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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 11:26:05 AM

Title: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 11:26:05 AM
Kristol is happy Obama is mostly a neocon :D

Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: 240 is Back on October 25, 2011, 11:27:33 AM
Someone please send Herman Cain an email, and explain that neocon thing.

Bill Kristol loves Obama.  He'll have to decide if he prefers the pussy repubs, or the "bomb em all" dems this time.

Kinda gets interesting here - the warmongers might lose a little support for the repubs.  Romney talks nonstop about rebuilding our military, but his criticism of Obama is nothing more than a criticism of Bush's war policy! 
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 11:31:17 AM
I just love the fact that liberals still yell about neocons but fail to see that the Obama admin pretty much adopted the neocon agenda.  Libs like TA and Blacken ARE now neocon supporters lol...

Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 11:48:07 AM
Remember after Obama won in 08, the neocons and their supporters scurried like rats afraid the blame would fall on them.  They tried to hide under new labels, some going to the tea party, others talking about true conservatism like they never supported the neocon agenda.  But today they're all pretty much dusting off the neoconservative flag, writing new books and feeling good about themselves.  Why?  Because Obama has been instrumental in vindicating them in their eyes.  Yes they still act like they're not happy with this and that, but overall they're thrilled with Obama.
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 25, 2011, 11:51:22 AM
Remember after Obama won in 08, the neocons and their supporters scurried like rats afraid the blame would fall on them.  They tried to hide under new labels, some going to the tea party, others talking about true conservatism like they never supported the neocon agenda.  But today they're all pretty much dusting off the neoconservative flag, writing new books and feeling good about themselves.  Why?  Because Obama has been instrumental in vindicating them in their eyes.  Yes they still act like they're not happy with this and that, but overall they're thrilled with Obama.

i agree - guys like Frum, kristol, et al, love Obama but cant say so for obvious reasons. 
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 12:08:39 PM
Obama has always sought input from diverse sources (which often causes criticism from his more liberal supporters)

Unlike the Republican and Tea Baggers, Obama is smart enough to know it's helpful to understand your opponents and to try to find compromises (again, at the criticism of his more liberal supporters) to try to appeal to a broad cross section of interests and people.

If the Repubs were smart they would do the same thing

Instead the Repubs actually run from their own legislation as soon as Obama get's on board
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 12:37:20 PM
LOL straw... Lame excuse... It's a little bigger than seeking out various opinions...  The fact is Obama ran against neoconservative foreign policy and from day one in office pretty much kept up the neoconservative foreign policy making it look more like a 3rd term of Bush...  That's why Kristol can call Obama a "born again neocon" and be happy about saying it.

You voted for change, you definitely didn't get it here.  Now you got guys like blacken and TA that flat out love Obama's new neocon image instead of calling him out for it.

Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 25, 2011, 12:38:36 PM
LOL straw... Lame excuse... It's a little bigger than seeking out various opinions...  The fact is Obama ran against neoconservative foreign policy and from day one in office pretty much kept up the neoconservative foreign policy making it look more like a 3rd term of Bush...  That's why Kristol can call Obama a "born again neocon" and be happy about saying it.

You voted for change, you definitely didn't get it here.  Now you got guys like blacken and TA that flat out love Obama's new neocon image instead of calling him out for it.




Libs like Straw, TA, Blackass, Andre  - LOVE WAR - when its their guy sending the birds to drop bombs.   
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 12:41:01 PM

Libs like Straw, TA, Blackass, Andre  - LOVE WAR - when its their guy sending the birds to drop bombs.  
pretty sad...  I wouldn't have believed it but it's true...  They were all so anti-war under bush... Now they're loud as hell with the "War is Peace" bullshit...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 12:46:54 PM
LOL straw... Lame excuse... It's a little bigger than seeking out various opinions...  The fact is Obama ran against neoconservative foreign policy and from day one in office pretty much kept up the neoconservative foreign policy making it look more like a 3rd term of Bush...  That's why Kristol can call Obama a "born again neocon" and be happy about saying it.

You voted for change, you definitely didn't get it here.  Now you got guys like blacken and TA that flat out love Obama's new neocon image instead of calling him out for it.

what "excuse"

Obama has been talking to all sides of the aisle since before he got in office

it's one of the things that his ardent supporters have criticized him for and in spite of the far right calling him a marxist, communist, socialist or even worse....liberal, he's been a centrist with quite a bit of true conservative (not the freaks we have now) since the beginning

btw - have you ever heard the phrase "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

there might be a bit of that going on too
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: blacken700 on October 25, 2011, 12:51:10 PM
for the americans on flight 103 i'm glad they killed gadhafi, for the 3000 americans that died in the towers i'm glad they killed osama bin laden.if you don't feel that way so be it
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:18:06 PM
what "excuse"

Obama has been talking to all sides of the aisle since before he got in office

it's one of the things that his ardent supporters have criticized him for and in spite of the far right calling him a marxist, communist, socialist or even worse....liberal, he's been a centrist with quite a bit of true conservative (not the freaks we have now) since the beginning

btw - have you ever heard the phrase "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

there might be a bit of that going on too
LOL...  You didn't read a thing I said did you?  If you did, yes, this is a very lame excuse...  Obama just decided to go neocon because he listens to everyone therefore liberals are willing to support these wars...  hahahaha... yea, kinda lame...

and priceless: Obama is only continuing neocon foreign policy to keep his enemies closer LOLOLOLOL...  jeez straw...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:23:53 PM
for the americans on flight 103 i'm glad they killed gadhafi, for the 3000 americans that died in the towers i'm glad they killed osama bin laden.if you don't feel that way so be it
and you'll be glad when we go after Iran after this latest assasination threat, and syria and on and on... I got it...

Here you go Blacken, wear it with pride :D
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: blacken700 on October 25, 2011, 01:26:27 PM
well i guess 99% of americans are neocons then  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:29:24 PM
well i guess 99% of americans are neocons then  :D :D :D
A lot of them hypocrites for denouncing Bush and the Neocons but all of a sudden loving it when Obama becomes one.... LOL... Sad, very sad.

enjoy your new hat.
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 01:31:56 PM
LOL...  You didn't read a thing I said did you?  If you did, yes, this is a very lame excuse...  Obama just decided to go neocon because he listens to everyone therefore liberals are willing to support these wars...  hahahaha... yea, kinda lame...

and priceless: Obama is only continuing neocon foreign policy to keep his enemies closer LOLOLOLOL...  jeez straw...

sorry, I forgot to address your belief (incorrect) that he ran against neocon foreign policy

Obama campaigned on putting more troops in Afghanistan which is exactly what he did

Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 01:34:03 PM
LOL...  You didn't read a thing I said did you?  If you did, yes, this is a very lame excuse...  Obama just decided to go neocon because he listens to everyone therefore liberals are willing to support these wars...  hahahaha... yea, kinda lame...

and priceless: Obama is only continuing neocon foreign policy to keep his enemies closer LOLOLOLOL...  jeez straw...

you've misunderstood my statement about enemies

I was referring to Krystol and other neocons and I said there could be a "a bit" fo that going on not that it was a primary tactic

not our actual enemies in foreign countries
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: blacken700 on October 25, 2011, 01:34:18 PM
a lot of them were agaist bush going into iraq,which had nothing to do with  9 11 most were for going into afghanistan to get osama bin laden
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:37:52 PM
oh blacken, where the hell are you getting your 99% from?


Is the U.S. Doing the Right Thing in Libya?
Right thing: 30%
Should not be involved: 59%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/08/politics/main20070229.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146738/americans-approve-military-action-against-libya.aspx
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
you've misunderstood my statement about enemies

I was referring to Krystol and other neocons and I said there could be a "a bit" fo that going on not that it was a primary tactic

not our actual enemies in foreign countries
No, I understood what you meant and that's what I was laughing my ass off on...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 01:40:08 PM
oh blacken, where the hell are you getting your 99% from?


Is the U.S. Doing the Right Thing in Libya?
Right thing: 30%
Should not be involved: 59%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/08/politics/main20070229.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146738/americans-approve-military-action-against-libya.aspx


your second link show 47% approve vs 37% disapprove
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 01:42:04 PM
No, I understood what you meant and that's what I was laughing my ass off on...

talking with Krystol (and not necessarily seeking out his advise) was the "keeping him closer" part

I never said anything about continuing "alleged" neocon foreign policy to keep "enemies" closer

Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:44:50 PM

your second link show 47% approve vs 37% disapprove
yea, I know...  I included a few links with a little time apart.  Blacken said 99%.... 47% sure is not anywhere close to that and the later poll shows even less saying we're doing the right thing.  I just wanted to see where he gets this 99% bs lol...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 01:52:03 PM
talking with Krystol (and not necessarily seeking out his advise) was the "keeping him closer" part

I never said anything about continuing "alleged" neocon foreign policy to keep "enemies" closer


The point of the thread, my point is clearly that Obama has adopted a neoconservative foreign policy so of course I include that in there.  If you're saying he's just talking with them to keep his enemies closer, that makes no sense whatsoever with Obama strongly siding with them on foreign policy since in office.  Yea, that's funny shit straw...

Oh sure, neocons still think Obama needs to be even harder.  They wanted him to commit to a larger and faster aggressive mission in Lybia but other than that, they're happy as hell with Obama.
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 02:11:01 PM
The point of the thread, my point is clearly that Obama has adopted a neoconservative foreign policy so of course I include that in there.  If you're saying he's just talking with them to keep his enemies closer, that makes no sense whatsoever with Obama strongly siding with them on foreign policy since in office.  Yea, that's funny shit straw...

Oh sure, neocons still think Obama needs to be even harder.  They wanted him to commit to a larger and faster aggressive mission in Lybia but other than that, they're happy as hell with Obama.

all I said is that Obama has been talking to Repubs/Neocons since before he got in office

I never said he adopted a neocon foreign policy to "keep them closer"

I also don't think he has adopted a neocon foreign policy

was his trip through the Arab world right after he got elected also part of that neocon foreign policy

As recently as this month you had Dick Cheney in the news demanding an apology from OBama for his criticism of Bush Administration foreign policy and not using the phrase ‘war on terror.’





Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 02:27:18 PM
all I said is that Obama has been talking to Repubs/Neocons since before he got in office

I never said he adopted a neocon foreign policy to "keep them closer"

I know Staw... You said he was meeting with them to keep his enemies closer in a thread where I made the freaking point that he has adopted neoconservative foreign policy.  That's the reason I INCLUDED IT.  ASSUMING YOU'RE REPLYING TO WHAT I'M SAYING IN THIS FUCKING THREAD.

who gives a shit what Darth Cheney says.  Other neocons will continue to say negative shit about Obama too.  That really doesn't change the fact that in this area Obama looks neoconservative and he ran in 08 promising the opposite!!!...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 25, 2011, 02:29:01 PM
I know Staw... You said he was meeting with them to keep his enemies closer in a thread where I made the freaking point that he has adopted neoconservative foreign policy.  That's the reason I INCLUDED IT.  ASSUMING YOU'RE REPLYING TO WHAT I'M SAYING IN THIS FUCKING THREAD.

who gives a shit what Darth Cheney says.  Other neocons will continue to say negative shit about Obama too.  That really doesn't change the fact that in this area Obama looks neoconservative and he ran in 08 promising the opposite!!!...

Obama promised a lot of things.   LMFAO!   
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 02:38:37 PM
Obama Administration’s Neocon Easter

Resurrecting the Neocons: Marc Grossman in … Richard Perle & Douglas Feith in Queue



Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has chosen a new special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan: a long-time controversial neocon, a man who has been famous for parading as a foreign agent in the lobby circuit, the scandalous former diplomat Marc Grossman. The not-so-gradual resurrection of the old neocon cabal under the Obama administration, led by Hillary Clinton, should not come as a surprise. According to Washington insiders, Richardl Perle and Douglas Feith have been consulted more than a few times in their ‘unofficial’ capacity, but are not far down in the queue to receive ‘official’ acknowledgement. This shouldn’t come as a surprise; at least to those who’ve been following the steady momentum building at the Obama White House towards a soon-to-come Neocon Easter.

Hillary Clinton appointed Dennis Ross as Special Advisor for the Persian Gulf and Southwest Asia; a man well-known as a hard-core neocon,  Paul Wolfowitz’ protégé, cofounder of the AIPAC sponsored Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and one of the loudest advocates for the Israel lobby. A man who is known to consider himself more Israeli than American; a Jewish American who is known to have spent ‘a lot of time’ in Israel to find his real identity-nationality.

We had Frederick Kagan, a neocon of choice for Mr. Obama, who was hired to manage General Petraeus on Afghanistan. A man whose father was born into a Jewish family in Lithuania; a man cherished by his bosses at the American Enterprise Institute; a man who authored the book, While America Sleeps, arguing in favor of a large increase in military spending and warned of future threats, including the imaginary WMD program in Iraq. We are talking about the man who was one of the main signatories of Project for the New American Century manifesto – the Neocon Bible. The man who was one of the Bush-Cheney administration’s favorite masterminds when it came to perpetual wars.
Let’s jump to our newest and by far the boldest Neocon addition to the Obama-Clinton Whitehouse. Marc Grossman is chosen by the administration to fill the seat vacated by Richard Holbrooke; another Jewish American Neocon who had been a man of choice for every administration in the last four decades. I suggest you read the article titled ‘Obama’s Neocon’ if you want to know a bit more about the old neocon shoes Mr. Grossman will be filling. As for our media’s usual sanitized version for Mr. Grossman’s background, the following by the neocon circle PR machine, the Washington Post, sums it up well:
In a nearly three-decade career at the State Department, Grossman served as assistant secretary of state for Europe and ambassador to Turkey. His last assignment, before retiring from the foreign service in 2005, was undersecretary for political affairs during the first administration of George W. Bush.

He now is vice chairman of the Cohen Group, which advises international business clients on overseas enterprises. Although the consulting group, headed by former defense secretary William Cohen, has several clients with contracts in South Asia, administration officials said they did not foresee any problem in clearing Grossman for the post.



From the mainstream media reporting similar to the above, ordinary Americans should at least gather this much:

Mr. Grossman had to be a Bush-Cheney administration favorite to be appointed as the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, the State Department’s third-ranking official, in 2001. In 2004, Grossman attained the Foreign Service’s highest rank when the President appointed him to the rank of Career Ambassador.

Grossman works for the sin city’s (Washington DC) lobby industry. Not only that, he actually represents foreign governments, foreign businesses and interests. The Cohen Group represents some of the country’s largest weapons manufacturers, companies that stand to benefit from weapons sales: Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Sikorsky…among others. Their list of controversial and or criminal entities includes companies such as DynCorp International. Through their partnership with DLA Piper, the Cohen group also serves foreign clients such as the Turkish government and business interest groups, Australia’s scandalous AWB, India and UAE.

And here is what many Americans won’t be getting from the US media:
-  The investigative reports on Marc Grossman and his role in planting moles in US nuclear facilities:

An unnamed high-ranking State Department official helps a nuclear smuggling ring connected to Pakistani nuclear scientist A. Q. Khan and Pakistan’s ISI to plant “moles” in US military and academic institutions that handle nuclear technology, according to FBI translator Sibel Edmonds. The State Department official apparently arranges security clearance for some of the moles, enabling them to work in sensitive nuclear research facilities, including the Los Alamos nuclear laboratory in New Mexico, which is responsible for the security of the US nuclear deterrent. The high-ranking State Department official who is not named by Britain’s Sunday Times is said to be Marc Grossman…

 
- John M. Cole, a former FBI Counterintelligence and Counterespionage Manager, has publicly confirmed FBI’s decade long investigation the former State Department Official, Marc Grossman:

John M. Cole, a former FBI Counterintelligence and Counterespionage Manager, has publicly confirmed the FBI’s decade long investigation of the former State Department Official Marc Grossman. Cole worked for 18 years in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. According to Cole, as in over one hundred cases involving Israeli espionage activities directed against the US government, the Grossman case was covered up and buried despite mountains of evidence that was collected.

Here is the public response from John Cole after the publication of The American Conservative magazine’s cover story:

“I read the recent cover story by The American Conservative magazine. I applaud their courage in publishing this significant interview. I am fully aware of the FBI’s decade-long investigation of the High-level State Department Official named in this article, Marc Grossman, which ultimately was buried and covered up. It is long past time to investigate this case and bring about accountability…”

cont... http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/02/16/obama-administration%e2%80%99s-neocon-easter/
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 03:59:30 PM
I know Staw... You said he was meeting with them to keep his enemies closer in a thread where I made the freaking point that he has adopted neoconservative foreign policy.  That's the reason I INCLUDED IT.  ASSUMING YOU'RE REPLYING TO WHAT I'M SAYING IN THIS FUCKING THREAD.

who gives a shit what Darth Cheney says.  Other neocons will continue to say negative shit about Obama too.  That really doesn't change the fact that in this area Obama looks neoconservative and he ran in 08 promising the opposite!!!...

my original post was not a response (i.e. I did not include your quote in my response) to anything you said so why are you assuming I'm replying to you or or anything that you said
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 04:01:32 PM
why are you avoiding the topic lol...
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Fury on October 25, 2011, 04:02:23 PM
LOL straw... Lame excuse... It's a little bigger than seeking out various opinions...  The fact is Obama ran against neoconservative foreign policy and from day one in office pretty much kept up the neoconservative foreign policy making it look more like a 3rd term of Bush...  That's why Kristol can call Obama a "born again neocon" and be happy about saying it.

You voted for change, you definitely didn't get it here.  Now you got guys like blacken and TA that flat out love Obama's new neocon image instead of calling him out for it.



You're looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not that libs are acting like neocons, it's that neocons act like libs. Look throughout history. Who was responsible for over 100,000,000 million deaths last century? That's right, leftists.

At their very core they're nothing more than blood-thirsty warmongers. They've never come across a purge of undesirables they couldn't throw their weight behind.

why are you avoiding the topic lol...

Because he's a weaselly douche bag.
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2011, 04:03:42 PM
why are you avoiding the topic lol...

is this question for me?
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 04:49:43 PM
You're looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not that libs are acting like neocons, it's that neocons act like libs. Look throughout history. Who was responsible for over 100,000,000 million deaths last century? That's right, leftists.

At their very core they're nothing more than blood-thirsty warmongers. They've never come across a purge of undesirables they couldn't throw their weight behind.

Because he's a weaselly douche bag.
well the neoconservatives were originally liberal democrats so you have a point.  I guess they've come home.

Just funny as hell that democrats spent the Bush years screaming bloody murder at neocons and here they are now happy as shit with Bush's 3rd term and the neoconservative foreign policy still in place for the most part.  TA and Blacken get on here like they just can't wait for more war lol... 
Title: Re: Kinda says something when Obama goes to Kristol for foreign policy advice
Post by: Hugo Chavez on October 25, 2011, 04:52:55 PM
is this question for me?
no, I'm actually ok with your red herring.  I'd rather spend several more posts talking about your theory that Obama is talking to neocons to keep his enemies closer and that you didn't say anything about Obama adopting a neoconservitive foreign policy.... Sound like fun lol... not.