol....hahahahhaha
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: BIG_STI on March 25, 2011, 07:57:31 AM
Prince was one of the few pros who actually took something close to the GH15 pro stack
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: wild willie on March 25, 2011, 07:58:09 AM
Prince by a country mile!
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on March 25, 2011, 10:19:42 AM
Kamali.  For three reasons.  1.  He placed better in an Olympia than Prince ever did.  2.  He doesn't look as though he has stage 4 cancer as Prince does.  3.  To the best of my knowledge he has never "brown bagged" it as Prince used to do.

you make very valid points
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on March 25, 2011, 10:20:21 AM
What a great future both these fine young lads had ahead of them.....

lolz
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on March 25, 2011, 10:22:10 AM
WTF !
 Is this a real pic ?




WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Tom's great grand dad was Asian
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: hipolito mejia on March 25, 2011, 10:31:22 AM
Tom's great grand dad was Asian

Why?

Because once you go Asian, you never go caucasian ?  :)
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Dr Dutch on March 25, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
This is Chris Duffy with a baseball cap....
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: YoungBlood on March 25, 2011, 10:43:54 AM
Prince was one of the few pros who actually took something close to the GH15 pro stack

If you ever read muscle mayhem and saw the archived thread about how much a pro spends on a stack, Prince 'claimed' to spend $1200 for the "Night of Champions" where placed 3rd. 
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 25, 2011, 10:55:38 AM
If you ever read muscle mayhem and saw the archived thread about how much a pro spends on a stack, Prince 'claimed' to spend $1200 for the "Night of Champions" where placed 3rd.  

maybe tom did spend only $1200 and he received the bulk of his stash in exchange for other (personal) services?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Schmoff on March 25, 2011, 10:59:55 AM
Tom's great grand dad was Asian

really?  ???
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: yates fan on March 25, 2011, 01:58:09 PM
which one is the better bodybuilder is a tossup,kamali had better placings in shows,but he never displayed as good a physique as prince did when he finished 3rd at the n.o.c.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: YoungBlood on March 25, 2011, 02:11:49 PM
maybe tom did spend only $1200 and he received the bulk of his stash in exchange for other (personal) services?

I personally don't believe Prince's claim, hence why the word is in quotation marks. I think that was probably a 2-3wk price tag for him.

Can't believe everything you read, right?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: GraniteCityDon on March 25, 2011, 02:11:59 PM
here it is...   :o



Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Les Grossman on March 25, 2011, 02:16:28 PM
Tom Prince.....by way of a wider bathroom stall stance.

 ;D
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: _bruce_ on March 25, 2011, 02:21:16 PM
Tom Prince.....by way of a wider bathroom stall stance.

 ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: dr.chimps on March 25, 2011, 02:23:00 PM
Tom Prince.....by way of a wider bathroom stall stance.

 ;D
Ha! But is it Larry Craig wide?   
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Les Grossman on March 25, 2011, 02:51:46 PM
Ha! But is it Larry Craig wide?   

 ;D   ;D   ;D
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 25, 2011, 09:02:51 PM
another key point is that kamali hasn't officially retired from competition yet (as far as i know) and so king (unlike tom) can still win a future mr. olympia.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: dyslexic on March 26, 2011, 01:24:44 AM
Tamali looks like that kid that was supposed to be "all that" -- can't think of his name. "Bloofy?"
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Tito24 on March 26, 2011, 02:53:57 AM
if branch can win shows tamali certainly can
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Leatherneck on March 26, 2011, 12:22:12 PM
It could be argued that Kamali has placed better at times but none of us really believe that King was in Prince's league. The better question really would be Prince or Francois. In which case I'd say Francois.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: spude on March 26, 2011, 12:42:16 PM
It could be argued that Kamali has placed better at times but none of us really believe that King was in Prince's league. The better question really would be Prince or Francois. In which case I'd say Francois.

QFT...francois had a lot better upper body and legs to match...prince, to be brutally honest, was only hams and tris...maybe delts...mike also had that solid, granite-like look, guys nowadays seem to lack...maybe he truly had a foundation, who knows ??? continuing being brutally honest neither of those guys truly had flow in there physiques...prince maybe had a better structure but he kinda messed up with it in his later years...francois was able to keep his waist tight etc but he just was born with that blocky look...nowhere near as bad as current mr o though...
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 26, 2011, 07:50:19 PM
Chick, it's admirable that you're having difficulty choosing between your two amigos, but your silence is a shame since few can provide your valuable insight as a man who has intimate familiarity with both of these warriors.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: FREAKgeek on March 27, 2011, 06:38:31 AM
Kamali was able to place considerably higher at the Olympia, Arnold, and Ironman.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: spude on March 27, 2011, 07:20:07 AM
Chick, it's admirable that you're having difficulty choosing between your two amigos, but your silence is a shame since few can provide your valuable insight as a man who has intimate familiarity with both of these warriors.

you mean chick's checked both fellas and their best assets inside out...
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: njflex on March 27, 2011, 09:29:33 AM
prince was better his body just couldn't handle stress needed to get bigger,harder,ect over and over that is needed to be a top placing pro.other factors also with other substances added to that equation.he looked great when he turned pro but he tried to push the formula to the next level and got sick.
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: TrueGrit on March 27, 2011, 09:54:52 AM
WTF !
 Is this a real pic ?




WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Think about it, if it was fake would you go with a two incher or a John Holmes special?
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: arce1988 on March 27, 2011, 11:17:04 AM
  lmmfao
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: Nirvana on March 27, 2011, 01:50:21 PM
"Ole Tom Prince had about the biggest arms of anyone I've seen in person...but he was gay as hell though."

-Nirvana's Old Man
Title: Re: Chick, who's a better BB - King Kamali or Tom Prince?
Post by: tom joad on March 27, 2011, 07:56:55 PM
Bob, you must be really torn between favouring one of your iron brothers over another and so instead, how bout King vs. Rusty or Tom vs. Rusty?