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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: MCWAY on July 07, 2011, 08:10:05 AM
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The College Scam
By John Stossel
What do Michael Dell, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Mark Cuban have in common?
They're all college dropouts.
Richard Branson, Simon Cowell and Peter Jennings have in common?
They never went to college at all.
But today all kids are told: To succeed, you must go to college.
Hillary Clinton tells students: "Graduates from four-year colleges earn nearly twice as much as high school graduates, an estimated $1 million more."
We hear that from people who run colleges. And it's true. But it leaves out some important facts
That's why I say: For many people, college is a scam.
I spoke with Richard Vedder, author of "Going Broke by Degree: Why College Costs Too Much," and Naomi Schafer Riley, who just published "Faculty Lounges and Other Reasons Why You Won't Get the College Education You Paid For."
Vedder explained why that million-dollar comparison is ridiculous:
"People that go to college are different kind of people ... (more) disciplined ... smarter. They did better in high school."
They would have made more money even if they never went to college.
Riley says some college students don't get what they pay for because their professors have little incentive to teach.
"You think you're paying for them to be in the classroom with you, but every hour a professor spends in the classroom, he gets paid less. The incentives are all for more research."
The research is often on obscure topics for journals nobody reads......
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/07/06/the_college_scam_110470.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/07/06/the_college_scam_110470.html)
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Depends on why you go to college in the first place. College graduates still earn more on average than high school alone graduates.
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Sure, but do they make enough more to justify the massive amount of debt accumulated in student loans?
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Sure, but do they make enough more to justify the massive amount of debt accumulated in student loans?
It all comes down to why you went in the first place. If it's purely economical i think it would be fair to say the likelihood of you being able to pay off the loans, get a better job and enjoy a better lifestyle would all go in favor of the college graduate the majority of the time.
If it's because you have a passion for a subject and are looking to acquire more knowledge then the debt is of little relevance.
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Subsidized student loans is part of the reason why college is so expensive.
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It all comes down to why you went in the first place. If it's purely economical i think it would be fair to say the likelihood of you being able to pay off the loans, get a better job and enjoy a better lifestyle would all go in favor of the college graduate the majority of the time.
If it's because you have a passion for a subject and are looking to acquire more knowledge then the debt is of little relevance.
you're missing a major point dealing with the overwhelming pressure from all sides to go to college. You say it comes down to why they went in the first place. Well I'll ask how many didn't think there was any other option but... and that's what this is dealing with.
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Subsidized student loans is part of the reason why college is so expensive.
I think stossel has also talked about that if I remember right.
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Haha Stossel is such a fucking bag of dicks sometimes. Seriously...........yeah ok.........those 4 people represent what.....0.0000004% of the population. so everyone that doesn't go to college is going to be the next world's richest billionaire? Gimme a break. College isn't for everyone. But it is necessary for a good majority of the population to get their foot into the workdoor of corporate America. The problem is there are just not any jobs worth shit anymore. The US economy has been destroyed and plundered for the last 50 years. Those that didn't go to college back in the day could have a good solid middle class lifestyle doing blue collar work. Not those jobs have either left the country or are being done by mexicans with a 4th grade education.
Corporate America needs to take more responsibility and more accountability in bringing jobs back to the American people and taking pressure off the racket that is college. They need to do more to hire people that are well qualified but don't have that piece of paper and they need to do more to train people. Bottomline these corporations are walking away with billions and shitting on the American worker. It's time they own up and give back to the American economy who made them filthy rich.
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Haha Stossel is such a fucking bag of dicks sometimes. Seriously...........yeah ok.........those 4 people represent what.....0.0000004% of the population. so everyone that doesn't go to college is going to be the next world's richest billionaire? Gimme a break. College isn't for everyone. But it is necessary for a good majority of the population to get their foot into the workdoor of corporate America. The problem is there are just not any jobs worth shit anymore. The US economy has been destroyed and plundered for the last 50 years. Those that didn't go to college back in the day could have a good solid middle class lifestyle doing blue collar work. Not those jobs have either left the country or are being done by mexicans with a 4th grade education.
Corporate America needs to take more responsibility and more accountability in bringing jobs back to the American people and taking pressure off the racket that is college. They need to do more to hire people that are well qualified but don't have that piece of paper and they need to do more to train people. Bottomline these corporations are walking away with billions and shitting on the American worker. It's time they own up and give back to the American economy who made them filthy rich.
Did you go to nursing college?
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Did you go to nursing college?
Yes I went to nursing school and paid for every cent of it through my own hard work and determination. Nursing is a niche field. It's a glorified technical job so to speak. It requires a license, a good amount of technical skill and knowledge along with a college education yet you are paid hourly and treated pretty much like a skilled tradesman instead of a white collar professional. It's hard to explain. Nurses make good money. It used to be a great career but now it is becoming saturated with new graduates and everyone is flocking to the profession. Pay will come down a lot in the next 10 years. Nursing pays the bills and I love having 4 days off a week. But I'd never recommend anyone go into it and I'm out as soon as I can get something else lined up. All the bullshit jokes and criticism aside like wiping old man's ass etc.......nursing is a tough job and you gotta be stupid to go into it and deal with the shit you deal with. But it's not just nursing it's healthcare in general. Even MD's are getting fed up and leaving in droves. They are all overworked, overstressed and living a very poor quality of life........and those are the ones that still manage to make good money.
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Yes it's worth it. It not only increases your earning potential, it changes the way you think, and usually makes you smarter.
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Yes it's worth it. It not only increases your earning potential, it changes the way you think, and usually makes you smarter.
No way. Every dumbass and their brother goes to college nowadays. Your average college student is so dumbed down it's pathetic. That's what college used to be about. But even in the last 20 years college has changed big time. The college graduates I see and talk to nowadays are so limited in their ability to understand the world, government, monetary policy, history, and basic math and science. In many cases college makes you dumber. Some of the most intelligent people I know are people that read and study and learn on their own. Just look at all the college athletes. College standars have dropped significantly. But what other American standards haven't. It's sad really.
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No way. Every dumbass and their brother goes to college nowadays. Your average college student is so dumbed down it's pathetic. That's what college used to be about. But even in the last 20 years college has changed big time. The college graduates I see and talk to nowadays are so limited in their ability to understand the world, government, monetary policy, history, and basic math and science. In many cases college makes you dumber. Some of the most intelligent people I know are people that read and study and learn on their own. Just look at all the college athletes. College standars have dropped significantly. But what other American standards haven't. It's sad really.
I think the person who graduates from college and is dumber than when they started is pretty rare. A college graduate isn't necessarily a "smart" person once he or she has graduated, but they are almost always "smarter" than when they started. They're usually able to communicate better. They qualify for better jobs. They're able to think critically better than when they started.
Is this always the case? No. But most often it is. And it's hard to argue with the earning potential.
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Here's the rest of the article:
Also, lots of people not suited for higher education get pushed into it. This doesn't do them good. They feel like failures when they don't graduate. Vedder said two out of five students entering four-year programs don't have a bachelor's degree after year six.
"Why do colleges accept (these students) in the first place?"
Because money comes with the student -- usually government-guaranteed loans.
"There are 80,000 bartenders in the United States with bachelor's degrees," Vedder said. He says that 17 percent of baggage porters and bellhops have a college degree, 15 percent of taxi and limo drivers. It's hard to pay off student loans with jobs like those. These days, many students graduate with big debts.
Entrepreneur Peter Thiel, who got rich helping to build good things like PayPal and Facebook, is so eager to wake people up to alternatives to college that he's paying students $100,000 each if they drop out of college and do something else, like start a business.
"We're asking nothing in return other than meetings so we make sure (they) work hard, and not be in school for two years," said Jim O'Neill, who runs the foundation.
For some reason, this upsets the left. A Slate.com writer called Thiel's grant a "nasty idea" that leads students into "halting their intellectual development ... maintaining a narrow-minded focus on getting rich."
But Darren Zhu, a grant winner who quit Yale for the $100,000, told me, "Building a start-up and learning the sort of hardships that are associated with building a company is a much better education path."
I agree. Much better. Zhu plans to start a biotech company.
What puzzles is me is why the market doesn't punish colleges that don't serve their customers well. The opposite has happened: Tuitions have risen four times faster than inflation.
"There's a lot of bad information out there," Vedder replied. "We don't know ... if (students) learned anything" during their college years.
"Do kids learn anything at Harvard? People at Harvard tell us they do. ... They were bright when they entered Harvard, but do ... seniors know more than freshman? The literacy rate among college graduates is lower today than it was 15 or 20 year ago. It is kind of hard for people to respond in market fashion when you don't have full information."
Despite the scam, the Obama administration plans to increase the number of students getting Pell grants by 50 percent. And even a darling of conservatives, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, says college is a must: "Graduating from high school is just the first step."
We need to wake people up.
I see the point that Stossel and Thiel are trying to make. It's like Lebron James, leaving high school and going straight to the NBA. If you can make hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars immediately or fairly quickly, why waste time with college? You can always go to college, AFTER you get that money.
At the same time, if you can afford it and can go get your college degree after high school, I'd say go for it.
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I think the person who graduates from college and is dumber than when they started is pretty rare. A college graduate isn't necessarily a "smart" person once he or she has graduated, but they are almost always "smarter" than when they started. They're usually able to communicate better. They qualify for better jobs. They're able to think critically better than when they started.
Is this always the case? No. But most often it is. And it's hard to argue with the earning potential.
Yeah but that's my point. What earning potential? Most of the corporate jobs 99% of the people do out there don't need a college degree. I had plenty of corporate jobs in my life and I could have done them all with my eyes closed.....even the couple of management jobs I had. Corporate America and the college industry have created this artificial market where the demand and earning potential for all these so called "degree" necessary jobs is nothing but a house of cards. And it's imploding as we speak. That's why there are so many college degreed out of work Americans chasing too few jobs. I think Americans in general are just fucking dumb. Even the college educated ones......well maybe they aren't dumb but they are just uninformed. Spoon feed whatever the media, and their government feeds them. College kids are nothing but groomed corporate lackeys.... not all but many...they will make great corporate employees but thinkign outside the box? No way.
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Plus the first 2-3 years of any college education is mostly just a rehash of high school. You really don't start getting into serious course work until your junior or senior upper level division classes.
My advice to anyone nowadays is think long and hard about the type of life you want. College is not the guarantee it used to be. Even very accomplished, college educated Americans are looking for work. College grads nowadays are competing with people who have twice their experience and twice their level of education. Learn skills........learn how to do shift and be self sufficient. Own land. Get into natural resources......that is where true life, financial independence and freedom comes from. Organic farming is a perfect example of a great industry to get into that doesnt take a college education.
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Yeah but that's my point. What earning potential? Most of the corporate jobs 99% of the people do out there don't need a college degree. I had plenty of corporate jobs in my life and I could have done them all with my eyes closed.....even the couple of management jobs I had. Corporate America and the college industry have created this artificial market where the demand and earning potential for all these so called "degree" necessary jobs is nothing but a house of cards. And it's imploding as we speak. That's why there are so many college degreed out of work Americans chasing too few jobs. I think Americans in general are just fucking dumb. Even the college educated ones......well maybe they aren't dumb but they are just uninformed. Spoon feed whatever the media, and their government feeds them. College kids are nothing but groomed corporate lackeys.... not all but many...they will make great corporate employees but thinkign outside the box? No way.
Here are some stats on earning potential. Pretty significant.
College Degree Nearly Doubles Annual Earnings
Census Bureau confirms earning power of higher education
By Robert Longley, About.com Guide
Just in case you still had some doubts, the U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a college education in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there's more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.
. . .
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/collegepays.htm
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Yeah but that's my point. What earning potential? Most of the corporate jobs 99% of the people do out there don't need a college degree. I had plenty of corporate jobs in my life and I could have done them all with my eyes closed.....even the couple of management jobs I had. Corporate America and the college industry have created this artificial market where the demand and earning potential for all these so called "degree" necessary jobs is nothing but a house of cards. And it's imploding as we speak. That's why there are so many college degreed out of work Americans chasing too few jobs. I think Americans in general are just fucking dumb. Even the college educated ones......well maybe they aren't dumb but they are just uninformed. Spoon feed whatever the media, and their government feeds them. College kids are nothing but groomed corporate lackeys.... not all but many...they will make great corporate employees but thinkign outside the box? No way.
I agree completely, I had a job making "college money" that required a college education before I graduated high school.
I have cousins with bachelors degrees that are working at Avis and Enterprise. ;D
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Here are some stats on earning potential. Pretty significant.
College Degree Nearly Doubles Annual Earnings
Census Bureau confirms earning power of higher education
By Robert Longley, About.com Guide
Just in case you still had some doubts, the U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a college education in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there's more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.
. . .
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/collegepays.htm
You're obviously missing the point here.
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Plus the first 2-3 years of any college education is mostly just a rehash of high school. You really don't start getting into serious course work until your junior or senior upper level division classes.
My advice to anyone nowadays is think long and hard about the type of life you want. College is not the guarantee it used to be. Even very accomplished, college educated Americans are looking for work. College grads nowadays are competing with people who have twice their experience and twice their level of education. Learn skills........learn how to do shift and be self sufficient. Own land. Get into natural resources......that is where true life, financial independence and freedom comes from. Organic farming is a perfect example of a great industry to get into that doesnt take a college education.
Those first two years are part of the learning process. The whole academic environment provides tremendous opportunities for growth. A lot of the benefits are intangible (e.g., better analytical skills, improved social skills, etc.).
I don't think a person has to be a college graduate to be "smart," successful, or have a good life. But if the question is whether the whole experience is worth the cost, I say "yes."
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Yes it's worth it. It not only increases your earning potential, it changes the way you think, and usually makes you smarter.
Yeah, I don't agree with this... People think the way they are wired to think.
Coursework teaches you fundamental things because of the area of study (for instance if you're an engineering major you will learn specific mathematical formula for doing certain types of work), but your thinking process doesn't change. You have been programmed to think the way you think since the day you were born, collegiate courses are too far in life to change your thought process.
Truly, it has more to do with what you are studying... If you are going to be a doctor or a lawyer, obviously you need the coursework that goes along with the area of study, however, let's say you are going to be in the entertainment field, or perhaps something related to other areas of study, perhaps a technical field or what not... Odds are, it's a waste.
I use very little of my degree for what I do on a day to day basis in my field of work.
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Yeah, I don't agree with this... People think the way they are wired to think.
Coursework teaches you fundamental things because of the area of study (for instance if you're an engineering major you will learn specific mathematical formula for doing certain types of work), but your thinking process doesn't change. You have been programmed to think the way you think since the day you were born, collegiate courses are too far in life to change your thought process.
Truly, it has more to do with what you are studying... If you are going to be a doctor or a lawyer, obviously you need the coursework that goes along with the area of study, however, let's say you are going to be in the entertainment field, or perhaps something related to other areas of study, perhaps a technical field or what not... Odds are, it's a waste.
I use very little of my degree for what I do on a day to day basis in my field of work.
I don't see it that way. I remember one professor saying that the college experience impacts how you view the world and even changes the way you read the newspaper. For example, if you think about it, there are a number of literary references in articles that only someone who has read Shakespeare et al. can pick up on. That's a minor point, but it does open up more of the world to educated people, because many educated folks speak the same language.
I was talking to someone recently who is a big literacy advocate (like I am) and he was pushing engineering majors. He thinks regardless of what field a person ultimately chooses, that engineering really develops critical thinking.
Also, the learning process definitely helps people communicate better, in part because it expands their vocabulary.
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I don't see it that way. I remember one professor saying that the college experience impacts how you view the world and even changes the way you read the newspaper. For example, if you think about it, there are a number of literary references in articles that only someone who has read Shakespeare et al. can pick up on. That's a minor point, but it does open up more of the world to educated people, because many educated folks speak the same language.
I was talking to someone recently who is a big literacy advocate (like I am) and he was pushing engineering majors. He thinks regardless of what field a person ultimately chooses, that engineering really develops critical thinking.
Also, the learning process definitely helps people communicate better, in part because it expands their vocabulary.
I agree with the references and the ability to communicate, but that doesn't really have anything to do with "how" you think.
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I agree with the references and the ability to communicate, but that doesn't really have anything to do with "how" you think.
That's debatable. I think anytime you broaden your horizons, whether that is through education or life experience, it impacts how you think.
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No way. Every dumbass and their brother goes to college nowadays. Your average college student is so dumbed down it's pathetic. That's what college used to be about. But even in the last 20 years college has changed big time. The college graduates I see and talk to nowadays are so limited in their ability to understand the world, government, monetary policy, history, and basic math and science. In many cases college makes you dumber. Some of the most intelligent people I know are people that read and study and learn on their own. Just look at all the college athletes. College standars have dropped significantly. But what other American standards haven't. It's sad really.
I agree with this. Biggest mistake was in moving away from the classical format to a career format--changed the thinker to drone.
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BB is so funny, he mocks states and studies but spends more time posting them here than anyone...
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That's debatable. I think anytime you broaden your horizons, whether that is through education or life experience, it impacts how you think.
Like you said... It's debatable.
I think after 18 years of thought process... a few years isn't going to just "change it".
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Like you said... It's debatable.
I think after 18 years of thought process... a few years isn't going to just "change it".
I don't know. Our brains are constantly developing. Part of me thinks the same way I did when I was a kid (and I'm just an overgrown kid), but I really do process information differently than I did when I was 18. Part of that is due to education, part due to maturity, part due to life experience.
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BB is so funny, he mocks states and studies but spends more time posting them here than anyone...
I admire BB in the fact that no one can really get over on him in a debate. Not because he's right, but because he's a master at spinning, and changing the subject.
I'd like to see him on the O'Reilly Factor. Bill would give up, or just cut him off.
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I admire BB in the fact that no one can really get over on him in a debate. Not because he's right, but because he's a master at spinning, and changing the subject.
I'd like to see him on the O'Reilly Factor. Bill would give up, or just cut him off.
LOL, absolutely true. BB is a master of BSpinfactoring. ;D
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I don't know. Our brains are constantly developing. Part of me thinks the same way I did when I was a kid (and I'm just an overgrown kid), but I really do process information differently than I did when I was 18. Part of that is due to education, part due to maturity, part due to life experience.
I doubt the education has anything to do with it... Maturity and life experience...sure... but education?
Nah.
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also, I wouldn't like to see BB on with Billy Orielly... It would probably end up in an on screen love affair. :-X Those two seem like two of a kind.
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also, I wouldn't like to see BB on with Billy Orielly... It would probably end up in an on screen love affair. :-X Those two seem like two of a kind.
haha!
BB is a Log Cabin Republican? ;D
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I doubt the education has anything to do with it... Maturity and life experience...sure... but education?
Nah.
Maturity and life experience take place during the educational process.
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Maturity and life experience take place during the educational process.
Those things take place if you don't have an education anyway... So while they "MAY" take place during college, they certainly take place anyway... whether you go to college or not.
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Those things take place if you don't have an education anyway... So while they "MAY" take place during college, they certainly take place anyway... whether you go to college or not.
True.
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True.
I don't know whether to shit or go blind.
:o :o :o
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haha!
BB is a Log Cabin Republican? ;D
hahahaha
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I don't know whether to shit or go blind.
:o :o :o
You can do both. :)
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I come from a place that college degrees are frowned upon. My HS was a waste of time, nobody prepared us for college, most people never leave far from home, etc.
I think college is worth it. The title of this thread is misleading, the title has the word "always" in it. College is not always worth it. I know several people who aren't smart enough to make it in college. They will stay close to where they grew up, make about the same money their parents make, etc. In their case (which I find sad) then college would not be worth it.
However, in going to college and then seeing the behavior and thought processes of people that live where I grew up, it is like night and day. I'm not going to say that everyone should go to college, but I think everyone should be smart enough and have the right mindset to go to college.
Needless to say, not all colleges are equal.
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I agree with this. Biggest mistake was in moving away from the classical format to a career format--changed the thinker to drone.
Exactly. That's used to be the whole point of college. To turn people into thinkers not just corporate drones ready to fit into a square corporate hole and "work". Hell you can do that with high school.
BeachBum what do you do when more and more people are going to college yet the US economy cannot support all these job seekers? Are you honestly going to tell someone to "get an education" and reach their earning potential when those same good paying upper middle class jobs are disappearing. Plus I'd like to know which degrees are paying $75K out of college compared to the number of people majoring in those degrees.
Engineering, computer sciences, mabye accountants, maybe business degrees MIGHT earn you that type of income but on average a college degree graduate will be lucky if he makes $35K a year. Medical school, law school, MBA's sure might make over $100K or way more. But when it's all said and done they've invested WAY more than that into their education. And in this economy with the rise of globalization and US kids competing with BILLIONS of worldwide college graduates hungry for their same lifestyle.......LMAO GAME OVER!
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I come from a place that college degrees are frowned upon. My HS was a waste of time, nobody prepared us for college, most people never leave far from home, etc.
I think college is worth it. The title of this thread is misleading, the title has the word "always" in it. College is not always worth it. I know several people who aren't smart enough to make it in college. They will stay close to where they grew up, make about the same money their parents make, etc. In their case (which I find sad) then college would not be worth it.
However, in going to college and then seeing the behavior and thought processes of people that live where I grew up, it is like night and day. I'm not going to say that everyone should go to college, but I think everyone should be smart enough and have the right mindset to go to college.
Needless to say, not all colleges are equal.
I agree with this.
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Exactly. That's used to be the whole point of college. To turn people into thinkers not just corporate drones ready to fit into a square corporate hole and "work". Hell you can do that with high school.
BeachBum what do you do when more and more people are going to college yet the US economy cannot support all these job seekers? Are you honestly going to tell someone to "get an education" and reach their earning potential when those same good paying upper middle class jobs are disappearing. Plus I'd like to know which degrees are paying $75K out of college compared to the number of people majoring in those degrees.
Engineering, computer sciences, mabye accountants, maybe business degrees MIGHT earn you that type of income but on average a college degree graduate will be lucky if he makes $35K a year. Medical school, law school, MBA's sure might make over $100K or way more. But when it's all said and done they've invested WAY more than that into their education. And in this economy with the rise of globalization and US kids competing with BILLIONS of worldwide college graduates hungry for their same lifestyle.......LMAO GAME OVER!
You know I'm not really convinced that the US economy cannot support educated job seekers. My theory is that businesses are always looking for good people, whether they advertise for vacancies or not. In terms of being successful in business, trade, etc., education is only part of the ingredients for success. You have to sell yourself and perform. Just getting the piece of paper doesn't guarantee someone will earn more money. Just makes it more likely.
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no college for me.... I hate being around people all the time anyways. I really don't know how some of you fellas live in places like New Jersey, New York, and go to college there.. . MY GAWD.... I got my ass out of the west coast..best thing I ever did. Really playing with the idea of getting 200 acre of land and starting a farm one day ...pecans,blueberries,,sweet potates... Unfortunately, not too many young loyal women out there in 2011 willing to live that lifestyle. God forbid Macey's or Walmart is more than 10 miles away :)
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Schiff did a great vido on this insanity.
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no college for me.... I hate being around people all the time anyways. I really don't know how some of you fellas live in places like New Jersey, New York, and go to college there.. . MY GAWD.... I got my ass out of the west coast..best thing I ever did. Really playing with the idea of getting 200 acre of land and starting a farm one day ...pecans,blueberries,,sweet potates... Unfortunately, not too many young loyal women out there in 2011 willing to live that lifestyle. God forbid Macey's or Walmart is more than 10 miles away :)
Amen brother! I want to get into grass fed beef and organic farming myself. That is the last vestige of the American economy. But I do love the westcoast. Other than the people it's gorgeous here!
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I don't see it that way. I remember one professor saying that the college experience impacts how you view the world and even changes the way you read the newspaper. For example, if you think about it, there are a number of literary references in articles that only someone who has read Shakespeare et al. can pick up on. That's a minor point, but it does open up more of the world to educated people, because many educated folks speak the same language.
I was talking to someone recently who is a big literacy advocate (like I am) and he was pushing engineering majors. He thinks regardless of what field a person ultimately chooses, that engineering really develops critical thinking.
Also, the learning process definitely helps people communicate better, in part because it expands their vocabulary.
College didn't affect the way I view the world (and I am an HBCU grad). Otherwise, I'd be bowing before the shrine of Obama as a card-carrying member of TK. ;D
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no college for me.... I hate being around people all the time anyways. I really don't know how some of you fellas live in places like New Jersey, New York, and go to college there.. . MY GAWD.... I got my ass out of the west coast..best thing I ever did. Really playing with the idea of getting 200 acre of land and starting a farm one day ...pecans,blueberries,,sweet potates... Unfortunately, not too many young loyal women out there in 2011 willing to live that lifestyle. God forbid Macey's or Walmart is more than 10 miles away :)
I loved college. Then again, I went to school in the Sunshine State.
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Yes it's worth it. It not only increases your earning potential, it changes the way you think, and usually makes you smarter.
I am shocked at this glimmer of perspicacity...
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Intellectual activity in what ever form is looked down on in United States society.
It is the reason public school students are not doing so well...It's not the teachers, (my sister is an english teacher) rather it is getting the students to "drink from the trough" so to speak, when they don't want to.
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Intellectual activity in what ever form is looked down on in United States society.
It is the reason public school students are not doing so well...It's not the teachers, (my sister is an english teacher) rather it is getting the students to "drink from the trough" so to speak, when they don't want to.
not that simple stud.
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not that simple stud.
Ahh but it is,...throughout popular culture,...reason, art, literature, science, and music is looked down on.
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Depends on why you go to college and what you go to college for.
Let's face it, spending 4 years pursuing an art or music major just doesn't justify it if you have to take out student loans.
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Depends on why you go to college and what you go to college for.
Let's face it, spending 4 years pursuing an art or music major just doesn't justify it if you have to take out student loans.
Those will be the ones, flipping burgers and bussing tables, AFTER they graduate.
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Those will be the ones, flipping burgers and bussing tables, AFTER they graduate.
Exactly right. That is why college for them is a waste.
Now some other professions and careers that college provide are not. And you can't get them without college in the first place. In that case, college is worth it.
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As far as expecting to make more because you went to college.... you may, but you will have a large debt in most cases that offsets the income.
Also depends on what career path you think you are taking. For some college is a must, for others, it's a nice to have, and the rest, a waste of money and time that could be spent elsewhere.
I suspect the heyday of college has come and gone and trade/tech schools are the new paths to success.
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As far as expecting to make more because you went to college.... you may, but you will have a large debt in most cases that offsets the income.
Also depends on what career path you think you are taking. For some college is a must, for others, it's a nice to have, and the rest, a waste of money and time that could be spent elsewhere.
I suspect the heyday of college has come and gone and trade/tech schools are the new paths to success.
Not quite!! A number of kids are foregoing the big university route and going to community colleges first, while working full or part time and staying at home. Remember that a lot of those loans cover the cost of room and board. I remember in the early/mid 90s, when I was in school, that a semester of college with 15-16 credit hours cost about $2,500; $1,600-$1,800 of that was dorm fees and the 19-meal plan.
I was covered with my full-ride scholarship. But, I remember seeing the prices and being in disbelief.....that is, until I saw the bill of my buddy from Philly. His per-semester cost (for the same number of credit hours) was over TWICE as much as mine was.
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Not quite!! A number of kids are foregoing the big university route and going to community colleges, while working full time and staying at home Remember that a lot of those loans are to cover room and board. I remember that a semester of college with 15-16 credit hours cost about $2,500; $1,600 of that was dorm fees and the 19-meal plan.
I was covered with my full-ride scholarship. But, I remember seeing the prices and being in disbelief.....that is, until I saw the bill of my buddy from Philly. His per-semester cost (for the same number of credit hours) was over TWICE as much as mine was.
You're right about the community college path. I forgot that one. It is now common for kids to get a couple years out of the way there before going to a bigger college or just finishing up there.
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You're right about the community college path. I forgot that one. It is now common for kids to get a couple years out of the way there before going to a bigger college or just finishing up there.
I think it's actually a much smarter route.
I went to an expensive 4 year university straight out of High School, spent a year and a 1/2 there and realized that my major at the time wasn't really what I should be doing.
Moved back home for a couple of years, went to a community college for a year and then went back to a different 4 year university to finish a degree that ended up to be better off for me.
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I think it's actually a much smarter route.
I went to an expensive 4 year university straight out of High School, spent a year and a 1/2 there and realized that my major at the time wasn't really what I should be doing.
Moved back home for a couple of years, went to a community college for a year and then went back to a different 4 year university to finish a degree that ended up to be better off for me.
Good point. And why pay premium prices to get the small stuff out of the way?
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You're right about the community college path. I forgot that one. It is now common for kids to get a couple years out of the way there before going to a bigger college or just finishing up there.
I know the costs have SKYROCKETED since I was in school. But, you can pay for tuition and books, at a community college (or even at a big university, if you live in the same city as that school), if you stay home.
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Good point. And why pay premium prices to get the small stuff out of the way?
Calculus is Calculus.
No point in paying 1000 dollars a credit when you can pay 60 or whatever the community college rate is these days.
Plus, when you're 18, you really have a lot of life to live before you "figure it out".
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Calculus is Calculus.
No point in paying 1000 dollars a credit when you can pay 60 or whatever the community college rate is these days.
Plus, when you're 18, you really have a lot of life to live before you "figure it out".
Hell, I had it all figured out at 18.. I just don't know what the hell happened between 18 and 25
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Hell, I had it all figured out at 18.. I just don't know what the hell happened between 18 and 25
I think I got my shit REALLY together as far as education and career is concerned when I was about 22.
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I finished my masters at age 22 and I had friends from high school that were not even finished with their associates yet. Some just dropped out, some just started late. Very few of the ones that were in college when I graduated actually finished. Very sad too because like myself, a good number of them had scholarships.
Looking back to compare myself with the rest of my graduating class (of 200+ people), I can think of only maybe 5-7 that are doing as well as I am due to going to college. There are 3 more that are doing better with no college (set designer in hollywood, took over family business, one received lawsuit settlement from accident)
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Not all college degrees are created equal. Choice of major determines whether a college degree is worth it.
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Not all college degrees are created equal. Choice of major determines whether a college degree is worth it.
Exactly my point. However, in many cases the tuition for college credits are the same no matter what you study. (Excluding grad school)
Going 80K in debt with student loans to be a teacher making $34K a year is ridiculous.