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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: coltrane on April 05, 2011, 06:48:08 AM
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Guys, for sometime now it seems as if my chest workouts don't seem to get my chest muscles worked. My delts and triceps seems to do most of the work.
My workouts are usually incline bar, incline db, flat db, cable crossovers. Reps are usually around 8-12 range.
Thoughts?
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Coltrane,
I really like close grips on the smith machine......for me they seem to hit inner and upper pecs.....for years I pressed with a shoulder width grip.....one night I tried a close grip and my chest really inflated!
My tris and delts always overpowered my chest.....I became frustrated and thought that I would never develop my chest.
After using the close grips for a year and a half now.....I am started to see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Just my .02.
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Might consider Dips for chest/pec's. Unlike the flat or incline press, with dips you are pressing down and along the body. Some will find (if given a true effort on dips) that dips hits the chest better than pressing outward and away from the body, as with using flat/inclines (BB or DB).
Gironda perfected dips to a art, so might do some research on that. Gripping with knuckles facing forward stretches and calls into play a whole different feel to chest/pec training. . Another advance dipping style is having the knuckles facing inward. These methods seem to hit the upper, as well as the lower pecs for most guys.
The Pec Deck can be a rewarding chest/pec builder. Want the Pec Deck that places the elbows on the pads, rather than gripping the handles out and away from the body. With elbows on the pad you get more of a direct influence on the chest/pecs. With the hands way out a lot of the direct line of force is lost, meaning less influence of the chest/pecs directly. Either style PecDeck is good, but elbows on pads would be first choice.
There are a couple ways of using DB flys, rather than the conventional methods, that will focus on hitting the chest/pecs also. Good Luck.
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Thank you both.
I think I will try more sets of dips. I also think part of my problem is that when pressing with db's, i tend to use a narrow range of motion on the up and down. Maybe I should get back under the barbell on a flat bench with a bit of a wider hand position.
Thanks guys.
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Just checked out dipping with knuckles facing in. Interesting techique. I will be trying those with baited breath, as they look difficult.
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Might try Gironda's benches to the neck, extra wide grip..elbows inline with the upper chest.. Though it's a good idea to have a wide awake spotter when first doing these. Can try DB's also, extra wide grip & the elbows inline with the upper chest, first choice would be a BB. Or do both version in the same workout.
It's not more dips but how you preform the ones your doing.
If into SS's than heavy bent arm fly's immediately followed by DB presses, using the same DB's that you used on the heavy fly's. Can even work a program where your are doing quad sets for the chest/pecs. Quad sets seem effected for a lot of body areas, not just the chest. Or try Giant sets, etc. Good Luck.
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seems to me like you need to drop the weight a little and work on your form more, realy smooth reps..big squeezes, slow negatives etc
ive always struggled with my chest and ive got to say ive never felt dips in my chest ever, its all shoulders and triceps
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Excellent recommendations, as always, from JPM.
And, I will personally testify that Gironda-style dips do, indeed, call into play upper and outer as well as lower region pec fibers.
Since v-bars are all but obsolete, I adapt my form as best I can to parallel dip bars: palms resting on the butt of the handles with the knuckles of both hands facing about halfway between forward and towards each other. This form “forces” your elbows to flare out properly to recruit maximal pec activation.
Maintain the proper concave body arch with toes pointed down & chin almost resting on your chest.
Go down nice & deep before pressing up, stopping short of lockout.
I actually stop about ¾ of the way up to keep more tension on chest rather than tri’s, in which there is a tendency to happen with closer bars.
Neck presses are also extremely effective for stressing more upper pec fibers.
Larry Scott advocated doing them on a Smith.
I like doing them on a Hammer Strength flat press machine.
Drop the seat so that the handles are at about clavicle level.
Take a nice wide grip (as wide as you can), keep those elbows up, and press.
Again, stop short of lockout.
I stop well before lockout on all chest pressing movements, which increases/improves TUT on the pectoral muscle.
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Great advice from all.
I used to do a workout with flat db's.. sets of 15 fast reps. I got up to the 95's for 15's. These high reps seemed to work.. but the more i think about it, it was probably just the delts and triceps fatiguing before the chest did, causing the chest to take over on the later reps. Like a pre-exhaust.
This is why I love the training board. No bs. Just straight advice.
Thanks fellas.
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If you’re training strictly for cosmetic muscle/hypertrophy, it’s my belief that muscles love constant tension.
Almost every exercise has a point at which tension is relieved from the muscle to some degree (it‘s either transferred to joints, ancillary muscles, or gravity takes over).
Partial rep training can be quite effective if done in a way that limits your ROM by confining it to the HARDEST portion of the movement.
Watch Branch & Ronnie train chest sometime for a good idea/understanding of this principle.
JPM will attest to seeing many large men (including pros) train in this manner.
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Are you referring the the bottom half of the rep? Like a few inches short of full ROM?
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That's kinda how i did my 15's. Quick, and with a shorter ROM. My chest grew nicely then. I think i'll add those back.
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you just need to work on your form.
shoulder blades pinched back, lower back slightly arched, do not roll your shoulders forward. squeeze your chest together on the way up. lower the bar to your lower chest or sternum.
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Just checked out dipping with knuckles facing in. Interesting techique. I will be trying those with baited breath, as they look difficult.
Dips are a great Ex but i would not do them with your Knuckles facing in... ala Vince Gironda. watch your shoulders.
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shoulder blades pinched back, lower back slightly arched, do not roll your shoulders forward.
I think that's something a lot of guys neglect to do on db presses.
It's almost like they forget about that detail by the time they kick the db's up and lean back into position on the bench, etc.
I still occasionally find myself not being entirely mindful of it, and I can tell right after that set.
You'll know when you're contracting those pecs after a set of presses.
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My form is fine.
The problem is is that my front delts and triceps are well developed, which take over.
Thanks guys for the insight.
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ive got to say, i dont know anyone whos bodybuilder size who relies on dips as a chest movement.....
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I think a lot of ppl do dips as a chest exercise. Yes, it hits triceps well, but also chest.
I throw it in at the end, but before cables.
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My form is fine.
The problem is is that my front delts and triceps are well developed, which take over.
Thanks guys for the insight.
your front delts and triceps cant take over if your form is fine!
good form means your chest is contracting and the other muscles are just support!
if your shoulders and tris are doing all the work, your chest isnt contracting properly, and that means youve got bad form!
try working out your chest with no weight at all. just lay down on a bench and start doing presses or flys with no weight in yoru hands. make sure you have your shoulder blades pinched together and your lower back slightly arched. move your arms by squeezing your chest. do sets of 20 reps. squeezing your chest all the way through the movement. stop at the top and hold the chest squeeze.
doing you chest like that will teach you how to use good form. start light and slowly move up in weight while you keep that good form, with hard pec contractions throughout the whole range of motion, limited delts and tris.
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Pre-Exhaust Super-Sets.
{Flyes:3x10-12
{Bench Press:3x6-10
{Crossovers:3x12
{Smith Inclines:3 x 6-10
Dips:3 x max reps with bodyweight
You won`t end up benching 500 pounds,but you`ll develop some thick pecs.
No rest between exercises,a minutes rest between super-sets.
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yes pre-Exhaust is from Bob Kennedy...works good, i like laterals and then BB press for shoulders. The good thing is you will not need to use such heavy weight in the BB press after the flys, i would use incline flys rather than cable crossovers...but if it works it works. Everyone is diffrent.
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bro if you cant feel your chest pumped after db press while focusing on flexing the pec at the top, go in front of the mirror and learn how to flex your pecs muscle
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your front delts and triceps cant take over if your form is fine!
good form means your chest is contracting and the other muscles are just support!
if your shoulders and tris are doing all the work, your chest isnt contracting properly, and that means youve got bad form!
try working out your chest with no weight at all. just lay down on a bench and start doing presses or flys with no weight in yoru hands. make sure you have your shoulder blades pinched together and your lower back slightly arched. move your arms by squeezing your chest. do sets of 20 reps. squeezing your chest all the way through the movement. stop at the top and hold the chest squeeze.
doing you chest like that will teach you how to use good form. start light and slowly move up in weight while you keep that good form, with hard pec contractions throughout the whole range of motion, limited delts and tris.
exactly...............
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I disagree. My form is fine. I've been at it for 19 years and have worked with bench press guys before.
Maybe it's that my chest routine needs a good shake up.
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where do you lower the bar to? alot of people recently stated going crazy for bench press where you lower the bar to a point higher up on the chest or even to the neck. actually, you should be lowerig the bar to your lower chest or even as low as right above the sternum. the natural plane for the bench press is a reverce c, curving towards your head as you go up.
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Guys, for sometime now it seems as if my chest workouts don't seem to get my chest muscles worked. My delts and triceps seems to do most of the work.
My workouts are usually incline bar, incline db, flat db, cable crossovers. Reps are usually around 8-12 range.
Thoughts?
Just go super wide grip. Put your hands REALLY far apart and bench. Start with light weight. It'll fry your chest.
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Thanks for all the advices fellas. Tonight's chest workout will be as follows:
Incline barbell--slightly wider than shoulder grip.
Flat barbell--again, slightly wider. I hate flat bar, but I need to change it up for a few weeks.
Flat DB--higher rep, sets of 15 with max weight. Failure at 15. Fast reps, no slow up/down here. (only 3 sets)
Incline DB--same as flat db.
Dips
Pec-dec--forarms against pads pec-dec machine (thanks JPM)
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Just go super wide grip. Put your hands REALLY far apart and bench. Start with light weight. It'll fry your chest.
load of rubbish. this advice is as shit as "Arnolds Mr o wins".. don´t do a wide grip in benches. Your shoulders are open to injury. Use a medium grip and save your joints.
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Thanks for all the advices fellas. Tonight's chest workout will be as follows:
Incline barbell--slightly wider than shoulder grip.
Flat barbell--again, slightly wider. I hate flat bar, but I need to change it up for a few weeks.
Flat DB--higher rep, sets of 15 with max weight. Failure at 15. Fast reps, no slow up/down here. (only 3 sets)
Incline DB--same as flat db.
Dips
Pec-dec--forarms against pads pec-dec machine (thanks JPM)
go with shoulder width, no wider. you get a more deep pec stretch and contraction with a narrower grip.
focus on declines and remove the incline stuff. you have trouble hitting your pecs and inclines involve to much shoulders. declines remove the shoulders and isolate the pec.
again, lighten up the wieght and work on good form.
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load of rubbish. this advice is as shit as "Arnolds Mr o wins".. don´t do a wide grip in benches. Your shoulders are open to injury. Use a medium grip and save your joints.
You just gotta go light weight and high rep. I do it in the 20 rep range. Combined with other chest movements it'll fry your chest really well.
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Might consider Dips for chest/pec's. Unlike the flat or incline press, with dips you are pressing down and along the body. Some will find (if given a true effort on dips) that dips hits the chest better than pressing outward and away from the body, as with using flat/inclines (BB or DB).
Gironda perfected dips to a art, so might do some research on that. Gripping with knuckles facing forward stretches and calls into play a whole different feel to chest/pec training. . Another advance dipping style is having the knuckles facing inward. These methods seem to hit the upper, as well as the lower pecs for most guys.
The Pec Deck can be a rewarding chest/pec builder. Want the Pec Deck that places the elbows on the pads, rather than gripping the handles out and away from the body. With elbows on the pad you get more of a direct influence on the chest/pecs. With the hands way out a lot of the direct line of force is lost, meaning less influence of the chest/pecs directly. Either style PecDeck is good, but elbows on pads would be first choice.
There are a couple ways of using DB flys, rather than the conventional methods, that will focus on hitting the chest/pecs also. Good Luck.
To add to this, I find that my chest feels more isolated on one of those dip machines (with a weight stack and a chair you sit in) rather than on the dips where you actually raise and lower your body, so maybe give the machine a try too.
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go with shoulder width, no wider. you get a more deep pec stretch and contraction with a narrower grip.
focus on declines and remove the incline stuff. you have trouble hitting your pecs and inclines involve to much shoulders. declines remove the shoulders and isolate the pec.
again, lighten up the wieght and work on good form.
100% spot on... :)