Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: crownshep on June 29, 2011, 11:22:56 AM
-
Well,not in this video,granted he doesn`t look as big as i`ve seen him before,but he`s still a decent size,but he struggles with 2 and a half plates on incline and the dumbell presses are a waste of time.
-
bodybuilding has nothing to do with how much weight you lift
-
Victor who ?
-
How did he place?
-
bodybuilding has nothing to do with how much weight you lift
It only matters if you actually want to get bigger. If you want to do the same weight and stay the same size for years on end it doesn't matter.
-
It only matters if you actually want to get bigger. If you want to do the same weight and stay the same size for years on end it doesn't matter.
key post
it matters if you want hard dense muscle
-
Well,not in this video,granted he doesn`t look as big as i`ve seen him before,but he`s still a decent size,but he struggles with 2 and a half plates on incline and the dumbell presses are a waste of time.
All Drugs.
All Black Eye Peas and BBQ sauce
-
It only matters if you actually want to get bigger. If you want to do the same weight and stay the same size for years on end it doesn't matter.
Many other factors matter as well. I have seen a lot of strong guys look terrible.
-
bodybuilding has nothing to do with how much weight you lift
being huge and weak isn't very impressive. it just proves your muscle is all show.
-
Victor who ?
Blasphemy !!!!!
-
Many other factors matter as well. I have seen a lot of strong guys look terrible.
Of course, we're not talking in absolutes. But if you want to make continued progress in bbing you have to get stronger. Strength is not some attribute to be ignored.
-
Vicsulin.
-
Of course, we're not talking in absolutes. But if you want to make continued progress in bbing you have to get stronger. Strength is not some attribute to be ignored.
The reason I say that is there are limits on the amount of weight one can lift. Otherwise, we could all bench 1000 lbs. Even with steroids, there is a limit, for most, in terms of strength.
-
There's more than one way to travel from Los Angeles to New York....
-
There's more than one way to travel from Los Angeles to New York....
might as well do it in style
-
might as well do it in style
Might as well throw some barbells across the floor too, that's style, right?
-
It only matters if you actually want to get bigger. If you want to do the same weight and stay the same size for years on end it doesn't matter.
no it doesn't you can lift semi light, go for high reps, switch up some stuff, not lift too heavy, because in the end if you lift like an idiot like branch or ronnie you end up with permanent nerve damage. Bob Chic will tell you lifting heavy has nothing to do with bodybuilding, I think your thinking of power lifting.
Drugs play a much greater role in the bigger and harder look.
-
I love 80's clothing. Those fucking shorts are funny as hell :D
-
Those "dumbell presses" are pathetic.
-
Those "dumbell presses" are pathetic.
More pathetic than these?
:D :D
-
If your cock was as thick and black as his, you wouldn't care about lifting heavy either.
-
More pathetic than these?
:D :D
i think that was a good lift. no? ???
-
He also looks young there
-
no it doesn't you can lift semi light, go for high reps, switch up some stuff, not lift too heavy, because in the end if you lift like an idiot like branch or ronnie you end up with permanent nerve damage. Bob Chic will tell you lifting heavy has nothing to do with bodybuilding, I think your thinking of power lifting.
Drugs play a much greater role in the bigger and harder look.
So let me get this straight. You're using Ronnie Coleman (5'11 competed ripped in the 280's with the most pro wins of all time and 8 Mr. Olympias) and Branch Warren (5'7 250lbs contest and the recent winner of the Arnold classic) to discredit my point that strength plays a important role in bodybuilding. And you're using Bob Chic (6' 250's contest and only 1 pro win which was a masters show) to prove your point? That makes very little sense.
-
Victor who ?
It always cracked me how so many worshiped Vic Richards as the greatest thing in BB back in the 90's.
He never competed as a pro bodybuilder and was given his pro card when he won the IFBB Nigerian nationals ( true story).
-
More pathetic than these?
:D :D
He needs to be hit on the teeth..
-
It always cracked me how so many worshiped Vic Richards as the greatest thing in BB back in the 90's.
He never competed as a pro bodybuilder and was given his pro card when he won the IFBB Nigerian nationals ( true story).
This was the runner-up...
-
I saw Vic lifting a 30.000 calorie meal over his head - unbelievable strength.
-
I think its pathetic for a man that LEAN SIZE to lift that light...and no its not "muscle to mind connection" lol his reps are sloppy and hes struggling. all drugs and 30000 cals a day.
-
rWell,not in this video,granted he doesn`t look as big as i`ve seen him before,but he`s still a decent size,but he struggles with 2 and a half plates on incline and the dumbell presses are a waste of time.
The vid cuts while he is sitting at the incline, we have no idea If he went for more..
Also, like meso had said, he looks young, this is not the early to mid 90s monster, but a mid 80s bbing growing into the "legend".
-
If your cock was as thick and black as his, you wouldn't care about lifting heavy either.
Gayer than asking for directions
-
More pathetic than these?
:D :D
Good incline press, though he could've had a bit better ROM on that chest day. :D
-
no it doesn't you can lift semi light, go for high reps, switch up some stuff, not lift too heavy, because in the end if you lift like an idiot like branch or ronnie you end up with permanent nerve damage. Bob Chic will tell you lifting heavy has nothing to do with bodybuilding, I think your thinking of power lifting.
Drugs play a much greater role in the bigger and harder look.
A body trained on light weights will not look the same as one trained with heavy weights, you cannot get that powerful hulking looking physique without being strong regardless of how much drugs you take. You need to do more visual research.
-
A body trained on light weights will not look the same as one trained with heavy weights, you cannot get that powerful hulking looking physique without being strong regardless of how much drugs you take. You need to do more visual research.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahHahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha
-
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
???
::)
-
???
::)
SERIOUSLY Billy I know plently of thick mofos that lift light and if you saw them you would not be able to tell how "light" they lifted. Most people who see big guys who lift light somehow seem to convince themselves that their muscles look different.
-
SERIOUSLY Billy I know plently of thick mofos that lift light and if you saw them you would not be able to tell how "light" they lifted. Most people who see big guys who lift light somehow seem to convince themselves that their muscles look different.
bingo
Paul Dillet probably the best example...
it still amazes me that peoples mentality is stuck in the 1960's...
-
bingo
Paul Dillet probably the best example...
it still amazes me that peoples mentality is stuck in the 1960's...
"Paul Dillet probably the best example..."...Agreed
-
SERIOUSLY Billy I know plently of thick mofos that lift light and if you saw them you would not be able to tell how "light" they lifted. Most people who see big guys who lift light somehow seem to convince themselves that their muscles look different.
Could you list a few examples of these guys bodyweight and what type of workouts they do/weight they're lifting?
-
More pathetic than these?
:D :D
This guy must be in possession of one GIGANTIC COCK!
-
bingo
Paul Dillet probably the best example...
it still amazes me that peoples mentality is stuck in the 1960's...
Paul Dillet never had a powerful physique and had a skinny neck.
-
It always cracked me how so many worshiped Vic Richards as the greatest thing in BB back in the 90's.
He never competed as a pro bodybuilder and was given his pro card when he won the IFBB Nigerian nationals ( true story).
... I used to see him in person back then when he was at his biggest. Dude is no joke-and he is very strong. Whether he competed or not as a pro, he is still one of the most freakish guys I ever saw at Golds, or anywhere for that matter.
-
Dillet is probably the biggest genetic freak of all time. He's the exception not the rule.
-
IMO heavy is relative, a weight that is heavy for a person may not be for another and vice-versa. For development train in the 8-15 rep range in good form with weights that allow you to stimulate proper growth in that rep range. To say "heavy" weights produce a different look than "light" is stupid. Because what is heavy and what is light? It depends on the person.
-
Of course, we're not talking in absolutes. But if you want to make continued progress in bbing you have to get stronger. Strength is not some attribute to be ignored.
I think Fred Hatfield and the Westside Barbell company agree with this theory too...
-
It only matters if you actually want to get bigger. If you want to do the same weight and stay the same size for years on end it doesn't matter.
THIS IS INCORRECT.
you do not need progressively heavier weights to incur muscle growth.
-
THIS IS INCORRECT.
you do not need progressively heavier weights to incur muscle growth.
In my own experiences in natural bbing you do. How else are you supposed to put on muscle? Go and get a pump?
-
In my own experiences in natural bbing you do. How else are you supposed to put on muscle? Go and get a pump?
where did you say natural bodybuilding? you didnt. NOBODY in this thread was talking about natural bodybuilding. dont change the parameters to suit your needs now that you've been called on it.
-
All Black Eye Peas and BBQ sauce
the only vegetable ronnie eats is CORN.
-
even juiced bodybuilders need to get stronger. if they dont get stronger they dont grow (growing=getting stronger [a biggger muscle= a stronger muscle] ).
that being said, they dont actually have to train heavier necessarily if they are juiced to the max and have good genetic response. but most guys need to focus on slowly building up the weights over time, even on juice.
-
even juiced bodybuilders need to get stronger. if they dont get stronger they dont grow (growing=getting stronger [a biggger muscle= a stronger muscle] ).
that being said, they dont actually have to train heavier necessarily if they are juiced to the max and have good genetic response. but most guys need to focus on slowly building up the weights over time, even on juice.
you contradict yourself. either you have to lift heavier or you dont. quit straddling the fence and make a stand.
-
where did you say natural bodybuilding? you didnt. NOBODY in this thread was talking about natural bodybuilding. dont change the parameters to suit your needs now that you've been called on it.
Well that's what I do and know and the orginal debate was strengths role in bbing. I believe it has a place in bodybuilding of all kinds, especially natural bbing and is fairly important in putting on as much muscle as a body can hold. Ronnie coleman and dorian yates are probably the 2 best bodybuilders in the last 20 years and both were heavy trainers. You look at jonnie jackson's chest and back and you see the density. Its probably not good long term on your body, but i don't know how people can argue it doesn't put more muscle on your body then going and getting a pump.
-
To refute your anecdotal evidence re: Yates/Coleman/Jackson, consider these very successful pros who only "pump" in the gym:
Vince Taylor
Paul Dillett
Flex Wheeler
Serge Nubret
None of the above ever lifted to get stronger. None of the above really cared to get stronger. If they did, it was a by-product, if it happened at all.
There's more than just myofibrillar hypertrophy. There's sarcoplasmic too.
Furthermore, how does one differentiate between myofibrillar and sarcolemmal hypertrophy when one looks in the mirror? Answer: you can't.
You have no idea if you're carrying more muscle because you bulked up the cytoplasm or actually added myosin/actin filament size.
Plus, how do you know the strength will lead to growth? Strength on any exercise occurs primarily due to neural adaptations to the movement (i.e. ability to preferentially recruit the motor unit pools responsible for contractions). Has nothing to do with hypertrophy. It's why you can weight 135lbs and C&J over 300lbs.
No One is right on this one - strength and hypertrophy aren't tied at the hip. Though they are correlated in some instances, their is no proof that one cannot happen without the other. Therefore, it's tough to prove causation, as you would so like everyone to believe.
And furthermore, it has nothing to do with how much junk you're shooting. That only magnifies your genetic tendencies and alters phenotype...does not alter genotype.
good post.
-
To refute your anecdotal evidence re: Yates/Coleman/Jackson, consider these very successful pros who only "pump" in the gym:
Vince Taylor
Paul Dillett
Flex Wheeler
Serge Nubret
None of the above ever lifted to get stronger. None of the above really cared to get stronger. If they did, it was a by-product, if it happened at all.
There's more than just myofibrillar hypertrophy. There's sarcoplasmic too.
Furthermore, how does one differentiate between myofibrillar and sarcolemmal hypertrophy when one looks in the mirror? Answer: you can't.
You have no idea if you're carrying more muscle because you bulked up the cytoplasm or actually added myosin/actin filament size.
Plus, how do you know the strength will lead to growth? Strength on any exercise occurs primarily due to neural adaptations to the movement (i.e. ability to preferentially recruit the motor unit pools responsible for contractions). Has nothing to do with hypertrophy. It's why you can weight 135lbs and C&J over 300lbs.
No One is right on this one - strength and hypertrophy aren't tied at the hip. Though they are correlated in some instances, their is no proof that one cannot happen without the other. Therefore, it's tough to prove causation, as you would so like everyone to believe.
And furthermore, it has nothing to do with how much junk you're shooting. That only magnifies your genetic tendencies and alters phenotype...does not alter genotype.
none of those guys you mentioned
carried the muscle quality of say coleman...
they just looked well "pumped"
not hard and as dense as ronnie
-
Well,not in this video,granted he doesn`t look as big as i`ve seen him before,but he`s still a decent size,but he struggles with 2 and a half plates on incline and the dumbell presses are a waste of time.
Looks to me he didn't have much will or focus that day, it happens, as for weight used it depends on what your goal or style of training are.
-
none of those guys you mentioned
carried the muscle quality of say coleman...
they just looked well "pumped"
not hard and as dense as ronnie
Wheeler, Nubret and Taylor were always known for their struture, shape and other genetic qualities and not the amount of muscle they carried. I don't know how anyone can argue against that heavy weight puts the most muscle on. You can argue whether or not its "the best" way, because of injuries. But when you compare Yates, coleman, ruhl and those kinda guys to the vince taylors and flex wheelers it becomes obvious. Although I think when drugs get involved it becomes a little less neceassary, but still the best way to add muscle.
-
none of those guys you mentioned
carried the muscle quality of say coleman...
they just looked well "pumped"
not hard and as dense as ronnie
It produces a somewhat different look a little softer one, both training styles have value, i can say from my own experience with both styles that pumping workouts and i used Serge's style give me a more detailed look, separations and definition and more growth but my strength increase was minimum or none and i felt i lost some hardness, as of now i'm more in to strength mode still making muscle gains but not sculpting and improving on symmetry like on Serge's program, but weight lifted increased, hardness also, but il be back to more pumping training later, as always lifting heavy invites injuries.
-
Wheeler, Nubret and Taylor were always known for their struture, shape and other genetic qualities and not the amount of muscle they carried. I don't know how anyone can argue against that heavy weight puts the most muscle on. You can argue whether or not its "the best" way, because of injuries. But when you compare Yates, coleman, ruhl and those kinda guys to the vince taylors and flex wheelers it becomes obvious. Although I think when drugs get involved it becomes a little less neceassary, but still the best way to add muscle.
Nubret was known to lift heavy from time to time. Charles Glass had said he had to tell Flex not to lift so heavy...this was back in 93.
Yes, Ronnie got 8 Sandows, but he has torn muscles and a effed up back. Taylor still looks good with no major injuries that I know of.
-
Wheeler, Nubret and Taylor were always known for their struture, shape and other genetic qualities and not the amount of muscle they carried. I don't know how anyone can argue against that heavy weight puts the most muscle on. You can argue whether or not its "the best" way, because of injuries. But when you compare Yates, coleman, ruhl and those kinda guys to the vince taylors and flex wheelers it becomes obvious. Although I think when drugs get involved it becomes a little less neceassary, but still the best way to add muscle.
But what is heavy and what is light? Its all relative. Progressive overload puts on the most muscle, working on a proper rep range (8-15 imo) and with sufficient time under tension. Ever wonder why there are many guys out there who are very strong in low rep training, but have poor muscle development? And when drugs are entered it changes even more, as you see the guy who can press just as much as a pro, but has nowhere near the same development.
-
Nubret was known to lift heavy from time to time. Charles Glass had said he had to tell Flex not to lift so heavy...this was back in 93.
Yes, Ronnie got 8 Sandows, but he has torn muscles and a effed up back. Taylor still looks good with no major injuries that I know of.
....
injurries are inevitable....
anyway look at flex now..
ronnie looke 100 times better
-
But what is heavy and what is light? Its all relative. Progressive overload puts on the most muscle, working on a proper rep range (8-15 imo) and with sufficient time under tension. Ever wonder why there are many guys out there who are very strong in low rep training, but have poor muscle development? And when drugs are entered it changes even more, as you see the guy who can press just as much as a pro, but has nowhere near the same development.
That's because they lift low reps all the time. I'm defintely not advocating that. I just think power movements and low rep/strength days have their place in bodybuilding. I do a lot of 15-20 reps for legs.
-
....
injurries are inevitable....
anyway look at flex now..
ronnie looke 100 times better
Flex can wear a decent suit. Ronnie, well you know the deal. Plus, Ronnie either has to stay big for guest appearances or his supp line. Flex doesn't have to stay big. But, apparently, Flex did tear a bicep and a pec at one time...
-
flex looks like a mess... tris gnoe synthol biceps... thats it
nothing else to him
-
Hard training breaks down muscle tissue,proper nutrition and rest build it back up and repair it.
I think a person should train heavy for the amount of reps they are shooting for in a set, whether it be 3 reps or 20 reps,doesn`t matter.........it should be a challenge to eke out the last few reps or more,depending on the number of reps per set.
Try using Giant-Sets for an example..............4 exercises in a row with no rest between movements...........hard to do, and you won`t be able to use maximum poundages, but you will break down muscle tissue if you are pushing hard as you should be.
Break down tissue through hard training,not necessarily heavy training, as in trying to gain more power.
Eat,rest,recover,sleep = repair and hopefully growth.
-
This guy must be in possession of one GIGANTIC COCK!
-
Hard training breaks down muscle tissue,proper nutrition and rest build it back up and repair it.
I think a person should train heavy for the amount of reps they are shooting for in a set, whether it be 3 reps or 20 reps,doesn`t matter.........it should be a challenge to eke out the last few reps or more,depending on the number of reps per set.
i agree... this is the best way to build size and strength
-
Flex Wheeler routinely inclined 455 pounds
he also did incline db presses with 150-160 pounds
ask anyone that trained @ golds venice in the early to mid 90s
-
Flex Wheeler routinely inclined 455 pounds
he also did incline db presses with 150-160 pounds
ask anyone that trained @ golds venice in the early to mid 90s
Right Flex was motivated back in the day
-
....
injurries are inevitable....
anyway look at flex now..
ronnie looke 100 times better
Evitable actually. R.Robinson still kickin it. Strong as hell for his age and says - he hasn't had any major injuries..
-
Evitable actually. R.Robinson still kickin it. Strong as hell for his age and says - he hasn't had any major injuries..
;D
-
Geez, thanks man^^, I haven't had an idea Robby was on that show too!
-
V-Rich is strong as fuk in the COCK department.