Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: SF1900 on July 15, 2011, 10:10:55 PM
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What is this whole business on over-training? We often hear this word thrown around. Does it even exist? Are there any studies that indicate that doing a certain amount of sets is considered "over-training?" Is there any scientific evidence that 'over-training" actually exists.
Also, who do you think had a better back, Ronnie or Dorian? :-\ :-\
(http://fullspike.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders/_images/dorian-vs-ronnie/dorian-yates-vs-ronnie-coleman-back_533x400.png)
More comparisons
(http://fullspike.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders/_images/dorian-vs-ronnie/ronnie-coleman-vs-dorian-yates-poster_533x400.png)
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Of course it exists.
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Of course it exists.
Evidence? Let me some peer reviewed journals. Just saying it exists doesn't mean it actually exists, kind of like your God :-\ :-\
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i feel stronger and get a better pump after a few days off.
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Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think. It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months. You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc. That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
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Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think. It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months. You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc. That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
true and i think overtraining is way too overrated.....it's impossible for you to overtrain unless you're training 7 days a week with no proper nutrition....
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Evidence? Let me some peer reviewed journals. Just saying it exists doesn't mean it actually exists, kind of like your God :-\ :-\
do heavy bench press every day and then get back to me
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Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think. It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months. You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc. That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
Good thoughts..
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if you define overtraining according to whatever bizarre criteria the cyclists / runners / sports and conditioning folks use, i'm sure the answer is yes... but when this question pops up it's usually a case of people confusing terms.
as far as i know this term refers to a condition which has a strict definition within certain disciplines. however, normally a young bodybuilder doesn't know the first thing about this business and just wants to know if you can train too much. OF COURSE YOU CAN! Like someone earlier posted, go bench press for ten thousand reps every day... see if you make any progress at all. Now, of course, the young man will ask "well what about this program" and probably list his split complete with sets and reps. There's no way to tell, for the most part, just by looking at this information if one is doing too much training. It depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on whether you are doing sensible training.
If you have technique down and don't try to annihilate yourself and then come back two days later, still sore as hell, you will probably make progress and won't have to worry about doing too much. However, if you don't know how to squat and go down with a round lower back, for example, then I would argue that even ONE REP is overtraining. It's too much training... because even one shitty rep is worse than zero shitty reps. In my opinion, if you know what you are doing and aren't overeager, then whether you do 5 sets, 8 sets, or 10 sets won't make the difference between "overtraining" and progress. If you get through five sets and feel great, and then try to do five more and kill your pump, start grinding reps like crazy, stop feeling muscle sensation, just to say you did it or convince yourself that you put in the extra effort, or whatever, then you are going to fuck yourself up via too much training. Knowing when to stop isn't hard. Just clear your mind of all prejudices for "hard work," listen to your body, and you won't "overtrain."
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neurotransmitters
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lmao @ "Bodybuilders" who think they "overtrain". :D
an hour of "lifting things up and putting them down" leaves them "exausted" ... yet I didnt hear any olympic lifter or cyclist or gymnast complain that he "feels sore". ::)
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12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.
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lmao @ "Bodybuilders" who think they "overtrain". :D
an hour of "lifting things up and putting them down" leaves them "exausted" ... yet I didnt hear any olympic lifter or cyclist or gymnast complain that he "feels sore". ::)
it has nothing to do with being "exhausted"...it has everything to do with not allowing for proper recovery which is essential to the idea of building muscle tissue.
And the reason you don't hear of any Olympic lifter, cyclist or gymnast complaining of being " sore" is that aren't on a carb restricted diet for 12 weeks in their prep....
ever sport has their cross to bear when it comes to training, etc...all have their individual challenges, everyone thinks they have it tough...until they try someone else's program. All in perspective.
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Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think. It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months. You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc. That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
Very well said.
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12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.
That makes a certain intuitive sense (12 sets seems a little arbitrary, though). But ...
A. as Mentzer used to say, recovery ability is probably as varied as height (Peter Dinklage vs. Shaq) or skin tone. I've seen extreme ectomorph types for whom even 12 sets thrice weekly would overtrain them after a couple of months, max.
To that end, we can't really say X sets/day is ever tolerable for everybody.
B. it also depends on the kind of sets we're talking about. 12 sets/bodypart for 10 reps with 50% 1RM shouldn't be problematic for most. 12 sets to failure, let alone beyond ...
Eh. The average guy might be able to tolerate that for awhile, but it sounds an awful lot like what I see most local gym rats do. They're the same guys who bench 225 for a 10 RM year after year, so they're doing something wrong.
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12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.
Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...
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Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...
I'd forgotten that one ;D
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Course it fucking exists. The body only has a limited recovery ability. It does not have a limitless capacity to handle any kind of stress.
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Football players hospitalized recently due to exercise induced rhabdomyolisis? I'd say that constitutes "overtraining".
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Yes it exists, but so does "under-training".
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Yes it exists, but so does "under-training".
Says the "man" whose "workouts" consist of a set of 15 lb dumbell curls and 10 lb side laterals once a week. Don't you have a hunk of Velveeta to eat?
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Says the "man" whose "workouts" consist of a set of 15 lb dumbell curls and 10 lb side laterals once a week. Don't you have a hunk of Velveeta to eat?
Well, I stopped that nosense, joined a gym, and now I train with moderate volume, as I was indeed "under-training". Still don't train legs though.
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Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...
;D
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it has nothing to do with being "exhausted"...it has everything to do with not allowing for proper recovery which is essential to the idea of building muscle tissue.
And the reason you don't hear of any Olympic lifter, cyclist or gymnast complaining of being " sore" is that aren't on a carb restricted diet for 12 weeks in their prep....
ever sport has their cross to bear when it comes to training, etc...all have their individual challenges, everyone thinks they have it tough...until they try someone else's program. All in perspective.
u really do live in a fantasy world, dont u old man
dont even try to peddle your crap that carb restricted diets for a couple of weeks are so taxing on the body-what about special forces soldiers who endure small amounts of foods and high stress for months on end, or prisoners of war who endure torture and little food and yet stil function-bodybuilding is far from a sport-
lifing weights and walking on a teadmill a few times a week is far from a hard sport-and to try and compare it to real sports is disrspectful to real athletes
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Well, I stopped that nosense, joined a gym, and now I train with moderate volume, as I was indeed "under-training". Still don't train legs though.
good man!
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Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think. It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months. You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc. That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
this
also, I believe there is a optimal interval between training session that yields the best strenght and volume gains and anything shorter than that could be considered overtraining eventhouth you are not destroying muscle per se. And we are talking about muscles here, with joints it is even more obvious. Try traning chest and delts hard everyday for 4 days and get back to getbig and tell us how you feel, if you would still be able to lif your arm and type in a keyboard that is,
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Evidence? Let me some peer reviewed journals. Just saying it exists doesn't mean it actually exists, kind of like your God :-\ :-\
Seriously? C'mon people. Does anyone on here actually do any training research or you guys, as an example.....who say "overtraining doesn't exist" just lay awake at night trying to figure out ways to stir bullshit controversy like this. For fucks sake, don't just go to the gym and lifts weights and follow the next best routine out of Flex or Muscle and Fitness. Do some research for Gods sake instead of talking out your asses.
Like yesterday for example, there was a thread started a PT (Physical Therapist) who was running a series of vids for mobility, flexibility, rehab and pre-hab and even though I'm assuming (at least you didn't make known in that thread) the posters in that thread knew NOTHING about what he was talking about you still criticized him, called him an idiot and said he didn't know what he was talking about....as if you clowns knew!
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Try this experiment:
Do as many pushups as you can on a day when you are rested up. Act as if someone is betting money on each pushup.
Do this every day.
See how long it takes before you are actually doing less, than more.
When you want to try and increase your best pushup count, see how many days of rest it takes before you can do that on a consistent basis.
To be fair, you have to basically do everything else in your day the same way. You cant do them one day after you've done a line of meth, and then three days later when you are so tired you can't read this post.
What is "over-training?" Is it the CNS getting overloaded too consistently? Is it the muscles being broken down and never having a chance to recover? Can you actually train your body effectively when your CNS is completely exhausted (regardless of the cause?)
CNS = Central Nervous System
I don't believe that our bodies will function well in ANY capacity when the CNS is exhausted. This is where CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) start rearing its ugly head.
Who knows? Could be all bullshit and just in your head. ;D
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good man!
Thanks man, I was kinda trapped in this Mentzer-HIT doctrine, but it wasn't optimal training. Some volume is needed, and it's not good to train til failure all the time. In my experience you need to train heavy to stress the muscle, but it's not wise to push to failure all the time, and the old adage "stimulate, but don't annihilate" is very true. I was looking through some old posts by this fella called nolotil, and man, this fella is pretty much spot on with his training recommendations. So, I gotta give props to that dude ;D
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my version of overtraining is pain in joints and reduced strength / willingness to train.
shit, i must overtrain every week then.
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Thanks man, I was kinda trapped in this Mentzer-HIT doctrine, but it wasn't optimal training. Some volume is needed, and it's not good to train til failure all the time. In my experience you need to train heavy to stress the muscle, but it's not wise to push to failure all the time, and the old adage "stimulate, but don't annihilate" is very true. I was looking through some old posts by this fella called nolotil, and man, this fella is pretty much spot on with his training recommendations. So, I gotta give props to that dude ;D
What will your philosophy be like next week? :-X
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Thanks man, I was kinda trapped in this Mentzer-HIT doctrine, but it wasn't optimal training. Some volume is needed, and it's not good to train til failure all the time. In my experience you need to train heavy to stress the muscle, but it's not wise to push to failure all the time, and the old adage "stimulate, but don't annihilate" is very true. I was looking through some old posts by this fella called nolotil, and man, this fella is pretty much spot on with his training recommendations. So, I gotta give props to that dude ;D
good to see your goals are more important than being right or wrong in a internet message board. So you revaluated things and changed course, thats great. You already achieved a good physique in the past so chances are great that you will do it again. fucking go for it.
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good to see your goals are more important than being right or wrong in a internet message board. So you revaluated things and changed course, thats great. You already achieved a good physique in the past so chances are great that you will do it again. fucking go for it.
Thanks man, I'm just afraid that I may be too much of an old man nowadays, since I'm 37 :-\ But, I'll try and give it a go. Are you still following the one bodypart per day training routine?
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Thanks man, I'm just afraid that I may be too much of an old man nowadays, since I'm 37 :-\ But, I'll try and give it a go. Are you still following the one bodypart per day training routine?
yes
mon chest
tues back, calves
wed legs
thurs traps, shoulder
friday arms
suits me perfectly