Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dyslexic on October 14, 2011, 04:27:42 PM
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
Jussup was the fucking man, Arnold said that he was afraid to train with him on legs.
(http://classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/jusupwilkosz/jusupwilkosz13.jpg)
As far as Mike and Ray are concerned...I mean they were dying....why not smoke
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Good physique
(http://clay_b868.tripod.com/WilcoszJusup/JWilkosz0027.jpg)
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Mentzer def. meth-ed out of his brain...jaw chomping...can't get the words out fast enough, smoking like each puff is oxygen...and Ray was never regarded as the 'smart' one..iono whats up with him but hard drugs, day in and day out will take its toll.
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Who- lee- shit!!!
This vid should be shown to all 7th graders about the dangers of DRUGS.
FUCK.
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I viewed that video with a lot of interest because Ray stayed at my place for about a year in 87-88. I stayed at Ray's place for a couple of weeks in 1991. Jusup Wilkosz was the German bodybuilder who defeated Ray at the IFBB World championships in 1979 and denied Ray that title. Ray won the AAU Mr America in 1979. I guess Ray is relating this story about Jusup because he knew him. Ray was a serious guy and you can see it in the video. It was sad to hear him say he couldn't get any women. That wasn't the Ray I knew. He still carried himself with dignity but Mike looked high. Mike did use a word I never heard before so his mind wasn't gone. Mike was 49 and Ray was 47 but they both looked frail and much older. They both died not long after that video was taken. Those videos were supposed to make Mike a lot of money. Ray was on dialysis so his health was shot. When Mike died of some sort of heart failure it impacted on Ray because now he couldn't get a kidney transplant and regain his health. The shock was so great it ended up killing Ray. He died two days after Mike.
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that video should make you think long and hard before doing anything in a mentzer book or article lol
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All i have to say is people change....some for the better and some for the worse. But the great thing about life is that we're all entitled to our decisions at the end of the day.
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You have to understand that Mike and Ray were brothers who competed against each other. When Mike won Mr America that is what Ray badly wanted. He did just that. When Mike won Mr Universe that was a title Ray coveted. Jusup beat Ray in 1979 and Ray never did win that title. He probably took risks later in his quest to win another big title. He told me in 1991 that he got sick when he was approaching 300 pounds a year or two before. He said most of the guys at that weight were getting sick. He didn't tell me what illness they had but I guess it had something to do with the kidneys and perhaps heart disease. Ray once squatted with 925 pounds for two reps. The guy was like a superman. He used pain killers and eventually these impacted on his health. It is very said that they died before reaching 50. They were far from knuckleheads. Mike was a philosopher and apparently so was Jusup Wilcosz.
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That was very trippy.
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i couldve saved both their lives :(
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Extremely sad.
I met Mike for a few brief minutes in the mid-'90s at Gold's, Venice. Guy was furked, but pleasant.
Interesting what Mike says about what he heard about Dorian. And what Ray says about Jusup.
This "sport" is a boneyard of wrecked lives and health, both mental and physical.
P.S. I believe Ray had 925 on the squat bar, but I DO NOT believe, not for one second, that he legally squatted it even once, let alone for two reps. I've seen footage of the brothers' squatting and they bent their knees perhaps three or four inches in a cage with the rails WAY up. Everything they did was shortened and, quite frankly, ridiculous. They had good response to gas and hit it hard, period. Any type of training stimulis would have sufficed.
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I've watched the entire "series". It is, at times, sad. I had the chance to watch Mike, Ray and Viator train at Gold's. It was something else.
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
When muscle heroes fall they fall hard. :(
And, yes, Mike did G4P.
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When muscle heroes fall they fall hard. :(
And, yes, Mike did G4P.
Name us the pros who didn't list will be much shorter to read.
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I actually have the video on VHS. And yes, they died shortly after. The video shows this same side of them.
Markus Reinhardt claimed to be another *natty*... ha ha
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Name us the pros who didn't list will be much shorter to read.
Touché! :-\
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Touché! :-\
Go on, tell us a few guys that won't do g4p even if you double the price.
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Can't translate... can't picture him running around the gym naked and looney toonz either...
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I actually have the video on VHS. And yes, they died shortly after. The video shows this same side of them.
Markus Reinhardt claimed to be another *natty*... ha ha
Oh, christ. ::)
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Ray sure didn't tolerate gay men. He poked fun at them. He said lots of the guys would do that to the gay competitors at contests. Eg., Bobby Paris.
I would be totally shocked if I heard any stories about Ray doing Gay4pay. He would rather die than do that shit.
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Ray sure didn't tolerate gay men. He poked fun at them. He said lots of the guys would do that to the gay competitors at contests. Eg., Bobby Paris.
I would be totally shocked if I heard any stories about Ray doing Gay4pay. He would rather die than do that shit.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not the only one on getbig who knows that both Mike and Ray did G4P. ::)
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not the only one on getbig who knows that both Mike and Ray did G4P. ::)
Let me guess... Bay4Pay, or is it B4P? You had a paper route and worked hard all summer to save enough to have one of them burst your Hairy Cherry©™.
Fuck that noise.
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They also used the term "knuckle heads"
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
ROFL sorry but that was hillarious - fuckin tweakers lol..
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Jussup Wilkolz was a very strong mofo and an intense, bearded animal in the gym.
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Best bit is Mike and Ray in the car
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Best bit is Mike and Ray in the car
hahaha thats what I was thinking when Mike lit his alreading lit smoke lol ;D
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hahaha thats what I was thinking when Mike lit his alreading lit smoke lol ;D
HAHA, me too ;D
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Fucking JUNKIES. ::)
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its sad really. this is not what bbing is suppose to be about
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its sad really. this is not what bbing is suppose to be about
"And every fair from fair sometime declines"
--Shakespeare
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Wow how sad. I grew up seeing them in magazines. Mikes mannersisms remind me of people I used to talk to at 8 am in an after hours dance club 8)
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I remember reading an interview with Samir some years ago in which he stated that there were 6 plates (i think) on the bar and the Mentzers couldnt deadlift it. He apparently proceeded to do 3 reps with ease, in his words, so what is the likelihood in that?
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
OMG!
Like a patio of an asylum... :o
So sad...never gonna forget this!
Thanks for posting! :-\
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I remember reading an interview with Samir some years ago in which he stated that there were 6 plates (i think) on the bar and the Mentzers couldnt deadlift it. He apparently proceeded to do 3 reps with ease, in his words, so what is the likelihood in that?
6 plates a side or total? lol
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6 plates a side or total? lol
Awesome question... ::)
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Mike did use a word I never heard before so his mind wasn't gone.
What word?
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The Mentzers where some smart individuals unfortunately when their lives starting going down hill the narcotics increased. I trained with Mike in 2000 in Venice at Gold's afterwards we sat down and talked about his BB career as he smoked a cigarette. I'll never forget it I still following his core training principles with a bit of modification of my own.
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What word?
Mike mentioned Dorian doing weird stuff. Dorian was saying things he wouldn't ordinarily say, he was wild, and he was going out and fucking every woman he could find. Travelling the world...women want him. Ray said Dorian wasn't a very good looking chap. Mike replied that Dorian wasn't that bad. At least he wasn't a teratological person. That means monstrous. Teratology is the study of deformaties at birth.
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Hairy Cherry©™.
ROFL ;D
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Thanks, Vince. No way to prove this, if I'm even right, but Ayn Rand was a huge fan of Victor Hugo, who has used that word in a couple of his novels. Maybe that's where Mike got it from.
Wonder if Mike was always a smoker or if he took up the habit just to conform more to Ayn Rand's ideology.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not the only one on getbig who knows that both Mike and Ray did G4P. ::)
ALL GAYS THINK EVERYONE IS GAY!
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its sad really. this is not what bbing is suppose to be about
Really? This is sad, how about the current state of bodybuilding?
Also, they are near death and obviously medicated. Mentzer was sharp in his day, name anyone from this Century in BB that is even articulate? "Light Weight!"
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When muscle heroes fall they fall hard. :(
And, yes, Mike did G4P.
How do you know this specifically???
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Awesome question... ::)
Fuck off, Mr. 150mg prop/150mg winstrol. ::) ::) :D
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Why did he have to light it after it was already lit? Why are they both slurring their speech and acting so lethargic? Sad. Stuttering and shit. Damn.
Mike is chain-smoking and damn, Ray talks some heavy shit about Jussup Wilkolz. Remember him?
Very sad, regarding they were only in their late 40s. They look and act like 70, that's what heavy abuse does to you.
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Whoever follows those guys "principles" is plain retarded.
I mean, look at him, a fucking mess. ::)
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All i have to say is people change....some for the better and some for the worse. But the great thing about life is that we're all entitled to our decisions at the end of the day.
A very profound statement, Big Nav. Thanks for that. :)
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I remember reading an interview with Samir some years ago in which he stated that there were 6 plates (i think) on the bar and the Mentzers couldnt deadlift it. He apparently proceeded to do 3 reps with ease, in his words, so what is the likelihood in that?
The 600-pound deadlift scene, yeah, I remember reading about that, too, man. Six plates (585). Samir had just walked in and, without a warmup, pulled it, and quite easily.
It doesn't shock me that the Mentzer brothers couldn't hoist it, either. As I say, these guys were all drugs ... but came to the belief that their training methodologies were the answer. Total horseshit.
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thats not depressing
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not the only one on getbig who knows that both Mike and Ray did G4P. ::)
Please shut the fuck up. You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors. Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay. Fucking drama queen nancy! Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't. Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip. If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike. You going to say the same thing about Arnold? Probably not.
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they are what, 100 years old?
Give them a fucking break! They were in the top, enjoyed life to it's fullest and trained even harder after that... but after you reach 141 years of age you tend to NOT CARE about the self image so much and just do whatever you please and feels good at the moment and train on the side, right?
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they are what, 100 years old?
Give them a fucking break! They were in the top, enjoyed life to it's fullest and trained even harder after that... but after you reach 141 years of age you tend to NOT CARE about the self image so much and just do whatever you please and feels good at the moment and train on the side, right?
They were in their late 40s in the video bro. Pretty pathetic. When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it. Yes give the guys a break. But let's keep it real.
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They were in their late 40s in the video bro. Pretty pathetic. When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it. Yes give the guys a break. But let's keep it real.
I didn't know that... 40? they look 60 ???
I take back what i said
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Please shut the fuck up. You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors. Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay. Fucking drama queen nancy! Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't. Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip. If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike. You going to say the same thing about Arnold? Probably not.
yes he has ;D
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You have to understand that Mike and Ray were brothers who competed against each other. When Mike won Mr America that is what Ray badly wanted. He did just that. When Mike won Mr Universe that was a title Ray coveted. Jusup beat Ray in 1979 and Ray never did win that title. He probably took risks later in his quest to win another big title. He told me in 1991 that he got sick when he was approaching 300 pounds a year or two before. He said most of the guys at that weight were getting sick. He didn't tell me what illness they had but I guess it had something to do with the kidneys and perhaps heart disease. Ray once squatted with 925 pounds for two reps. The guy was like a superman. He used pain killers and eventually these impacted on his health. It is very said that they died before reaching 50. They were far from knuckleheads. Mike was a philosopher and apparently so was Jusup Wilcosz.[/b]
Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.
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Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.
x 10000, also, to Dr. Basile, someone who knows a word he doesn't know gets a clear bill of mental health... ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Please shut the fuck up. You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors. Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay. Fucking drama queen nancy! Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't. Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip. If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike. You going to say the same thing about Arnold? Probably not.
Everyone knows Arnold did everything to go to the top.
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The 600-pound deadlift scene, yeah, I remember reading about that, too, man. Six plates (585). Samir had just walked in and, without a warmup, pulled it, and quite easily.
It doesn't shock me that the Mentzer brothers couldn't hoist it, either. As I say, these guys were all drugs ... but came to the belief that their training methodologies were the answer. Total horseshit.
As I recall, Mike got a hard single, but Ray and Viator couldn't lift it (at least, according to Samir).
I asked Mike about that once and he laughed. He said Casey would bullshit about not using tons of Dianabol during the Colorado thing, and that he was prone to outright lying about his best lifts. Just the same, Mike said, all three of them were perfectly capable of pulling more than 585, especially Casey (again, according to Mike). What Samir didn't mention was all of the shit Mike and co. did before he approached them. I don't remember what all that was, but I do remember thinking, "Well, that explains that."
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Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.
Exactly. These days, it seems in order to be considered a philosopher, all you have to do is string together incoherent sentences. For an example, read any of Johnny Falcon's posts.
Mike idolize Ayn Rand and would use her influence as some way to swing people into his methods being superior. He'd say something like "If you study physiology, you will see weight training is very hard on the body but the body can adapt. Ayn Rand once said the stars were purple but the earth adapted to the color." And somehow this statement, in Mike's mind, made enough sense that he would use this as a compelling argument for his cause.
It's one thing to see this video and think they're just a couple of "Bundy's" reliving the glory days. But once you realize they're still in their 40's, you realize that's just a horror film...or a really good D.A.R.E commercial.
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Mike was a philosopher. Lots of professors of philosophy are not Spinozas and David Humes. I never embraced the writings of Ayn Rand. She wrote a lot of controversial but interesting books and essays. Her Virtue of Selfishness is nonsense. Why Mike followed that stuff I have no idea. Ray talked about Ayn Rand, too, but wasn't what I consider a philosopher. Mike put his writings into a cohesive larger theory about the world and universe. There was one true theory about any phenomenon including hypertrophy theory. Mike believed that if he had knowledge of the correct theory then he would reap the rewards of following it and also being the best bodybuilder. In 1980 his whole universe imploded when he placed 5th in the Olympia in Sydney. He was never the same and Ray told me how Mike lost it and did weird shit and his Dad told Ray to look after Mike. Ray said that Mike lost him customers at his gym in Torrance.....Muscle Mill.
I don't believe Ray did Gay4pay. No way. The guy was severely anti gay.
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When muscle heroes fall they fall hard. :(
Mike believed that if he had knowledge of the correct theory then he would reap the rewards of following it and also being the best bodybuilder. In 1980 his whole universe imploded when he placed 5th in the Olympia in Sydney.
:'(
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I don't believe Ray did Gay4pay. No way. The guy was severely anti gay. [/color]
That's the second time you've referred to Ray not doing G4P, yet avoided mentioning Mike in that same sense. ::)
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That's the second time you've referred to Ray not doing G4P, yet avoided mentioning Mike in that same sense. ::)
;D
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Why do people take offense to g4p, there's a lot of old queens around town that I like very much, every once in a while I will catch one of them staring at me like they are trying to burn a whole in me with their glasses, but this is shit you gotta get over, they are good people. I understand why they don't like women, I don't even really like women but I need their love and they get me off sexually. If that weren't the case I wouldn't ever even look at a woman.
One time at the local cafe a couple girls left empty plates on the table and began to leave, this old gay guy said really loudly "I'm not your mother, clean your table" and stood their and waited as they did so before he took a seat at the table. He had my respect form then on. He also offers me a spot at his table whenever the place is full, very nice man, sometimes I catch him looking at me strangely lol, but whatever. I respect the man.
g4p aint nothing to sneeze at, being beautiful gives you a certain amount of power, a certain amount of real estate in people's minds, to translate this power into money is to realize that power. Like when a stock goes up in a company you own, and you sell the stock, you just realized a gain. Realize your power motherfuckers, don't be ashamed
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Big fan of Mike. But let's get something straight. He was no philosopher. FACT. He was, however, a deep thinker. Big difference ! He parroted Rand. Through and through ! How do I know ? Because I've studied both Mentzer and Rand's work. He had NO orginal ideas regarding anything philisophical.
And another thing. Philosophy, more or less, blows. It's all mental masturbation, really. Pick up a book by Kant, Shopenhauer, Heidegger and try reading it. Blah, blah, blah, etc. Better yet, try attending a lecture ! Hahahahahahahahah ! Then the real fun starts !
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One doesn't need to be original to be a philosopher. Mike is unique among bodybuilding writers to organize his thoughts in a larger system re reality. That is philosophy.
I agree that some philosophers are difficult to read and comprehend. I cite Kant and Sartre. Maybe there is a problem in the translations? Both apparently giants in the
discipline but not easy to fathom. Plato wrote for the masses. David Hume is probably the epitome of a clear thinking philosopher. I also like Karl Popper who wrote
about the philosophy of science in Conjectures and Refutations. John Stuart Mill was a wonderful thinker and writer. He was way ahead of his time.
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Why do people take offense to g4p, there's a lot of old queens around town that I like very much, every once in a while I will catch one of them staring at me like they are trying to burn a whole in me with their glasses, but this is shit you gotta get over, they are good people. I understand why they don't like women, I don't even really like women but I need their love and they get me off sexually. If that weren't the case I wouldn't ever even look at a woman.
One time at the local cafe a couple girls left empty plates on the table and began to leave, this old gay guy said really loudly "I'm not your mother, clean your table" and stood their and waited as they did so before he took a seat at the table. He had my respect form then on. He also offers me a spot at his table whenever the place is full, very nice man, sometimes I catch him looking at me strangely lol, but whatever. I respect the man.
g4p aint nothing to sneeze at, being beautiful gives you a certain amount of power, a certain amount of real estate in people's minds, to translate this power into money is to realize that power. Like when a stock goes up in a company you own, and you sell the stock, you just realized a gain. Realize your power motherfuckers, don't be ashamed
A lot of it has to do with ego and insecurity. Many guys believe they can tell when someone is gay. When they learn that someone they looked up to does/did G4P it yokes them out of their complacency. Maybe their powers of perception are not as keen as they thought. Similarly, their image of what a man hetero or gay man looks like or behaves like is also shattered. If the big muscle guy is doing g4p and you didn’t know about it, who else don’t you know about? If other people know about it (and you didn’t) what assumptions might people make about you? Does every big guy do g4p? If you have big muscles and show off your body to other men are you suspect for doing g4p? It's a slippery slope. :-\
Mike definitely did g4p. I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.
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Yeah, I kinda get why, I'm just saying relax. When ugly or fat girls talk to me, I don't shoo them away, neither do I to guys, admiration is admiration.
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Vince, guys who are "severely antigay" are blokes who have sucked cock before.
Truly straight men are indifferent about homosexuals.
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Vince, guys who are "severely antigay" are blokes who have sucked cock before.
Truly straight men are indifferent about homosexuals.
I think this is spot on.
A lot of anti-gays are even closet homos.
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wasn't there a politician who was staunchly anti gay then he got pulled over for drunk driving and he was coming home from a gay bar?
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Can't translate... can't picture him running around the gym naked and looney toonz either...
The most well known beard in bodybuilding. He seems so small compared to today's competitors, good physique though.
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Mike definitely did g4p. I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.
I know one queen who swears he had both, during the same month, doing sessions for him. I will call him tomorrow and see if he has any pictures that he wouldn't mind sharing.
"1"
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When muscle heroes fall they fall hard. :(
And, yes, Mike did G4P.
I love these guys who get mouthy about someone who's not around to defend. This Bay degenerate needs to watch what he says.
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Here we go again.
(On another note) Mike liked to correlate science with bodybuilding. In order to do that, he felt the need to demonstrate the objectivity of science, therefore rationalizing that there must also be a *science* to bodybuilding. This is where his "dogma" set in. Objectivism does not allow for any subjectivity.
Ayn Rand and books like "the Fountainhead" helped support his writings. Why? Because she was totally immersed in Objectivism.
Reading what he wrote with that objective point of view was quite compelling and convincing, the problem is "there are many ways to skin a cat"
You can get from California to New York more than one way, as is the case in bodybuilding. Not one person, successful or un-successful has achieved their goals in the *exact* same way.
Mike utilized analogies that were very convincing, and based on science. That did not make them *right* per se, but they did provide an interesting read. He also used verbology that nearly always required a dictionary on hand, possibly even more than a Standard Version.
Mike found his "niche" and he went with it. It is unfortunate that he had to become so delusional in his latter years. He definitely had motivation and a busy mind.
Many, many bodybuilders have taken pieces of his "philosophy" and added them to their own programs as they saw fit. Lee Labrada and Dorian Yates are two of them.
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I love these guys who get mouthy about someone who's not around to defend. This Bay degenerate needs to watch what he says.
Your exact location???
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Your exact location???
Venice Beach.. North of Orange County... look for the cigarette smoke
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Venice Beach.. North of Orange County... look for the cigarette smoke
LOL! Are you the only dude in Venice Beach who is smoking? I highly doubt that. There's a whole lot of folks in Venice Beach. Nice place though if you like canals. :)
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Gay4pay might mean different things to different people. It is an easy step to believe those who do that kind of stuff are gay themselves.
We have heard stories about musclemen in LA doing all sorts of things they wouldn't ordinarily do so that they could live the lifestyle and not have to work.
I suppose those muscleheads knew who was offering what and I suppose posing for gay men was something that started some guys out in that direction.
Apparently some guy used to let bodybuilders stay at his place for free. He never touched them but the muscleheads had to walk around the place in underwear
and that sort of thing. When a Dr Michael W visited English Bay Beach in Vancouver in July of 1970 he told me that Arnold and Franco and Joe and heaps of the
top guys were involved in the gay community. I honestly didn't know what to think. This was a doctor who prescribed anabolics to the bodybuilders. I suppose
a few guys who lacked funds might have had to pay for their gear in other ways. The good doctor lost interest in helping me be Mr Universe when I invited him
home to my place for dinner....to meet my wife.
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What Mike tried to get across is that though in one sense we are all unique and different; in another sense: biologically, physiologically, we are all identical. We all function with the exact same principles: carbon base life form, cardiovascular and respiratory operate the same way for everybody. How we need the same macronutrients for energy, micronutrients for various bodily functions. If this wasn't the case then such a thing as medical science could not exist.
There does exist a general OPITIMAL method for muscle hypertrophy that exists and applies to everyone. The only difference is the specifics and the response. For example, if you have a bacterial infection an antibiotic treatment is the optimal way to treat that infection . This treatment will vary with the individual as well as the response. For instance, I happen to be allergic to penicillin so an alternative antibiotic was use, tetracycline. So though the specific varied the general principle still applied to me as it does to everybody. Of course there are cases where a person, due to a myriad of reasons, are still not able to recover from the infection and even die. But the general principle remains that it is antibiotics that is use to combat bacterial infections.
Everyone needs calories to survive and function. How many calories varies among individuals. So again, when it comes to how things effect the human body the sane general principles apply to EVERYBODY and only the specifics vary. In the famous Miami shoot out, a bullet that blew out the heart of the criminal was still not enough to prevent him from killing three more officers with his Ruger Mini-14. Blood was still circulating just long enough for him to get off a few more shots. A bullet to the thigh of the criminal during the infamous LA shootout was enough to end it right there. Same general principle applied it was specifics that varied.
With bodybuilding the three basic principles are frequency (how often you train), duration (how long you train) and intensity (how hard you train). Those are the necessary ingredients that apply to everybody. Nobody is going to get big muscles without progressive over load (and by progressive I don't mean just more resistance but rather progressive stimuli), for a certain number of times and for a certain amount of time. It's finding the optimal protocol as it applies to each individual. Therein lies the rub.
But trenbolona and HGH makes this all pretty much moot.
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A lot of it has to do with ego and insecurity. Many guys believe they can tell when someone is gay. When they learn that someone they looked up to does/did G4P it yokes them out of their complacency. Maybe their powers of perception are not as keen as they thought. Similarly, their image of what a man hetero or gay man looks like or behaves like is also shattered. If the big muscle guy is doing g4p and you didn’t know about it, who else don’t you know about? If other people know about it (and you didn’t) what assumptions might people make about you? Does every big guy do g4p? If you have big muscles and show off your body to other men are you suspect for doing g4p? It's a slippery slope. :-\
Mike definitely did g4p. I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.
Most of the guys that do it - do it to fund there drug habits and BB lifestyles, how many are actualy gay though? I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money.. does that bother the gay fellows that pay money to these guys knowing they are not gay and its just for $ or does it make it even more enjoyable making a straight guy do things out of desperation for drug money, sure some would be gay but alot arnt and the gay $ seems to be endless with it comes to paying for muscular bodies to pose whack off and take a length up the clacker .
are gays that pay for g4p known as johns like female hookers clients or nancys ? :D
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(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/mentzer/mm11.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/m67.jpg)
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I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money..
I think most female hookers/porn actresses that do bi stuff aren't into MEN in their real lives, it's all for money.
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When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it
this is true, but they shouldnt have given up on life
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The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.
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I like how the cameraman focused on that chick that went in (in the beginning)
Mike sounds and looks like a depressed, chain smoking Ned Flanders.
Both seemed to be depressing to be around, what with their Porno mustaches, and 70s glass frames.
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Great post. Explained it very well. Up to the last sentence. Then you went and ruined it ;(
What Mike tried to get across is that though in one sense we are all unique and different; in another sense: biologically, physiologically, we are all identical. We all function with the exact same principles: carbon base life form, cardiovascular and respiratory operate the same way for everybody. How we need the same macronutrients for energy, micronutrients for various bodily functions. If this wasn't the case then such a thing as medical science could not exist.
There does exist a general OPITIMAL method for muscle hypertrophy that exists and applies to everyone. The only difference is the specifics and the response. For example, if you have a bacterial infection an antibiotic treatment is the optimal way to treat that infection . This treatment will vary with the individual as well as the response. For instance, I happen to be allergic to penicillin so an alternative antibiotic was use, tetracycline. So though the specific varied the general principle still applied to me as it does to everybody. Of course there are cases where a person, due to a myriad of reasons, are still not able to recover from the infection and even die. But the general principle remains that it is antibiotics that is use to combat bacterial infections.
Everyone needs calories to survive and function. How many calories varies among individuals. So again, when it comes to how things effect the human body the sane general principles apply to EVERYBODY and only the specifics vary. In the famous Miami shoot out, a bullet that blew out the heart of the criminal was still not enough to prevent him from killing three more officers with his Ruger Mini-14. Blood was still circulating just long enough for him to get off a few more shots. A bullet to the thigh of the criminal during the infamous LA shootout was enough to end it right there. Same general principle applied it was specifics that varied.
With bodybuilding the three basic principles are frequency (how often you train), duration (how long you train) and intensity (how hard you train). Those are the necessary ingredients that apply to everybody. Nobody is going to get big muscles without progressive over load (and by progressive I don't mean just more resistance but rather progressive stimuli), for a certain number of times and for a certain amount of time. It's finding the optimal protocol as it applies to each individual. Therein lies the rub.
But trenbolona and HGH makes this all pretty much moot.
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...Pretty pathetic. When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it. Yes give the guys a break. But let's keep it real.
The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.
x2 :'(
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How many bozo bodybuilders are still relevant and so hotly debated as Mike Mentzer? I don't think any other bodybuilder had such an impact on training methodology than Mentzer. Some to praise him and some to criticize him. Even Arnold came out of retire just to get back at Mentzer (stated in the biography "Fantastic."
There's not a bodybuilding board in the world that doesn't have some Mentzer debate going on at some time
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30years of discussion :o :o
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LOL! Are you the only dude in Venice Beach who is smoking? I highly doubt that. There's a whole lot of folks in Venice Beach. Nice place though if you like canals. :)
Different kinda *smoke* ;D
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Most of the guys that do it - do it to fund there drug habits and BB lifestyles, how many are actualy gay though? I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money.. does that bother the gay fellows that pay money to these guys knowing they are not gay and its just for $ or does it make it even more enjoyable making a straight guy do things out of desperation for drug money, sure some would be gay but alot arnt and the gay $ seems to be endless with it comes to paying for muscular bodies to pose whack off and take a length up the clacker .
are gays that pay for g4p known as johns like female hookers clients or nancys ? :D
Bay no likey ? :'(
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Great post. Explained it very well. Up to the last sentence. Then you went and ruined it ;(
He should have added "supposedly" ~ but then that wouldn't be very *objective*
Mike made many very convincing arguments for his "theories" ~ of this there is no doubt.
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For fuck sake, give it a rest.
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For fuck sake, give it a rest.
I thought the argument has been going on for over 30 years. Isn't it a tradition by now?
Wait... what are we giving a rest to? Blue colored font?
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The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.
Exactly, they fed off of each others misery---misery loves company. And that's why Ray couldn't get a girl. Both seem miserable wrecks to be around-----Ayn Rand does that to people.
One becomes "objectively miserable".
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Ray and Mike were both realists and cynical because of this. Both were intense guys. Yes, it was sad to hear Ray say he couldn't get a gal. This was the guy who dated Rachel McLish for a while. I introduced Ray to Pam who he married. They eventually divorced so I guess Ray wasn't too good with the ladies. You have to wonder why those two intelligent guys messed around with drugs the way they did. They seemed to live and train with the same intensity. Both took risks and paid the price for what they did. At least they looked after each other near the end. I spent some time with Ray in 1991 and he had a good business going with his MedX clinics using those special machines. He was driving a new BMW 535. He opened another gym after that then tried to win another contest but got sick while huge. It seems that just about everything they did as adult men revolved around bodybuilding.
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I was friends with Mike. I only casually knew Ray.
Mike had his issues, as do we all. In the 3-5 years (1992 - 1997) that I spoke with him often, he was absolutely more positive than negative. He would laugh, smile, talk about cars, bodybuilding, whatever. Posed for every picture and signed every autograph that was ever asked of him at Golds Venice.
Ray had his issues, as do we all. Whenever we spoke (1994 - 1997) I always knew where the conversation was going- nasty. I never heard him say anything nice or positive about anyone or anything. Sorry.
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:)
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I was friends with Mike. I only casually knew Ray.
Mike had his issues, as do we all. In the 3-5 years (1992 - 1997) that I spoke with him often, he was absolutely more positive than negative. He would laugh, smile, talk about cars, bodybuilding, whatever. Posed for every picture and signed every autograph that was ever asked of him at Golds Venice.
Ray had his issues, as do we all. Whenever we spoke (1994 - 1997) I always knew where the conversation was going- nasty. I never heard him say anything nice or positive about anyone or anything. Sorry.
Good stuff.
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Yeah, that is what people perceived Ray as being. He always looked mean but it was just an attitude. If he didn't like something he didn't hold back. He always made me laugh because he was so serious. Take playing table tennis. Well, we had a professional table set up at my place so Ray, my son Zorba and me would all compete to see who the champ was. My son beat us both. Well, Ray was a fierce competitor. This was life and death stuff and he sure didn't like to lose. He had a good smash but also missed a lot of the time. I was reasonably good at the game but I was even better at talking. It would piss Ray off no end. Eventually he said he wouldn't play me if I talked during the game. LOL, I knew then that he was finished. I was his master and he would bash his bat on the table.
When we drove to Golds in April 1991 he would point out guys that he and Mike had trained and who were now personal trainers. He laughed at how those fake trainers thought they were good.
On the way to the gym Ray insisted we visit a cafe because he was going to meet a hot gal there. So we had a coffee, then a refill and waited and waited. The gal didn't show. Ray was livid. So he swore and said let's go. I thought we were going to the gym but Ray circled the block to check the cafe. Nope, the gal wasn't there. Apparently he met her at some pool bar. He returned there afterwards to verbally abuse her. The bouncers told Ray they didn't want him to come back there. The fact that Ray was married to Pam at the time is irrelevant. I wasn't too bad with the gals so I guess Ray was trying to show off. Nope, I never met any of the hot gals that he fancied.
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Ray had a good sense of humour and would clown around.
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ROFL sorry but that was hillarious - fuckin tweakers lol..
Ditto....why is this moron held in any regard ? he's a fucking glassed out meth-head
IT just goes to show you how idiotic and low-rent bodybuilding is....that someone in this industry would waste a minute of film on those two junkies
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Ayn Rand does that to people.
One becomes "objectively miserable".
Not all people. Her writing is very intense and passionate, and her principles extreme and absolute, so you either hate it or love it - there's seldom any middle ground. But a lot of people who read her works and get inspired think that they have to behave in the uncompromising, puritan way the main characters in her novels do, which is, of course, not right.
I know people who've taken up smoking after reading Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead, just to convince themselves that they're more objective because of it. These are the same people who just parrot her writings like some of the meatheads here do with gh15's way of "speaking". They'll despise Kant or adore Rachmaninoff simply because she did the same, which is nothing short of pathetic if you ask me.
I've read all of Rand's writings multiple times and consider myself one of her biggest fans, but I could never do the stuff that her misguided fanboys do. Her philosophy is great (or full of shit, depending on who you ask), but what she presented in her novels were idealistic, extremely "pure" characterizations to drive home her POV. You can't be Howard Roark IRL - you should just get inspired by the character and maybe improve your life in some way by incorporating the principles that make/drive him. Like Batman, he's just a symbol you can draw courage from and stand up to bullies, to give an example, not put on a mask and start fighting crime in the streets with home made gadgets :D
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There is only so much you can take when reading philosophy....
I don't care who it is. There comes a point where you just have to put the book down and say "enough is enough"
"A rock is a rock..." seriously.
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There is only so much you can take when reading philosophy....
I don't care who it is. There comes a point where you just have to put the book down and say "enough is enough"
"A rock is a rock..." seriously.
That goes for any field of study or endeavour, really. The threshold of each person varies from one extreme to the other. Good philosophy should make you think in and about abstract principles and enable you to apply those to concrete situations successfully, while showing the methodology at work if needed, so anyone can break it down and tell if a mistake has been made. I'd say AR was damn good at that, even though not everyone will agree, since you have to understand her way of thinking, which you can't, unless you've read, digested and understood her basic tenets.
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That goes for any field of study or endeavour, really. The threshold of each person varies from one extreme to another. Good philosophy should make you think in and about abstract principles and enable you to apply those to concrete situations successfully, while showing the methodology at work if needed, so anyone can break it down and tell if a mistake has been made. I'd say AR was damn good at that, even though not everyone will agree, since you have to understand her way of thinking, which you can't, unless you've read, digested and understood her basic tenets.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I have everything from Nietzsche to Plato.
I've even amused myself through Aliester Crowley's "book of lies" (not that I would even consider him a philosopher)
At the same time, I will also read through collegiate late levels of psychology. I get interested, but I also get muddled. It's from one extreme to the other...
Of course, it doesn't help that I also am a firm believer in God, which requires faith, not objectivity. I don't want to have that last statement taken out of context. I am a Christian, but I love to stimulate my mind, and I also like to hear other people's points of view. I know many Atheists that just blow me out of the water. I don't argue with them, but I do like to bring them to the point of being somewhat compelling in their "belief" (or better yet, *lack thereof*)
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haaha, the photo of vince with blue shorts on, maybe I'm drunk but that looks like a ton of shit shove into a pair of blue panties
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Did either of them ever marry? Or have a kids? Were they lifelong bachelors? ???
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haaha, the photo of vince with blue shorts on, maybe I'm drunk but that looks like a ton of shit shove into a pair of blue panties
Fashions have changed since those days. Someday years from now, someone will post a photo of a fellow is baggy basketball shorts, sagging off his hips with only a few inches of lower leg showing between the tops of some brightly colored, jell soled high-tops and the bottom of the skirt like shorts....and everyone will laugh at how funny they look.
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stop talking about these miserable and depressed shit physique bodybuilders. fucking wankers.
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the shorts are one thing, the pile of shitin them is another, can u believe that guy is on the juice hanging with bbers talking weights lol
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stop talking about these miserable and depressed shit physique bodybuilders. fucking wankers.
Looking though your posts in various threads, one thing stands out and is consistent. This would be your total negativity and hostility. You must be one unhappy (unrageable) dude.
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Looking though your posts in various threads, one thing stands out and is consistent. This would be your total negativity and hostility. You must be one unhappy (unrageable) dude.
why you looking through my posts? u gay brah?
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Those interested in philosophy but find it boring or too difficult to fathom might be rewarded by reading Karl Popper's work. Do a search online for a start. This is a vital and current subject of interest to modern philosophers.
I don't think Mike ever married. Ray did because I found him his wife. That was while he was staying at my place in Sydney with his partner, Kathy. He had a daughter, Dagny, with Kathy. He emigrated to Australia after selling his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance. I guess he was trying to get away from LA and start all over in Australia. It didn't work out for some reason. They separated while here and Kathy stayed on for a while before returning to America. Ray had to pick up his daughter from the police station at Redondo Beach. I met little Dagny in 1991 when she was 5. She was just a baby when at our place. Kathy was listening to some mentor over in America. Ray wasn't violent as far as I knew. He looked mean and he talked that way but he was a softy.
Ray married Pam who worked as a telephone operator in Sydney. She was from New Zealand and already had a son. They stayed together at Torrance for several years but I don't think either was happily married. That is just my opinion.
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Fashions have changed since those days. Someday years from now, someone will post a photo of a fellow is baggy basketball shorts, sagging off his hips with only a few inches of lower leg showing between the tops of some brightly colored, jell soled high-tops and the bottom of the skirt like shorts....and everyone will laugh at how funny they look.
Yup. ;D What those baggy pants fools don't realize is that they look like the 3 Stooges going golfing. Except Moe, Larry and Curly had class.
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why you looking through my posts? u gay brah?
As a matter of fact....Don't flatter yourself. It is just curious to me when someone only posts negatively. You should look at your own posts, you'll see what I mean. BTW, your handle "unrageable" suggests to me that you'd be mellow, not hostile and negative. Just saying.
Since you asked, I'm bisexual but not in the market. ;D
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Those interested in philosophy but find it boring or too difficult to fathom might be rewarded by reading Karl Popper's work. Do a search online for a start. This is a vital and current subject of interest to modern philosophers.
I don't think Mike ever married. Ray did because I found him his wife. That was while he was staying at my place in Sydney with his partner, Kathy. He had a daughter, Dagny, with Kathy. He emigrated to Australia after selling his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance. I guess he was trying to get away from LA and start all over in Australia. It didn't work out for some reason. They separated while here and Kathy stayed on for a while before returning to America. Ray had to pick up his daughter from the police station at Redondo Beach. I met little Dagny in 1991 when she was 5. She was just a baby when at our place. Kathy was listening to some mentor over in America. Ray wasn't violent as far as I knew. He looked mean and he talked that way but he was a softy.
Ray married Pam who worked as a telephone operator in Sydney. She was from New Zealand and already had a son. They stayed together at Torrance for several years but I don't think either was happily married. That is just my opinion.
Did they name the girl after Dagny Taggart in Atlas Shrugged?
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I believe so. My kids told Ray and Kathy that wasn't a good name because she would be called Dag for short, which is a demeaning name in Australia. She would be 24 or 25 years old now.
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Ray had a good sense of humour and would clown around.
Vince, what year was that pic taken? Also, how many times have you visited California, what years and about how long did you stay?
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Looking though your posts in various threads, one thing stands out and is consistent. This would be your total negativity and hostility. You must be one unhappy (unrageable) dude.
He registered on June 20, 2011. Guess which gimmick. ::)
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The photo of Ray was from 1988 I believe. I was in LA briefly in 1967. I returned for a month in October 1968. Then I returned for my honeymoon in June 69. 1980 was the next visit but this time I brought by two youngest children, Lani and Zorba, with me. Golds Gym was in Santa Monica then. I wasn't there again until April 1991 when I stayed at Ray's place in Torrance/Redondo Beach. I was in Orange County in September 2000 for a few days then visited again in September 2004 for a week. I visited Golds Gym, Venice on every occasion since 68.
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He registered on June 20, 2011. Guess which gimmick. ::)
Who? I'm just becoming aware of him and that other tool, average gym rat. And it cracks me up when he's trying to make a point, like Arnold was the best in 1980, he always ends with something like "And if you don't agree you're a blah, blah, blah."
That pretty much ends the debate right there. And not because of convincing debate or arguments, just "agree with me or you're a .... (usually something gay related). That's always the sign of a tiny, tiny mind.
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I bet you have some great stories to tell, Vince.
Did you ever get to meet Mickey Hartigay, or see Arnold try to portray him in the Jayne Mansfield story
How about George Eiferman? I've always been curious about him and his workouts?
Vince Gironda... did you ever get to workout at his gym and deal with his so called *attitude*?
Leo Robert, Freddy Ortiz, Reeves, Edinger, Jack Delinger... any of those guys?
I know you got to workout with Larry Scott.
Curiousity killed the cat, you know?
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The photo of Ray was from 1988 I believe. I was in LA briefly in 1967. I returned for a month in October 1968. Then I returned for my honeymoon in June 69. 1980 was the next visit but this time I brought by two youngest children, Lani and Zorba, with me. Golds Gym was in Santa Monica then. I wasn't there again until April 1991 when I stayed at Ray's place in Torrance/Redondo Beach. I was in Orange County in September 2000 for a few days then visited again in September 2004 for a week. I visited Golds Gym, Venice on every occasion since 68.
I started training at Gold's Venice in 1991. I remember you now. You gave me that look of utter contempt when I was doing tricep pushdowns with a rope. You bastard!
They even had that Keiser equipment in the back. I loved that equipment because it was air pressured and easy on the joints. And you could manipulate the resistance while training. I use to do the chest flys where I could barely get one rep to full contraction and then just hold it as I kept increasing the resistance with the foot pedal. It was like prying my chest apart. I could get about 6 reps before I was done but still hit a few quick partials. I'd do the same with the leg press, pull down and shoulder press. Not all the time. Just when I really wanted to turn it up.
God, I was such a bad ass back in the day.
Do you remember seeing Mike Mentzer training people there. It was Don Ross that introduced me when I told Don he was my bodybuilding mentor. It was quite a thrill at the time meeting Mike. He always called me by my name after that. I just remember being shock at the sound of his voice. Not what I pictured at all. Very squeaky and dorky.
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I bet you have some great stories to tell, Vince.
Did you ever get to meet Mickey Hartigay, or see Arnold try to portray him in the Jayne Mansfield story
How about George Eiferman? I've always been curious about him and his workouts?
Vince Gironda... did you ever get to workout at his gym and deal with his so called *attitude*?
Leo Robert, Freddy Ortiz, Reeves, Edinger, Jack Delinger... any of those guys?
I know you got to workout with Larry Scott.
Curiousity killed the cat, you know?
Why do you think I put up with this cantankerous old codger?
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Why do you think I put up with this cantankerous old codger?
I may be a bit slow, but I'm catching up. He may go into some diatribes from time to time, but he's also holding back. Maybe he should write a book... could be interesting.
Still waiting for the "before and after" stuff though (which could also go in his book) ;D
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Yes, of course I went to Vince's Gym in Studio City. Did that in October 1968. I just had my photos of Arnold developed that I took a few days before. When I met Vince I told him I had some photos of Arnold. He told me to fetch them from my car. So I zipped out and got them. He started thumbing through them and then said out real loud, "Here's a guy who carries photos of guys in his wallet!" Encouraged by the guys standing around his counter he thought he could do better so repeated what he had said but louder this time. From that instant I knew he was a dickhead. How embarrassing. I looked around his gym and it seemed spartan to me. Simple and basic equipment, many benches made of wood. I had a workout, of course, and even sipped water between sets like Larry Scott used to do. While doing triceps pressdowns I noticed a round steel beam close by. It gave me an idea about having a back support for that exercise and I eventually built several variations of that pressdown station.
Gironda had heaps of old photos on the walls of his gym. Funny thing was that he was in almost everyone of them! Now that guy had an ego. To this day I have not put up a photo of myself in my gym. My family put up a couple but there still isn't a big photo of my winning the Mr Canada title.
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no one gives a shit about Mr Canada that's why.
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I met Leo Robert in Montreal in 1965. He was running a small gym in the French section. He was pleasant to me and showed me a new routine for biceps.
I took a couple of photos outside his gym. Leo won Mr Canada and Mr Universe. He had perfect rows of abs. Nice guy. Joe used to feature Leo when he ran his magazines from Montreal.
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he pleasured you? LOL :o :o :o :o :-X :-X :-X :-X
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no one gives a shit about Mr Canada that's why.
Nobody gives a shit about you. You are the absolute classic pussy who gets bullied in real life and suddenly grows some balls when hiding behind a computer screen. I can only imagine what you look like.
I love slapping around little bitches like you.
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Kinda weird that Vince would have only equipment made from metal in his gym in the early 60's then have a lot of wooden equipment in the late 60's and beyond.
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Nobody gives a shit about you. You are the absolute classic pussy who gets bullied in real life and suddenly grows some balls when hiding behind a computer screen. I can only imagine what you look like.
I love slapping around little bitches like you.
(http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/gif/175.gif)
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;D
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Gironda was outspoken and outrageous but he was an independent thinker. I guess he was smarter than the average Joe who came to train there. I visited his gym in 1980 but he wasn't there. I got his staff to call him on the phone. I told him I called my gym Vince's Gym in Sydney and he didn't mind a bit. He was working on writing articles for the magazines.
He installed a women's gym upstairs but it was basic and dark up there. That is what everyone did in those days because gyms offered aerobics and women were flocking to gyms. In the sixties only the health spas had women members. He didn't change downstairs much and I thought he should upgrade the equipment to keep up with the times. It was sad to see him close after being the best known gym in the world for a time. He sold Vince's Gym T-shirts and courses long before anyone else was making money out of it. One year he got flooded out and that took the wind out of his sails. He died a month of so before his 80th birthday when some friends were going to hold a big party for him.
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I actually think that the photo you have posted (often ;D) is very reminiscent of a combo between Reeves and Zane.
BTW, what was it that created so much trauma for Vince? It had something to do with his son. I can't help but think his son's problems must have distracted his business a bit more than he could handle. Maybe his boy died?
Was Vince single? Wasn't the son's mother around... siblings?
The other thing I was curious about with him is that he has always looked like a smoker and possibly a hard alcohol drinker. Not that he "partied" the way we look at it (context) these days, but more of like *vices* ~ but the kind that didn't keep him from still hitting the weights. He appeared to have maintained good shape right up to the end.
In other words, there are guys at my gym that smoke dope and drink a six pack every night after work, but are at the gym religiously at 6AM in the morning, and then off to work. It's a mentality that I can't quite understand; nonetheless, it does exist in some folks. Maybe the kind of people that don't stress out all the time?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Gironda
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In his later years Vince G married a young blonde lady , Madeline I think , not 100% sure on the name.. but she featured in a few of the articles written about him in MMI in the 90s.
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Cool pics Vince. 8)
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I viewed that video with a lot of interest because Ray stayed at my place for about a year in 87-88. I stayed at Ray's place for a couple of weeks in 1991. Jusup Wilkosz was the German bodybuilder who defeated Ray at the IFBB World championships in 1979 and denied Ray that title. Ray won the AAU Mr America in 1979. I guess Ray is relating this story about Jusup because he knew him. Ray was a serious guy and you can see it in the video. It was sad to hear him say he couldn't get any women. That wasn't the Ray I knew. He still carried himself with dignity but Mike looked high. Mike did use a word I never heard before so his mind wasn't gone. Mike was 49 and Ray was 47 but they both looked frail and much older. They both died not long after that video was taken. Those videos were supposed to make Mike a lot of money. Ray was on dialysis so his health was shot. When Mike died of some sort of heart failure it impacted on Ray because now he couldn't get a kidney transplant and regain his health. The shock was so great it ended up killing Ray. He died two days after Mike.
the article you posted with this link says they both died from an overdose of morphine
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SAD>>>>>
And to think that Ronnie Coleman at 47 its about just 2 or 3 years younger than this two when that video was taped (filmed).
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SAD>>>>>
And to think that Ronnie Coleman at 47 its about just 2 or 3 years younger than this two when that video was taped (filmed).
I think Ray was 47 in that video
they both look old and tired and Mike seems to be "medicated"
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These brothers are a couple of really sad messed up dudes in this video. Hopefully, they are not an accurate representation of the people of bodybuilding. Both dudes seemed really stoned in the video.
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Fuck off, Mr. 150mg prop/150mg winstrol. ::) ::) :D
Still more than my current "cycle"... ;D
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Still more than my current "cycle"... ;D
Which is...?
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Which is...?
4 workouts a week, 4 meals a day, working in 3 jobs at 5 places, hard sex for cardio...
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4 workouts a week, 4 meals a day, working in 3 jobs at 5 places, hard sex for cardio...
Ha ha! Where's that pic you posted of the cover with T?
I was gonna "one up" you, but then I realized, I just have an autograph, I would have rather been the dude hangin' with her!
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i56/tricepora/resizedtimeacover.jpg)
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Check out this video of Mike training Boyer Coe. Is it just me, or does Mike SOUND like a COMPLETELY different person? What happened to his voice?
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Then we have this one of him talking and looking like a different person as well (skip to 2:50)