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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on May 19, 2011, 07:23:05 PM
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GM Shuts Down Volt Plant to Prepare for New Malibu, Increase Production
Motortrend ^ | 19 May 2011 | Jason Udy
Posted on May 19, 2011 4:35:01 PM EDT by smokingfrog
General Motors plans to temporarily shut down its Detroit-Hamtramck plant for four weeks, starting in June, to prepare for increased production of the Chevrolet Volt and the export version, the Opel Ampera. They also plan to reconfigure the plant to build the upcoming 2013 Chevy Malibu.
Planned upgrades to the plant include installing new tools, equipment and overhead conveyer systems which all add up to increased production of the Volt and Ampera. After the plant reopens GM will still be working on changes for the upcoming production of the 2013 Malibu.
The planned closure will temporarily reduce the already limited supply of Volts on dealer lots over the next three months, but it is expected to increase the supply to fulfill the demand long-term. The Volt has only been available in California, New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Virginia and Washington, D.C. at this time.
When production resumes “The Volt will be available to customers nationwide by the end of 2011,” said Cristi Landy, director of Chevrolet Volt Marketing. “By taking the time to reconfigure the plant, we will be better able to meet the tremendous consumer demand.”
GM will begin exporting the Volt and Ampera to Europe and China once the plant is back online with increased production. GM expects a production capacity of 16,000 cars including exports and demo cars for U.S. dealers. By 2012 GM expects global production to be at 60,000 with three-fourths of those sold right here in the U.S.
Production of the new 2013 Malibu will begin next year once all of the upgrades have been completed. The Detroit-Hamtramck plant is ramping down production of the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne after discontinuing the manufacture of the Northstar engine.
(Excerpt) Read more at wot.motortrend.com ...
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I read the volt will have awful residual value.
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I've heard that getting replacement parts for car like that takes some time, too.
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Electric Cars suck.
That is all.
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GM Shuts Down Volt Plant to Prepare for New Malibu, Increase Production
Motortrend ^ | 19 May 2011 | Jason Udy
Posted on May 19, 2011 4:35:01 PM EDT by smokingfrog
General Motors plans to temporarily shut down its Detroit-Hamtramck plant for four weeks, starting in June, to prepare for increased production of the Chevrolet Volt and the export version, the Opel Ampera. They also plan to reconfigure the plant to build the upcoming 2013 Chevy Malibu.
Planned upgrades to the plant include installing new tools, equipment and overhead conveyer systems which all add up to increased production of the Volt and Ampera. After the plant reopens GM will still be working on changes for the upcoming production of the 2013 Malibu.
The planned closure will temporarily reduce the already limited supply of Volts on dealer lots over the next three months, but it is expected to increase the supply to fulfill the demand long-term. The Volt has only been available in California, New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Virginia and Washington, D.C. at this time.
When production resumes “The Volt will be available to customers nationwide by the end of 2011,” said Cristi Landy, director of Chevrolet Volt Marketing. “By taking the time to reconfigure the plant, we will be better able to meet the tremendous consumer demand.”
GM will begin exporting the Volt and Ampera to Europe and China once the plant is back online with increased production. GM expects a production capacity of 16,000 cars including exports and demo cars for U.S. dealers. By 2012 GM expects global production to be at 60,000 with three-fourths of those sold right here in the U.S.
Production of the new 2013 Malibu will begin next year once all of the upgrades have been completed. The Detroit-Hamtramck plant is ramping down production of the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne after discontinuing the manufacture of the Northstar engine.
(Excerpt) Read more at wot.motortrend.com ...
I heard on either Rush or Hannity, that Chevy has only sold abouy 1,700 Volts. IF that's correct, what a PATHETIC showing for this hunk of junk that Obama and his cronies tried to pimp to the nation.
People actually had their "clunkers" crushed for this?
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GM Shuts Down Volt Plant to Prepare for New Malibu, Increase Production
Motortrend ^ | 19 May 2011 | Jason Udy
Posted on May 19, 2011 4:35:01 PM EDT by smokingfrog
General Motors plans to temporarily shut down its Detroit-Hamtramck plant for four weeks, starting in June, to prepare for increased production of the Chevrolet Volt and the export version, the Opel Ampera. They also plan to reconfigure the plant to build the upcoming 2013 Chevy Malibu.
Planned upgrades to the plant include installing new tools, equipment and overhead conveyer systems which all add up to increased production of the Volt and Ampera. After the plant reopens GM will still be working on changes for the upcoming production of the 2013 Malibu.
The planned closure will temporarily reduce the already limited supply of Volts on dealer lots over the next three months, but it is expected to increase the supply to fulfill the demand long-term. The Volt has only been available in California, New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Virginia and Washington, D.C. at this time.
When production resumes “The Volt will be available to customers nationwide by the end of 2011,” said Cristi Landy, director of Chevrolet Volt Marketing. “By taking the time to reconfigure the plant, we will be better able to meet the tremendous consumer demand.”
GM will begin exporting the Volt and Ampera to Europe and China once the plant is back online with increased production. GM expects a production capacity of 16,000 cars including exports and demo cars for U.S. dealers. By 2012 GM expects global production to be at 60,000 with three-fourths of those sold right here in the U.S.
Production of the new 2013 Malibu will begin next year once all of the upgrades have been completed. The Detroit-Hamtramck plant is ramping down production of the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne after discontinuing the manufacture of the Northstar engine.
(Excerpt) Read more at wot.motortrend.com ...
The article doesn't prove out the aim of your thread. The plant is temporarily closing to:
a.)To tool up for 2013 Malibu production
b.)Prepare for increased Volt and Ampera production for up to 60k vehicles for domestic and export consumption.
And keep in mind that the Volt is only on sale in around 5-10 states and won't be available in all 50 until just after 2012 begins. It's also production limited, hence why GM is closing a production facility to tool up for increased production.
We've had this debate before and judging by the responses and posts in those threads....many posters are lacking in the knowledge department.
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Didnt mean it to sound that way.
Problem with the volt is pure dollars and cents and reliability.
Who is going to spend 40k for that? Niche buyers? Of course.
However, why buy a volt when I can get a Honda Civic for far less that will run reliably for 200k miles plus and have good resale value?
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The article doesn't prove out the aim of your thread. The plant is temporarily closing to:
a.)To tool up for 2013 Malibu production
b.)Prepare for increased Volt and Ampera production for up to 60k vehicles for domestic and export consumption.
And keep in mind that the Volt is only on sale in around 5-10 states and won't be available in all 50 until just after 2012 begins. It's also production limited, hence why GM is closing a production facility to tool up for increased production.
We've had this debate before and judging by the responses and posts in those threads....many posters are lacking in the knowledge department.
But, selling only 1700 of them, even including the tree-hugging state of California, is PITIFUL.
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first round of any new vehicle with a new technology is going to be super expensive, flawed, and tough to service.
will that change when it's available in 45 more states? Sure it will. it's a START. taht's all that matters. If you don't like early runs of ipads or cars, or computers, or anything, don't get it. I don't. But some people will be okay with the tradeoff. And over time, it'll become cheaper and more efficient.
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Its still a niche vehicle at best.
I read yesterday re-sale is likely to be about 17k after 36 months.
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Didnt mean it to sound that way.
Problem with the volt is pure dollars and cents and reliability.
Who is going to spend 40k for that? Niche buyers? Of course.
However, why buy a volt when I can get a Honda Civic for far less that will run reliably for 200k miles plus and have good resale value?
And I'm not totally disagreeing with you either. A full 50 state, multi-nation rollout + increased production will only lead to more volume which leads to a lower price. Gen2-Gen3 versions of the car roll-out in the next 5-7 years, the car gets lighter, cheaper, less complex and more capable. $4-5 gas helps too. Like you said, it's a numbers game. No one can predict the future but just 2 years ago the automobile press was saying that this car was vaporware and wouldn't see the light of day either.
The Volt itself will never sell as much as a Civic, but, in my opinion, it will end up selling in #'s that matter.
Plus the tech behind it was designed to be scalable and transferable so it could and most likely will get spread around to different platforms in the future.
And to MCWAY, 1700 cars to limited states isn't pitiful. The Volt is production limited at this point, hence the article above. They simply aren't available for people to buy.
Please know what you're talking about on the subject before you post anymore.
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And I'm not totally disagreeing with you either. A full 50 state, multi-nation rollout + increased production will only lead to more volume which leads to a lower price. Gen2-Gen3 versions of the car roll-out in the next 5-7 years, the car gets lighter, cheaper, less complex and more capable. $4-5 gas helps too. Like you said, it's a numbers game. No one can predict the future but just 2 years ago the automobile press was saying that this car was vaporware and wouldn't see the light of day either.
The Volt itself will never sell as much as a Civic, but, in my opinion, it will end up selling in #'s that matter.
Plus the tech behind it was designed to be scalable and transferable so it could and most likely will get spread around to different platforms in the future.
And to MCWAY, 1700 cars to limited states isn't pitiful. The Volt is production limited at this point, hence the article above. They simply aren't available for people to buy.
The only reason this car is seeing the light of day is because the government is subsidizing it. Otherwise, the Volt would simply be the world's most expensive paperweight.
Please know what you're talking about on the subject before you post anymore.
People don't want them. If any other car that was sold in that many states, yet only managed to pawn off 1700 of them, it'd be labeled a flop....especially when that includes a state the SIZE of California (that's been pushing the "green" stuff for ages).
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People don't want them. If any other car that was sold in that many states, yet only managed to pawn off 1700 of them, it'd be labeled a flop....especially when that includes a state the SIZE of California (that's been pushing the "green" stuff for ages).
If there was a big enough market for the piece of shit car..Even GM would find a way to meet that demand..
However, at the current pricing point it makes zero sense economically for consumers to purchase one..
Only true Rich "greenies" would buy them...
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Chevy making a comeback! The new malibu is nice, the Cruze too. About time they started bring their european cars over here.
Volt will pick up. No doubt about it!
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Electric Cars suck.
That is all.
Because it bears repeating.
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Chevy making a comeback! The new malibu is nice, the Cruze too. About time they started bring their european cars over here.
Volt will pick up. No doubt about it!
Yeah! Way to go! USA USA USA!!!!
::)
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first round of any new vehicle with a new technology is going to be super expensive, flawed, and tough to service.
will that change when it's available in 45 more states? Sure it will. it's a START. taht's all that matters. If you don't like early runs of ipads or cars, or computers, or anything, don't get it. I don't. But some people will be okay with the tradeoff. And over time, it'll become cheaper and more efficient.
Seriously? That's all that matters?
What kind of timeline for being a "finished" product are we looking at when all that matters initially is that "it's a START?" How many generations of engineering design until this kind of "start" becomes a legitimate player in the auto industry? It's certainly not going to be second generation....there needs to be major improvement in many areas before electric cars are a legitimate every day auto for the average person.
When the only thing that matters in the beginning is a "start;" when quantitative equivalency with the I.C. engine is viewed as a total non-issue, then be prepared for decades to pass before this turd sandwich of a "start" reaches any kind of legitimate finish.
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I heard on either Rush or Hannity, that Chevy has only sold abouy 1,700 Volts. IF that's correct, what a PATHETIC showing for this hunk of junk that Obama and his cronies tried to pimp to the nation.
People actually had their "clunkers" crushed for this?
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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it might be decades before a reasonably priced electric car becomes available. Sure.
Volt generations 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and others may be overpriced, low value, and bought very slowly.
But over time, the design will improve, price will fall, etc. I remember in the 1980s when when VCRs would cost $800 and they sucked. Today they're $25 at Walmart and can do many more tasks. (Assuming you don't want digital recording).
I'm sure people made fun of this silly technology in 1985. "Who would pay $800 for something just to watch tv"... heck, wait a decade or two and they're dirt cheap and do ten times more.
Electric cars may be the same way.
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it might be decades before a reasonably priced electric car becomes available. Sure.
Volt generations 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and others may be overpriced, low value, and bought very slowly.
But over time, the design will improve, price will fall, etc. I remember in the 1980s when when VCRs would cost $800 and they sucked. Today they're $25 at Walmart and can do many more tasks. (Assuming you don't want digital recording).
I'm sure people made fun of this silly technology in 1985. "Who would pay $800 for something just to watch tv"... heck, wait a decade or two and they're dirt cheap and do ten times more.
Electric cars may be the same way.
The technology that electric cars need to meet up with is simply the longevity of batteries... People like fast cars, and while the Tesla is fast and looks good, they can not be driven for long times or distances... ESPECIALLY at high speeds.
When electric cars can do that... then they will be better.
They also need to sound good... because that quiet engine shit is dangerous.
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The technology that electric cars need to meet up with is simply the longevity of batteries... People like fast cars, and while the Tesla is fast and looks good, they can not be driven for long times or distances... ESPECIALLY at high speeds.
When electric cars can do that... then they will be better.
They also need to sound good... because that quiet engine shit is dangerous.
I know people 'like' fast cars.
But if/when gas moves up to 8 or 12 dollars a gallon (isn't it that high in europe already?) I bet we have a lot more college kids and elderly give up the gas guzzlers they 'like' and opt for a car they can afford.
I have no problem with anyone driving a gas guzzling monster, but I do like the idea of electric cars being available cheap for those who want to buy one.
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I know people 'like' fast cars.
But if/when gas moves up to 8 or 12 dollars a gallon (isn't it that high in europe already?) I bet we have a lot more college kids and elderly give up the gas guzzlers they 'like' and opt for a car they can afford.
I have no problem with anyone driving a gas guzzling monster, but I do like the idea of electric cars being available cheap for those who want to buy one.
You can't even drive an electric car very far at 70 miles an hour... 140 miles is about average.
That's all I'm saying... batteries need to catch up and so do proximity detection systems for these quiet ass cars.
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You can't even drive an electric car very far at 70 miles an hour... 140 miles is about average.
That's all I'm saying... batteries need to catch up and so do proximity detection systems for these quiet ass cars.
still... for a little old lady who drives to church and the grocery store once a week, an electric car would be a good option.
for a college kid with a shoestring budget, and can't drive all that well... being able to putt putt around campus in a small electric car is a good option. A lot of parents might prefer it to giving their kid a gas guzzler that can go 110 mph.
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still... for a little old lady who drives to church and the grocery store once a week, an electric car would be a good option.
for a college kid with a shoestring budget, and can't drive all that well... being able to putt putt around campus in a small electric car is a good option. A lot of parents might prefer it to giving their kid a gas guzzler that can go 110 mph.
Yes for that 1 in a 100 person... It's great.
You do realize that this is America... Where most people live about 30 miles from their jobs... It will be an issue.
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Yes for that 1 in a 100 person... It's great.
You do realize that this is America... Where most people live about 30 miles from their jobs... It will be an issue.
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We are at 10% UE.... so at least 10 in 100 people doesn't need to drive that far to work :)
Toss in maybe 10% of the population being old/retired (another 1 in 100)
and 5% of people being students or working from home (another 5 in 100?)
That's 1 in 4 drivers (at least) that could "get by" with an electric car. And that's just with the CURRENT crop of electric cars - they will get better with time. We have the equivalent of the 1985 VCR for electric cars today. Where will they be in 10 years?
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We are at 10% UE.... so at least 10 in 100 people doesn't need to drive that far to work :)
Toss in maybe 10% of the population being old/retired (another 1 in 100)
and 5% of people being students or working from home (another 5 in 100?)
That's 1 in 4 drivers (at least) that could "get by" with an electric car. And that's just with the CURRENT crop of electric cars - they will get better with time. We have the equivalent of the 1985 VCR for electric cars today. Where will they be in 10 years?
Electric Cars have been around for YEARS... battery tech has not gotten much better.
So I don't think your comparison is valid.
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Electric Cars have been around for YEARS... battery tech has not gotten much better.
So I don't think your comparison is valid.
Watch who killed the electric car. The battery companies were purchased and basically gutted.
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well, over time, if oil gets more expensive and people just can't afford $12 per gallon gasoline, I'm betting some kind of better battery emerges.
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We are at 10% UE.... so at least 10 in 100 people doesn't need to drive that far to work :)
Toss in maybe 10% of the population being old/retired (another 1 in 100)
and 5% of people being students or working from home (another 5 in 100?)
That's 1 in 4 drivers (at least) that could "get by" with an electric car. And that's just with the CURRENT crop of electric cars - they will get better with time. We have the equivalent of the 1985 VCR for electric cars today. Where will they be in 10 years?
People said this 10 years ago. They're still shit. And the Chevy Volt is the shittiest of the shit.
No middle class American is going to shell out $40k for that piece of shit. Not a single one. Hence why they can't even break 1,000 monthly sales NATIONWIDE.
Much like everything else the Obama regime has done, the Chevy Volt endeavor is yet another failure.
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Wow........... the facts about the car make it look much better....
Only available in the U.S. market since mid-December 2010
The restricted roll-out is due to limited production, as GM planned production for 2011 is only 10,000 units.
It's the only car that will go coast to coast on electricity without plugging it in, and nobody else can come close."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
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Ignorance, they cup is overflowing.
GM sold the patents for the EV1 battery tech to Chevron at the end of the program. Those patents expire in 2013 but current tech has probably passed them by. And battery has matured quite a bit since the EV1 and other experiments in the 1980's. The difference between a Lithium Ion, Lithium Polymer or even a standard NickleMetalHydride battery is leaps and bounds better than a typical lead acid setup from 20 years ago.
Lots of myopic and ill-informed comments in this thread.
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That's 1 in 4 drivers (at least) that could "get by" with an electric car. And that's just with the CURRENT crop of electric cars - they will get better with time. We have the equivalent of the 1985 VCR for electric cars today. Where will they be in 10 years?
We could have been light years ahead of that by now if we wanted... or I mean if oil wasn't in the way...
It's not the first time Chevy has hyped an electric car to burry it themselves. They hyped it when it wasn't available and then hyped their other cars when is was. Not shocking... Business as usual.
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We could have been light years ahead of that by now if we wanted... or I mean if oil wasn't in the way...
It's not the first time Chevy has hyped an electric car to burry it themselves. They hyped it when it wasn't available and then hyped their other cars when is was. Not shocking... Business as usual.
Well according to many on GetBig we shouldn't develop any sort of new technologies because they are expensive at first and Obama is president. It just makes more economic sense to keep relying on petroleum/gasoline to power our automobiles. I mean, oil will be plentiful and around forever!
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Well according to many on GetBig we shouldn't develop any sort of new technologies because they are expensive at first and Obama is president. It just makes more economic sense to keep relying on petroleum/gasoline to power our automobiles. I mean, oil will be plentiful and around forever!
I'm all for developing that technology. Dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into GM so they can puke out some $45k shitbox that no middle-class people can afford is not a good plan. And the sales number since the Volt came out support that.
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I'm all for developing that technology. Dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into GM so they can puke out some $45k shitbox that no middle-class people can afford is not a good plan. And the sales number since the Volt came out support that.
You're seeing the trees and missing the forest as well as plenty of other things. What other technology are you "all for"? It doesn't matter what is developed in a lab or tech center if it isn't attached to tires hitting the road. The Volt is an example of developing tech and putting it to practical use. You, as well as others, refuse to acknowledge the fact that this is a Gen1 car/tech and will only improve in range, price, availability and capability as the Gen2 and Gen3 hit the road. Look at the Gen1 Prius back in 1999 or so and the Gen3 Prius now. It's like this with all cars, why do you ignore this? There is def. some cognitive dissonance going on when this subject is being discussed.
This car and the tech it's based on was in development far before the bailouts and it was being tested in it's final stages when GM when through it's bankruptcy proceedings. Mules were on the road far, far before that. So the government didn't pour billion of taxpayer dollars into GM so they could produce the Volt.
And it's no shit-box:
http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
You can use the "it's too expensive" argument all you want, an argument which I agree with at this stage, but the tech (which can be applied to any other platform which is another plus) will improve from here on out. This sort of thing has to start somewhere and with oil becoming scarce and more expensive with each passing year, that somewhere is now. Whether you like it or not.
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You're seeing the trees and missing the forest as well as plenty of other things. What other technology are you "all for"? It doesn't matter what is developed in a lab or tech center if it isn't attached to tires hitting the road. The Volt is an example of developing tech and putting it to practical use. You, as well as others, refuse to acknowledge the fact that this is a Gen1 car/tech and will only improve in range, price, availability and capability as the Gen2 and Gen3 hit the road. Look at the Gen1 Prius back in 1999 or so and the Gen3 Prius now. It's like this with all cars, why do you ignore this? There is def. some cognitive dissonance going on when this subject is being discussed.
This car and the tech it's based on was in development far before the bailouts and it was being tested in it's final stages when GM when through it's bankruptcy proceedings. Mules were on the road far, far before that. So the government didn't pour billion of taxpayer dollars into GM so they could produce the Volt.
And it's no shit-box:
http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
You can use the "it's too expensive" argument all you want, an argument which I agree with at this stage, but the tech (which can be applied to any other platform which is another plus) will improve from here on out. This sort of thing has to start somewhere and with oil becoming scarce and more expensive with each passing year, that somewhere is now. Whether you like it or not.
It cost a lot of taxpayer money to come up with that car. And the sales figures have been disastrous.
We didn't bailout GM to produce $45k cars no one can afford to buy. My problem lies solely with the tens of billions we dumped into socializing a company that should have been taken out back and Old Yeller'd.
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It cost a lot of taxpayer money to come up with that car. And the sales figures have been disastrous.
We didn't bailout GM to produce $45k cars no one can afford to buy. My problem lies solely with the tens of billions we dumped into socializing a company that should have been taken out back and Old Yeller'd.
They could have sold everything except Corvette to someone else, I wouldn't care... Just as long as the "Corvette" got to remain... I wouldn't care if Corvette became it's own company with only 3 models... That would be fine.
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Didn't they have the volt pretty much designed and ready to go before the bailouts?
Here's one reason sales might not be all that great:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/0817/Chevy-Volt-price-gouging-Report-of-dealer-s-20-000-in-extra-charges
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Like 240 said this is a start of mass production of Electric vehicles. If a price comparison is made...One of the first real cars that was mass produced in a way (13) was the Duryea Motor Wagon in 1896. Cost was $2000.00
What cost $2000.00 in 1896 would cost $51,707.89 in 2010
So Electric cars will go down considerably in the years to come right off the line just like gasoline engines have.
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You're seeing the trees and missing the forest as well as plenty of other things. What other technology are you "all for"? It doesn't matter what is developed in a lab or tech center if it isn't attached to tires hitting the road. The Volt is an example of developing tech and putting it to practical use. You, as well as others, refuse to acknowledge the fact that this is a Gen1 car/tech and will only improve in range, price, availability and capability as the Gen2 and Gen3 hit the road. Look at the Gen1 Prius back in 1999 or so and the Gen3 Prius now. It's like this with all cars, why do you ignore this? There is def. some cognitive dissonance going on when this subject is being discussed.
This car and the tech it's based on was in development far before the bailouts and it was being tested in it's final stages when GM when through it's bankruptcy proceedings. Mules were on the road far, far before that. So the government didn't pour billion of taxpayer dollars into GM so they could produce the Volt.
And it's no shit-box:
http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://gm-volt.com/2011/04/14/chevrolet-volt-wins-sae-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/[/b]]http://www.theautonewsroom.com/hybrid-cars/chevrolet-volt-is-aei%E2%80%99s-best-engineered-vehicle-of-2011/ (http://[b)
You can use the "it's too expensive" argument all you want, an argument which I agree with at this stage, but the tech (which can be applied to any other platform which is another plus) will improve from here on out. This sort of thing has to start somewhere and with oil becoming scarce and more expensive with each passing year, that somewhere is now. Whether you like it or not.
I agree with your basic point of the importance of these new technologies, but let's not act as though this is some earth-shattering breakthrough. I think it's pushing 6 cents per mile with the Prius at 6.5 cents per mile or something (don't know the exact numbers, but the gap is hardly huge).
Also, how do you figure it wasn't taxpayer money? If they hadn't spent so much on technology and research, the taxpayer may never have had to bail them out. Probably doesn't break down cleanly, but you get the point.
And we should all reserve judgement on whether or not it's a shit box. GM doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation for quality. Nobody cares what a bunch of dinks "thinks" it's going to be like. What matters is how it actually holds up - and history suggests GM has a lot to prove.
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Like 240 said this is a start of mass production of Electric vehicles. If a price comparison is made...One of the first real cars that was mass produced in a way (13) was the Duryea Motor Wagon in 1896. Cost was $2000.00
What cost $2000.00 in 1896 would cost $51,707.89 in 2010
So Electric cars will go down considerably in the years to come right off the line just like gasoline engines have.
You can not compare the first cars to the cars of today's costs because of the advent the "Assembly Line" which made production much more efficient.
For instance, the model T was 300 dollars in 1927 and that would be about 3,000 dollars today.
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Didn't they have the volt pretty much designed and ready to go before the bailouts?
----------Yes
Here's one reason sales might not be all that great:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/0817/Chevy-Volt-price-gouging-Report-of-dealer-s-20-000-in-extra-charges
Don't bring facts into the debate.
Remember, Obama is on the assembly and was in the boardroom around 2004 when the Volt concept debuted. He was also on the R&D team for the software and battery engineering team when the first basic plans for the Volt were laid down around 2005.
And actually, from a technology point of view, software, battery, battery cooling sys., transmission and the electrical systems, the Volt is pretty groundbreaking. Esp. since it works so seamlessly. It isn't an apples to apples comparison with the Prius as they are two different drivetrains amongst other differences. The Volt eliminates range anxiety and allows most Americans to use the EV mode with little , if any, gasoline use. That's the point. And I also realize that it's expense, but the price will decline, and more importantly, the Volt technology (Voltec) will trickle down to other cars and platforms as well.
As for the tax payer funding "Argument" the burden of proof is on the accuser to prove the taxpayer funds from the bailout were directly involved with the R&D and other developments for the Volt. Now, it is true that GM received tax breaks to modernize its Hamtramck plant, that LG Chem received grants and GM had access to D.O.E. loans as part of a D.O.E. program. Are those federal funds/grants? Yes. But the difference is those funds/grants are available and have been granted to all automakers over the last several years.
-Facility expansion/equipment purchases are write-offs for all corporations.
-LG Chem received the same "support" that U.S. battery company's such as A123 and Cobasys do.
-The DOE loans were available to all automakers. Those receiving those loans were Ford, Toyota, Honda and GM.
---Now what we don't have is a smoking gun of Uncle Same handing a giant check to GM that had "To Build the Volt" written in the memo portion. And you won't find it because the car was pretty much finished before the automakers had their dog and pony show in D.C.
And I will agree that we will not know how durable the car is until a few years down the road. So we don't know if it will fall apart or be bulletproof.
Watch who killed the electric car. The battery companies were purchased and basically gutted.
It isn't as cut and dry that GM just killed the electric car for some nefarious purpose, but anyways, yeah...the oil was cheap and battery tech wasn't needed. Like I said earlier, the EV1 and all of it's battery patents were sold to Chevron and buried until 2013.
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Chevy Volt: Central Planning in Action ...at a loss of $45,550 per unit to taxpayers
Confounded Interest ^ | 28 May 2011
The Chevy Volt ...was $43,000. The dealership also gets a tax credits of $7,500 per Volt...
Will GM earn a profit on Volt sales ? ...
The Volt costs $81,000 to build per unit and has sold 493 units in April for a loss of $38,000 per unit, paid for by taxpayers ...
I would love it if the private sector developed a workable, cost effective electric car (even though we plug the car into a grid with power generated by coal burning plants). But the Volt seems like something directly out of the old Soviet Union where Stalin would order production of products, even if it made little or no sense.
The Volt picture on Chevy’s web site look cooler than it does in person, at least to me. I thought it was a $43,000 Malibu. (prices for the Malibu start at $21,000).
Central planners, PLEASE stop with the social and economic engineering. It never works and we get the failed Soviet Union as a result.
(Excerpt) Read more at confoundedinterest.wordp ress.com ...
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Yes the language in the article is inflammatory - but the numbers are pretty crazy no?
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Chevy Volt: Central Planning in Action ...at a loss of $45,550 per unit to taxpayers
Confounded Interest ^ | 28 May 2011
The Chevy Volt ...was $43,000. The dealership also gets a tax credits of $7,500 per Volt...
Will GM earn a profit on Volt sales ? ...
The Volt costs $81,000 to build per unit and has sold 493 units in April for a loss of $38,000 per unit, paid for by taxpayers ...
I would love it if the private sector developed a workable, cost effective electric car (even though we plug the car into a grid with power generated by coal burning plants). But the Volt seems like something directly out of the old Soviet Union where Stalin would order production of products, even if it made little or no sense.
The Volt picture on Chevy’s web site look cooler than it does in person, at least to me. I thought it was a $43,000 Malibu. (prices for the Malibu start at $21,000).
Central planners, PLEASE stop with the social and economic engineering. It never works and we get the failed Soviet Union as a result.
(Excerpt) Read more at confoundedinterest.wordp ress.com ...
________________________ ____
Yes the language in the article is inflammatory - but the numbers are pretty crazy no?
I'm gonna call bs... Need a little more proof of that. If I'm worng, I guess I eat it but that's not enough reference for the claims...
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I'm gonna call bs... Need a little more proof of that. If I'm worng, I guess I eat it but that's not enough reference for the claims...
I found this.
I do not know it's accuracy.
http://gm-volt.com/2010/11/26/report-each-volt-costs-40000-to-build/
In his new book called Overhaul, Steve Rattner who used to head the government’s auto task force, disclosed GMs cost to build the Volt. This is a closely guarded corporate secret that Rattner was privy to through his work to restructure GM though its bankruptcy.
Rattner is currently the subject of legal proceedings and despite the questionable ethics and behavior of doing so he wrote the following: “At least in the early years, each Volt would cost around $40,000 to manufacture (development costs not included).”
Rattner admitted in an interview with the New York Times that he “didn’t know the precise number,” but agreed that despite the costs, on developing the Volt GM was “right to do it,” to silence critics “who’ve said for many years that the company was behind the curve.”
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Some Volt dealers take tax credit for themselves
Limited supply of electric cars creates opportunity to 'game the system'
Below:
An enlarged label shows fuel economy information for a 2011 Chevrolet Volt. GM sold fewer than 500 Volts in May as it slowly ramps up production.
By Paul A. Eisenstein
msnbc.com contributor msnbc.com contributor
updated 6/2/2011 9:28:54 AM ET 2011-06-02T13:28:54
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43243050/ns/business-autos
/
Share Print Font: +-If you’re desperate to get yourself into a Chevrolet Volt you might make a visit to the Kia dealer in Glendale, Calif. Though most Chevy dealers in the seven initial launch markets for the plug-in hybrid claim to be on back order, three “used” Volts are sitting on the Kia dealer’s lot.
But don’t expect much of a bargain. True, the asking price of $39,995 is a modest discount off the $41,000 sticker price. But a salesman at the suburban Los Angeles showroom said he did not believe the three Volts would qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit allocated for buyers of new battery vehicles.
The salesman's comment suggests there is truth to reports that some dealers are gaming the system to claim battery car tax credits for themselves, as first reported by a conservative think tank called the National Legal and Policy Center.
“Many Volts with practically no miles on them are being sold as ‘used’ vehicles, enabling the dealerships to benefit from the $7,500 credit supplied by the American taxpayers on each car,” NLPC’s Mark Modica said in a blog post on the practice. “The process of titling the Volts technically makes the dealerships the first owners of the vehicles, which gives them the ability to claim the subsidies. The cars are then offered to retail customers as ‘used’ vehicles."
Modica, a former Saturn dealership manager, said in an interview he was reluctant to call the process a “scam,” preferring to describe it as “gaming the system.” Though it may technically be legal, “it is not right,” he said.
It is hard to say how many dealers have taken the tax credit rather than passing it on to consumers. Modica suggests the number could be in the dozens. A spokesman for General Motors acknowledged that it is happening but said the maker has only been able to track 10 instances.
“The notion that this is rampant is a misnomer,” said Robb Peterson, who handles public relations for the Volt.
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.Peterson stressed that in at least half of the cases the company is aware of, Chevy dealers in one of the launch markets — which include California, Texas and Michigan — sold a Volt to a dealer in a state where the vehicle will not be offered until later this year.
In one case an Atlanta dealer purchased a Volt from a Chevy store in New York and has been using the plug-in hybrid to demonstrate the technology to his customers, hoping to build demand once GM starts distributing Volts in Georgia. In that case the dealer who sold the Volt would clearly qualify for the tax credit, according to several sources.
But in the case of the Glendale dealer, the rules are a bit murkier.
A spokesman for the Internal Revenue Service declined to comment beyond pointing to the language of the tax code passed by Congress to help promote the sale of battery vehicles. According to Title 26 Section 30D, a vehicle qualifies for the credit when:
(a) The original use (of the vehicle) "commences with the taxpayer," or
(b) The vehicle "is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer and not for resale."
That would suggest the Glendale dealer would have to lease out the vehicles rather than sell them to qualify for the tax credit.
Peterson said GM “strongly discourages" dealers from the pocketing the tax credit on battery cars but added, “There’s nothing we can do. They’re independent franchisees.”
Is there something anyone can do? Consumers, of course, could simply looking elsewhere for a Volt that qualifies for a tax credit, especially if they’re willing to wait, though some early adopters are clearly desperate to get their hands on the plug-in hybrid.
Dealers are already making out well. Auto data tracking site TrueCar.com shows that the average buyer is shelling out $42,070 for a Volt, a solid grand over sticker.
Dealers are required by law to disclose whether a vehicle already has been titled or whether the tax credit already was applied for.
Still, consumers could inadvertently apply for a second tax credit on the same vehicle. Complicating matters, the federal form used to request the credit does not require a vehicle’s VIN, or vehicle identification number, something that would seemingly make such duplications difficult.
In fact, the Treasury's inspector general for tax administration revealed earlier this year that as much as $33 million in improper battery car tax credits had so far been claimed, as much as $7 million of that figure considered unrecoverable.
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.That is clearly worrisome, though it is debatable whether the “gaming” of credits for the Volt, as NLPC’s Modica puts it, should also be cause for concern. The center has taken an activist position in opposition to the 2009 federal bailouts of General Motors and Chrysler. And Modica lost his job when his Saturn dealership closed.
Those facts do not necessarily mean his report was unfairly biased. But he clearly has a thumbs-down attitude towards the Volt, insisting that “retail sales are dismal.”
It’s true that Chevy has been selling less than 500 Volts a month, fewer than half the number of Leaf battery-electric vehicles sold by rival Nissan. But GM has insisted all along that there would be a slow “ramp-up,” reflecting the complexity of the vehicle and the need to ensure both line workers and dealers can handle the new technology.
Paul Harriman, an Ann Arbor, Mich., artist and designer, had been told he wouldn’t be able to take delivery of a Volt until late 2012 or even 2013. But he is hoping that might be accelerated now that GM has announced plans to boost production after the factory in Detroit returns from its summer break.
The current production rate will triple to around 16,000 Volts annually, something that would seem unjustified if the pent-up demand wasn’t there, said several analysts.
At least initially, though the question is whether buyers will continue to wait in line longer-term — especially if dealers were to keep the tax credit for themselves.
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Good review.
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Good review.
well he's full of shit saying it's evolutionary to have an onboard generator to recharge the batteries... That's bullshit and Chevy didn't come up with that basic idea that's been around for a very fucking long time. It's like that company, is it toyota? that uses the breaking to charge and claiming that it's their revolutionary idea... That shit has been around for ages too, they didn't think it up.