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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Meso_z on July 14, 2011, 07:10:00 AM
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What do you think?
We almost always relate soreness with great workouts..whats the truth.. ???
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50/50
There is a good soreness like stiff muscle type feel and the whole ripped/torn muscle feeling lol also if your to sore it can slow your muscle building progress WAY down cant it?
I hate it if im not sore the next day but thats just me.
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What do you think?
We almost always relate soreness with great workouts..whats the truth.. ???
My personal opinion?
I don't rely on DOMS as the gold measure of a good workout.
My first few sessions after a layoff will usually yield a great degree of post-workout soreness, but after that, it's hit & miss.
I've gone through plenty of workouts where I KNOW I trained hard, but am barely sore - if at all - 24-48 hours later.
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In all the years I've been training I get sore every single workout. Now I tend to take alot of time off due to business restraints and life in general. But I will make continual progress until for whatever reason I stop. Not natural though, so that may have something to due with my consistent improvement while hitting the gym. I do believe there is some validity to believe that soreness is a good indicator of success in the gym.
I get sore from every type of training regardless of weight, rep range or duration. As long as it is intense I will have doms for several days. I am obsessive about training, progressive overload, strategic deconditioning. This as well as consistent nutrition insure my progress stays on tract. In fact, the thing that hinders my progress and training the most is injuries due to getting too strong for my tendon strength.
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What do you think?
We almost always relate soreness with great workouts..whats the truth.. ???
It entirely depends upon how one has trained ,eg if you do something very different ie reps/poundages/sets/rest periods than your regular routine then your muscle is likely to feel the difference .Also the amount nutrition also undermines the duration of soreness.
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Yes it is...dont let anyonebtell u different....if your constantly pushing urself and changing up exercises,reps,weights along with changing the actually days you train(ex..idiots that always train chest on Monday etc)...if you do those things you will keep your workouts fresh and your.body guessing and you will be sore after nearly every workout...
Dont listen to the fools that say.after you train so long or get in a certain amount of shape you cant/dont get sore...i been liftin 20 years now and can still get just as sore as the 1ST TIME I LIFTED...It just takes more weight and a little more ingenuity.i have known pussy's that actually do all kinds of things to prevent themselves frome getting sore..what a bunch a slack jawed f@ggots u must be if u lift weights.yet doms bothers...i love being sore like all ur moms like there ass/pussy to be sore...no disrespect...long live getbig...stay negative...
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i wouldnt pay attention to it. focus on the mirror, measuring tape, and scale. anything else is subjective.
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No, soreness is never a gauge of progress, either in improving muscle mass or strength. The same as a good pump is never an indicator of doing anything but increasing the blocked and pooling of blood in any one muscle area.
Your body is never guessing but adapting, which requires steady stress (more weight and/or more reps per workout). Always changing (to keep a workout "fresh") the exercises/sets/reps before really working them to their full potential, after so many weeks/months, can be cheating yourself out of improvement.
You want to push yourself, but not to the point of making recovery from any workout that much harder. The CNS is the key for progress on a workout to workout bases. Making any workout short and to the point, plus avoiding going to failure, is a most important element is successful training.
Working out and making steady progress is pretty simple stuff...really. Good Luck.
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No, soreness is never a gauge of progress, either in improving muscle mass or strength. The same as a good pump is never an indicator of doing anything but increasing the blocked and pooling of blood in any one muscle area.
Your body is never guessing but adapting, which requires steady stress (more weight and/or more reps per workout). Always changing (to keep a workout "fresh") the exercises/sets/reps before really working them to their full potential, after so many weeks/months, can be cheating yourself out of improvement.
You want to push yourself, but not to the point of making recovery from any workout that much harder. The CNS is the key for progress on a workout to workout bases. Making any workout short and to the point, plus avoiding going to failure, is a most important element is successful training.
Working out and making steady progress is pretty simple stuff...really. Good Luck.
8)
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I know a lot of times I train my heart out and I almost never get sore. Now, a lot of times my muscles will feel completely run down and worn out, sometimes as long as 24 hours after the workout, but I almost never get sore. A lot of times when I do a lot of sets with low rep ranges (3-5 reps), my muscles will get an achy feeling and my joints will be sore - espeacially when I wake up in the morning, but no true soreness in the muscles. Personally I feel sorry for people who get sore after every workout. Who the fuck wants to be limping around all the time like a cripple? You should be able to enjoy your life outside the gym.
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My best bodypart -back -never sore
Worst bodypart - legs - always sore
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As MM2K suggest, you want the muscles to feel worked, and maybe fried a little,but there is no need for a muscle to feel sore for days after a workout. That is a false positive, like a good pump during and after a training session is misleading. When you reach a state of better conditioning, soreness should never be a major concern.
If any one has lifted more than 20 years and still gets as sore as their first time lifting, something is wrong with their training methods, body chemistry or recovery abilities or a combo of the three. Good Luck.
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Last few replies are shit. Do you people know anything about the physiology of the body? Damn! Yes you can grow with out getting sore. But at what rate? I want the fastest results possible not 5 lbs of muscle and 15lbs added to my lifts in the course of a year bullshit. Soreness is a very good indicator in general. PERIOD! IF YOU AREN'T GETTING SORE YOU'RE A COMPLACENT BITCH IN THE GYM.
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Last few replies are shit. Do you people know anything about the physiology of the body? Damn! Yes you can grow with out getting sore. But at what rate? I want the fastest results possible not 5 lbs of muscle and 15lbs added to my lifts in the course of a year bullshit. Soreness is a very good indicator in general. PERIOD! IF YOU AREN'T GETTING SORE YOU'RE A COMPLACENT BITCH IN THE GYM.
thank you...dudes are slack jawed fa@@ots...""oh oh if you still get sore like it's your first workout there's something wrong""haha..yea after 20 years of lifting it takes 420lbs on the bench press to get me sore like 120lbs did my first workout yet im doing something wrong...fuckin gumps i swear...
they are the same idiots that look the same year after year...the same one that when they see somene look better/lifting more they say oh i used to be bigger/stronger than you a few years back...oh brother...
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I wouldn't use soreness as a gauge of a good or bad training session, it's just a by product of training. I don't think it should it be purposely sought out or purposely avoided.
Lift heavy shit, if youre sore stretch. If you're not, and are making continued progress who gives a shit.
If your still sore from your previous session and it affects your next one, plan an extra day off in between.
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Last few replies are shit. Do you people know anything about the physiology of the body? Damn! Yes you can grow with out getting sore. But at what rate? I want the fastest results possible not 5 lbs of muscle and 15lbs added to my lifts in the course of a year bullshit. Soreness is a very good indicator in general. PERIOD! IF YOU AREN'T GETTING SORE YOU'RE A COMPLACENT BITCH IN THE GYM.
LOL didnt take long for this gimmick to come out of the closet...
many different ways to skin a cat bro...
I dont put to much emphasis on soreness
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Gimmick my ass. Did you read my post? Read some bud... soreness is a very good indicator of positive reactions to training. Specifically DOMS. The ignorance displayed is insufferable.
What the the fuck is up with peoples reading comprehension? Did I say you can't make progress without getting sore? NO! Numerous S&C coaches and doctors concur that it signifies the bodies natural reaction to increased, new or greater stimuli... which will there in turn do what for us? Help us adapt. Grow. Get stronger. Faster, whatever. I didn't say you need to be sore but it does significantly represent adequate work on our end in the gym. Got it? People take a few notes?
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Gimmick my ass. Did you read my post? Read some bud... soreness is a very good indicator of positive reactions to training. Specifically DOMS. The ignorance displayed is insufferable.
What the the fuck is up with peoples reading comprehension? Did I say you can't make progress without getting sore? NO! Numerous S&C coaches and doctors concur that it signifies the bodies natural reaction to increased, new or greater stimuli... which will there in turn do what for us? Help us adapt. Grow. Get stronger. Faster, whatever. I didn't say you need to be sore but it does significantly represent adequate work on our end in the gym. Got it? People take a few notes?
you seem to be under the impression that if you get sore you grow faster...
lets see a pic of this great physique built through always being sore lol
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Look though my post history I posted a pic several years ago... when I wasn't traing and was abroad still around two bills then... look I only have 78 posts easy find. Where's yours?
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Look though my post history I posted a pic several years ago... when I wasn't traing and was abroad still around two bills then... look I only have 78 posts easy find. Where's yours?
ive posted many pics search around, only 16k posts shouldnt take you to long lol
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didnt see any pics in your post history there bro
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Here a little help my post # 56 re: meh back. 3rd page on my post history. Click on the link. I am not searching through your 16k post for that.
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not to bad
bout a year ago
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=295241.0
so what proof do you have that being sore after a workout nets better progress?
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You look good then. I remember when that was posted. Much progress from when that was taken?
I have had the opportunities to help train many different individuals internationally and supervise their diet, training and record progress. NOTE: I did not create their programs merely supervised them tweaking what I thought was necessary etc... Through notes Ive kept and the results that manifested in them, and my own personal experiance I have seen people who workout to the point of being sore or having doms make greater progress then clients that don't get sore. Again I supervised their nutrition and training the only thing, the only variable I didn't supervise was rest and their personal activities.
Or you can even do a simple google search, read the articles. As I said before it is a sign your body has been taken to new places and must adapt to cope. DOMS is a sign of unusal or high level of stimulus. If the nutrition and proper recovery measures are taken the greater the body's ability, the more adaptative measures your body must take to adapt. This theory has been applied to many aspects of athletic training as well as bodybuilding. The consensus is the same almost across the board.
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You look good then. I remember when that was posted. Much progress from when that was taken?
I have had the opportunities to help train many different individuals internationally and supervise their diet, training and record progress. NOTE: I did not create their programs merely supervised them tweaking what I thought was necessary etc... Through notes Ive kept and the results that manifested in them, and my own personal experiance I have seen people who workout to the point of being sore or having doms make greater progress then clients that don't get sore. Again I supervised their nutrition and training the only thing, the only variable I didn't supervise was rest and their personal activities.
Or you can even do a simple google search, read the articles. As I said before it is a sign your body has been taken to new places and must adapt to cope. DOMS is a sign of unusal or high level of stimulus. If the nutrition and proper recovery measures are taken the greater the body's ability, the more adaptative measures your body must take to adapt. This theory has been applied to many aspects of athletic training as well as bodybuilding. The consensus is the same almost across the board.
yea but not to much, maybe a little leaner at about the same weight, like you life makes it hard to dedicate the necessary time week in and week out.
Im not disagreeing that doms is a sign of your body adapting...my point and the point of others in this thread is just b/c you dont get doms doesnt mean youre not making the same progress...
so you have your personal journals and experience for proof then?
and you were criticizing others reading abilities?
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DOMS is neither a positive or negative indicator that there is muscle growth/strength improvement. If people wish to believe that DOMS is a good thing, than that is their choice. But wishing never makes it so. There are exceptions to everything, so perhaps Mr Clavin & MrGut are the exception to any human response, recovery and adjustment basic rule. If their goal is to get "sore" every workout, than so be it. And more power to them.
If MrGut is a moderate to heavy drug user (as suggested by his past post) than that exceptional soreness he seeks must be really hard to obtain (on every workout). His workouts must be epic, Good Luck.
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I answered the topic starters question. Research, doctors say soreness is a good indicator of a good workout and that is what the question was. The truth is it is... not whether or not progress cannot be achieved without it. That is why I stand by my replies. Like I said before you don't think its an indicator of a good workout google DOMS... Look at the studies, articles that first come up backing what I say. Where is your proof DOMS is not what I say it is?
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MrGut: Does your research team suggest (meeting the requirements of DOMS) that this will produce progressive muscle mass & strength gains, from that good workout? Being from long term (3 to 6 months) data, on a workout to workout? And with at least 20 test subjects? All things being equal, a good workout to lab tech people does not always transfer over to experiences lifters in a serious gym. Good Luck.
Side Bar: with your serious drug use, would your success be the same without chemical engineering? Going for DOMs each workout, that is.
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soreness is definitely an indicator of an intense workout where the muscle is pushed past its limits.
but theres a cut off point where intensity no longer promotes growth but inhibits recovery and gains.
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soreness is definitely an indicator of an intense workout where the muscle is pushed past its limits.
but theres a cut off point where intensity no longer promotes growth but inhibits recovery and gains.
Of course. But that was not the topic starters question. I don't kill myself in the gym that's not what I am there to do, however, with a delineated program of what needs to happen when I enter the gym. I.E progressive overload on one or maybe two core exercises, sets of the day I will always be sore usually DOMS. Now I will do this either by the preferred methods, increased weight/reps. Or the shortening of rest periods, increasing time under tension, changing tempo, pausing on the negative portion or eccentric phase of the lift, a static hold on the concentic portion of the lift etc. You can see some of the methods lead naturally to soreness.
And yes it does. IF all other nutritional and recovery measures are taken. Yes more effort needs to be taken to recovery but the greater the adaptive response. That means alot of different things not only the amount of rest and nutrition but what is done physically(training, other things) to facilitate it.
I am currently training an individual whom I was putting though a very intense traing program yet refused to adapt his nutritional or dietary needs to accommodate the stresses caused by such a regime. He started to get weaker, smaller and basically burnt out after two weeks. I explained to him that unless requirements XYZ are met the greatest program and trainer means jackshit. After basically mommying him and bumped his calories up and convinced him to go to sleep at a decent hour he has since seen a 10 lbs increase in lean mass from his original starting weight as well as a very significant jump in strength, all in a week.
And no of course my progress wouldn't be as fast as if I train naturally. But regardless of whether I am on or not, i still have Doms and progress almost weekly, whether an increase in strength, stamina or size, progress is a constant. As mentioned before I do have many breaks in training but even when consistent for years at a time naturally I won't plateau, progress is much slower yes but it is always there in one or more of the above mentioned forms.
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MrGut: Does your research team suggest (meeting the requirements of DOMS) that this will produce progressive muscle mass & strength gains, from that good workout? Being from long term (3 to 6 months) data, on a workout to workout? And with at least 20 test subjects? All things being equal, a good workout to lab tech people does not always transfer over to experiences lifters in a serious gym. Good Luck.
Side Bar: with your serious drug use, would your success be the same without chemical engineering? Going for DOMs each workout, that is.
LOL this dude is a user?
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LOL this dude is a user?
?????? Again reading comprehension? My first post in this thread says I am not natural. The pic you saw was after a complete 4 month lay off and clean for about 2 years, no pump to make myself look bigger.
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If MrGut is a moderate to heavy drug user (as suggested by his past post) than that exceptional soreness he seeks must be really hard to obtain (on every workout). His workouts must be epic, Good Luck.
In all the years I've known you, this has got to be the first time I've seen you use the word "epic" in your verbiage.
;D
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?????? Again reading comprehension? My first post in this thread says I am not natural. The pic you saw was after a complete 4 month lay off and clean for about 2 years, no pump to make myself look bigger.
hahahahahahah, the pic you saw was me after years of continual work outs in which i didnt get sore every work out and lifetime natural...
i think my "personal experience" is just as good if not better than yours hoss ;)
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Ok ok im impressed! Let's see you now in different shots to se what you really look like.
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Ok ok im impressed! Let's see you now in different shots to se what you really look like.
plenty of pics and videos of me on getbig my friend, im no mystery...
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Montague: Yeah, soon as I posted that I wondered ,WTF did I use that word? Going for unforgettable. Never happen again.
TMcTones: Maybe he's hinting that he wants a personal pic of you sent to him,with a handwritten note from you on it. You know, something sincere and warm. Don't know why but McGut reminds me of Pumpster. Fuzzy logic and all.
Tbombz: You explained it best about the soreness thing.
Good Luck.