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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on October 12, 2011, 12:06:02 PM
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http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/10/12/cains-9-9-9-plan-would-massively-redistribute-wealth-upward/?source=facebook
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b b b b b b but...........
ah, shit/.
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http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/10/12/cains-9-9-9-plan-would-massively-redistribute-wealth-upward/?source=facebook
that's one reason why the super rich are always pushing a flat tax
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Well, if a liberal blogger said it - it must be true. ::)
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ah shit i got banned from DU today. registered 3 hours. they didn't enjoy my provacative questioning technique. :(
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Well, if a liberal blogger said it - it must be true. ::)
Are you saying it a lie?
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Well, if a liberal blogger said it - it must be true. ::)
ad hominem
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ah shit i got banned from DU today. registered 3 hours. they didn't enjoy my provacative questioning technique. :(
link?
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would anybody like to take a chance and explain this bloggers line of thinking?
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9 percent sales tax on everything? That is on top of state sales tax? I can see how this national sales tax might quickly add up to the poor and middle class paying way more than they did before. This on top of 9% flat tax.
read this:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/
Not an expert on this, but once models start popping up on this, it looks kinda like it has the potential to bury him as a viable candidate.
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It is definitely going to hurt the poor more than they are now. They will have to pay that extra 9% for a pack of cigarettes and a big mac. The already don't pay any income tax being in the bottom half so all this does is add a 9% tax on the little guy.
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9 percent sales tax on everything? That is on top of state sales tax? I can see how this national sales tax might quickly add up to the poor and middle class paying way more than they did before. This on top of 9% flat tax.
read this:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/
Not an expert on this, but once models start popping up on this, it looks kinda like it has the potential to bury him as a viable candidate.
Again - not that I favor his plan - but its getting wildly distorted. He is also doing away with FICa taxes, which currently are 15%
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Again - not that I favor his plan - but its getting wildly distorted. He is also doing away with FICa taxes, which currently are 15%
if you read that article I posted the link to, it's not getting distorted, it's just that Cain has not given many of the details yet which they admit. So it's an attempt to evaluate what's been given so far. Tony asked if someone could give it a shot explaining. I'm not an expert on this shit, but with what's given so far, I can see where it might work out to the poor and middle class paying more and the top paying less than they are now.
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another thing, I bet corporations are not going to like the idea of a 9% national sales tax on everything on top of state sales tax. They'll see sales drop across the board pretty dang fast imo...
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If we want to keep the current level of govt - everyone is going to have to pay more.
We have a 1.5 trillion deficit every year - guess how you close that?
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If we want to keep the current level of govt - everyone is going to have to pay more.
We have a 1.5 trillion deficit every year - guess how you close that?
I'm not agruing against Cain's plan quite yet. Just trying to get a picture of what it would do based on what's been released so far...
Also, we should not keep the current level of government. That shit needs chopped in half or less.
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I'm not agruing against Cain's plan quite yet. Just trying to get a picture of what it would do based on what's been released so far...
Also, we should not keep the current level of government. That shit needs chopped in half or less.
I dont like the idea of a sales tax AND income tax.
Personally - I favor a national sales tax and thats it.
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another thing, I bet corporations are not going to like the idea of a 9% national sales tax on everything on top of state sales tax. They'll see sales drop across the board pretty dang fast imo...
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS is what I keep saying. You tax the poor/middle more, whether it's in the form of higher income taxes, or big sales taxes -
THey will SPEND LESS.
Theyr'e already spending everything they get. Watch walmart sales drop 15 or 25%, and you'll suddenly see what a recession feels like. Don't worry tho, I'm sure the wealthy will spend that $ at walmart...
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I dont like the idea of a sales tax AND income tax.
Personally - I favor a national sales tax and thats it.
That might work better than Cain's idea. Cut the stupid out of government and JUST have a national sales tax. Cain's idea on the front looks like it could put extra on an already hurting population.
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WTF?
Now the whork25 gimmick has a whork gimmick in addition to all his other gimmicks.
haha
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ad hominem
Uh-no retard, it's not. Dayen refers to himself as a liberal and he is a blogger.
You are and continue to be a dumbfuck. << now that's ad-hom retard.
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Romney's got 999 problems, but Cain ain't one.
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" I could be walking through the airport going through security and a TSA agent will say, "Hello Mr. Cain, 9-9-9""
lol Well in that case.....
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9 percent sales tax on everything? That is on top of state sales tax? I can see how this national sales tax might quickly add up to the poor and middle class paying way more than they did before. This on top of 9% flat tax.
read this:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/
Not an expert on this, but once models start popping up on this, it looks kinda like it has the potential to bury him as a viable candidate.
agreed
It is definitely going to hurt the poor more than they are now. They will have to pay that extra 9% for a pack of cigarettes and a big mac. The already don't pay any income tax being in the bottom half so all this does is add a 9% tax on the little guy.
agreed
maybe you guys havent been paying attention...that is part of what is going to have to happen to get us out of debt. Not this plan but actually having the 50% that dont pay shit in income tax to pay some more in the form of taxes.
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agreedagreed
maybe you guys havent been paying attention...that is part of what is going to have to happen to get us out of debt. Not this plan but actually having the 50% that dont pay shit in income tax to pay some more in the form of taxes.
actually no... cut the stupid and uncontitutional out of government and that's not what has to happen. Only one person running will go down that road for sure.... Ron Paul...........
and yes, I have been paying attention lol...
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Gee, will it really "redistribute" wealth upward? No, it won't redistribute wealth upward. What it will do, however, is make the 47% of people who don't pay shit in this country put some skin in the game. I'm cool with that. They use the same roads, infrastructure, etc as the rest of us who pay out so why should they be treated differently? Or did I miss the part in the constitution that says everyone isn't equal?
9-9-9 is a nonstarter but it's an idea. That's what matters.
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Uh-no retard, it's not. Dayen refers to himself as a liberal and he is a blogger.
You are and continue to be a dumbfuck. << now that's ad-hom retard.
You was trying to discredit the blogger solely for being a liberal, without attacking his argument
Take a wild guess at what that is called.
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You was trying to discredit the blogger solely for being a liberal, without attacking his argument
Take a wild guess at what that is called.
I didn't try to discredit anybody, I merely dismissed it for what it was - opinion.
Sorry you lack basic reading comprehension.
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Its a blog magoo....opinion is sorta implied.
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Its a blog magoo....opinion is sorta implied.
It's interesting how liberals think the word "liberal" is discrediting, lol.
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It's interesting how liberals think the word "liberal" is discrediting, lol.
They're "progressives" now....even though they embody ideals that were popular decades ago.
"Regressive" seems to fit better.
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I try to discredit anybody, I merely dismissed it for what it was - opinion.
Sorry you lack basic reading comprehension.
I need a better quality dumbass to argue with
you said: "Well, if a liberal blogger said it - it must be true. ::)"
You meant: It (It= the argument of the blogger) is not true because a liberal blogger said it
The truth/falsity of the argument does not depend on whether the person is a liberal or a blogger. That is attack to the person who is making said argument, NOT the argument itself
When you attack the person who makes an argument to try to disprove the argument the person is making, instead of attacking the argument itself, that is called a.....
Get it yet?
Or are you going to try the dumbass approach by saying "i was merely pointing out the person is a liberal and that he blogs. In no way was I trying to disprove his argument by pointing this out" ::)
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Well I imagine skip feels that your fucked up ideology has failed and therefore anybody who still spouts those points is a grapefruit. But if I'm wrong skip will mention it.
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I need a better quality dumbass to argue with
you said: "Well, if a liberal blogger said it - it must be true. ::)"
You meant: It (It= the argument of the blogger) is not true because a liberal blogger said it
The truth/falsity of the argument does not depend on whether the person is a liberal or a blogger. That is attack to the person who is making said argument, NOT the argument itself
When you attack the person who makes an argument to try to disprove the argument the person is making, instead of attacking the argument itself, that is called a.....
Get it yet?
Or are you going to try the dumbass approach by saying "i was merely pointing out the person is a liberal and that he blogs. In no way was I trying to disprove his argument by pointing this out" ::)
Oh, brother. Now you're just gonna make up what other people meant as though you know them. ::)
That's the apex of dumbass arguments.
You just jumped to a conclusion because you have piss poor reading comprehension.
Deal with it dumbfuck.
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I love Magoo.... ::)
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Well I imagine skip feels that your fucked up ideology has failed and therefore anybody who still spouts those points is a grapefruit. But if I'm wrong skip will mention it.
You know, I had totally forgot, but this douchebag thinks he has ownership over the word "liberal" and was crying that 33 should stop using it.
Funniest thing - he actually pointed to a professor who argues that nobody owns the term, lololol.
Ahhh..the dumb. They're good for a laugh.
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You know, I had totally forgot, but this douchebag thinks he has ownership over the word "liberal" and was crying that 33 should stop using it.
Funniest thing - he actually pointed to a professor who argues that nobody owns the term, lololol.
Ahhh..the dumb. They're good for a laugh.
what the hell are you talking about? ???
I never said anything about "owning" the term Liberal. 3333 calls several democrats "liberal socialists". These are two competing political theories that contradict one another. That would be me like calling you a christian buddhist or a jewish muslim. Although these terms cannot be defined to a tee, they can be defined enough to see that it would be almost impossible for someone to truly be both because they are not both compatible.
I don't own the term "liberal", that's silly to claim that someone "owns" a word. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what liberalism, socialism, and conservatism say, and a lot of people get parts of them mixed up.
I'm for education of politics, not for "owning" political terms. That's nonsense.
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actually no... cut the stupid and uncontitutional out of government and that's not what has to happen. Only one person running will go down that road for sure.... Ron Paul...........
and yes, I have been paying attention lol...
actually yes bro, everybody is going to have to pay more taxes to get us out of the debt we are in. Reducing spending is part of the solution as well but everyone will have to pick up the slack as well.
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You know, I had totally forgot, but this douchebag thinks he has ownership over the word "liberal" and was crying that 33 should stop using it.
Funniest thing - he actually pointed to a professor who argues that nobody owns the term, lololol.
Ahhh..the dumb. They're good for a laugh.
He's in college, br0. He knows EVERYTHING. I was like that a few years ago. Only difference is that it turned out that I did indeed know everything. :D
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actually yes bro, everybody is going to have to pay more taxes to get us out of the debt we are in. Reducing spending is part of the solution as well but everyone will have to pick up the slack as well.
actually no bro... ::) It doesn't have to be done overnight. Cut the crap from government and head the budget back in the right direction and you immediately will see economic rewards from where we are standing NOW... I don't have a freaking problem with that!!!! Not sure why you would...
I sure in the hell hope you're not looking at Cain's plan as a magic wand because what has been released so far seems far from it.
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another thing, I bet corporations are not going to like the idea of a 9% national sales tax on everything on top of state sales tax. They'll see sales drop across the board pretty dang fast imo...
And they won't bust in their pants at the prospect of a 9% corporate tax? It would be one of the lowest in the world. We'd have corporations pouring in here like they did when Ireland dropped their rates and got themselves the Celtic Tiger.
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And they won't bust in their pants at the prospect of a 9% corporate tax? It would be one of the lowest in the world. We'd have corporations pouring in here like they did when Ireland dropped their rates and got themselves the Celtic Tiger.
kinda negated a bit if a majority(poor/middle class) start buying way less under what could easily amount to a huge increase in taxes for them under Cain's plan.
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I agree w taxing consumption v production. We need more producers and savers v consumers and borrowers
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kinda negated a bit if a majority(poor/middle class) start buying way less under what could easily amount to a huge increase in taxes for them under Cain's plan.
They don't consume beyond the necessities anyway.
Haha, who am I kidding, this is the land where people on welfare have LCD TVs and iPhones. My bad. Good point.
I can't find the link right now but Bloomberg did a calculation of the revenues a few weeks ago. Their rough estimate had revenues with $200 billion of last year.
The biggest problem with the sales tax has nothing to do with how much people would buy or what not. It's the assholes in DC that would turn that 9% into 20% in the blink of an eye.
Flat tax, no exemptions.
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They don't consume beyond the necessities anyway.
Haha, who am I kidding, this is the land where people on welfare have LCD TVs and iPhones. My bad. Good point.
we're not just talking about the poor. As stated so far, this would have an effect on the middle class. You will see less spending in both and both have an impact.
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we're not just talking about the poor. As stated so far, this would have an effect on the middle class. You will see less spending in both and both have an impact.
How much consuming does the poor and lower middle class do outside of the necessities?
Now I'm not pointing my finger at you but I don't know why the left is pissing about this sales tax. These are the same assholes that would love to shove a VAT down our throats.
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we're not just talking about the poor. As stated so far, this would have an effect on the middle class. You will see less spending in both and both have an impact.
Yes, but people will save more and have more freedom over there money. The income tax punishes prodctive people and rewards debt.
We need to reward savers and thrift, not borrowing and debt. I favor a national sales tax and no income tax at all.
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VAT is not the same as a sales tax. VAT is a disaster.
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VAT is not the same as a sales tax. VAT is a disaster.
I know it's not. I'm just pointing out that the Dems, who are pissing and moaning about this, would love nothing more than to drop a VAT on everyone. They're hypocrites through and through.
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He's in college, br0. He knows EVERYTHING. I was like that a few years ago. Only difference is that turned out that I did indeed know everything. :D
:D
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Yes, but people will save more and have more freedom over there money. The income tax punishes prodctive people and rewards debt.
We need to reward savers and thrift, not borrowing and debt. I favor a national sales tax and no income tax at all.
save more, spend less without the save more lol... back to my original point about big business not liking that much. duh... You slam that plan home in an already hard economy... yea...
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I know it's not. I'm just pointing out that the Dems, who are pissing and moaning about this, would love nothing more than to drop a VAT on everyone. They're hypocrites through and through.
true - what I like about the sales tax vs the income tax is the freedom of it. You basically choose how much you want to pay. If you want to fuck the govt, spend less.
W the income tax - it's used more as a means to control behavior of people rather than revenue generation.
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save more, spend less without the save more lol... back to my original point about big business not liking that much. duh... You slam that plan home in an already hard economy... yea...
Everyone needs to cut back. It's not sustainable. We need savers in order to have a more sound banking system. If more people saved and received interest on savings, banks could loan based on capital reserves vs the ponzi scam we have now w the federal reserve creating bullshit money out of nothing
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Another thing that makes me laugh is that the media and the left keeps going on and on about how this will increase our deficit. Have any of these douche bags ever heard of, oh I don't know, CUTTING SPENDING?
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Another thing that makes me laugh is that the media and the left keeps going on and on about how this will increase our deficit. Have any of these douche bags ever heard of, oh I don't know, CUTTING SPENDING?
The problem also is that the income tax punishes work. Sales tax is true privacy for individuals. The govt does not need to know your business.
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He's in college, br0. He knows EVERYTHING. I was like that a few years ago. Only difference is that it turned out that I did indeed know everything. :D
I don't know everything. I know very very very little. I'm a dumbass. I've said this before and you've quoted me calling myself a dumbass before. How do you go from that to now claiming that I think I know "everything"
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Cain must be spendIng a lot of time in SimCit2000.. His 9-9-9 plan matches perfectly the default tax layout in the game.
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Cain must be spendIng a lot of time in SimCit2000.. His 9-9-9 plan matches perfectly the default tax layout in the game.
I love the idea of a national sales tax. No need to file an income tax return, no privacy invasion, no crimes to individuals for false returns, etc.
But no way both income tax and sales tax together. He'll no. It might work from a math point of view, but too many red flags.
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999 is a fun sales pitch.
but i've been saying for a while, it'll never pass in congress. maybe we end up with 6-11.5-18 or something weird like that.
but 9 9 9 is turning out to be not good for middle class swing voters. And the fact he's so straight and honest about things actually hurts him here.
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999 is a fun sales pitch.
but i've been saying for a while, it'll never pass in congress. maybe we end up with 6-11.5-18 or something weird like that.
but 9 9 9 is turning out to be not good for middle class swing voters. And the fact he's so straight and honest about things actually hurts him here.
That's because the tax code is rigged so that 50 percent pay nothing! That's bullshit.
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That's because the tax code is rigged so that 50 percent pay nothing! That's bullshit.
they pay, all right. THey drop all their dough at Walmart for cheap plastic shit, and the WMT stock is all owned by the rich fckers who aren't paying taxes either.
system collapses with a flat tax. that's why it isn't used anywhere really, is it? the POOR already spend 100% of their income. You don't HAVE to tax their shitty income...
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999 is a fun sales pitch.
but i've been saying for a while, it'll never pass in congress. maybe we end up with 6-11.5-18 or something weird like that.
but 9 9 9 is turning out to be not good for middle class swing voters. And the fact he's so straight and honest about things actually hurts him here.
If Obama even said 999, you know there would be a million pages on the net overnight flipping that number upsidedown lol...
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If Obama even said 999, you know there would be a million pages on the net overnight flipping that number upsidedown lol...
god, didn't bachmann look like a dumb shit on that one-liner?
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god, didn't bachmann look like a dumb shit on that one-liner?
Yeah WTF. She really melted down after the straw poll.
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Cain Economic Advisor: 9-9-9 Plan to Add $2 Trillion to GDP
CNBC ^ | 10.13.11 | Michelle Fox
Posted on October 13, 2011 9:38:03 PM EDT by casablanca
Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan will add $2 trillion to U.S. GDP, as well as create 6 million jobs, his economic advisor Rich Lowrie told Larry Kudlow Thursday.
Lowrie also said under the plan, business investments will increase by one-third and wages will go up by 10 percent.
“And if you fold all that growth together,” he said, “federal revenues go up by 15 percent.”
Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would scrap the current tax code and replace it with a 9 percent tax on personal income and corporations, as well as a new 9 percent sales tax.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...
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Godfather of Supply-Side Economics Supports Cain's '9-9-9' Plan
Human Events ^ | 10/12/11 | Tony Lee
Posted on October 12, 2011 9:50:02 PM EDT by justsaynomore
As businessman Herman Cain surges atop state and national polls and becomes a top-tier presidential contender, his signature "9-9-9" plan, which calls for a nine percent tax on income, a nine percent national sales tax, and a nine percent corporate income tax, has come under scrutiny from the right and the left.
Famed supply-side economist Art Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS that Cain's "9-9-9" plan was a pro-growth plan that would create the proper conditions for America's economy to grow and thrive again.
"Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would be a vast improvement over the current tax system and a boon to the U.S. economy," Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS in a statement. "The goal of supply-side tax reform is always a broadening of the tax base and lowering of marginal tax rates."
Added Laffer: "Mr. Cain’s plan is simple, transparent, neutral with respect to capital and labor, and savings and consumption, and also greatly decreases the hidden costs of tax compliance. There is no doubt that economic growth would surge upon implementation of 9-9-9."
Laffer also said that "such a system provides the least avenues to avoid paying taxes, yet also maintains the strongest incentives for work effort, production, and investment."
At the GOP presidential debate in New Hampshire on Tuesday, Cain's plan received criticism from many of the candidates on stage.
Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said that Americans needed a plan that was "doable-doable-doable" when asked his opinion on Cain's "9-9-9" plan.
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R.-Minn.) said that the "9-9-9" plan was not "a jobs plan," but was rather "a tax plan." Bachmann also complained of Congress getting another revenue stream from the plan and said, "you turn the 9-9-9 plan upside down, and the devil's in the details."
Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum said that the "9-9-9" plan was not a passable solution.
Further, Cain has been criticized from the left as well, as charges that his "9-9-9" plan is regressive have been made, charges that Cain has often refuted by citing that the payroll tax would be eliminated under his plan and used goods would not be levied sales taxes.
As Cain's profile increases and poll numbers rise, his opponents will attack him more fiercely over his "9-9-9" plan, but it looks like Cain has found an ally in Laffer, an economist who is more than respected by fiscal, pro-growth conservatives.
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Most of these guy are just tinkering. How about you get to keep everything you earned. 0% income tax, except for hotshots that always say they should be paying more, those people should be 100% taxed on everything for being total bullshitters
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National sales tax w no income tax is the true choice for freedom.
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National sales tax w no income tax is the true choice for freedom.
I would be open to this, especially when compared to other alternatives
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I would be open to this, especially when compared to other alternatives
Imagine no more income tax returns, no more withholding, no more net checks, no more bs. You get your pay and you decide what you want do with it!
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Imagine no more income tax returns, no more withholding, no more net checks, no more bs. You get your pay and you decide what you want do with it!
Imagine liberal politicians going into mourning, as a result. "You mean YOU get to spend your own money instead of us.....NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"
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they pay, all right. THey drop all their dough at Walmart for cheap plastic shit, and the WMT stock is all owned by the rich fckers who aren't paying taxes either.
system collapses with a flat tax. that's why it isn't used anywhere really, is it? the POOR already spend 100% of their income. You don't HAVE to tax their shitty income...
Stupid and wrong.
But you knew that.
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I know very very very little. I'm a dumbass.
QFT
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White republican guilt is making this guy popular.
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White republican guilt is making this guy popular.
lol
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White republican guilt is making this guy popular.
When you have to resort to stealing his material - yeah, he pretty much owns your mind.
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When you have to resort to stealing his material - yeah, he pretty much owns your mind.
It's amazing how far-leftist retards like kcballer see everything through the lens of racism.
As James Taranto said earlier today, "These white Republicans are so racist that they're willing to elect a black man president just to keep black people down. The absurdity of that formulation underscores the left's desperation to keep the idea of racism alive."
What a pathetic group of people. The icing on the cake has to be Cain getting lectured on his "blackness" by white people. How dare he leave the plantation and his white masters. Doesn't he realize the white elites in the Dem party know what's best for those people?
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When you have to resort to stealing his material - yeah, he pretty much owns your mind.
Hahaha sure he does ::)
It points out the double standard that is 333. When a liberal votes a black guy it's guilt, when a conservative does it's because he is the best candidate. Such generalizations are rampant on this board and are absurd.
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It's amazing how far-leftist retards like kcballer see everything through the lens of racism.
As James Taranto said earlier today, "These white Republicans are so racist that they're willing to elect a black man president just to keep black people down. The absurdity of that formulation underscores the left's desperation to keep the idea of racism alive."
What a pathetic group of people. The icing on the cake has to be Cain getting lectured on his "blackness" by white people. How dare he leave the plantation and his white masters. Doesn't he realize the white elites in the Dem party know what's best for those people?
Ah yes and here is the master of generalizations himself. Please enlighten us with more sweeping accusations about certain groups of people.
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Hahaha sure he does ::)
It points out the double standard that is 333. When a liberal votes a black guy it's guilt, when a conservative does it's because he is the best candidate. Such generalizations are rampant on this board and are absurd.
I have made my feelings known many times. I like Cain's business background and his working his way up. I like that he is not a politician and has a varied history from ballistics expert, to food industry, etc.