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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on May 03, 2011, 07:04:12 AM
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http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/obama-advisor-waterboarding-didnt-lead-to-bin-laden-kill
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Did Waterboarding Just Get Vindicated?
Joe Weisenthal ^ | 5-2-11 | Business Insider
The view from (some) on the right in regard to the Bin Laden news is: waterboarding is vindicated.
One GOP Congressman tweeted: Wonder what President Obama thinks of water boarding now?
The reason is that there's a direct line to be traced from the big news to data collected at GITMO -- data that was almost certainly collected under duress.
Here's the key interrogation note regarding a courier going to Abottabad:
Rest @ link
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
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Facts say otherwise.
The fact is that the detainees who gave up the courier's name were waterboarded. Fact.
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http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/02/rep_peter_king_on_oreilly_waterboarding_led_us_to_bin_laden.html
:o
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http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/02/rep_peter_king_on_oreilly_waterboarding_led_us_to_bin_laden.html
:o
peter king hahaha you might as well quote peter griffin from the family guy :D :D :D
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Yawn - Peter King is one of the top guys on the intel committee you communist puke. Don't you have others' posts to steal or something?
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CIA Director Says Intel from Waterboarding Led to Bin Laden Raid
Fire it up14233 Share
On the role of interrogation:
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Can you confirm that it was as a result of water boarding that we learned what we needed to learn to go after Bin Laden?
LEON PANETTA: Brian, in the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here... It's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got... I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.
BRIAN WILLIAMS: So finer point, one final time, enhanced interrogation techniques -- which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years -- that includes water boarding?
LEON PANETTA: That's correct
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
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peter king hahaha you might as well quote peter griffin from the family guy :D :D :D
LMFAO this coming from the guy who posted a quote from an OBAMA ADVISOR!!!!
idiot
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CIA Director Says Intel from Waterboarding Led to Bin Laden Raid
Fire it up14233 Share
On the role of interrogation:
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Can you confirm that it was as a result of water boarding that we learned what we needed to learn to go after Bin Laden?
LEON PANETTA: Brian, in the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here... It's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got... I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.
BRIAN WILLIAMS: So finer point, one final time, enhanced interrogation techniques -- which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years -- that includes water boarding?
LEON PANETTA: That's correct
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Boom.
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I would torture these fuckers myself if they allowed it.
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I would torture these fuckers myself if they allowed it.
that's a good idea we could have them read your 30+ posts a day,that will make them talk :D
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that's a good idea we could have them read your 30+ posts a day,that will make them talk :D
or your true adonis like youtube skills...
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Source: Talk Radio News Service
Tuesday, May 3, 2011 At 12:28PM | Justin Duckham
Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is claiming the information that tipped the U.S. off to terrorist leader Osama bin Laden’s location was not collected through the controversial enhanced interrogation technique known as waterboarding.
“It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance,” Rumsfeld said during an interview with the conservative magazine Newsmax. “But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”
Bin Laden’s location was reportedly revealed by tracking the terrorist leader’s top courier, whose identity was revealed by al Qaeda official Khald Sheik Mohammed. Rumsfeld’s statement counters speculation from a number of conservative commentators and lawmakers that Mohammed may have revealed the identity following the enhanced interrogation technique, a development that many claimed would justify the use of the controversial method.
Rumsfeld joins a cast of others who have shed doubt on the role waterboarding may have played in the investigation. When asked during an interview on MSNBC Tuesday morning if waterboarding directly lead to bin Laden, Obama’s top counterterrorism advisor John Brennan responded “not to my knowledge.” In addition, an Associated Press story that cites former CIA officials attributes the bin Laden information to standard interrogation perfrormed months after Mohammed was subjected to the technique.
Mohammed, a Guantanamo Bay detainee, was reportedly waterboarded 183 times.
Read more: http://www.talkradionews.com/topstories/2011/5/3/rumsfe...
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Ha ha ha. So panetta is lying?
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I am sure it was a part of it... Was it a direct thing? Who knows... If it REALLY was, then I suppose I will have to change my idea about waterboarding in regards to it's usefulness.
I do still consider it torture... but I guess that's the name of the game right?
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I am sure it was a part of it... Was it a direct thing? Who knows... If it REALLY was, then I suppose I will have to change my idea about waterboarding in regards to it's usefulness.
I do still consider it torture... but I guess that's the name of the game right?
Funny , I have said from day 1 I am perfectly ok w torture. Lol.
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Ha ha ha. So panetta is lying?
hahaha so rummy is lying ::)
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hahaha so rummy is lying ::)
Rummy is 78 yo and has been out of the loop for years.
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I am sure it was a part of it... Was it a direct thing? Who knows... If it REALLY was, then I suppose I will have to change my idea about waterboarding in regards to it's usefulness.
I do still consider it torture... but I guess that's the name of the game right?
I think it pales in comparison to sawing someone's head off and posting video of it on the internet.
There's a reason the Mexican cartels started beheading people after seeing those videos. Can't say I've come across any examples of them waterboarding people, though.
hahaha so rummy is lying ::)
Answer the question, douche bag. Is Panetta lying? Do you honestly think you, or any the twats you're quoting, know better than the head of the CIA? ::)
Watching you dems trying to bury the fact that it was info. gained from waterboarded terrorists that set the wheels of OBL's death in motion years ago is hilarious. The blood must be boiling. All those years saying that waterboarding never yielded good info. completely ruined. Hahahaha!
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I think it pales in comparison to sawing someone's head off and posting video of it on the internet.
There's a reason the Mexican cartels started beheading people after seeing those videos. Can't say I've come across any examples of them waterboarding people, though.
Answer the question, douche bag. Is Panetta lying? Do you honestly think you, or any the twats you're quoting, know better than the head of the CIA? ::)
Watching you dems trying to bury the fact that it was info. gained from waterboarded terrorists that set the wheels of OBL's death in motion years ago is hilarious. The blood must be boiling. All those years saying that waterboarding never yielded good info. completely ruined. Hahahaha!
You're right dude... compared to beheadings of innocent civilians on Al-Jazeera and what not... It's not shit... Good perspective.
Fuck it... Glad we got the guy however we did.
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You're right dude... compared to beheadings of innocent civilians on Al-Jazeera and what not... It's not shit... Good perspective.
Fuck it... Glad we got the #### however we did.
True that. I'm just hoping they show the picture of him with his head blown into pieces.
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I am sure it was a part of it... Was it a direct thing? Who knows... If it REALLY was, then I suppose I will have to change my idea about waterboarding in regards to it's usefulness.
I do still consider it torture... but I guess that's the name of the game right?
the whole thing is that it can be very effective if they have information but it can lead to false intel b/c they are going to tell you whatever the shit you want hear to get it to stop.
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Answer the question, douche bag. Is Panetta lying? Do you honestly think you, or any the twats you're quoting, know better than the head of the CIA? ::)
Watching you dems trying to bury the fact that it was info. gained from waterboarded terrorists that set the wheels of OBL's death in motion years ago is hilarious. The blood must be boiling. All those years saying that waterboarding never yielded good info. completely ruined. Hahahaha!
bu bu bu but but...obamas advisor said so...
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True that. I'm just hoping they show the picture of him with his head blown into pieces.
I want it to look like that Britney Spears southpark image.
(http://ryanmcneely.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/britneys-new-look-20080320031042702.jpg)
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I think it pales in comparison to sawing someone's head off and posting video of it on the internet.
There's a reason the Mexican cartels started beheading people after seeing those videos. Can't say I've come across any examples of them waterboarding people, though.
Answer the question, douche bag. Is Panetta lying? Do you honestly think you, or any the twats you're quoting, know better than the head of the CIA? ::)
Watching you dems trying to bury the fact that it was info. gained from waterboarded terrorists that set the wheels of OBL's death in motion years ago is hilarious. The blood must be boiling. All those years saying that waterboarding never yielded good info. completely ruined. Hahahaha!
someone is lying pin arms
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And?
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bu bu bu but but...obamas advisor said so...
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someone is lying pin arms
I seriously have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.
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I seriously have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.
Nothing new here as he has the grammatical skills of a fourth grader.
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I seriously have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.
Panetta and rummy, ones telling the truth ones not. pin arms is berzerkfairy
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Panetta and rummy, ones telling the truth ones not. pin arms is berzerkfairy
You are in no position to call names.
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Panetta and rummy, ones telling the truth ones not. pin arms is berzerkfairy
Well, I would probably go with the current CIA Director... He is probably the one most in the loop with current affairs.
His guys are the ones running the interrogation locations after all right?
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You are in no position to call names.
You are in no position to call names.
why is that ???
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why is that ???
You are a proven thief and serial plagiarizer.
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Panetta and rummy, ones telling the truth ones not. pin arms is berzerkfairy
You're getting slapped around all over the board, Mons. Better go back to dropping YouTube videos and leave the writing to those with some degree of intelligence.
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You're getting slapped around all over the board, Mons. Better go back to dropping YouTube videos and leave the writing to those with some degree of intelligence.
hahaha i know your not talking about yourself :D
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hahaha i know your not talking about yourself :D
Hey now...
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Attacking skip? Lol.
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You are a proven thief and serial plagiarizer.
coming from a guy who post half truths or down right lies that means alot :D :D
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coming from a guy who post half truths or down right lies that means alot :D :D
Like what.
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coming from a guy who post half truths or down right lies that means alot :D :D
I see youve taken to the obama deflect method...why dont you just start calling everyone bush and say that you do what you do b/c of bush like obammers?
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Is he the head of the CIA?
Look at you flailing about trying to find someone that you think will supersede Panetta's claim.
Protip: Keep trying. :D :D :D :D
You're embarrassing yourself pretty badly here. Nothing new for you, though.
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Nothing new here as he has the grammatical skills of a fourth grader.
..and right on queue....
hahaha i know your not talking about yourself :D
Keep up the good work, dummy.
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Here's another question. Is this retard aware that Rumsfeld actually said, less than an hour after claiming that waterboarding didn't lead to the info, that waterboard did in-fact lead to the info.
http://vimeo.com/23242991
Hahahaha. Dipshit Blacken's argument is crashing down on his head. All he has left are liberals in Obama's admin who weren't in any position to have any access to that intel. when it was gathered giving their opinion.
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Is he the head of the CIA?
Look at you flailing about trying to find someone that you think will supersede Panetta's claim.
Protip: Keep trying. :D :D :D :D
You're embarrassing yourself pretty badly here. Nothing new for you, though.
your in your 20's lives at home with your mommy and i'm embarrassing myself :D :D :D :D :D
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Hahaha, bitter, jobless welfare leech meltdown.
This thread is done. He's about to enter full meltdown mode.
I'd like to congratulate Barack Obama for lying on a laundry list of campaign promises that involved him keeping every Bush-era terror policy in place. :D :D :D :D
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Blackass thread backfire.
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your in your 20's lives at home with your mommy and i'm embarrassing myself :D :D :D :D :D
lmao classic posting just this just after having someone you cite recant his statement that you used to justify your stance...
if you dont see it, then it doesnt exist
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I'd like to congratulate Barack Obama for lying on a laundry list of campaign promises that involved him keeping every Bush-era terror policy in place. :D :D :D :D
As would I... On this, he has my unwavering support.
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Ex-CIA Counterterror Chief: ‘Enhanced Interrogation’ Led U.S. to bin Laden
By Massimo Calabresi Wednesday, May 4, 2011 | 94 Comments
MUSLM.NET / APA former head of counterterrorism at the CIA, who was investigated last year by the Justice Department for the destruction of videos showing senior al-Qaeda officials being interrogated, says that the harsh questioning of terrorism suspects produced the information that eventually led to Osama bin Laden’s death.
Jose Rodriguez ran the CIA’s CounterTerrorism Center from 2002 to 2005 during the period when top al-Qaeda leaders Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM) and Abu Faraj al-Libbi were taken into custody and subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques” at secret black site prisons overseas. KSM was subjected to waterboarding, sleep deprivation and other techniques. Al Libbi was not waterboarded, but other EITs were used on him.
“Information provided by KSM and Abu Faraj al Libbi about Bin Laden’s courier was the lead information that eventually led to the location of [bin Laden’s] compound and the operation that led to his death,” Rodriguez tells TIME in his first public interview. Rodriguez was cleared of charges in the video destruction investigation last year.
Rodriguez’s assertion drew criticism from the White House. “There is no way that information obtained by [enhanced interrogation techniques] was the decisive intelligence that led us directly to bin Laden,” says National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor. “It took years of collection and analysis from many different sources to develop the case that enabled us to identify this compound, and reach a judgment that bin Laden was likely to be living there.”
Rodriguez agrees that other events played a role in developing the intelligence on bin Laden’s whereabouts. And he says that despite widespread focus on KSM, al Libbi’s information was the most important. “Both KSM and al Libbi were held at CIA black sites and subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques,” Rodriguez says. “Abu Faraj was not waterboarded, but his information on the courier was key.”
Faraj told interrogators that the courier would only carry messages from bin Laden to the outside world every two months or so. “I realized that bin Laden was not really running his organization. You can’t run an organization and have a courier who makes the rounds every two months,” Rodriguez says. “So I became convinced then that this was a person who was just a figurehead and was not calling the shots, the tactical shots, of the organization. So that was significant.”
While reports suggest that the information KSM provided on the courier came weeks or months after he was subjected to EITs, Rodriguez says al Libbi’s tips came just one week after he was subjected to the harsh treatment.
Former Bush officials say that the use of enhanced interrogation techniques is misunderstood. “The main thing that people misunderstand about the program is it was intended to encourage compliance,” says John McLaughlin, deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency during the period in which waterboarding was used. “It wasn’t set out to torture people. It was never conceived of as a torture program.”
One former senior intelligence official says that “once KSM decided resistance was unwise, he then started spilling his guts to the agency and started providing lots of info, like the noms de guerres of couriers and explaining how al-Qaeda worked.” Rodriguez says, ”It’s a mistake to say this was about inflicting pain. These measures were about instilling a sense of hopelessness and that led them to compliance.” None of the Bush officials madea clear distinction between inducing compliance and torture.
Rodriguez says the U.S. is unlikely to go back to using EITs, but he thinks they should. “We’ve given up on this and so much has happened that it would be very difficult for any administration to bring it back, and it’s unfortunate because it’s a tool that we have given up on and it will be hard for people in important positions to be able to deal with terrorists.”
President Obama and his top intelligence officials believe waterboarding constitutes torture. The U.S. has prosecuted those who have used waterboarding in the past.
The White House says the debate over whether to use techniques that could constitute torture is beside the point. “This is a distraction from the broader picture, which is that this achievement [of bin Laden's death] was the result of years of painstaking work by our intelligence community that drew from multiple sources,” says the White House’s Vietor. “It’s not fair to the scores of people who did this work over many years to suggest that this is somehow all the result of waterboarding eight years ago.”
Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/04/did-torture-get-the-us-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LO7cLUF1
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333386 why would you take the word of leon panetta
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The Waterboarding Trail to bin Laden
Former CIA Director Michael Hayden said that as late as 2006 fully half of the government's knowledge about the structure and activities of al Qaeda came from harsh interrogations.
By MICHAEL B. MUKASEY
.Osama bin Laden was killed by Americans, based on intelligence developed by Americans. That should bring great satisfaction to our citizens and elicit praise for our intelligence community. Seized along with bin Laden's corpse was a trove of documents and electronic devices that should yield intelligence that could help us capture or kill other terrorists and further degrade the capabilities of those who remain at large.
But policies put in place by the very administration that presided over this splendid success promise fewer such successes in the future. Those policies make it unlikely that we'll be able to get information from those whose identities are disclosed by the material seized from bin Laden. The administration also hounds our intelligence gatherers in ways that can only demoralize them.
Consider how the intelligence that led to bin Laden came to hand. It began with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), who broke like a dam under the pressure of harsh interrogation techniques that included waterboarding. He loosed a torrent of information—including eventually the nickname of a trusted courier of bin Laden.
That regimen of harsh interrogation was used on KSM after another detainee, Abu Zubaydeh, was subjected to the same techniques. When he broke, he said that he and other members of al Qaeda were obligated to resist only until they could no longer do so, at which point it became permissible for them to yield. "Do this for all the brothers," he advised his interrogators.
Editorial Board Member Matt Kaminski on the bin Laden photos.
.Abu Zubaydeh was coerced into disclosing information that led to the capture of Ramzi bin al Shibh, another of the planners of 9/11. Bin al Shibh disclosed information that, when combined with what was learned from Abu Zubaydeh, helped lead to the capture of KSM and other senior terrorists and the disruption of follow-on plots aimed at both Europe and the United States.
Another of those gathered up later in this harvest, Abu Faraj al-Libi, also was subjected to certain of these harsh techniques and disclosed further details about bin Laden's couriers that helped in last weekend's achievement.
The harsh techniques themselves were used selectively against only a small number of hard-core prisoners who successfully resisted other forms of interrogation, and then only with the explicit authorization of the director of the CIA. Of the thousands of unlawful combatants captured by the U.S., fewer than 100 were detained and questioned in the CIA program. Of those, fewer than one-third were subjected to any of these techniques.
Former CIA Director Michael Hayden has said that, as late as 2006, even with the growing success of other intelligence tools, fully half of the government's knowledge about the structure and activities of al Qaeda came from those interrogations. The Bush administration put these techniques in place only after rigorous analysis by the Justice Department, which concluded that they were lawful. Regrettably, that same administration gave them a name—"enhanced interrogation techniques"—so absurdly antiseptic as to imply that it must conceal something unlawful.
The current president ran for election on the promise to do away with them even before he became aware, if he ever did, of what they were. Days after taking office he directed that the CIA interrogation program be done away with entirely, and that interrogation be limited to the techniques set forth in the Army Field Manual, a document designed for use by even the least experienced troops. It's available on the Internet and used by terrorists as a training manual for resisting interrogation.
In April 2009, the administration made public the previously classified Justice Department memoranda analyzing the harsh techniques, thereby disclosing them to our enemies and assuring that they could never be used effectively again. Meanwhile, the administration announced its intentions to replace the CIA interrogation program with one administered by the FBI. In December 2009, Omar Faruq Abdulmutallab was caught in an airplane over Detroit trying to detonate a bomb concealed in his underwear. He was warned after apprehension of his Miranda rights, and it was later disclosed that no one had yet gotten around to implementing the new program.
Yet the Justice Department, revealing its priorities, had gotten around to reopening investigations into the conduct of a half-dozen CIA employees alleged to have used undue force against suspected terrorists. I say "reopening" advisedly because those investigations had all been formally closed by the end of 2007, with detailed memoranda prepared by career Justice Department prosecutors explaining why no charges were warranted. Attorney General Eric Holder conceded that he had ordered the investigations reopened in September 2009 without reading those memoranda. The investigations have now dragged on for years with prosecutors chasing allegations down rabbit holes, with the CIA along with the rest of the intelligence community left demoralized.
Immediately following the killing of bin Laden, the issue of interrogation techniques became in some quarters the "dirty little secret" of the event. But as disclosed in the declassified memos in 2009, the techniques are neither dirty nor, as noted by Director Hayden and others, were their results little. As the memoranda concluded—and as I concluded reading them at the beginning of my tenure as attorney general in 2007—the techniques were entirely lawful as the law stood at the time the memos were written, and the disclosures they elicited were enormously important. That they are no longer secret is deeply regrettable.
It is debatable whether the same techniques would be lawful under statutes passed in 2005 and 2006—phrased in highly abstract terms such as "cruel, inhuman and degrading" treatment—that some claimed were intended to ban waterboarding even though the Senate twice voted down proposals to ban the technique specifically. It is, however, certain that intelligence-gathering rather than prosecution must be the first priority, and that we need a classified interrogation program administered by the agency best equipped to administer it: the CIA.
We also need to put an end to the ongoing investigations of CIA operatives that continue to undermine intelligence community morale.
Acknowledging and meeting the need for an effective and lawful interrogation program, which we once had, and freeing CIA operatives and others to administer it under congressional oversight, would be a fitting way to mark the demise of Osama bin Laden.
Mr. Mukasey was attorney general of the United States from 2007 to 2009.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576305023876506348.html