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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on July 11, 2011, 03:56:47 PM
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"A former patient who sought help from the Christian counseling clinic owned by GOP presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann and her husband, Marcus, told ABC News he was advised that prayer could rid him of his homosexual urges and he could eventually be "re-oriented."
" path for my therapy would be to read the Bible, pray to God that I would no longer be gay," said Andrew Ramirez, who was 17-years-old at the time he sought help from Bachmann & Associates in suburban Minneapolis in 2004. "And God would forgive me if I were straight."
In the past, Marcus Bachmann has disputed the clinic has treated gay patients this way. But Ramirez's account, which was first reported by The Nation, is similar to the counseling session that appears on new undercover video shot by a gay rights advocacy group last month. That footage shows another counselor at the Bachmann clinic telling a gay man posing as a patient that, with prayer and effort, he could eventually learn to be attracted to women and rid himself of his gay urges..."
Can you say "Hidden camera", Michelle? Yep, they're not just used by your side.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/michele-bachmann-exclusiv...
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D top repub candidate, you can't make this shit up
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it was cool when that one pimp exposed acorn as corrupt.
i guess it won't be cool now.
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So teaching someone how to be a pimp and qualify for tax dollars is the same as telling someone to pray?
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So teaching someone how to be a pimp and qualify for tax dollars is the same as telling someone to pray?
pray the gay away :D :D :D :D :D
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So teaching someone how to be a pimp and qualify for tax dollars is the same as telling someone to pray?
good point. did the marcus clinic receive any federal dollars?
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good point. did the marcus clinic receive any federal dollars?
Speaking of acorn
BREAKING: It Turns Out Obama Gave ACORN $541K This Year, Not $80K
Big Government ^ | 7/11/11 | Matthew Vadum
Posted on July 11, 2011 8:06:04 PM EDT by Nachum
Remember that story from a few days ago, the one about the Obama administration giving ACORN a $79,819 grant in March despite a federal law that prohibits the government from giving money to ACORN?
It turns out that sum is a lowball figure.
I discovered Obama’s Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) gave ACORN another $461,086 in January. The funds were earmarked for ACORN Housing Corp. in January under HUD’s Self-help Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP), according to the government website USAspending.gov.
In order words, the Obama administration gave fraud-ridden ACORN nearly a half million dollars to be used on housing development.
The administration isn’t even trying to conceal the fact that it gave this money to ACORN.
USAspending.gov identifies the recipient as “ACORN Housing Corporation Inc.” even though that nonprofit entity filed papers last year legally changing its name to Affordable Housing Centers of America (AHCOA).
(Excerpt) Read more at biggovernment.com ...
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This shit is almost funny, the Dem's must really be worried about her. When did she announce she was running again a couple weeks? The MSM has done more probing of Bachman in a couple weeks than they have done to Obama since he announced he was running several years ago. Fucking pathetic, all this bullshit is just more distraction from the incompetent assclown aka our current POTUS
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This shit is almost funny, the Dem's must really be worried about her. When did she announce she was running again a couple weeks? The MSM has done more probing of Bachman in a couple weeks than they have done to Obama since he announced he was running several years ago. Fucking pathetic, all this bullshit is just more distraction from the incompetent assclown aka our current POTUS
Good their getting bs out of the way now. By next year she is going smash Obama to smitherines.
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This shit is almost funny, the Dem's must really be worried about her. When did she announce she was running again a couple weeks? The MSM has done more probing of Bachman in a couple weeks than they have done to Obama since he announced he was running several years ago. Fucking pathetic, all this bullshit is just more distraction from the incompetent assclown aka our current POTUS
MSM = includes FOX and Drudge.
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This shit is almost funny, the Dem's must really be worried about her. When did she announce she was running again a couple weeks? The MSM has done more probing of Bachman in a couple weeks than they have done to Obama since he announced he was running several years ago. Fucking pathetic, all this bullshit is just more distraction from the incompetent assclown aka our current POTUS
Anything to distract attention from the current state of the economy. Notice how the same people polluting these Bachmann threads are completely nonexistent in the economic threads?
Sheeple just like their American Idol counterparts.
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MSM = includes FOX and Drudge.
I don't really give a fuck what it ='s, your as bad as the MSM, redirect every fucking discussion into some dumbass direction. Your devil's advocate shit is getting old. No one wants to debate anything on this board anymore, just spin and stupid bullshit.
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I don't really give a fuck what it ='s, your as bad as the MSM, redirect every fucking discussion into some dumbass direction. Your devil's advocate shit is getting old. No one wants to debate anything on this board anymore, just spin and stupid bullshit.
dont know if you were around during the election bro but this is nothing compared to the idiocy 240 put out then.
considering his current level, Id say he will be about way past benny status by the next election.
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You mean a Christian counselor, who believes homosexuality is a sin, which is consistent with black and white Biblical passages, told a homosexual to pray about his sexual preferences? Well stop the presses. I mean it's not like we have entire organizations devoted to "pray the gay away" in this country or anything. ::)
This is as dumb as the (blatantly false) Bachmann signs a pledge to ban all porn thread. ::)
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dont know if you were around during the election bro but this is nothing compared to the idiocy 240 put out then.
considering his current level, Id say he will be about way past benny status by the next election.
240 - I am a liberaltarian.
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considering that jesus christ never spoke against homosexuality, isn't it by definition not anti-christian to be a homosexual
???
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considering that jesus christ never spoke against homosexuality, isn't it by definition not anti-christian to be a homosexual
???
No.
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No.
so by definition "christian" isn't following the teachings of christ?
Like Jeffersonian, Aristotelian, Machiavellian, Lockean, etc
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so by definition "christian" isn't following the teachings of christ?
Like Jeffersonian, Aristotelian, Machiavellian, Lockean, etc
Not at all. Your definition is wrong. Jesus didn't touch on every Biblical teaching during his 33 years on earth.
If you're trying to say the Bible doesn't speak very clearly about homosexuality, or that the Biblical view of homosexuality isn't "Christian," I don't think you have any reasonable support for that kind of opinion.
In any event, it doesn't make this story any less ridiculous.
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Anything to distract attention from the current state of the economy. Notice how the same people polluting these Bachmann threads are completely nonexistent in the economic threads?
Sheeple just like their American Idol counterparts.
Does Bachmann have an economic policy to debate?
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considering that jesus christ never spoke against homosexuality, isn't it by definition not anti-christian to be a homosexual
???
There is a lot of incest in the bibel i guess thats okay go figure
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Not at all. Your definition is wrong. Jesus didn't touch on every Biblical teaching during his 33 years on earth.
If you're trying to say the Bible doesn't speak very clearly about homosexuality, or that the Biblical view of homosexuality isn't "Christian," I don't think you have any reasonable support for that kind of opinion.
In any event, it doesn't make this story any less ridiculous.
I'm not talking about Biblical, i'm talking about Christianity and using "christian" to mean "teachings of Christ" just like we use terms such as Jeffersonian (teachings of thomas Jefferson), Lockean (teachings of John Locke), Machiavellian (teachings of Machiavelli), Aristotelian (teachings of Aristotle), Millian (teachings of John Stuart Mill), etc. If we use this understanding of "Christian" just like we use "teachings of _______(insert name)" for those other terms, then by definition, homosexuality is not anti-christian because it is not anti-the teachings of christ, since Christ never spoke on homosexuality.
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I tried that.
prayed to God to take the gay away.
He answered, "no" you're fabulous the way I made you.
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I'm not talking about Biblical, i'm talking about Christianity and using "christian" to mean "teachings of Christ" just like we use terms such as Jeffersonian (teachings of thomas Jefferson), Lockean (teachings of John Locke), Machiavellian (teachings of Machiavelli), Aristotelian (teachings of Aristotle), Millian (teachings of John Stuart Mill), etc. If we use this understanding of "Christian" just like we use "teachings of _______(insert name)" for those other terms, then by definition, homosexuality is not anti-christian because it is not anti-the teachings of christ, since Christ never spoke on homosexuality.
"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?'" Matthew 19:4-5.
Those are the words of Jesus, when answering a question about marriage. Don't you think, if there were some exemption for homosexuality, He would have mentioned it. Jesus said He was there to do the will of His Father and not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.
Homosexuality ("If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman; they have committed an abomination to God") is CLEARLY pointed out as sinful. Of that there is no doubt. We've seen liberals foolishly attempt to twist and jerk Scripture to condone what it clearly condemns. The teachings of Christ are the teaching of the Bible; the two are hardly seperate. He took what was taught in the Old Testament one step further. He didn't diminish it.
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MSM = includes FOX and Drudge.
MSM is a joint rehabilitation compound used alot on race horses. It's like glucoseamine sulfate.
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I thought everyone knew by now the acorn scandal was false.
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"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?'" Matthew 19:4-5.
Those are the words of Jesus, when answering a question about marriage. Don't you think, if there were some exemption for homosexuality, He would have mentioned it.
I did not say that Christ approved of homosexuality. I said that by definition of understanding the word "Christian" then homosexuality is not anti-christian. Not being anti-christian is not the same as being "pro".
Homosexuality ("If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman; they have committed an abomination to God") is CLEARLY pointed out as sinful. Of that there is no doubt.
It may be unbiblical, but this thread is about the specific teachings of Christ.
The teachings of Christ are the teaching of the Bible; the two are hardly
He took what was taught in the Old Testament one step further. He didn't diminish it.
ah here we go. For this to be true, you would have to admit that everything mentioned in the non-christ speaking parts is agreed on by Jesus. Jesus would have to agree that we should stone adulterers, not shave, not sit where a menstruating woman has sat, etc etc. It was clear that Jesus did not agree with stoning adulterers. I think Jesus changed parts of the old testament built upon hierarchy and social structure and implemented a certain equality (we are all sinners, etc), I do not think the two are compatible, I think Jesus modified the old ways of doing things. If he even modified it in a slight, tiny little bit, in any way possible, your statement cannot be true.
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I did not say that Christ approved of homosexuality. I said that by definition of understanding the word "Christian" then homosexuality is not anti-christian. Not being anti-christian is not the same as being "pro".
It may be unbiblical, but this thread is about the specific teachings of Christ.
ah here we go. For this to be true, you would have to admit that everything mentioned in the non-christ speaking parts is agreed on by Jesus. Jesus would have to agree that we should stone adulterers, not shave, not sit where a menstruating woman has sat, etc etc. It was clear that Jesus did not agree with stoning adulterers. I think Jesus changed parts of the old testament built upon hierarchy and social structure and implemented a certain equality (we are all sinners, etc), I do not think the two are compatible, I think Jesus modified the old ways of doing things. If he even modified it in a slight, tiny little bit, in any way possible, your statement cannot be true.
Jesus followed those laws throughout his life. As far as the issue with the woman caught in adultery, AT NO POINT did Jesus disagree with the law. What's clear is that this issue wasn't about the woman. It was about the Pharisees, trying to set up and trap Jesus. The text even says as much ("They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him."]
That's a clear PERVERSION of the law, as the law of Moses states that BOTH adultery-committing parties (man and woman) were to be put to death, not just the woman. They didn't even have the husband of this woman or the wife of the guy's husband there (who by law, would throw the first stone).
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Jesus followed those laws throughout his life. As far as the issue with the woman caught in adultery, AT NO POINT did Jesus disagree with the law. What's clear is that this issue wasn't about the woman. It was about the Pharisees, trying to set up and trap Jesus. The text even says as much ("They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him."]
That's a clear PERVERSION of the law, as the law of Moses states that BOTH adultery-committing parties (man and woman) were to be put to death, not just the woman. They didn't even have the husband of this woman or the wife of the guy's husband there (who by law, would throw the first stone).
so the "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" aren't applicable? Do you think not stoning an adulterer is a sin? You also didn't address the other parts that it seems Jesus modified. I think what you are trying to show goes against the majority of christian believers. The most obvious case that I can think of that Jesus modified from the old testament is the way that sins are forgiven. If jesus modified, in any slight tiny little way possible, the way that sins are forgiven, then your premise that the teachings of jesus and the teachings of non-jesus speaking parts are inseparable is false. If the premise is false, then the conclusion that homosexuality is anti-christian is false (keeping in mind the use of the word "Christian").
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so the "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" aren't applicable? Do you think not stoning an adulterer is a sin? You also didn't address the other parts that it seems Jesus modified. I think what you are trying to show goes against the majority of christian believers. The most obvious case that I can think of that Jesus modified from the old testament is the way that sins are forgiven. If jesus modified, in any slight tiny little way possible, the way that sins are forgiven, then your premise that the teachings of jesus and the teachings of non-jesus speaking parts are inseparable is false. If the premise is false, then the conclusion that homosexuality is anti-christian is false (keeping in mind the use of the word "Christian").
The "cast the first stone" line was again, a jab a the Pharisees who were perverting the law, to trap Jesus. "Judge not, lest ye be not judged" does not mean let sinful behavior go unchecked. Yes, we should have a spirit of forgiveness and mercy. But, none of that entail encouraging or turning a blind eye to wrong behavior.
As far as homosexuality goes, it clearly goes against Jesus' teaching (again, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"). That clearly spells out man and woman, not man and man, nor woman and woman.
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IF EVERYONE WERE GAY - THE HUMAN RACE WOULD BE EXTINCT!
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The "cast the first stone" line was again, a jab a the Pharisees who were perverting the law, to trap Jesus. "Judge not, lest ye be not judged" does not mean let sinful behavior go unchecked. Yes, we should have a spirit of forgiveness and mercy. But, none of that entail encouraging or turning a blind eye to wrong behavior.
As far as homosexuality goes, it clearly goes against Jesus' teaching (again, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"). That clearly spells out man and woman, not man and man, nor woman and woman.
the bold part is the only correct conclusion that we can draw from that quote. It doesn't denounce man and man or woman and woman, it simply does not address them. Not addressing them is not the same as calling them immoral. If I list a set of moral actions, that does not mean that all actions I don't mention are immoral. If I list a set of immoral actions, that does not mean that all actions I don't mention are moral. They are simply unaddressed.
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I'm not talking about Biblical, i'm talking about Christianity and using "christian" to mean "teachings of Christ" just like we use terms such as Jeffersonian (teachings of thomas Jefferson), Lockean (teachings of John Locke), Machiavellian (teachings of Machiavelli), Aristotelian (teachings of Aristotle), Millian (teachings of John Stuart Mill), etc. If we use this understanding of "Christian" just like we use "teachings of _______(insert name)" for those other terms, then by definition, homosexuality is not anti-christian because it is not anti-the teachings of christ, since Christ never spoke on homosexuality.
If by the "teachings of Christ" you mean everything he was quoted as saying in the Bible, then your definition is too narrow. Christ didn't speak about a lot of things. For example, what did he say about spouse abuse?
If by the "teachings of Christ" you mean his reliance on Biblical writings, there are crystal clear teachings in the Bible about homosexuality.
Either way, any attempt to try and find support for homosexuality in the Bible isn't very logical.
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"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?'" Matthew 19:4-5.
Those are the words of Jesus, when answering a question about marriage. Don't you think, if there were some exemption for homosexuality, He would have mentioned it. Jesus said He was there to do the will of His Father and not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.
Homosexuality ("If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman; they have committed an abomination to God") is CLEARLY pointed out as sinful. Of that there is no doubt. We've seen liberals foolishly attempt to twist and jerk Scripture to condone what it clearly condemns. The teachings of Christ are the teaching of the Bible; the two are hardly seperate. He took what was taught in the Old Testament one step further. He didn't diminish it.
Yeah. I agree with this.
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If by the "teachings of Christ" you mean everything he was quoted as saying in the Bible, then your definition is too narrow. Christ didn't speak about a lot of things. For example, what did he say about spouse abuse?
If by the "teachings of Christ" you mean his reliance on Biblical writings, there are crystal clear teachings in the Bible about homosexuality.
Either way, any attempt to try and find support for homosexuality in the Bible isn't very logical.
by "teachings of christ" i mean what Christ taught. I'm using, in this thread, "christian" by the same definition that we apply to other terms such as Aristotelian (people use this term to apply to what Aristotle taught) or Millian (people use this term to apply to what Mill taught). I don't think my definition of "Christian", when taken the same way that people accept these other terms, is too narrow. I don't know what Christ said about Spouse abuse but let us assume that he never mentioned it. That would mean that spouse abuse is by definition not anti-christian. That does NOT mean that Christ approved of spouse abuse, he may well have (as I assume) been very much against it. But if spouse abuse is not mentioned in any quotes we have of Jesus, then Jesus never taught on spouse abuse. If Jesus never taught on spouse abuse then we cannot say, by definition, that spouse abuse is anti christian (Christian= the teachings of Christ, Aristotelian= the teachings of Aristotle, Lockean= the teachings of John Locke). Most people take "christian" to mean the teachings of the entire bible, not just of what Christ taught, which in light of how we typically use phrases such as Aristotelian, is inconsistent. Consider for example Aristotle's take on metaphysics. If Aristotle agreed with something that Plato said, but Aristotle is never seen discussing this topic, then we cannot call this topic "Aristotelian".
Keep in mind I am NOT saying that Jesus supported homosexuals. I'm saying by definition of "Christian", homosexuality is not anti-christian since Christ never said (as far as we know) homosexuality was immoral. If Christ did not teach "not x" then we cannot say "not x" is a christian ideal. Christ agreeing with "not x" is a separate issue from what Christ taught.
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If god exists im sure he could care less about gays. He created this place we would be like ants to him he wouldnt give a shit...
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by "teachings of christ" i mean what Christ taught. I'm using, in this thread, "christian" by the same definition that we apply to other terms such as Aristotelian (people use this term to apply to what Aristotle taught) or Millian (people use this term to apply to what Mill taught). I don't think my definition of "Christian", when taken the same way that people accept these other terms, is too narrow. I don't know what Christ said about Spouse abuse but let us assume that he never mentioned it. That would mean that spouse abuse is by definition not anti-christian. That does NOT mean that Christ approved of spouse abuse, he may well have (as I assume) been very much against it. But if spouse abuse is not mentioned in any quotes we have of Jesus, then Jesus never taught on spouse abuse. If Jesus never taught on spouse abuse then we cannot say, by definition, that spouse abuse is anti christian (Christian= the teachings of Christ, Aristotelian= the teachings of Aristotle, Lockean= the teachings of John Locke). Most people take "christian" to mean the teachings of the entire bible, not just of what Christ taught, which in light of how we typically use phrases such as Aristotelian, is inconsistent. Consider for example Aristotle's take on metaphysics. If Aristotle agreed with something that Plato said, but Aristotle is never seen discussing this topic, then we cannot call this topic "Aristotelian".
Keep in mind I am NOT saying that Jesus supported homosexuals. I'm saying by definition of "Christian", homosexuality is not anti-christian since Christ never said (as far as we know) homosexuality was immoral. If Christ did not teach "not x" then we cannot say "not x" is a christian ideal. Christ agreeing with "not x" is a separate issue from what Christ taught.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. The "teachings of Christ" are not limited to quotes you can find in the New Testament. He embraced Biblical teachings. It would be more accurate to say that the "teachings of Christ," and Christianity in general, are grounded on Biblical teachings.
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If god exists im sure he could care less about gays. He created this place we would be like ants to him he wouldnt give a shit...
I'm pretty sure the people of Sodom and Gomorraha would disagree
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IF EVERYONE WERE GAY - THE HUMAN RACE WOULD BE EXTINCT!
no, you would never be allowed to be gay; we would take away your membership card.
please feel free to spread your seed into as many wombs as possible. ;D
if everyone were blonde it would be boring; if everyone were left handed we'd never get anything written.
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if he used tax dollars, this is a big deal. crime, etc.
if this is just his private practice, then he is a religious weirdo, but not a crime there. It just comes down to judgment, then.
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if he used tax dollars, this is a big deal. crime, etc.
if this is just his private practice, then he is a religious weirdo, but not a crime there. It just comes down to judgment, then.
::) There is nothing weird about a Christian telling a homosexual to pray about something the Bible says is unnatural. Another dumb non-issue.
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I'm pretty sure the people of Sodom and Gomorraha would disagree
So then God was ok with destroying the gays, but saving Lot and his daughters so they can have incestuous sex?
Seems odd to me, but ok.
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So then God was ok with destroying the gays, but saving Lot and his daughters so they can have incestuous sex?
Seems odd to me, but ok.
I think you are confusing Lot with Noah
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I think you are confusing Lot with Noah
Not a bit... Lot had incestuous sex with his daughters.
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Not a bit... Lot had incestuous sex with his daughters.
They got him drunk and had sex with him. I don't recall reading where they were commanded to do that.
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They got him drunk and had sex with him. I don't recall reading where they were commanded to do that.
I didn't say they were "commanded", did I? What the fuck does being "commanded" have to do with the act anyway?
Genesis 19:30-38
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
30And Lot went up out of Zoar and dwelt on the mountain, and his two daughters with him, for he feared to dwell in Zoar; and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31And the firstborn said unto the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth.
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father."
33And they made their father drink wine that night, and the firstborn went in and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34And it came to pass on the morrow that the firstborn said unto the younger, "Behold, I lay yesternight with my father. Let us make him drink wine this night also, and go thou in and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father."
35And they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37And the firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab; the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38And the younger, she also bore a son and called his name Benammi; the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
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A mans' cock was made for a womans' pussy, not for another mans' asshole where shit comes out.
END OF THREAD
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I didn't say they were "commanded", did I? What the fuck does being "commanded" have to do with the act anyway?
Genesis 19:30-38
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
30And Lot went up out of Zoar and dwelt on the mountain, and his two daughters with him, for he feared to dwell in Zoar; and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31And the firstborn said unto the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth.
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father."
33And they made their father drink wine that night, and the firstborn went in and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34And it came to pass on the morrow that the firstborn said unto the younger, "Behold, I lay yesternight with my father. Let us make him drink wine this night also, and go thou in and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father."
35And they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37And the firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab; the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38And the younger, she also bore a son and called his name Benammi; the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
I thought you were implying that God approved of their conduct. If you were not, but were simply making a meaningless observation, then my bad.
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You Republicans are a bunch of damn hyenas, I swear.
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I thought you were implying that God approved of their conduct. If you were not, but were simply making a meaningless observation, then my bad.
I AM saying that God approved of it... That's not commanding anything.
You have really gotten dense.
God saved their lives so they can have incestuous relations, but thought gay people were too evil so he killed them (hypocrisy).
I still didn't say he "commanded" anything.
Do you need a dictionary?
com·mand (k-mnd)
v. com·mand·ed, com·mand·ing, com·mands
v.tr.
1. To direct with authority; give orders to.
ap·prove (-prv)
v. ap·proved, ap·prov·ing, ap·proves
v.tr.
1. To consider right or good; think or speak favorably of.
2. To consent to officially or formally; confirm or sanction:
They are two different fucking words with two different fucking meanings.
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I thought everyone knew by now the acorn scandal was false.
333 knows it too but he likes to ignore anything that doesn't fit his preconceived prejudices
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Ah yes pray to rid us of human nature. That'll work. It's work for infidelity right?
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333 knows it too but he likes to ignore anything that doesn't fit his preconceived prejudices
How was it false?
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I wonder if Marcus Bachmann's counseling is based on personal experience.
how many times now have we've seen that the most strident anti-gay christians turn out to be closet cases
I also wonder why all of the Bachmann's foster children were all girls.
Maybe Michelle didn't want Marcus to be tempted
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I AM saying that God approved of it... That's not commanding anything.
You have really gotten dense.
God saved their lives so they can have incestuous relations, but thought gay people were too evil so he killed them (hypocrisy).
I still didn't say he "commanded" anything.
Do you need a dictionary?
com·mand (k-mnd)
v. com·mand·ed, com·mand·ing, com·mands
v.tr.
1. To direct with authority; give orders to.
ap·prove (-prv)
v. ap·proved, ap·prov·ing, ap·proves
v.tr.
1. To consider right or good; think or speak favorably of.
2. To consent to officially or formally; confirm or sanction:
They are two different fucking words with two different fucking meanings.
In this context, there isn't a hill of beans difference between saying God commanded something, and God approved of something.
In any event, on what specific part of the passages that you quoted to do you find God's approval of Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex with him?
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Ah yes pray to rid us of human nature. That'll work. It's work for infidelity right?
There are many abnormal parts of human nature. Many things that humans have done for years. The fact certain conduct has existed for a long time doesn't make it normal.
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In this context, there isn't a hill of beans difference between saying God commanded something, and God approved of something.
In any event, on what specific part of the passages that you quoted to do you find God's approval of Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex with him?
You are clueless.
Because God saved them, and knew they would have incest, he must of course have approved it, or he would have let them perish in the micro-genocide of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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There are many abnormal parts of human nature. Many things that humans have done for years. The fact certain conduct has existed for a long time doesn't make it normal.
believing an ancient fairy tale is abnormal
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believing an ancient fairy tale is abnormal
Like Keynesian economics?
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Like Keynesian economics?
you mean that tax cuts stimulate the economy and pay for themselves
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You are clueless.
Because God saved them, and knew they would have incest, he must of course have approved it, or he would have let them perish in the micro-genocide of Sodom and Gomorrah.
I see. That would only make sense if he took away the power of choice. Using this twisted logic, you can say he has condoned every evil thing that has happened, because he didn't destroy everyone.
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I see. That would only make sense if he took away the power of choice. Using this twisted logic, you can say he has condoned every evil thing that has happened, because he didn't destroy everyone.
I do say that.
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I love how Christians just ignore the fact that not everyone choose to believe in their God or their choices on what is moral
They live in a country that ALLOWS them the freedom of regligion and yet they want to impose their beliefs on others
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A mans' cock was made for a womans' pussy, not for another mans' asshole where shit comes out.
END OF THREAD
2008 version of 333386 was not a social conservative.
2011 version of 333386 is a social con suddenly.
Dude, you have swung right just like your idols palin and mitt.
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I love how Christians just ignore the fact that not everyone choose to believe in their God or their choices on what is moral
They live in a country that ALLOWS them the freedom of regligion and yet they want to impose their beliefs on others
And I love how gays just ignore the fact that not everyone thinks being gay is a natural normal life style choice
Yet expect everyone to just condone their lifestyle choice and make special rules for them.
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2008 version of 333386 was not a social conservative.
2011 version of 333386 is a social con suddenly.
Dude, you have swung right just like your idols palin and mitt.
i'M TALKING ABOUT NATURE, NOT GOVT.
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i'M TALKING ABOUT NATURE, NOT GOVT.
Why do you even bother responding the schizophrenic 120?
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i'M TALKING ABOUT NATURE, NOT GOVT.
What gives you the right to judge what other people do in their bedroom?
Shouldn't the govt stay the hell out of our personal business?
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And I love how gays just ignore the fact that not everyone thinks being gay is a natural normal life style choice
Yet expect everyone to just condone their lifestyle choice and make special rules for them.
who is asking you to "condone" it in the first place
what makes you think it's even your place to condone it or not?
I wasn't aware they wanted any special rules
what are you referring to?
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What gives you the right to judge what other people do in their bedroom?
Shouldn't the govt stay the hell out of our personal business?
We make judgments all the time. When I see a man stick his cock in another mans' crapper - sorry - its fucked up and not normal.
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We make judgments all the time. When I see a man stick his cock in another mans' crapper - sorry - its fucked up and not normal.
I bet you love watching lesbians go at it though don't you.
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We make judgments all the time. When I see a man stick his cock in another mans' crapper - sorry - its fucked up and not normal.
is it cool when a guy cornholes a woman?
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I bet you love watching lesbians go at it though don't you.
Lesbos dont do anything for me. I like it old school.
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Lesbos dont do anything for me. I like it old school.
what's that, dick in hand ;D
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who is asking you to "condone" it in the first place
what makes you think it's even your place to condone it or not?
I wasn't aware they wanted any special rules
what are you referring to?
You gays never seem to notice all the homosexual propaganda we are subjected to on a daily basis. Last time I checked their wasn't a hetero pride parade........
I'll tell you what makes me think it is my place to condone it or not, the moment the gay propaganda started.
Personally I don't give a damn if you want to play for the other team, just don't try to infiltrate cartoons and fuck with kids minds in your never ending quest for the non gays to accept your lifestyle as normal.
Its not normal, in the most base aspect of nature it serves no purpose, an anomaly that defies the very purpose of having a male and female of the species.
It is a sexual preference, not a race, creed, or color.
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Lesbos dont do anything for me. I like it old school.
I like watching the chicks lick the carpet...
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/1wged6/cartman-wants-to-be-a-lesbian (http://www.spike.com/video-clips/1wged6/cartman-wants-to-be-a-lesbian)
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I like watching the chicks lick the carpet...
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/1wged6/cartman-wants-to-be-a-lesbian (http://www.spike.com/video-clips/1wged6/cartman-wants-to-be-a-lesbian)
I like a woman like Christy canyon, M. Monroe, etc.
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You gays never seem to notice all the homosexual propaganda we are subjected to on a daily basis. Last time I checked their wasn't a hetero pride parade........
I'll tell you what makes me think it is my place to condone it or not, the moment the gay propaganda started.
Personally I don't give a damn if you want to play for the other team, just don't try to infiltrate cartoons and fuck with kids minds in your never ending quest for the non gays to accept your lifestyle as normal.
Its not normal, in the most base aspect of nature it serves no purpose, an anomaly that defies the very purpose of having a male and female of the species
I'm not gay and I find the gay pride parades a bit weird too (and that's nothing compared to the S&M festival that they have in SF - I can't believe the shit they get away with in public at that one) but if they want to cross dress and parade around I don't see how that harms me in any way
Like you, I peronsally don't give a damn what consenting adults want to do with each other (gay, straight, bi, poly whatever)
That's been my philospy for a long time
Unlike you I don't feel any personal threat from gays, transgenders etc... and I believe they are entitled to the same rights as everyone else
I have no problem with kids learning (at an appropriate age) that gay people EXIST
why would anyone have a problem with that?
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I like a woman like Christy canyon, M. Monroe, etc.
Christy Canyon still looks pretty damn good today
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Christy Canyon still looks pretty damn good today
That she does... So does Nina Hartley
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That she does... So does Nina Hartley
haven't seen her in awhile
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haven't seen her in awhile
She don't look so hot now.
Canyon has aged a lot better.
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A mans' cock was made for a womans' pussy, not for another mans' asshole where shit comes out.
END OF THREAD
and lesbians are free to lick each other?
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I wonder if Marcus Bachmann's counseling is based on personal experience.
how many times now have we've seen that the most strident anti-gay christians turn out to be closet cases
I also wonder why all of the Bachmann's foster children were all girls.
Maybe Michelle didn't want Marcus to be tempted
He makes Ted Haggard look straight!
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Ah yes pray to rid us of human nature. That'll work. It's work for infidelity right?
It seems to have worked for this young lady.
A Changed Life
by Christine Sneeringer
My heart pounded as the Sunday-school teacher asked us to break into small groups and discuss how we might reach the homosexual community for Jesus Christ.
I had often wondered if everyone knew my secret. Now I would find out for sure. In my group of four, Rachel spoke first: "I don't have any compassion for homosexuals."
My heart sank.
Mark chimed in, "I don't have any compassion for homosexuals either, and I think AIDS is God's judgment against homosexuals."
These two seemed so smug, so arrogant. Anger burned inside me, and I vowed not to speak. But my friend Robert, who knew I had been a homosexual, spoke next: "Christine, what do you think?"
I shot him a look that could have killed. Then I took a deep breath and told Rachel and Mark my secret. The looks on their faces told me that they were sorry and felt embarrassed.
What they didn't understand was that I, like many other homosexuals, hadn't wanted to be gay. It just happened.
I had grown up in a home where women were either objects of a man's lust or victims of his abuse. My father was addicted to pornography, and he was verbally and physically abusive to my mother. Once I saw him hit her with a tennis racket. I vowed in my heart that I would never let any man hurt me like that. I resolved to be tougher and stronger than any man.
I hated being a girl because I didn't want to be a victim like my mom. I mistakenly believed that to be feminine was to be weak, so I gravitated toward showing masculine behaviors.
"I knew that I wanted God more than my homosexuality"
My older brother was my childhood hero. I wanted to be just like him. I hung out with him whenever he would let me, and I wore his hand-me-down clothes. I even copied his handwriting style. I wanted to be anything but a girl.
A natural athlete, I excelled in every sport I attempted, from tennis to little league baseball to sandlot football. I was accepted as one of the guys and often mistaken for a boy. I refused to go by my full name "Christine" because it was obviously a girl's name. Instead I went by "Chris."
When I was 12, my parents divorced and sent me to live with relatives, where an older cousin molested me. Growing up, I had other experiences in which men took advantage of me. I never felt safe with men, so relationships with women seemed to be the only safe option.
My first lesbian relationship began in high school. It was exhilarating and met a need in my life. For the first time I really felt loved.
I was a lesbian for six years and believed I would never change. But while in college at The University of Tampa, in Tampa, Florida, I met some Christians who told me of a better love--the love that God had for me.
Although I was in a homosexual relationship, I played on a church softball team. One teammate, Kelly, knew that I was a lesbian, but she never preached to me. She just cared for me and prayed for me.
In time I was drawn by the love my fellow teammates had for each other and for me. It seemed so pure and so right. I became interested in spiritual things and asked Kelly to help me study the Bible. She agreed, and we met weekly to study the book of John.
One Sunday night in October, 1989, Kelly led me in a prayer of salvation as I knelt beside my bed in my dorm room.
When I stood up, I knew that deep down something had changed. I knew that I wanted God more than my homosexuality. But becoming a Christian was only the beginning of my journey. It didn't instantly resolve my homosexual orientation. I broke up with my lover, but I continued to struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions.
Fortunately, I found out about a ministry that helps people overcome their homosexuality, and I began to attend a local support group in Tampa.
That is where I discovered the root causes of my homosexual desires--causes like sexual abuse, gender confusion, breakdown in the relationship with the same-sex parent, an abusive father and peer rejection.
I met godly, strong women in church who helped me to see that to be feminine was not to be weak. I met men who treated me with dignity and respect. This freed me to embrace my gender and to stop rejecting God's design. I even started using my full name, Christine, because I no longer wanted to hide being a girl.
"Becoming a Christian was only the beginning of my journey"
My ideas about men and women were changed. I learned that being female is not a liability. And I began to identify outwardly with women, experimenting with wearing makeup and different clothes and using purses. I became different from the inside out.
Others noticed my progress and encouraged me. I'll never forget when Robert approached me in church and said, smiling, "Christine, this is the first time you don't look like a boy in a dress." Though his statement hadn't come out right, I knew that he had meant well, and it let me know I was making progress.
The key to my healing was developing healthy same-sex friendships. As I did this, my sexual attractions for women naturally diminished because I found what I was looking for all along--real love and connections with others.
With God's help and the support of caring people, I have been walking in freedom from homosexuality for more than 10 years. I know that a changed life is possible because I am a changed person.
http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/christinesneeringerp397.php (http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/christinesneeringerp397.php)
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It seems to have worked for this young lady.
http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/christinesneeringerp397.php (http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/christinesneeringerp397.php)
I have a cousin, softball player also, who got saved went to church. Dated some homo christian for a few years and then went right back to the women. We'll see if this lady doesn't revert back. Most lesbians are bi-sexuals anyways.
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I have a cousin, softball player also, who got saved went to church. Dated some homo christian for a few years and then went right back to the women. We'll see if this lady doesn't revert back. Most lesbians are bi-sexuals anyways.
Well, as of the time of this article, she says she's been "free" (for lack of a better term) for about 10 years.
Ever seen the movie, "Higher Learning"? Remember what happened to the female main character in that one? Gal get raped (actually, she consented at a party but said "no", when the guy was trying to hump her without a rubber); she won't go the police, because she was drinking. Roommate is unsympathetic.
Later, she's befriended by a female political activist who just so happens to be gay. Next thing you know.....
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What in the hell are you talking about?
Be serious, man.
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here is more prove :D :D :D :D :D bam bam bam bam bam bam :D
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here is more prove :D :D :D :D :D bam bam bam bam bam bam :D
word on the street is he use to do voice overs :D
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I do say that.
Then you are the stupidest person alive. DING, DING. Give tuholmes the "Retard of the Month" award.
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Then you are the stupidest person alive. DING, DING. Give tuholmes the "Retard of the Month" award.
Wait... I'm the "retard" because I don't believe in the invisible guy in the sky who gets all the credit, but never has to take any of the blame.
Haha... right on.
Enjoy your god worship.
All the shit in this thread, and ALL you have to say is that I'm a retard because I don't believe in your "God"?
THAT is fucking retarded.
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What in the hell are you talking about?
Be serious, man.
If you've seen the movie, you'll get the point (maybe).
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She's not "cured". If she is gay she will always want a woman more than a man. She's doing her life a disservice by not being what God made her - homosexual.
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She's not "cured". If she is gay she will always want a woman more than a man. She's doing her life a disservice by not being what God made her - homosexual.
She says she DOES NOT want women any more at all. In fact, in an interview with the New York Times, posted on her site "Worthy Creations", s
"I believe, and God did this for me, that there can be resolution to the attractions and orientations," she responds, "real resolution where I don't have that kind of sexual response to women." She hesitates to use the word lust but admits that when she's dated men, she has fantasized about having sex with them. She says she no longer has such fantasies about women.
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She says she DOES NOT want women any more at all. In fact, in an interview with the New York Times, posted on her site "Worthy Creations", s
"I believe, and God did this for me, that there can be resolution to the attractions and orientations," she responds, "real resolution where I don't have that kind of sexual response to women." She hesitates to use the word lust but admits that when she's dated men, she has fantasized about having sex with them. She says she no longer has such fantasies about women.
Hahaha sure she doesn't. I'm sure she gets wet at the thought of a female tongue, probably what gets her through the sex with her husband.
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Hahaha sure she doesn't. I'm sure she gets wet at the thought of a female tongue, probably what gets her through the sex with her husband.
But, she's supposedly gay (once gay, always gay). She's not supposed to have any sexual attractions to men AT ALL, especially after having already done the lesbian thing.
But, then again, this would hardly be the first time a woman said she was gay, only to go back to being with men.
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But, she's supposedly gay (once gay, always gay). She's not supposed to have any sexual attractions to men AT ALL, especially after having already done the lesbian thing.
But, then again, this would hardly be the first time a woman said she was gay, only to go back to being with men.
(http://www.triviatribute.com/images4/anneheche5.jpg)
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I love how the communist rats are attacking this woman, who raised five of her own kids, and helped raise 23 foster kids, all over this.
Meanwhile, these same communist failure applaud degenerates like Barney Frank, Wiener, etc. who have never done a damn thing for anyone but make their lives worse off.
i'll take bachmann any day over the communist pukes these rats promote.
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I love how the communist rats are attacking this woman, who raised five of her own kids, and helped raise 23 foster kids, all over this.
Meanwhile, these same communist failure applaud degenerates like Barney Frank, Wiener, etc. who have never done a damn thing for anyone but make their lives worse off.
i'll take bachmann any day over the communist pukes these rats promote.
Communist, you wouldn't know one if they even hired you. You have nothing else to retort, so you use the word communist. We are pointing out the hypocracy of a blatantly, gay man, trying to pray the gay away of others. If you want to grow closer to a Theocracy in this country, have at it Hos. I don't even live in the U.S., but own property there. Maybe I can get some subsidies like the queen of subsidies, Michelle.
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Communist, you wouldn't know one if they even hired you. You have nothing else to retort, so you use the word communist. We are pointing out the hypocracy of a blatantly gay man, trying to pray the gay away of others. If you want to grow closer to a Theocracy in this country, have at it Hos. I don't even live in the U.S., but own property there. Maybe I can get some subsidies like the queen of subsidies Michelle.
I go by what the communist party 10 planks are are see who advocates most of it. Sadly enough, based on the 10 planks, most demos qualify, whether they like it or not.
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But, she's supposedly gay (once gay, always gay). She's not supposed to have any sexual attractions to men AT ALL, especially after having already done the lesbian thing.
But, then again, this would hardly be the first time a woman said she was gay, only to go back to being with men.
Seriously? You don't think people hide 'in the closet'? Hahaha man oh man are you clueless.
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lol tons of people hide in the closet, even in cultures where homosexuality is accepted.
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lol tons of people hide in the closet, even in cultures where homosexuality is accepted.
Exactly. Apparently though that means they aren't gay.
Such stupidity on this board sometimes.
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Exactly. Apparently though that means they aren't gay.
Such stupidity on this board sometimes.
sometimes? :D
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sometimes? :D
Oh you're right 333 posts EVERYDAY
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Oh you're right 333 posts EVERYDAY
There isn't a regular poster on this board that I didn't at one time or another fully agreed with. Even Samson! ;D
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Seriously? You don't think people hide 'in the closet'? Hahaha man oh man are you clueless.
Ummmm......if they were once lesbian but have gone back to being with men, THEY'VE ALREADY COME OUT OF THE CLOSET!!
You appear to be the clueless one, here.
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Ummmm......if they were once lesbian but have gone back to being with men, THEY'VE ALREADY COME OUT OF THE CLOSET!!
You appear to be the clueless one, here.
yeah, and maybe they are just a confused bi-sexual.
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lol tons of people hide in the closet, even in cultures where homosexuality is accepted.
bingo.
and "I can't be gay, I'm married and have children" excuse is always one of my favorites.
that's usually the last argument given before they ask, "ok, just be gentle and go slow"
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bingo.
and "I can't be gay, I'm married and have children" excuse is always one of my favorites.
that's usually the last argument given before they ask, "ok, just be gentle and go slow"
Yuk.
Reminder to myself - stay off some of these threads. Disgusting.
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bingo.
and "I can't be gay, I'm married and have children" excuse is always one of my favorites.
that's usually the last argument given before they ask, "ok, just be gentle and go slow"
HAHAHAHAHAAH
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Yuk.
Reminder to myself - stay off some of these threads. Disgusting.
after 4-5 beers, you;ll be back; your kind are always titillated by gay sex. ooooow, it's disgusting....and then you start to watch it. and then,...well, you know how these end...
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after 4-5 beers, you;ll be back; your kind are always titillated by gay sex. ooooow, it's disgusting....and then you start to watch it. and then,...well, you know how these end...
barf. I like a fat ass chick with big boobs and thats it. Keep your gay dreams of banging me to yourself. Disgusting
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Phobe alert
HAHAAHAAHAH
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Phobe alert
HAHAAHAAHAH
True. I don't give a fuck about it either. Call me racist, homophobic, islamophobic, obamaphobic, pelosiphobic, commiephobic, whatever.
It really doesnt bother me.
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True. I don't give a fuck about it either. Call me racist, homophobic, islamophobic, obamaphobic, pelosiphobic, commiephobic, whatever.
It really doesnt bother me.
I think you are denying your inner homo.
But don't be bothered by that. :D
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I think you are denying your inner homo.
But don't be bothered by that. :D
Nah - the simple gay test for me is the reaction I get when a booty chic walks by me vs some wierdo in skinny jeans.
One I want to bang (Booty chic), the other I want to toss off the Throgs Neck Bridge (Twink)
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Nah - the simple gay test for me is the reaction I get when a booty chic walks by me vs some wierdo in skinny jeans.
One I want to bang (Booty chic), the other I want to toss off the Throgs Neck Bridge (Twink)
You are prolly BI-sexual then.
which is terrible because the liberal progressives haven't got to you yet.
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You are prolly BI-sexual then.
which is terrible because the liberal progressives haven't got to you yet.
Not even close. Sorry - guys don't do it for me. I like women with curves, big butt and big titties
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Nah - the simple gay test for me is the reaction I get when a booty chic walks by me vs some wierdo in skinny jeans.
i understand about the twink thing. not everyone's taste.
Butt, it's those short, extra glances you give to the bodybuilder/muscled guy on the gym floor and locker room that hit your subconscious. then, the fear of being attracted starts, and, well, we get the written benefits from your reactions. ;)
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Ummmm......if they were once lesbian but have gone back to being with men, THEY'VE ALREADY COME OUT OF THE CLOSET!!
You appear to be the clueless one, here.
Uh it would appear they went back in the closet because if you are gay, you are always gay.
Or do you believe that one day you could in fact be turned into a homosexual?
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Uh it would appear they went back in the closet because if you are gay, you are always gay.
Or do you believe that one day you could in fact be turned into a homosexual?
Perhaps, if I ended up in prison (which ain't happening).
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Uh it would appear they went back in the closet because if you are gay, you are always gay.
Or do you believe that one day you could in fact be turned into a homosexual?
I've known women to "go lez" when they were physically abused... It never stays that way.
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I've known women to "go lez" when they were physically abused... It never stays that way.
That's what happened to the girl in "Higher Learning" after she got raped by a frat boy.
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Perhaps, if I ended up in prison (which ain't happening).
you might get raped in prison, but that's not what would 'turn' you gay.
if you had the tendencies and kept them repressed, then you might have an epiphany... ;)
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you might get raped in prison, but that's not what would 'turn' you gay.
if you had the tendencies and kept them repressed, then you might have an epiphany... ;)
I have heard enough stories from my friends father who is an ER surgeon about you gay freaks to puke for 10 lifetimes.
disgusting behavior.
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I have heard enough stories from my friends father who is an ER surgeon about you gay freaks to puke for 10 lifetimes.
disgusting behavior.
Just, wow.
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Just, wow.
Do you know how many "I had to sew up some dudes' asshole last night" stories I have heard?
Sorry - I have little tolerance for this deviant behavior.
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Do you know how many "I had to sew up some dudes' asshole last night" stories I have heard?
Sorry - I have little tolerance for this deviant behavior.
butt, you're ok with lesbians, just licking the kitty.... ;)
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butt, you're ok with lesbians, just licking the kitty.... ;)
I don't like that either and have not heard my friends' dad say he has had to sew up some lezbo's cooch due to aggresive licking.
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I don't like that either and have not heard my friends' dad say he has had to sew up some lezbo's cooch due to aggresive licking.
well, then, there you go...its all about the anus; as long as we dont mess with it, then you're ok.
see, just a little compromising here.
then again, you'll have to tell yur str8 buds that they can't be screwing their wives/gfs in the ass, either.
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marcus bachmann continues the lie... says the tape was doctored.
just OWN the situation and move on. Lying about it will make it worse.
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marcus bachmann continues the lie... says the tape was doctored.
just OWN the situation and move on. Lying about it will make it worse.
we are counting on that ! :D
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Still laughing at this story. :) The Palin-like attacks are in full swing. This will fall off the pages of every credible news organization, if it hasn't done so already. I'm sure The Daily Kos et al. will still be all over it.
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Still laughing at this story. :) The Palin-like attacks are in full swing..
the palin-like attacks will occur with whomever is a front runner.
It's just how politics is played. :D
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the palin-like attacks will occur with whomever is a front runner.
It's just how politics is played. :D
True. :-\
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Hilarious how Repubs on this board are pretending that Bachmann is being unjustly "attacked"
classic right wing victimhood
I still haven't heard one Repub explain why the Bachmanns are denying their own words and actions
Why not be proud of what they have done and said in the name of their faith and their personal relationship with Jeebus rather than deny it
denying it makes it looks that much worse