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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: coltrane on July 31, 2011, 07:17:08 PM
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Hand Positioning on barbell presses..
Often I see guys using a more narrow position (Cutler for instance ) and never going close to lockout. I'm not talking about close grips either for triceps.
Its almost about shoulder width.
Thought?
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Partial-rep training has really benefited me over the last 8 months.
I think the idea gets a bad rap because so many guys use it the wrong way: they eliminate the hardest part of the movement out of laziness, or so that they can handle more weight.
If, however, you limit the ROM in a way that confines the movement to the hardest part of the rep, then you are increasing and improving the target muscle’s time under tension.
With most movements, the resistance has at least one “vanishing point.”
By that, I mean a point at which tension leaves the target muscle due to the stress being transferred to joints and ancillary muscles - as is the case when locking out on bench presses.
If your goal is to build cosmetic muscle, you should consider at least trying this principle for several months.
You may be pleasantly surprised at the results.
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Most are suited for about a little wider that shoulder width. Of course adjustments for body type may play into this. Some have a problem with having too wide a grip, which can put unneeded pressure on the shoulder girdle/joints. I've seen collar to collar grips (which I have tried), that may be asking for trouble. A narrower grip would involve the anterior delts & triceps more.
For BB'ing purposes locking out is not required. Nor is full ROM's. Pure BB'ing does not require athletic training, like full stretch/ROM, endurance or even strength. (Personal view....that's all: BB'ing shows/contest are more geared to the subliminal homo erotic impulses in some males to see other males nude or semi nude, in select poses of a passive-aggressive nature). Average guy's who just want to get bigger and stronger, seem to have a more rounded approach to weight training.
Common accepted theory: That vanishing point (brief rest or reduced effort on a muscle during an exercise) that Montague suggest, is to be avoided, if speedy muscle development is the goal. You want a muscle to work at it's fullest capacity, with the max amount of weight used (for the desired reps), in the shortest period of time. This is the famous TUT (Time Under Tension) theme. And never to the point of failure, halting 1 or 2 reps before. The usually middle range of a positive/negative exercise can accomplish this goal.
True partial training is a bit different and is applied best in a PR/Power Cage, 'A' frame, supports, heavy boxes, etc. An even a Smith, for short range movements. A contracting muscle has three phased of effort, start, middle and end (full contraction). Each phase (1-2-3) is worked to it's max effort on an individual bases. And with different weight selection for each phase. Personal choice would be partial PR training. May not work for some, as the above TUT training may not produce any outstanding results. Some guy's get huge with light volume training (pump masters), some guy's lose size. Which only proves the point nothing can work for everyone. Have to find your very own "perfect" training system.
Other than heavy partial training, I find programs like 10X10's and 8X8's work well for me when getting away from the heavier training for awhile. Good Luck.
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wow. Thank you both for great responses.
I'm going to alter my grip a little tonight, going a little bit closer and not locking out at the top.
Thanks guys experts
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Hand Positioning on barbell presses..
Often I see guys using a more narrow position (Cutler for instance ) and never going close to lockout. I'm not talking about close grips either for triceps.
Its almost about shoulder width.
Thought?
dumbbells are the way to go in most movements for rom. and handpositioning.
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wow. Thank you both for great responses.
I'm going to alter my grip a little tonight, going a little bit closer and not locking out at the top.
Thanks guys experts
X2
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Currently I'm doing close grip (6" apart) partial lockouts in a Power Rack. Bar only travels 4 to 5" to the top lockout position. Exceptional exercise for the triceps and the supporting joints, when wanting to improve to heavier benches. Can really break a sticking point.
Than a middle grip, the bar about 3 to 4 " off the chest for regular benches. The last phase of the bench is regular presses, the grip wider than middle position. I let the bar brush the chest and than back all the way up. Looking for speed of performance in this one. Good Luck.
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JPM whats your current routine like? I see you're very knowledgable in strength training, what's your current job?
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Current plan, Will be ,in 3 weeks, changing up to another protocol.
Workout day #1
Hack BB Squats 3X6-9
Hi-Pulls 2X6-9
UP-Right Rows 2X6-9
Chins (medium underhand grip) 2X6-9 weighted
Chins (wide..behind neck) 2X6-9 weighted
Workout day #2
Step-up DB in hand 3X10
Front press (BB) just before top lockout 2X6-9
Front press (BB) to around eye level 2X6-9
Press Behind Neck Just before top lockout 2X6-9
Don't train arms, calves or calf's. Really no need to.
The following all applies to me, do what ever you wish when training.
Three day rest between any workout, which is based on a 8 day workout week. Sometimes it will be a 9 day workout week. Why 6 to 9 reps?..because it suits me very well. My general rule, if doing two or more exercises for one body area, than only two sets each exercise. Another general rule is never going to failure on any exercise or set. Most Olympic & Pl'er understand this.
My job is connected with athletics and specif sport programs. The present football season is a very busy period for me. As is off season work, where I travel a bit. Good Luck
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Current plan, Will be ,in 3 weeks, changing up to another protocol.
Workout day #1
Hack BB Squats 3X6-9
Hi-Pulls 2X6-9
UP-Right Rows 2X6-9
Chins (medium underhand grip) 2X6-9 weighted
Chins (wide..behind neck) 2X6-9 weighted
Workout day #2
Step-up DB in hand 3X10
Front press (BB) just before top lockout 2X6-9
Front press (BB) to around eye level 2X6-9
Press Behind Neck Just before top lockout 2X6-9
Don't train arms, calves or calf's. Really no need to.
The following all applies to me, do what ever you wish when training.
Three day rest between any workout, which is based on a 8 day workout week. Sometimes it will be a 9 day workout week. Why 6 to 9 reps?..because it suits me very well. My general rule, if doing two or more exercises for one body area, than only two sets each exercise. Another general rule is never going to failure on any exercise or set. Most Olympic & Pl'er understand this.
My job is connected with athletics and specif sport programs. The present football season is a very busy period for me. As is off season work, where I travel a bit. Good Luck
Looks very basic and to the point. I take it you are seeing progessive strength gains training this way. Why do you advocate never going to failure? Is it because its too draining on the CNS and can require too much compensation for the stress of exercise and hamper recovery time?
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Dom: You answered your own question about not going to failure. And in quite a logical way, I might add. Too bad most BB'ers don't quite see the disadvantage of going to failure. That's their business, so if some BB'ers prefer training that way, than so be it. .
Keep punishing the CNS, workout after workout, will only limit or even halt some gains they might be making, with regard to mass & strength (hitting a sticking point, which can last for months, comes to mind). If you have a serious cut on you arm you don't keep ripping at it every day. You allow the natural process of letting the wound heal it's self. Same might be applied to working out, where too much of overwhelming demands are put upon the natural recovery system. Of course "chemical booster" are fairly common in use now, which can be a fools paradise over time where gains are concern.
Progress is steady, or else what's the point of training at all., in reps or weight. Though I don't handle the weigh I played with when younger. Approaching 40 has it's drawback on enthusiasm so my workouts are shorter and to the point. All during training years I kept the same motto, "K.I.S.S.". Good Luck.
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a lot of people use a closer grip because its easier on joints tendons,