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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on August 30, 2011, 09:04:49 AM
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It's hard to tell if the idea that Ron Paul cannot win in 2012 is more ignorant, in its complete lack of historical sophistication, or more arrogant, in its claim to certainty amid all the complexity of 300 million lives and the myriad issues that affect them.
Sometimes, perhaps once in a few generations, a nation can undergo what a mathematician or physicist would call a "phase change." The classic example of such a thing is a pile of sand. Every grain you add makes the pile slightly steeper and slightly higher without moving any of the other grains inside the pile, until eventually one grain is added that causes an avalanche of sand down the sides of the pile, moving thousand of grains and changing the shape of the pile.
Such behavior can be exhibited by all complex systems, and a nation -- it should be obvious -- is much more complex than a pile of sand.
The important point for those who would presume to make such grand predictions as "Dr. Paul cannot win" is that no examination of the pile of sand before the point of avalanche would tell you that, or when, the avalanche will eventually happen.
But happen it does; indeed, happen it must.
(Rest of article)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/ron-paul-can-win_b_939993.html
And there are numerous examples of abrupt and dramatic phase change in the politics of great nations.
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Current polling for Republican candidates (per RCP):
Perry 23%
Romney 18%
Palin 10.5%
Bachmann 9.8%
Paul 8.7%
Giuliani 8.3%
Gingrich 5.7%
Cain 4.7%
Santorum 1.8%
Huntsman 1.5%
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html
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He gets my vote
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It's hard to tell if the idea that Ron Paul cannot win in 2012 is more ignorant, in its complete lack of historical sophistication, or more arrogant, in its claim to certainty amid all the complexity of 300 million lives and the myriad issues that affect them.
Sometimes, perhaps once in a few generations, a nation can undergo what a mathematician or physicist would call a "phase change." The classic example of such a thing is a pile of sand. Every grain you add makes the pile slightly steeper and slightly higher without moving any of the other grains inside the pile, until eventually one grain is added that causes an avalanche of sand down the sides of the pile, moving thousand of grains and changing the shape of the pile.
Such behavior can be exhibited by all complex systems, and a nation -- it should be obvious -- is much more complex than a pile of sand.
The important point for those who would presume to make such grand predictions as "Dr. Paul cannot win" is that no examination of the pile of sand before the point of avalanche would tell you that, or when, the avalanche will eventually happen.
But happen it does; indeed, happen it must.
(Rest of article)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/ron-paul-can-win_b_939993.html
And there are numerous examples of abrupt and dramatic phase change in the politics of great nations.
Good post!
"The U.K., the country of my birth, provides a compelling and closely relevant example. As every schoolboy knows, Churchill led Britain to victory in the Second World War. Indeed, he did as much as any man on Earth ever has to save civilization as we know it.
Three months after the entire nation poured into the streets to cheer this great leader (the man a few years ago voted by Britons the greatest Briton of all time), Churchill went to the country in a general election to retain his position as prime minister. There was simply no way he could lose. The best slogan the Labour party, his opposition, could come up with was, "Cheer Churchill. Vote Labour."
And amazingly, that is exactly what the nation did. Churchill was defeated. No one anywhere -- including the people of Britain who voted in the election -- had even thought about the possibility. No newspaper had considered it. After all, the election was a foregone conclusion in Churchill's favor. And yet an unseen, perhaps unconscious, will of the people caused a cultural and political phase-change in the British nation that they neither knew they wanted nor knew they had the power to cause. "
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Current polling for Republican candidates (per RCP):
Perry 23%
Romney 18%
Palin 10.5%
Bachmann 9.8%
Paul 8.7%
At this point in 2007, with the exact same amount of time before the election, it was RUDY GUILIANI and FRED THOMPSON in 1 and 2.
They didn't make it very far in the primaries at all. huck, Romney, and of course McCain weren't in the top 2 at this point.
Plus your poll throws in "Palin". Is she running?
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Ever ask yourself why outlets like the Huffington Post like Paul......because Paul bashes Republicans as much if not more then they do.
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Ever ask yourself why outlets like the Huffington Post like Paul......because Paul bashes Republicans as much if not more then they do.
This is exactly why RP is going nowhere fast. Its a moronic and stupid campaign strategy in a primary.
I really dont see what RP's game plan is by doing this. Do you ever hear him say a word about the treasonous left and obama? And he thinks he is going to win a primary like this? Utterly stupid.
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Ever ask yourself why outlets like the Huffington Post like Paul......because Paul bashes Republicans as much if not more then they do.
Correct. In 2008 he wouldn't even commit to endorsing the Republican nominee. He's a good man, but not loyal to the party. That really hurts him with the rank and file.
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RP can't win because Fox doesn't want him to be the nominee and they control what their viewers believe to be "facts"
RP is 100% consistent in his views, the problem is that some of those views are completely nutty and go against the corporatist/military agenda and the Fox (er, I mean the Republican party) can't allow that
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RP can't win because Fox doesn't want him to be the nominee and they control what their viewers believe to be "facts"
RP is 100% consistent in his views, the problem is that some of those views are completely nutty and go against the corporatist/military agenda and the Fox (er, I mean the Republican party) can't allow that
LMAO!
And you support obama who is the uber corporatist, militarist, and wall street hack!
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Correct. In 2008 he wouldn't even commit to endorsing the Republican nominee. He's a good man, but not loyal to the party. That really hurts him with the rank and file.
RP can't win because Fox doesn't want him to be the nominee and they control what their viewers believe to be "facts"
RP is 100% consistent in his views, the problem is that some of those views are completely nutty and go against the corporatist/military agenda and the Fox (er, I mean the Republican party) can't allow that
Ah, see how Ron Paul brings people together? ;)
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Also, I'd like to hear the theory on how Ron Paul can win the nomination if he's unable to win his home state.
Here is what happened during the 2008 primary:
McCain: 697,767 votes
Huck: 518,002 votes
Paul: 66,360
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=TX
Safe to assume he will not beat Perry in Texas.
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Ah, see how Ron Paul brings people together? ;)
lol :)
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LMAO!
And you support obama who is the uber corporatist, militarist, and wall street hack!
is this the same "uber corporatist" Obama who is also supposedly killing jobs, hates big business, shit - hates all business, etc..
Regarding RP, I like the his anti corporate stuff but I don't like a lot of his other stuff (most of his foreign policy, virtually all of his domestic policy, etc..)
like all candidates, it's a matter of picking the person who you personally think is the least flawed (i.e. shares the majority of your ideals)
I like some of what RP says but it's the other stuff (like his recent comments about FEMA) that over ride the parts that I like
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is this the same "uber corporatist" Obama who is also supposedly killing jobs, hates big business, shit - hates all business, etc..
Regarding RP, I like the his anti corporate stuff but I don't like a lot of his other stuff (most of his foreign policy, virtually all of his domestic policy, etc..)
like all candidates, it's a matter of picking the person who you personally think is the least flawed (i.e. shares the majority of your ideals)
I like some of what RP says but it's the other stuff (like his recent comments about FEMA) that over ride the parts that I like
Yes! Obama picks winners and losers in the economy to where he passes certain regs that kills jobs, and tries to prop up others that need billions in tax dollars.
At least RP is consistent in his views.
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Ah, see how Ron Paul brings people together? ;)
I've said many times that his own party treats him like shit and he should run as independt or for that matter a libertarian which is what he is
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Here are the results from California (2008)
McCain - 1,238,988, 42%
Romney - 1,013,471, 35%
Huckabee - 340,669, 12%
Paul - 125,365, 4%
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=CA
New York
McCain- 333,001, 52%
Romney - 178,043, 28%
Huckabee - 68,477, 11%
Paul - 40,113, 6%
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=NY
Florida
McCain - 701,761, 36%
Romney - 604,932, 31%
Giuliani - 286,089, 15%
Huckabee - 262,681, 14%
Paul - 62,887- 3%
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=FL
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I've said many times that his own party treats him like shit and he should run as independt or for that matter a libertarian which is what he is
no - you want him to run as an inde to dillute the GOP vote because Obama is going to get obliterated and his only hope is a 3rd party run by someone else.
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Yes! Obama picks winners and losers in the economy to where he passes certain regs that kills jobs, and tries to prop up others that need billions in tax dollars.
At least RP is consistent in his views.
interesting belief
too bad you can't give any examples or offer a shred of proof
just believing it and saying it is good enough
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RP can't win because Fox doesn't want him to be the nominee and they control what their viewers believe to be "facts"
RP is 100% consistent in his views, the problem is that some of those views are completely nutty and go against the corporatist/military agenda and the Fox (er, I mean the Republican party) can't allow that
Left wing media ignore him as well
Both the left and right does thats why you should vote for him
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no - you want him to run as an inde to dillute the GOP vote because Obama is going to get obliterated and his only hope is a 3rd party run by someone else.
has nothing to do with that
His party gives him no respect and his beliefs don't match the Republican platform
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Correct. In 2008 he wouldn't even commit to endorsing the Republican nominee. He's a good man, but not loyal to the party. That really hurts him with the rank and file.
LOL! You have a selective memory.
Do you forget Rudy and Romney shouting "you're a bigger liberal than I am!" for 3 months?
LMAO... All mccain had to do was stay quiet and let voters realize these 2 were too immature for the job.
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interesting belief
too bad you can't give any examples or offer a shred of proof
just believing it and saying it is good enough
LMAO! ! ! !
Are you fucking kidding! ! ! !
He is attacking coal and oil via the EPA, attacking boeing via the NLRB, attacking Gibson via DOJ, attacking small famrs via the USDA, all while he is funneling BILLIONS to green energy scams, GM, Chrysler, GS, BOA, etc.
dude - you are so fucking blind its not even funny.
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LMAO! ! ! !
Are you fucking kidding! ! ! !
He is attacking coal and oil via the EPA, attacking boeing via the NLRB, attacking Gibson via DOJ, attacking small famrs via the USDA, all while he is funneling BILLIONS to green energy scams, GM, Chrysler, GS, BOA, etc.
dude - you are so fucking blind its not even funny.
attacking?
I guess Obama personally sets the "attack agenda" for every agency
I guess that's part of his plan to collapse the nation
right?
Isn't that the CT?
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attacking?
I guess Obama personally sets the "attack agenda" for every agency
I guess that's part of his plan to collapse the nation
right?
Isn't that the CT?
Yes! You dont get it yet?
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Yes! You dont get it yet?
of course I get it
you've explained it many times
Obama wants revenge on our country for choosing him to be our leader so he is trying to collapse the nation
whats not to get?
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of course I get it
you've explained it many times
Obama wants revenge on our country for choosing him to be our leader so he is trying to collapse the nation
whats not to get?
Glad you are finally waking up.
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Glad you are finally waking up.
didn't say I agreed
just said I'm aware of your beliefs
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didn't say I agreed
just said I'm aware of your beliefs
Hey Straw - can you tell me when Obama's policies are actually supposed to start working?
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Hey Straw - can you tell me when Obama's policies are actually supposed to start working?
ok - I'll pretend you're sane and serious
as you know, the majority of the health care reforms have not even gone into effect (you do know that right or is that one of those facts you choose to ignore)
the auto manufacturers are recovering and the banks (for the most part) are doing ok (except for BofA which has unique problems of their own making)
The RE market sucks which I think is our biggest problem (as I've said many times before) but there seems to be no will on either side to really address the problems and I blame both parties for this
employment is lagging but the hemorrage of job losses which started during the Bush administration have stopped and many Repubs has credited the stimulus with saving or creating jobs
we still need major infrastructure work but the Repubs seem to want to wait for Jesus to come back and do that work (he was a supposedly a carpenter after all)
he's winding down Iraq (sort of) and killed bin laden too
I know you'll ignore all of that so there is no point in going any further
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333 you guys shouldnt be surprised by this. He has endorsed Cynthia McKinney and I believe Ralph Nader in other recent elections. This is not the action of a man that wins Republican Primaries. He is a flake and anyone who supports him is almost as misguided as those who suppported Obama.
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333 you guys shouldnt be surprised by this. He has endorsed Cynthia McKinney and I believe Ralph Nader in other recent elections. This is not the action of a man that wins Republican Primaries. He is a flake and anyone who supports him is almost as misguided as those who suppported Obama.
I just dont understand his strategy and why he runs when he refuses to actually try to court voters needed in the primary to get over the finish line.
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Cynthia McKinney is a douchebag of the highest order...
but she was right about a few things. namely, her and howard dean voicing their disgust at bush having forewarning of 911 and not acting.
Even after they were demonized by both the left and right wing press, it was discovered years later they were.... drum roll please.... correct. ;)
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333 you guys shouldnt be surprised by this. He has endorsed Cynthia McKinney and I believe Ralph Nader in other recent elections. This is not the action of a man that wins Republican Primaries. He is a flake and anyone who supports him is almost as misguided as those who suppported Obama.
What's wrong with Ron Paul endorsing Ralph Nader?
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What's wrong with Ron Paul endorsing Ralph Nader?
It does not win him the GOP primary and keeps him at perpetual loser status electorally.
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Ever ask yourself why outlets like the Huffington Post like Paul......because Paul bashes Republicans as much if not more then they do.
And rightfully so
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Yeah......Ron Paul is what Libs want conservatives to be. The Libs have destroyed America, gutted our values, wasted money, destroyed our work ethic, promoted racism with affirmative action, used race baiting to shake down companies, harbored our enemies..see the above mentioned cynthia Mckinney and the black congressional caucus..the list is endlss. Yet people here voted for Obama, people who say they have voted Republican in the past. Ron Paul is a joke.