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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: GroinkTropin on July 01, 2011, 10:58:57 PM

Title: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 01, 2011, 10:58:57 PM
D=M/V is a standard representation of the density (D) of a given substance.

In muscle terms, D=F*M/V

Simply put, the density of a given muscle is simply the amount of force a muscle can generate multiplied by the mass (weight) divided by the volume.

Meaning, simply, a stronger, heavier muscle occupying less space will be more dense.

If you increase the amount of weight a muscle can lift (with strict form) without increasing the volume of space it occupies, you will increase the density.

For example, a 21 inch biceps can curl, say, 50lbs, if you increase it's workload capacity to lifting 100lbs without an increase in size (still 21 inches) you will effectively increase the density.

For this reason strong bodybuilders are more dense than weaklings. Ronnie Coleman for example is much (MUCH) more dense than say, oh, Phil Heath.

You can give the ILLUSION of density with drugs, but it has a different look to it than the real deal, so to speak.

This also explains why it is important to increase strength along with size. If you can get bigger without getting stronger, you will LOSE density.

Some confuse muscle maturity with density and I believe this to be a mistake. Muscle maturity is simply a greater proliferation of motor units within the muscle I believe. It happens over time as you recruit motor units and over time they multiply in number, allowing you to recruit more muscle fibers in a given workload. For this reason VOLUME should be kept HIGH when you are starting out and gradually decreased as you get older.

You may look at Jay Cutler as a perfect example of this. He trains high volume and moderate intensity with moderate weight and while he is huge he is hardly dense and his muscles have not changed much in appearance over the years, though he has managed to steadily get bigger.

Branch Warren is a great example of density as proven with the above equation. He has a much smaller frame yet competes at the same weight as guys 5 inches taller. On top of that, he lifts much heavier weight. His muscles occupy LESS VOLUME and yet have more MASS and can move MORE weight than the taller guys, thus his muscles have MUCH MORE DENSITY.

Now, he has always been thick and dense, and I bet he has always been strong, which also proves (to a degree) my point that muscle maturity is NOT the same as muscle density.

Only posting this because I have seen the question posed before "how do you increase muscle density?" and I had never been able to accurately answer it. Now, you have an answer- combine periods of strength training (very low repetitions, around 4-8) with periods of growth training (8-14 reps for most exercises).

Also I believe it is important to use exercises for their best application. Deadlifts, squats should be kept low repetition (deads down to 2 reps, squats down to 4). An exercise like, say, cable crossovers should be used for 10-16 reps. Leg extensions 10-20 reps, while barbell rows 8-12 etc etc. You get the point, I hope.

Hope this helps.

MM
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: dyslexic on July 01, 2011, 11:09:29 PM
Cliffs?


Reading and comprehension skills at an all-time low this time of night...


Kind of "dense" I suppose...  maybe it's just the Ambien.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 01, 2011, 11:10:33 PM
trenbolona ace,,lots of it!

gh15 approved
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 01, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
trenbolona ace,,lots of it!

gh15 approved

Hmm I would have to agree to an extent. Tren has magical strength building properties, while not being the best for growth. I would say using it long term would increase density, as would halotestin, anavar, possibly winstrol.

Again ANYTHING that causes an increase in strength without increasing volume proportionately will increase muscle density.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 01, 2011, 11:24:13 PM
Cliffs?


Reading and comprehension skills at an all-time low this time of night...


Kind of "dense" I suppose...  maybe it's just the Ambien.

Basically if you increase the strength of a muscle without increasing the volume that the muscle occupies at a rate in proportion you will increase the density of that muscle.

Be big, but be STRONG, or you will look bloofy.

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: theheman on July 01, 2011, 11:29:10 PM
The body is a very complex system.  The cells in the body are a living substance that can alter themselves without scientific discretion.  Here's a cool book you should read The Secret Life of Your Cells by Robert Stone.  It's one of those whoo whoo books but it will alter your view of the world.  To simplify the process of the body by a physics formula is doing unjustice.  Unless you can communicate with your cells especially the muscles to continue spliting apart and growing your answer is to force them to grow by taking the advice of Mr. gh15.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 01, 2011, 11:33:38 PM
The body is a very complex system.  The cells in the body are a living substance that can alter themselves without scientific discretion.  Here's a cool book you should read The Secret Life of Your Cells by Robert Stone.  It's one of those whoo whoo books but it will alter your view of the world.  To simplify the process of the body by a physics formula is doing unjustice.  Unless you can communicate with your cells especially the muscles to continue spliting apart and growing your answer is to force them to grow by taking the advice of Mr. gh15.

My formula works, I challenge you to actually disprove it.

I get what you are saying, but density is a rather simple formula, what I did was alter is slightly to be applicable to the human body, and explain it in layman's terms.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: wes on July 02, 2011, 12:51:24 AM
I`m confused.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Meso_z on July 02, 2011, 12:59:49 AM
Good thread.

An example of zero density is Dillett, who happened t train light. His muscles were like marshmallows
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 02, 2011, 01:21:40 AM

Strength is not always related to "muscle" density.  It has a lot to do with your CNS, how your body is built...ie mechanical advantages, and many many other factors.  To say that because someone is stronger means they have "denser" muscles is hogwash.  If you compare a guy who is very short, to a guy who is tall, and they both have the same volume of muscle on their biceps, of course the shorter guy will be stronger because he has a "bigger" muscle proportionally than the taller guy.  It has nothing to do with the muscle fibers being any "denser".  It only has to deal with the fact that "proportionally" his bicep muscles are much much bigger than a taller man with the same volume of muscle fibers. 

Also, who says there is any difference between how "dense" a muscle is compared to another muscle?  Suppose you were to take a 1"x1"x1" cube of muscle from Ronnie's bicep, and the same size cube of muscle from Phil Heaths bicep.  Just because ronnie is stronger does not mean that the mass of his cube would be greater than phils.  Where has this ever been proven?  It's just assumption on your part that somehow ronnies muscles are more "dense".




"If you compare a guy who is very short, to a guy who is tall, and they both have the same volume of muscle on their biceps, of course the shorter guy will be stronger because he has a "bigger" muscle proportionally than the taller guy."

What? Of course the shorter guy will be stronger?

You seem to have issues digesting what you read...SO, essentially let me break this down for you. If a man who is 5ft5 is 250 lbs and has 4% bodyfat and 21 inch arms, and you take a man who is 5ft11 and weighs 250lbs has 4% bodyfat and 21 inch arms his musculature MUST be more dense. I mean, this is pretty damn simple, a shorter man who's muscles MUST occupy less volume by definition that a man 5 inches taller but who carries the same amount of muscle BY WEIGHT MUST have greater density to his muscle mass, it's directly proportional.

You do have a small point that motor unit recruitment and CNS stimulation can lead to strength gains, but they are only pieces of the pie. You can also train for both size and strength, the trick is to work for both. Otherwise you can be big and weak and bloofy or strong and small and a powerlifter or stength type athlete. You can definitely get stronger without getting bigger, and a quick look at some olympic lifters will show right away that they are in fact VERY dense, yet they are not that big. You can train for density through strength training and hypertrophy through bodybuilding training and go back and forth to do whatever your body needs at the time. Or concentrate on always getting stronger while you grow, whatever works.


If you take a 1/1/1 cube of Ronnie Colemans biceps and take the same size cube from Phil Heaths biceps, you should in theory see that Ronnie's sample will weigh more. I mean this is simple biology and some common sense as well.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 02, 2011, 01:29:14 AM
So where do Arnold, Zane, Franco, Lou, Haney or Serge fit in?  ::) ::)
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 02, 2011, 01:34:46 AM
So where do Arnold, Zane, Franco, Lou, Haney or Serge fit in?  ::) ::)

The stronger lifter (Franco) was much denser than the others, compare some photos for yourself.

Also not sure where that comment came from, I never said lifters today are denser than yesteryear....
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 02, 2011, 01:48:33 AM
The stronger lifter (Franco) was much denser than the others, compare some photos for yourself.

Also not sure where that comment came from, I never said lifters today are denser than yesteryear....

I just wanted to hear you opinion on those.  ;D
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: tbombz on July 02, 2011, 01:51:08 AM
To say that because someone is stronger means they have "denser" muscles is hogwash. 

no, your post is
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Meso_z on July 02, 2011, 02:04:41 AM
Says....who?  Because someone doesn't look dense, they magically arent dense?  No science to back up any of these ideas whatsoever.  See my above post. 

According to me.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: 99 Bananas on July 02, 2011, 02:05:19 AM
Wait a minute... You're asking people to prove you're wrong when you haven't even come close to proving you're right?
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 02, 2011, 02:06:11 AM
Wait a minute... You're asking people to prove you're wrong when you haven't even come close to proven you're right?

Wait until he turns pro naturally.  ::)
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 02, 2011, 02:11:32 AM
Wait a minute... You're asking people to prove you're wrong when you haven't even come close to proving you're right?

My theory is sound, disprove it.

There are tons of things we know to be true that can not be proven. Black holes can not be directly proven, though there is proof that they exist.

You can see some bodybuilders are visually more dense, and are ALWAYS stronger than less dense bodybuilders.

FInd me a bodybuilder who is fairly dense yet fairly weak and let's see whats what. Guaranteed you can not find one. Density and strength go hand in hand, the proof is right in front of your fucking face, has nothing to do with me proving it or not. It has been proven time and time again IN THE REAL WORLD.

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: 99 Bananas on July 02, 2011, 02:19:30 AM
My theory is sound, disprove it.

There are tons of things we know to be true that can not be proven. Black holes can not be directly proven, though there is proof that they exist.

What?! Sound is not the same as proven. You have absolute proof or you don't. You don't. You can't be called upon to prove a negative. What you just said about black holes makes no sense either.

Theory Law Abstract Concrete. Go over those words.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 02, 2011, 04:33:32 AM
trenbolona ace,,

you want to see density? you want the allllll muscle to stay and only the fat and water to go bye bye? you want the thickness to increase with the density to increase aka thickness from within to increase while bodyfat go down due to this increase....resulted in higher density?

T R E N B O L O N A A C E

no cardio needed either,, retard is the one who does cardio on legit trenbolona ace,, you go down to the 6% effortless

gh15 approved
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: jeremiah ulq on July 02, 2011, 04:45:28 AM
Gh15....What is your thought on Cypionate (200 mg. per cc) as far as a weekly dosage with Tren Ace at 75 ed ?  I have access to this cheap whereas I'm having difficulty finding Prop. (Bloodwork will be in on Wed. and beginning Mutation next week)
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: The RedMeatKid on July 02, 2011, 05:35:14 AM
Great post, mm. I've noticed from time to time that a lean powerlifter can look more impressive than some of these so called mass monster bodybuilders. Interesting to see gh15 malfunction here and be unable to cope with the subject of biomechanics. Good stuff.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: muscularny on July 02, 2011, 08:27:01 AM
trenbolona ace,,

you want to see density? you want the allllll muscle to stay and only the fat and water to go bye bye? you want the thickness to increase with the density to increase aka thickness from within to increase while bodyfat go down due to this increase....resulted in higher density?

T R E N B O L O N A A C E

no cardio needed either,, retard is the one who does cardio on legit trenbolona ace,, you go down to the 6% effortless

gh15 approved
be honest, dont you wish you knew this when you where competing?

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: YoungBlood on July 02, 2011, 08:47:01 AM
My formula works, I challenge you to actually disprove it.

I get what you are saying, but density is a rather simple formula, what I did was alter is slightly to be applicable to the human body, and explain it in layman's terms.

"Your formula" as you put it, has been written about years ago by some unknown fellers named Dr Squat, Charles Poliquin and others like Ian King. Just as you said it too.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 02, 2011, 10:13:09 AM
"Your formula" as you put it, has been written about years ago by some unknown fellers named Dr Squat, Charles Poliquin and others like Ian King. Just as you said it too.

Well good shit then. Honestly I read a thread on here a while back and I remember someone asking how do you increase density? I couldn't answer, I think I said do low reps or something similar. I like being able to give accurate answers to questions like that.

I haven't read anything by the guys you mentioned, although I have definitely heard of them. Being science minded has not always been my thing, I was more or less your typical "dumb" bodybuilder most of my life. I decided to get a degree, and now I am actually learning useful and important things :)
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: tbombz on July 02, 2011, 10:20:28 AM
but is there any proof that individuals can alter their muscle density, or that individuals can have varying degrees of muscle density?

maybe human muscle tissue is made up of x units protein+y units water+z units other stuff in exactly the same proportion always.

if a muscles strength is equal to its cross sectional area.. then density would be unrelated to strength..





these things being said, i do agree with the idea, i was just pointing out some logical hhurdles u may need to think thru if u want to keep telling people about this
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: tbombz on July 02, 2011, 10:36:49 AM
your both making errors in your logic
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 02, 2011, 12:59:14 PM
your both making errors in your logic

Makes for interesting discussion at least. I suppose I could troll around and throw out "religion of peace  ::)" every chance I get, and flame people when they post pictures, call bodybuilding gay on a bodybuilding forum etc etc.

No, you do not do these things, I was just making a point.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Parker on July 02, 2011, 01:40:43 PM
Good thread.

An example of zero density is Dillett, who happened t train light. His muscles were like marshmallows
In that "flat biceps" vid, his muscles looked like they had "density".
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on July 02, 2011, 01:45:20 PM
This thread should be renamed "Stool Viscosity..... How do you increase it?"
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 02, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Yeah increasing the quality of the muscle and making it stronger without making it bigger is muscle density, thats why some bodybuilders look heavier than they really are. Its like comparing a piece of oak wood to a piece of balsam thats the same size.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 02, 2011, 05:36:35 PM
Great post, mm. I've noticed from time to time that a lean powerlifter can look more impressive than some of these so called mass monster bodybuilders. Interesting to see gh15 malfunction here and be unable to cope with the subject of biomechanics. Good stuff.

funny lol
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 02, 2011, 05:37:36 PM
be honest, dont you wish you knew this when you where competing?



funnier,, lol
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 02, 2011, 05:42:50 PM
Gh15....What is your thought on Cypionate (200 mg. per cc) as far as a weekly dosage with Tren Ace at 75 ed ?  I have access to this cheap whereas I'm having difficulty finding Prop. (Bloodwork will be in on Wed. and beginning Mutation next week)

at your level its ok ,,id go higher on trenbolona ,,problem is cypionat is bunk many times unles you get from pharma ,, as long as you can get legit long ester youll be fine

gh15 approved
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: flinstones1 on July 02, 2011, 06:31:29 PM
Great post, mm. I've noticed from time to time that a lean powerlifter can look more impressive than some of these so called mass monster bodybuilders. Interesting to see gh15 malfunction here and be unable to cope with the subject of biomechanics. Good stuff.

fuck off bitch. Go back to intensemuscle with your phaggots in fairy land
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: dyslexic on July 02, 2011, 06:58:59 PM
Basically if you increase the strength of a muscle without increasing the volume that the muscle occupies at a rate in proportion you will increase the density of that muscle.

Be big, but be STRONG, or you will look bloofy.




I love that word "bloofy" - was that an original Gh15 invention?
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: jeremiah ulq on July 02, 2011, 07:12:13 PM
It is Watson (Cyp) from the Pharmacy.....Will have Enanthate (Galenika) next week....which would be preferable?

So far:

Gh-5 IU 5days a week (Pharma)
Tren Ace 75 (?) 100 ed (Good friend makes very pure)
Cyp or Depot (both Pharma) 2 cc  (400 wk)on Cyp or 500 on Galenika ?
Insulin 10 morning...15 post training
ECA 3x daily

Been holding 7% at 250...no injectables for 4 weeks nor 50 mg. D-bol for 2 weeks

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Meso_z on July 02, 2011, 10:22:20 PM
Lots of scientists in this thread. im out.  ::)
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 03, 2011, 12:50:31 AM
"bro logic" above ^


Most power lifters are extremely good at certain lifts at low body weights due to neuromuscular adaptations and CNS adaptations.  NOT because they have "denser" muscles. 

To try to give you a simple example so you understand part of what I mean....Let's say you were to get a crack in your windshield.  Most people know that the path it takes as it continues to spread will follow the path of "least resistance".  neuromuscular adaptation works in much the same way.  the body "fine" tunes the movement along the path of least resistance expending as few resources as possible in doing so.  The more you practice the movement, the more the body will adapt to the movement finding ways to make it easier without necessarily gaining new muscle. 



 not trying to pretend to be a scientist like most on here.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: 20inch calves on July 03, 2011, 01:26:36 AM
Makes for interesting discussion at least. I suppose I could troll around and throw out "religion of peace  ::)" every chance I get, and flame people when they post pictures, call bodybuilding gay on a bodybuilding forum etc etc.

No, you do not do these things, I was just making a point.


this is a very interesting topic to discuss. you make some really good points.  i was saying this about the thread about squatting. when some does alot of heavy squatting they just have a certain look.. i suppose density...more then someone that doesn't. i will repeat myself in this thread. i think you can see the density on someone that squats heavy..especially at local shows...when the difference isn't about how many drugs someone's on
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 03, 2011, 02:52:54 AM
this is all you need to remember friends,,bodybuild is not rocket science,, but i will still lay it out for you

trenbolona ace after prolonged usage will give you more density via increase of lean muscle while reduction of bodyfat occure,, it will thicken your lean muscle from within and with hgh shrink wrap your skin to it ...creating enhaned density aka more dense look ,,

now this part is important! follow up

the moment your density is increased something else happen to your body,, YOUR SHOULDERS APPEAR NARROWER AS IN LESS WIDE! it is not that you lost size...your muscle diameter is actualy bigger,, if you mesure it you will see and ofcourse less water more lean muscle = better physiqe and larger physiqe,,dont let this psycology of illusion hurt your bodybuild,, it is due to water and bodyfat decrease and thickness and denisity increase from within muscle and replace the wwater and fat that is between muscle and skin... this is why you come to me every monday and thursday asking but but but is this fella have seo in delts?? well not all some ,, but mainly we use insulina and hgh to create more width when we get to have enough density and thickness from front to back,,

the body works in cycles... its either work on width or on thickness,, it doesnt usualy work on both at the same time! ,,it depends mainly on the drugs we use ,,the doses and the combinations

when you see bodybuild that is very wide ...it is a bodybuild that use insulina and gh and already got to be very thick and dense  from front to back that what left is only to increase width of delts and overall volume of physiqe ,,this is also when mutation goes info full force......this happen with insulina and hgh or/and  with seo...notice what happen to philsulina when went on high dose insulina and hgh...he wsalready thick and dense from front to back... what was missing on his was widthhhhhh and tight widness as i call it ,, i call it polished width ,, and he got it due to the addition of insulina and hgh at high doses...  smae for many other like mike dugdildo etc ,,

gh15 approved

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: oderus on July 03, 2011, 03:01:39 AM
gh15 what is this guy on ?
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 03, 2011, 03:08:07 AM
halo ,, test propioneta ,,maybe low dose hgh,,

his physiqe can be achieved with halo and only halo ,,but he has test propioneta in too

gh15 approved
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: oderus on July 03, 2011, 03:11:10 AM
halo ,, test propioneta ,,maybe low dose hgh,,

his physiqe can be achieved with halo and only halo ,,but he has test propioneta in too

gh15 approved
what kind of halo dosage are we talkin here
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 03, 2011, 03:17:22 AM
legit halo 20-40mg a day

propioneta 50-100mg every 1-2 days

hgh 4-6 iu a day

may use anadrola too need to see his along the year in bigger pictures,, may used other drugs too ,, i go by one picture here

gh15 approved

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: oderus on July 03, 2011, 03:20:53 AM
legit halo 20-40mg a day

propioneta 50-100mg every 1-2 days

hgh 4-6 iu a day

may use anadrola too need to see his along the year in bigger pictures,, may used other drugs too ,, i go by one picture here

gh15 approved


right clock  then press view image
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: gh15 on July 03, 2011, 03:26:45 AM
yes its mainly halo and propioneta,,thats his main products,, npp and hgh maybe in too androla maybe too but the bread and butter of him as a fighter or boxer or whatever he is ..is short ester testosterona and halotestin

gh15 approved
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Jaime on July 03, 2011, 06:24:18 AM

Strength is not always related to "muscle" density.  It has a lot to do with your CNS, how your body is built...ie mechanical advantages, and many many other factors.  To say that because someone is stronger means they have "denser" muscles is hogwash.  If you compare a guy who is very short, to a guy who is tall, and they both have the same volume of muscle on their biceps, of course the shorter guy will be stronger because he has a "bigger" muscle proportionally than the taller guy.  It has nothing to do with the muscle fibers being any "denser".  It only has to deal with the fact that "proportionally" his bicep muscles are much much bigger than a taller man with the same volume of muscle fibers. 

Also, who says there is any difference between how "dense" a muscle is compared to another muscle?  Suppose you were to take a 1"x1"x1" cube of muscle from Ronnie's bicep, and the same size cube of muscle from Phil Heaths bicep.  Just because ronnie is stronger does not mean that the mass of his cube would be greater than phils.  Where has this ever been proven?  It's just assumption on your part that somehow ronnies muscles are more "dense".




That's a complete contradiction.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: JP_RC on July 03, 2011, 09:03:29 AM
Genetics
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 04, 2011, 03:33:59 PM
wasn't knocking you, was just refuting your argument because it wasnt very logical.  no need to get touchy.

Was a broad statement. Dense muscle is def heavier than 'softer' muscle, and I notice alot of guys who have been training for years and have real solid builds look way heavier than they really are because of the quality of the muscle they have.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 04, 2011, 05:11:22 PM
Looking way heavier is diff than being heavier.  That's the whole point of this discussion.  No "proof" that a muscle is "denser" than another muscle.  Just assumptions...  Who knows, you could be right, but saying "it looks heavier" means nothing. 

Your right but it just seems like the guys that have strong quality builds always look heavier than they really are, and the inflated weakling juiceheads look lighter than they really are. No precision scientific proof just observation. Many factors could contribute to that, could even be colon build up for all I know.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: flinstones1 on July 05, 2011, 06:21:53 PM
look at Kevin. 500 raw bench an 400 behind the neck press and 100lb db curls. Look at the density of that guy's shoulders, triceps, etc. Deepest muscle bellies ever.

 If you plan on using insulin, you better train fucking heavy or you will be fucked.. good thread btw, made me rethink some of the stuff I have been doing.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Hulkotron on July 05, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
Dj181 was on his way to cracking this case when Groink ran him off the boards.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on July 05, 2011, 10:44:32 PM
this is all you need to remember friends,,bodybuild is not rocket science,, but i will still lay it out for you

trenbolona ace after prolonged usage will give you more density via increase of lean muscle while reduction of bodyfat occure,, it will thicken your lean muscle from within and with hgh shrink wrap your skin to it ...creating enhaned density aka more dense look ,,

now this part is important! follow up

the moment your density is increased something else happen to your body,, YOUR SHOULDERS APPEAR NARROWER AS IN LESS WIDE! it is not that you lost size...your muscle diameter is actualy bigger,, if you mesure it you will see and ofcourse less water more lean muscle = better physiqe and larger physiqe,,dont let this psycology of illusion hurt your bodybuild,, it is due to water and bodyfat decrease and thickness and denisity increase from within muscle and replace the wwater and fat that is between muscle and skin... this is why you come to me every monday and thursday asking but but but is this fella have seo in delts?? well not all some ,, but mainly we use insulina and hgh to create more width when we get to have enough density and thickness from front to back,,

the body works in cycles... its either work on width or on thickness,, it doesnt usualy work on both at the same time! ,,it depends mainly on the drugs we use ,,the doses and the combinations

when you see bodybuild that is very wide ...it is a bodybuild that use insulina and gh and already got to be very thick and dense  from front to back that what left is only to increase width of delts and overall volume of physiqe ,,this is also when mutation goes info full force......this happen with insulina and hgh or/and  with seo...notice what happen to philsulina when went on high dose insulina and hgh...he wsalready thick and dense from front to back... what was missing on his was widthhhhhh and tight widness as i call it ,, i call it polished width ,, and he got it due to the addition of insulina and hgh at high doses...  smae for many other like mike dugdildo etc ,,

gh15 approved


you make no sense to me here bc you say phil heath has zero width but is all insulin which you say here gives you width. ???
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 05, 2011, 10:47:24 PM
Dj181 was on his way to cracking this case when Groink ran him off the boards.

Now that you say it, i didn't even realize the idiot is gone.

Guess "Team Twink" has left getbig, i don't see Blackfag and Cocklength post here anymore as well.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: 20inch calves on July 05, 2011, 11:31:56 PM
you make no sense to me here bc you say phil heath has zero width but is all insulin which you say here gives you width. ???


not true. phil has width..as far as muscle width, genetically he has narrow clavicles..big difference. he has maxed out his width in other words because his bone structure won't allow him to get any wider

look at this way...nobody will say that heath has weak side front delts..but they will say he is narrow
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Hulkotron on July 06, 2011, 04:19:42 PM
Now that you say it, i didn't even realize the idiot is gone.

Guess "Team Twink" has left getbig, i don't see Blackfag and Cocklength post here anymore as well.

Yes he is allegedly on a two-week vacation with a "lady friend".
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 07, 2011, 04:32:59 AM
Yes he is allegedly on a two-week vacation with a "lady friend".

Oh, he went on vacation with Blackfag? Nice.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: dj181 on July 07, 2011, 04:57:20 AM
Oh, he went on vacation with Blackfag? Nice.

lol

By the way, I was wrong about this 1 set til failure AJ/Mentzer stuff, and I fully admit it. Exetended hard work al a Vince Gironda's 8*8 works much better for muscle condtioning in my experience. Again this is what has/is working for me, so I can't speak for everyone else.

And as far as the thread's topic, muscle density, well I can only say what I've read from Hatfield's work and what another pretty knowledgable fella told me, and that is to perform multiple sets using a very heavy weight within the 4-6 rep range, and to keep consistant tension on the muscle while performing the reps very smoothly lifting the weight under control at all times, not throwing it on the way up, or dropping it on the way down.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: JP_RC on July 07, 2011, 06:58:51 AM
lol

By the way, I was wrong about this 1 set til failure AJ/Mentzer stuff, and I fully admit it. Exetended hard work al a Vince Gironda's 8*8 works much better for muscle condtioning in my experience. Again this is what has/is working for me, so I can't speak for everyone else.

And as far as the thread's topic, muscle density, well I can only say what I've read from Hatfield's work and what another pretty knowledgable fella told me, and that is to perform multiple sets using a very heavy weight within the 4-6 rep range, and to keep consistant tension on the muscle while performing the reps very smoothly lifting the weight under control at all times, not throwing it on the way up, or dropping it on the way down.

You change your 'opinion' of things every 5 minutes it seems.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 08, 2011, 01:01:08 AM
You change your 'opinion' of things every 5 minutes it seems.

And he's not shy to admit his failures...  :o :o
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: WillGrant on July 08, 2011, 04:54:08 AM
Where's mental mike gone  ???
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: DK II on July 08, 2011, 05:14:39 AM
Where's mental mike gone  ???

Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: WillGrant on July 08, 2011, 05:15:19 AM

haha  ;D
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 08, 2011, 06:55:34 AM
intensity builds density
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: GroinkTropin on July 08, 2011, 04:39:19 PM
I am around. I am fine with flaming and hating, you guys are all free to say what you will about me, but I am NOT ok with censoring what I say. The moderators here blatantly delete threads and posts, randomly (secretly) change thread titles and edit posts. Why you ask?

Well, going through some of my threads and posts, they tend to keep what makes the site look "good" and delete what makes it look "bad". Obviously they know a lot of people come and go, so they keep what they think will benefit the site. All the while they do so without ever clearly explaining what, if any, rules there are here and really just doing as they please. Getbig will not be around forever with that kind of bullshit. I will post here and there, when it moves me to do so, but I really hate that the site wants to keep whatever will benefit it yet disregard anything else, whether it benefits US or not.

That is not a wise business move Ron. Keeping people happy is part of what makes a business successful, not just keeping YOURSELF happy...
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 08, 2011, 06:39:50 PM
intensity builds density

I like that theory, but you need verified scientific evidence backed by wilki research on this site or everyone will call you a 'bro' scientist.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Natural Man on July 09, 2011, 11:12:24 AM
I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?


STEROIDS AND HGH.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 09, 2011, 04:24:28 PM
::)


You dont need wiki to be logical....


Strong quality builds would be Heavier than they look if your theory was true....NOT lighter as you stated above.

And "all drugs" builds would be Lighter than they look if your theory was true....NOT heavier as you stated above.


Even this "method" of determining density is flawed though, bc u are comparing bodyweights and not the actual density of a given muscle.  BRO....

I was being sarcastic for fuck sakes, and I said I agree with that theory. Density is from years of heavy weights in the 6-8 rep range and maximum intensity, creating tough dense strong muscle.

I just meant that alot of people on here want scientific proof for every little thing on here.
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Hulkotron on July 10, 2011, 06:07:47 AM
What if I use the 7-9 rep range ???  Can I still get the densities?
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: Meso_z on July 10, 2011, 06:24:35 AM
What if I use the 7-9 rep range ???  Can I still get the densities?
:D ;D
Title: Re: I found a solution to: What is muscle density, how do you increase it?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on July 10, 2011, 09:20:55 AM
What if I use the 7-9 rep range ???  Can I still get the densities?

 >:(