Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: NordicNerd on July 27, 2011, 06:33:41 AM
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After seing the recent pics of Gaspari, I wonder: What causes the change in appearance, especially of biceps and triceps? Gasparis arms look like his muscle-bellies have gradually been replaced with tendons, like some ongoing muscle tearing? Both triceps and biceps are now very short, and much shorter than when he was young.
Other older pros does not have this problem. For instance Robby Robinson: http://www.robbyrobinson.net/
You can also see this in younger pros. The worst example is Branch Warren, but King Kamali is another example. Both Warren and Kamali has that "creeping" insertion think going on, where it gradually gets worse.
What is the cause of this? Constant micro-tearing due to sloppy form and momentum with too heavy weights? Or something else? Any relationship with palumboism? Visually, there is a resemblance.
NN
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I noticed the same thing with colemans biceps after circa 2005-2006. In 2007 his arms looked like shit in the FDB pose eventhough they were still big and ripped.
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I dunno I think his biceps are just smaller.
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I heard a theory that over time, muscles shorten from hypertrophy. They get bigger, thicker, occupy more volume, but the attachments get longer and thus the muscle gets a bit shorter.
Not sure if it's true but it makes sense.
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I dunno I think his biceps are just smaller.
x2 I can't think of a reason why the muscle would shorten... ??? ???
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Age and not on same amounts as when competing
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maybe muscles arent meant to be hammered compulsively all life long, maybe it's quite an extremistic, vain occupation especially when all your life revolves around it... Maybe it's the proof you should be doing other things at some point.
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After seing the recent pics of Gaspari, I wonder: What causes the change in appearance, especially of biceps and triceps? Gasparis arms look like his muscle-bellies have gradually been replaced with tendons, like some ongoing muscle tearing? Both triceps and biceps are now very short, and much shorter than when he was young.
Other older pros does not have this problem. For instance Robby Robinson: http://www.robbyrobinson.net/
You can also see this in younger pros. The worst example is Branch Warren, but King Kamali is another example. Both Warren and Kamali has that "creeping" insertion think going on, where it gradually gets worse.
What is the cause of this? Constant micro-tearing due to sloppy form and momentum with too heavy weights? Or something else? Any relationship with palumboism? Visually, there is a resemblance.
NN
I heard once that Gaspari used terrible form, STARTED off as a powerlifter, and basically when he transitioned to bodybuilding did anything to get massive weights up. It was much later he learned about form, feel, isolation but by then it was too late... genetically he was left with a huge, but short-inserted muscles. Mostly his arms were the worst, but the rest was pretty good IMHO.
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Age and not on same amounts as when competing
Yes + lower dosages for sure, I forgot this point in my analysis.
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I see this a lot with forearms. Jay and Branch are perfect examples. Compare recent pics of them to ones taken several years ago. You can see how their forearms are all tendon now. They didn't start out that way.
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rich looks awesome.. if he took what he was back then and gained the size all back the arms would appear fuller.. being smaller will give that look..
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I'm bumping this. As I am getting older I notice I've lost some of my muscle belly esp on my left tricep where it inserts on the elbow. So where once my tri would tie in really low on my elbow, there is now a tendonis gap of maybe 1-2 inches before the muscle starts. U see it in a lot of older men.
Funny how if a guy starts lifting n juicing late in life like someone posted a vid recently of some old guy, not Colbert, if u start late many still have full muscle bellies cuz they worked desk jobs their whole lives n never abused their muscle.
I think some of the m belly loss comes from constant injury not just from lifting but working hard manual labor jobs all your life.
Comments?
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Thats why Levrones approach was smarter for longevity.
Go full blast for 4 months then fuck off for the rest of the year.
And you need some heavy sets in there for optimal growth. But every exercise doesn't need to be.
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Gaspari and labrada currently both look like they abuse the shit out of GH
Gaspari looks terrible, wide waist, deformed face and arms
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I always thought GH had something to do with it....like maybe it causes the tendons to grow (lengthen). I am about the same age as Jay and Branch or older and have been training just as long but have not noticed any muscle shortening yet. Have never taken GH and only started experimenting with gear around the age of 34-35. Older guys on GH all have that same look....that melted shiny skin look....Gaspari, Stallone, Cahling, Labrada etc.
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After seing the recent pics of Gaspari, I wonder: What causes the change in appearance, especially of biceps and triceps? Gasparis arms look like his muscle-bellies have gradually been replaced with tendons, like some ongoing muscle tearing? Both triceps and biceps are now very short, and much shorter than when he was young.
Other older pros does not have this problem. For instance Robby Robinson: http://www.robbyrobinson.net/
You can also see this in younger pros. The worst example is Branch Warren, but King Kamali is another example. Both Warren and Kamali has that "creeping" insertion think going on, where it gradually gets worse.
What is the cause of this? Constant micro-tearing due to sloppy form and momentum with too heavy weights? Or something else? Any relationship with palumboism? Visually, there is a resemblance.
NN
Just saying that I made this exact post like two months ago stating this very thing, right after the genova video. It's from lack of stretching and poor form causing microtrauma and spindle shortening. His is wrecked.
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They just shorten from age. I notice in my legs and arms.
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Even back in the day he looked like shit. Most overrated bodybuilder of all time.
Narrow clavicles, short arms, potato head, wide waist, back poses sucked, no separation, etc...
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Just saying that I made this exact post like two months ago stating this very thing, right after the genova video. It's from lack of stretching and poor form causing microtrauma and spindle shortening. His is wrecked.
I'm theorizing its a myriad of things. I don't do drugs. U can see this phenom in non bb too. It happens to reg working stiffs too as they age. It seems to me that tricep shortening is the most common. I'm
Gonna start stretching more. Always did have good form. Also getting that lil pointy elbow syndrome a bit. Just years n years of lifting I guess.
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I think its nothing more than age but made worse by years of drug abuse. I have seen weight trainers that were natural their entire lives that look better (not bigger) than these guys. Their bodies are not worn out internally. They still have what one might call a look of health, while Coleman and Gaspari have begun to epitomize the look of hell.
Sad, but they knew what they were doing (overdosing) and now they're paying the price.
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It's genetics. Some people, when they age..they age hard and fall apart. They turn into old men.
Others (like me) basically retain who we are, just a wrinkle here or there gives away that we aren't kids anymore
The first group are what is known as "shitty people"
The second are known as "great people"
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It's genetics. Some people, when they age..they age hard and fall apart. They turn into old men.
Others (like me) basically retain who we are, just a wrinkle here or there gives away that we aren't kids anymore
The first group are what is known as "shitty people"
The second are known as "great people"
Ah...Now we sees. You be on of the the Dunedain from Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings. Those blessed with long life and genetics of the godlets and such. ;D
In other words, still buffed after all these years. Well done, man. Good morning! Good to see you again, brother!
(http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/427838/tolk-700x437.jpg)
;D
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I'm theorizing its a myriad of things. I don't do drugs. U can see this phenom in non bb too. It happens to reg working stiffs too as they age. It seems to me that tricep shortening is the most common. I'm
Gonna start stretching more. Always did have good form. Also getting that lil pointy elbow syndrome a bit. Just years n years of lifting I guess.
It's definitely tight muscle, poke around in your triceps, any trigger points? sensitive areas? when you get these it's due to the muscle cell, the myocyte, not wanting to die. The constant stress, whether postural, hyperonicity etc causes massive calcium influx, in order for the cell not to undergo auto oxidation it basically knots itself to avoid this fate, making it an ostensible scar tissue. If you have trigger points and sore points, get them out first as strecthing wont do it. To remove the trigger point, you need ischemia, no oxygen, forcing the cell to release.
That's my theory
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Annnnnd that's why I don't lift so heavy anymore that my max sets have me thinking "fuck, one more rep and I'm tearing a muscle".
Call it lifting like a pussy, but I've lifted heavier than most people my size and have nothing to prove. If you tear a muscle, it's over. He's got 14"guns that look like 200 year old tree branches. I lift heavy enough to challenge the muscle asked find that going too heavy doesn't permit a strong mind muscle connection. Bodybuilding requires some moderately heavy lifting with a strong focus on quality time under tension, and I believe a good pump can help too. Ultra heavy lifting is too reckless and has too many dangers to be warranted, IMHO.
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Annnnnd that's why I don't lift so heavy anymore that my max sets have me thinking "fuck, one more rep and I'm tearing a muscle".
Call it lifting like a pussy, but I've lifted heavier than most people my size and have nothing to prove. If you tear a muscle, it's over. He's got 14"guns that look like 200 year old tree branches. I lift heavy enough to challenge the muscle asked find that going too heavy doesn't permit a strong mind muscle connection. Bodybuilding requires some moderately heavy lifting with a strong focus on quality time under tension, and I believe a good pump can help too. Ultra heavy lifting is too reckless and has too many dangers to be warranted, IMHO.
Yep.
Once your mind switches from working the muscle and getting a strong contraction..to "oh fuck I hope I get this rep" you're training too heavy.
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gaspari trains like an ego lifter did you guys see his training video with genova?
needs to use his brain
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Yep.
Once your mind switches from working the muscle and getting a strong contraction..to "oh fuck I hope I get this rep" you're training too heavy.
The only thing you can show from that sort of lifting is an eventual torn muscle.
Even at my absolute best I've felt a twing or a twang unexpectedly and even with lighter weights. Doing trillions of reps in a lifetime means there's a huge opportunity to fuck something up. I try mitigating my risk by not being a retarded shitstain and it's done me well so far. ;D
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I think it's a drug thing and not heavy weights. If you take anabolic steroids, straight testosterone, growth hormone, anti estrogens, insulin, LH hormone, thyroid, speed, diuretics and maybe even EPO your body is going to fall apart. Plumboism, where your body just doesn't respond to the drugs the way it use to.
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Annnnnd that's why I don't lift so heavy anymore that my max sets have me thinking "fuck, one more rep and I'm tearing a muscle".
Call it lifting like a pussy, but I've lifted heavier than most people my size and have nothing to prove. If you tear a muscle, it's over. He's got 14"guns that look like 200 year old tree branches. I lift heavy enough to challenge the muscle asked find that going too heavy doesn't permit a strong mind muscle connection. Bodybuilding requires some moderately heavy lifting with a strong focus on quality time under tension, and I believe a good pump can help too. Ultra heavy lifting is too reckless and has too many dangers to be warranted, IMHO.
Good stuff here. Older trainers really need to heed this advice. I've been barbell curling only about 70-90lbs... the mind muscle connection is great and pump is fantastic. Doesn't look very impressive, but who gives a fuck. I can't even feel my bi's working if I use anything over 100lbs.
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I think it's a drug thing and not heavy weights. If you take anabolic steroids, straight testosterone, growth hormone, anti estrogens, insulin, LH hormone, thyroid, speed, diuretics and maybe even EPO your body is going to fall apart. Plumboism, where your body just doesn't respond to the drugs the way it use to.
Most drugs make your body brittle. I don't care if someone's jacked and shredded, if they push too hard they'll burn out quickly. I use juice but low doses and don't blow out my muscles every workout.
Palumbo stage you're big and lean but insides are destroyed and body starts to morph in a very bad way.
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when you getting older,should lift lighter and higher reps with full range.
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It's genetics. Some people, when they age..they age hard and fall apart. They turn into old men.
Others (like me) basically retain who we are, just a wrinkle here or there gives away that we aren't kids anymore
The first group are what is known as "shitty people"
The second are known as "great people"
Hahaha ;D
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It's genetics. Some people, when they age..they age hard and fall apart. They turn into old men.
Others (like me) basically retain who we are, just a wrinkle here or there gives away that we aren't kids anymore
The first group are what is known as "shitty people"
The second are known as "great people"
LOL ;D
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It's definitely tight muscle, poke around in your triceps, any trigger points? sensitive areas? when you get these it's due to the muscle cell, the myocyte, not wanting to die. The constant stress, whether postural, hyperonicity etc causes massive calcium influx, in order for the cell not to undergo auto oxidation it basically knots itself to avoid this fate, making it an ostensible scar tissue. If you have trigger points and sore points, get them out first as strecthing wont do it. To remove the trigger point, you need ischemia, no oxygen, forcing the cell to release.
That's my theory
Can you elaborate on this?
How would you accomplish the ischemia? Occlusion training? What else?
Have you seen this work -on yourself or anyone else?
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Can you elaborate on this?
How would you accomplish the ischemia? Occlusion training? What else?
Have you seen this work -on yourself or anyone else?
massage is a form of ischemia, just pressure straight on the trigger point will cause release. Dry needling is the best, basically you take an acupuncture needle and stick it in the trigger point and it will release. Compression (manual) or acupuncture will work.
I have seen and do it constantly. Just feel the muscle for knots and sore points, it's usually a restriction or trigger point that has to be worked through for full contraction.
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This happens not for everyone, far from that, so it depends...
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Not stretccing
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A lot of these guys are type II Diabetics...Which I believe is one of many causes of Palumboism...Diabetes and nerve damage go hand and hand...
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Ask Mel Gibson
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A lot of these guys are type II Diabetics...Which I believe is one of many causes of Palumboism...Diabetes and nerve damage go hand and hand...
That's a really good point actually, the probably have neuropathy.
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I have been waiting all this time to reply to this most fascinating topic........
So I was training in my former gym recently, the olympic lifting gym with the old nagging coach running the show.
I was pumping out 11 reps with 120kg shoulder width bench press really good form no locking out to make it harder on the muscles.
Now this old man says
"Huh... you not locking out .... why?"
"to keep the tension on the muscles and make it easier on the elbows" i say
"partial reps like that indeed have that advantage" he says
"but also have a disadvantage!!!!!!!! because you are not doing full rom you are over time shortening the muscle belly and the longer a muscle belly the better it looks when contracted in a pose, there fore you must train with full rom"
my mind exploded with doubts and millions of questions and the issue has given me no rest since
only vanwilderbas can solve this !
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I have been waiting all this time to reply to this most fascinating topic........
So I was training in my former gym recently, the olympic lifting gym with the old nagging coach running the show.
I was pumping out 11 reps with 120kg shoulder width bench press really good form no locking out to make it harder on the muscles.
Now this old man says
"Huh... you not locking out .... why?"
"to keep the tension on the muscles and make it easier on the elbows" i say
"partial reps like that indeed have that advantage" he says
"but also have a disadvantage!!!!!!!! because you are not doing full rom you are over time shortening the muscle belly and the longer a muscle belly the better it looks when contracted in a pose, there fore you must train with full rom"
my mind exploded with doubts and millions of questions and the issue has given me no rest since
only vanwilderbas can solve this !
Brandon Lilly and Eric Spoto believe the same when it comes to tricep development. Brandon made a good point that if you take a lifter who doesn't lockout and add up all those reps not locked out over the years it will make a significant difference. So Brandon Lilly trains EVERY rep to lockout...even warmups. He said since doing this he has seen increase in strength on the bench.
I dunno about the whole shortening and lengthening but it makes perfect logical sense when it comes to tricep development both size and strength.
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I'm bumping this. As I am getting older I notice I've lost some of my muscle belly esp on my left tricep where it inserts on the elbow. So where once my tri would tie in really low on my elbow, there is now a tendonis gap of maybe 1-2 inches before the muscle starts. U see it in a lot of older men.
Funny how if a guy starts lifting n juicing late in life like someone posted a vid recently of some old guy, not Colbert, if u start late many still have full muscle bellies cuz they worked desk jobs their whole lives n never abused their muscle.
I think some of the m belly loss comes from constant injury not just from lifting but working hard manual labor jobs all your life.
Comments?
Electricity. Not paying attention?
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Brandon Lilly and Eric Spoto believe the same when it comes to tricep development. Brandon made a good point that if you take a lifter who doesn't lockout and add up all those reps not locked out over the years it will make a significant difference. So Brandon Lilly trains EVERY rep to lockout...even warmups. He said since doing this he has seen increase in strength on the bench.
I dunno about the whole shortening and lengthening but it makes perfect logical sense when it comes to tricep development both size and strength.
goddamnit that old fart is always right?
or just broken clock right twice a day
let's see his other claims
he said
-musclesnatch is a supreme back exercise for a bodybuilder
-push press really trains upperchest like nothing else
-parallel to the floor barbel rows anything else is bullshit
-you must always train chest pressing in super set with lat pull downs to avoid shortening of the muscles in the chest
all this sounds like bullshit but i dont know what to believe anymore
please somebody page vanwilderbas
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I'm curious as to whether drugs over the years also contribute to this. I'm no expert by any means but here's my guess
Insulin, activates satellite cells into new muscle tissue. And then you have things like gh, mgf1 igf1, and the assortment. All of which basically mutate the actual muscle belly. Steroids make existing muscle grow. But gh slin, mgf etc. Actually mutate the cells. Enough to cause this, I have no idea, but it's just a thought.
I'm curious as to if anyone here knows the reason?
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what about lack of stretching and too much buildup of basal tension levels in the muscles?
maybe bodybuilders should incorporate yoga
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Prolonged abuse of Growth Hormone coupled w/ the abuse of insulin..... Remember the main mechanisms behind IGF-1s functions... One function being- Increased skeletal growth...This mechanism does not discriminate... as one is likely to see overgrowth of vertebral foramen (Canal that allows spinal cord to exit to it's corresponding anatomical regions) Unfortunately, one usually observes one side impinging on the nerve more than the other... Here, less nerve stimulation and efficiency of the contraction...and other endless circumstances surrounding this.... Why all the atrophic looking muscles seen on one side?!?! Here u go fellas... bone has to grow and there is a reason why our homeostatic body tells it to stop when it is supposed to.... There is such thing as "too much of a good thing"
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Keep abusing GH consistently for years .. This will inevitably happen..... your training regimens and nutrition won't be able to put up a fight against the power of physiology...
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Stick needles in your arms every day for two decades
Report back with results on what happens to the tissue
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Stick needles in your arms every day for two decades
Report back with results on what happens to the tissue
most bodybuilders are afraid of injecting the arm because scar tissue can tear the bicep easily ???
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most bodybuilders are afraid of injecting the arm because scar tissue can tear the bicep easily ???
U a totally forgetting real Leopold 'injecting posts' ??? ::) senor IMITACION :D
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If you master electromagnetism and aerospace engineering these answers will be implicitly known.
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today I trained arms and tried to lock out my narrow grip bench presses because of this thread. It was a really bad experience
I normally get about 12 reps with 120kg without locking out the elbows, just pumping up and down, now I could only get like 6, which was strange because generally locking out makes it easier not harder? like normally when i nearly fail on 11th rep of no locking out, and lock out for the last one, the last rep is really easy...
So other things I noticed.... it's harder to balance tha bar because you are not in a smooth groove, i felt my dominant stronger tricep (right) work a lot harder than the left... also i found my chest was really doing a lot of work at the top of the motion (the one i normally dont do)
i have really long arms
i am very confused and dont know what to do with my life now
to lock out or not to lockout that's the question
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when you getting older,should lift lighter and higher reps with full range.
Good advice. Most guys who lifted heavy in their teens,20's, 30's 40's and into the early 50's realize all the damage they have done and the way the body just doesn't work the way it use to. I found using moderate weights with higher reps the body starts responding again. It's just a new stimulus to adapt to.
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today I trained arms and tried to lock out my narrow grip bench presses because of this thread. It was a really bad experience
I normally get about 12 reps with 120kg without locking out the elbows, just pumping up and down, now I could only get like 6, which was strange because generally locking out makes it easier not harder? like normally when i nearly fail on 11th rep of no locking out, and lock out for the last one, the last rep is really easy...
So other things I noticed.... it's harder to balance tha bar because you are not in a smooth groove, i felt my dominant stronger tricep (right) work a lot harder than the left... also i found my chest was really doing a lot of work at the top of the motion (the one i normally dont do)
i have really long arms.
i am very confused and dont know what to do with my life now
to lock out or not to lockout that's the question
^^
Don't go so narrow, maybe move your hands apart another inch, plus add a little more weight you should be struggling to get 8 reps on this exercise... it's supposed to be low-rep/heavy all the way.
If all else fails, do skull crushers with an E-Z curl bar (eliminates wrist pain).
P.S. You do not HAVE to lock out, it benefits the joints to go just a little short of locking out! Segio Oliva trained that way...
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maybe muscles arent meant to be hammered compulsively all life long, maybe it's quite an extremistic, vain occupation especially when all your life revolves around it... Maybe it's the proof you should be doing other things at some point.
Hahahah so true.
Used to see a guy at the gym who was about 40-45 years old. Jacked & roided up. Looked like a monster. Had the steroid red skin glow year round and arms were as vascular as a cock.
It was hilarious to see him druve up in a rusted out jeep Cherokee with mismatched wheels and cracked windshield. I think he said a prayer before he started it EVERYtime
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Hahahah so true.
Used to see a guy at the gym who was about 40-45 years old. Jacked & roided up. Looked like a monster. Had the steroid red skin glow year round and arms were as vascular as a cock.
It was hilarious to see him druve up in a rusted out jeep Cherokee with mismatched wheels and cracked windshield. I think he said a prayer before he started it EVERYtime
Rock crawling rigs are always battered up. It's pointless to fix them because next weekend there's going to be more carnage.