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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: berblexer on November 06, 2011, 02:32:04 PM
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The Mongolian Empire ruled half of the world for a while. Defeated and destroyed everything in their path.
Eventually they collapsed yes, but it was due to internal conflicts / civil war.
And what is most shocking is that mongolians were always small in number. Nowadays there are less than 10 million.
So just a few million ruled and conquered half the world.
They used to live in one of the most inhospitable places on earth, survived winters of -30 celsuis and summers of +40.
Could live months on only milk and blood from their horses.
Were expert riders and archers.
Really toughest people there were in my opinion.
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All Kubla Khan.
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Must be that extra chromosome.
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All orange pork and cashew chicken.
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what you think of today as mongolians are different people that were the mongolian tribe that took over what is now called mongolia then went west chasing the tatars, they most likely resembled what are now called tatars which is a mix of tatar and old school mongolian genes. The mongolia of today looks that way because when the mongols went west so did the chinese to fill the space the mongols left behind, that's why they look the way they look
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where are they now? they are very tough but uncivilized
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my point is that most likely most "mongolians" really live in the central asia region in and around uzbekistan
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They used to live in one of the most inhospitable places on earth, survived winters of -30 celsuis and summers of +40.
I'm living in that kind of place right now.
this was an ok movie
At their best, they still failed against russia and poland. Asians are too small to beat big white men 8)
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(http://traditions.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/upload/upfiles/2009-05/08/the_drooping_charm_of_mongolian_women__lianchui003e17b3d146d6cacb03.jpg)
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I'm living in that kind of place right now.
this was an ok movie
At their best, they still failed against russia and poland. Asians are too small to beat big white men 8)
uuh failed, no, they did not take over the culture because really they had no motive to do this and neither did they have the channels of communication to be organized enouhg but what they did was demand tariffs from local "russian" lords (there was no russia back then) until they got a little bit lazy and eventually the guy who ruled moscow got together with his friends and pushed the mongols out (the mongols were actually called tatars, both tatars and mongols were called tatars because the tatars showed up first since they were running away west from the mongols who were genociding them for poisoning their khans father)
little history lesson for ya
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uuh failed, no, they did not take over the culture because really they had no motive to do this and neither did they have the channels of communication to be organized enouhg but what they did was demand tariffs from local "russian" lords (there was no russia back then) until they got a little bit lazy and eventually the guy who ruled moscow got together with his friends and pushed the mongols out (the mongols were actually called tatars, both tatars and mongols were called tatars because the tatars showed up first since they were running away west from the mongols who were genociding them for poisoning their khans father)
little history lesson for ya
well I kind of knew it.. I know that the mongolian empire was historys biggest and greatest one kingdom ever witnessed, I wasn't even trying to be too serious. All glory and respect to the warrior spirit of the ancient mongolians 8)
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well I kind of knew it.. I know that the mongolian empire was historys biggest and greatest one kingdom ever witnessed, I wasn't even trying to be too serious. All glory and respect to the warrior spirit of the ancient mongolians 8)
it was pretty big yeah, also it was just a strangely put together bunch of people. I mean temujin (genghis' name) went from son of tribal chief to homeless tribal chief and then he not so much concquered as seduced people to follow him. The guy just had power oozing out of him, and his love for people convinced them to do what he wanted them to, and until his death it was just his love and his vibe that kept it all together. He didn't inherit anything, he wasn't given anything, he was just the essence of power and his vibe was so strong, hard to believe a person like this existed
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it was pretty big yeah, also it was just a strangely put together bunch of people. I mean temujin (genghis' name) went from son of tribal chief to homeless tribal chief and then he not so much concquered as seduced people to follow him. The guy just had power oozing out of him, and his love for people convinced them to do what he wanted them to, and until his death it was just his love and his vibe that kept it all together. He didn't inherit anything, he wasn't given anything, he was just the essence of power and his vibe was so strong, hard to believe a person like this existed
truly...
he connected people with his spirit. The loyalty which he received was pure and one of a kind.
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Spirit-schmirit. He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord. Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts. I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.
The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified. Not exactly the stiffest resistance. Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.
Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless. The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next. Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died. It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.
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Spirit-schmirit. He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord. Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts. I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.
The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified. Not exactly the stiffest resistance. Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.
Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless. The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next. Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died. It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.
I rest my case
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I rest my case
Temujin was a warlord with a savvy general, meek resistance, and an inability to cement his legacy. Hardly on of history's great spirits.
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Really toughest people there were in my opinion.
could have fooled me since i thought it was pickeys
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Spirit-schmirit. He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord. Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts. I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.
The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified. Not exactly the stiffest resistance. Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.
Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless. The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next. Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died. It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.
you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas
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All hail Taras Bulba !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas
you said it best...
Have you guys seen the animation serie Ginga Nagareboshi Gin, where a dog gathers every wild dog pack in japan together to fight against giant bears? Well in this case temudging was a similar character except he was real.
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I was too hyped about the movie, obviously the real side of the story is what you just said... with a bad breath and terrible hyegine.
inability to cement his legacy, hmm yeah he really had no children of note lol, and he didn't change the racial make up of that part of the earth, he didn't topple european kingdoms at his whim, you know uzbekistan was named after his great great great grandson right
and there's a trailer for a movie which is the first of a trilogy about his life, hmm yeah no legacy lol
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you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas
Ok, that could be, but expanding empires seem to be a bit like sharks after awhile. If they don't keep moving and eating, they're done for. I reckon a lot of warlords recognize that their economy is dependent on continual conquest.
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tapeworm delete the post where you quoted me :P, i deleted the post ;D
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inability to cement his legacy, hmm yeah he really had no children of note lol, and he didn't change the racial make up of that part of the earth, he didn't topple european kingdoms at his whim, you know uzbekistan was named after his great great great grandson right
and there's a trailer for a movie which is the first of a trilogy about his life, hmm yeah no legacy lol
I thought the whole thing devolved into civil war within a generation or two. That's not exactly a sign of good planning. You seem like quite a fanboy. You wouldn't seriously put the Mongols on par with Rome?! OMG! Say it ain't so! :o
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tapeworm delete the post where you quoted me :P, i deleted the post ;D
That's the other guy. 8)
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That's the other guy. 8)
you have a demon inside you, eh ;D
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I would say the Assyrian Empire at their height where tougher when Sennecherib ruled. Heads on sticks outside the walled city, Public flaying and boiling of people, and Military schooling at age 9 where the norm, had control over northern Africa, southern Europe, the entire middle east and parts of Asia. The Babylonians, the Persians and Greeks were tough too. But far more impressive where the Romans then the Mongals 4 centuries of ruling over 25% of the earth population and not only that but controlled about 60% of all the cities metropolis in the world, a feat that no race can claim. Ya the Mongals ruled more in terms of fractions, like maybe 40% of the worlds population, but only for a short period (2 generations), and mostly extremely populated tribal areas(certainly not 40%of the civilized world) and then crumbelled, anyone knows you can't govern over that large of an area without being overthrown or resulting in civil war. Just think had the Romans concentrated their forces and conquested in all direction without thinking of the repercusions that would befall 20-30-40 years down the road, they would have ruled over half the earth if not more, but clearly not a good idea if your concerned over the future stability of the empire.
So I would rank the Romans as number 1, the Assyrians number 2, America number 3 in terms of powerful Empires and maybe Mongals 4th or 5th ;)
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This guy fucked up a Mongolian:
(http://www.vandamme.ru/photos/movies/the_quest/quest49.jpg)
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I thought the whole thing devolved into civil war within a generation or two. That's not exactly a sign of good planning. You seem like quite a fanboy. You wouldn't seriously put the Mongols on par with Rome?! OMG! Say it ain't so! :o
im not really a fanboy, I pay my respects, people said to temujin: we submit to you but in return you must defend our name and elevate our status, and he delivered, he made a whole section of the earth his family. I talk about people as if they were in the room with me, but that's just me. I don't care for rome, I didn't descend from those warring homos. And there was no planning, it makes sense that his empire collapsed after he died because like I said it was his will being executed by his people, not anyone elses. And it's not like the empire collapsed into nothing, ever heard of the golden horde?
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im not really a fanboy, I pay my respects, people said to temujin: we submit to you but in return you must defend our name and elevate our status, and he delivered, he made a whole section of the earth his family. I talk about people as if they were in the room with me, but that's just me. I don't care for rome, I didn't descend from those warring homos. And there was no planning, it makes sense that his empire collapsed after he died because like I said it was his will being executed by his people, not anyone elses. And it's not like the empire collapsed into nothing, ever heard of the golden horde?
Exactly, temujing just gatherred people as family; "OMG, you're cool, brah! Can we follow you please, we will serve you as you wish, you have a heart of gold!", way differend that romans which was systematic brainwashing and slavery.
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im not really a fanboy, I pay my respects, people said to temujin: we submit to you but in return you must defend our name and elevate our status, and he delivered, he made a whole section of the earth his family. I talk about people as if they were in the room with me, but that's just me. I don't care for rome, I didn't descend from those warring homos. And there was no planning, it makes sense that his empire collapsed after he died because like I said it was his will being executed by his people, not anyone elses. And it's not like the empire collapsed into nothing, ever heard of the golden horde?
I really don't know much about the Mongols but I'm such a Greek & Rome fanboy I had to jump in and give you guys a hard time about it. ;)
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This guy fucked up a Mongolian:
(http://www.vandamme.ru/photos/movies/the_quest/quest49.jpg)
That's just a movie, kid.
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"Sisu"
Check out the Finnish folks and the damn Soviets.
Talk about tough S.O.B.s....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
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"Sisu"
Check out the Finnish folks and the damn Soviets.
Talk about tough S.O.B.s....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
I always saw the winter war as a colossal failure on the part of the soviets more than anything else... they had executed all their experienced officers and the new ones were indoctrinated kids who relied on battlefield manuals. Not to take anything from the valour of the finns, but when the soviets finally got their shit together they damn right took half of europe from the nazis.
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;D ;D ;D mark forrest aka lou defni defeated them singlehanded in the 60's.
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Oh no I'm so sorry but it was the Moops. The correct answer is the Moops.
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Oh no I'm so sorry but it was the Moops. The correct answer is the Moops.
Moops?
who are the Moops?
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The Muslims defeated them and stopped them from moving up to Europe to further expand their empire. They did destroy Baghdad though.
Tatars. I thought we only called then that.
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The Muslims defeated them and stopped them from moving up to Europe to further expand their empire. They did destroy Baghdad though.
Tatars. I thought we only called then that.
Battle of Ain Jalut, 1260. The Mamluks (sp) defeated the Mongol army.
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Battle of Ain Jalut, 1260. The Mamluks (sp) defeated the Mongol army.
the Marmadukes?
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the Marmadukes?
:-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk
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now i'm looking up all sorts of shit on wikipedia. not surprised the arabs called them tatars also
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Battle of Ain Jalut, 1260. The Mamluks (sp) defeated the Mongol army.
As I remember (from the top of my head) the gates of Baghdad were opened by a group of traitors(salageka) and they were killed by mongols after they entered (ironically). The city was savagely destroyed. The river changed color after the mongols threw baghdad's books and scripts, then it turned red after all the killing. It was said that most of the science researches/scientists were destroyed.
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mongols don't have to be let in, they should have researched the sceince of protecting themselves
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mongols don't have to be let in, they should have researched the sceince of protecting themselves
See, back then the Muslim army was way better in numbers and superior in weaponry and armor. If they prepared to go to war and had time to assemble the army( they were scattered from east to west) they would've won the first time. All empires had doors to their greatest castlesor walls.
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look up the details of why the mongols lost, you want to say the muslim armies were better because well you are from there or something, in reality the muslims were not an empire, they were tough but small and relied on the mongols making mistakes. If the mongols did not break out into civil war and decided to annihilate every muslim they could find, you and your parents wouldn't be walking around today, true story
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Do you realize how many Muslims lived back then? I think Muslims are inferior at the moment and don't think highly of something just because im part of it. Don't make assumptions.
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look up the details of why the mongols lost, you want to say the muslim armies were better because well you are from there or something, in reality the muslims were not an empire, they were tough but small and relied on the mongols making mistakes. If the mongols did not break out into civil war and decided to annihilate every muslim they could find, you and your parents wouldn't be walking around today, true story
Muslims always won battles cause they stayed close to water and never traveled a great deal of distance in a short period of time, hence their soldiers were alway fresh. Pretty good tactics, if you ask me.
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Do you realize how many Muslims lived back then? I think Muslims are inferior at the moment and don't think highly of something just because im part of it. Don't make assumptions.
then why do you use the word empire, they were still playing sticks and stones with the crusaders, what city in the kingdom of the mongols did they trash? lol, the mongols didn't even have walls around their cities, that's how good they were
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Muslims always won battles cause they stayed close to water and never traveled a great deal of distance in a short period of time, hence their soldiers were alway fresh. Pretty good tactics, if you ask me.
Hence why they were annhilated in Vienna ;)
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then why do you use the word empire, they were still playing sticks and stones with the crusaders, what city in the kingdom of the mongols did they trash? lol, the mongols didn't even have walls around their cities, that's how good they were
They didn't have Walls cause they were uncivilised, had no infrastructure to speak of and most importantly no one had any interest in their lands.
I use the word empire cause that's what you guys call it, we never called it an empire, not in Arabic or English.
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look up what the word khan means, you call someone genghis khan you call what he has an empire, the muslims were called sultans also for a reason
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Having good soldiers does not replace walled city 8)
A walled city is the ultimate fortress and brings the odds to nearly 10-1 while being attacked, The Sun Tzu
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They didn't have Walls cause they were uncivilised, had no infrastructure to speak of and most importantly no one had any interest in their lands.
I use the word empire cause that's what you guys call it, we never called it an empire, not in Arabic or English.
and they didn't have walls because they didn't need to, they hid from no one, again what city did the muslims invade that was owned by the mongols? Baghdad, after they took it back from the mongols who made it their's for a short time lol, learn your history
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Having good soldiers does not replace walled city 8)
A walled city is the ultimate fortress and brings the odds to nearly 10-1 while being attacked, The Sun Tzu
tell that to baghdad in the 12th century
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also, once again a wall does nothing against the mongols, what you think the mongols are gonna do if you don't let them in? They're gonna turn around and go home? lol, no you let them in because then certain death comes much faster, better to be sliced than to starve to death with your dead child's meat in your stomach know what I mean, only reason to have walls to so delay invasion so you can sit and contemplate surrender longer, that's what the chinese did accept they contemplated a little too long and starved on their thinking chairs, trust me they begrudged baghdad their swift deaths
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The walls would've delayed the attack till the armies from Syria and Egypt come for aid.
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no one was aiding them, the army that invaded baghdad was a different one that was defeated later, it was much smaller because the guy who invaded baghdad took most of the army back with him when the khan died to help determine new leadership. He left his favorite general who in the end was not that great after all
And you say no one wanted the mongol's land, all the land they had they won from the previous owners, so someone wanted that land enough to settle in it and rule until the khan's forces came knocking on their door to establish the rules that Temujin set down long ago
the syrians and egyptians were at the time under threat from other forces such as the crusaders. They weren't coming to help anyone, that's like a chicken coming to help his chicken friend when he is being attacked by an alligator. lol
They were lucky that mongolian leadership fell apart, if it didn't the mongol forces would have kept rolling on and then would be stopped at a later date because the khan would have eventually died
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Never heard about the Mongol leadership problems. Thanks for sharing :)
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also, once again a wall does nothing against the mongols, what you think the mongols are gonna do if you don't let them in? They're gonna turn around and go home? lol, no you let them in because then certain death comes much faster, better to be sliced than to starve to death with your dead child's meat in your stomach know what I mean, only reason to have walls to so delay invasion so you can sit and contemplate surrender longer, that's what the chinese did accept they contemplated a little too long and starved on their thinking chairs, trust me they begrudged baghdad their swift deaths
Bro, don't even go there, I am a history buff, I have studied over 400 battles thouroughly and have spent 15 years on every major empire known to man, I can write a book about walled cities and have read battles over walled cities over and over millions of time. No one is good enough to face a wall cities without being at a disadvantage or take heavy loses in terms of ratios in casualties. Has never happened and will never happened. to seize a wall city is ALWAYS a disadvantage. There is only 2 reasons why people would take a wall city, 1 they have enormous numbers that they don't care about casualties or they know that the main Army is not present, any other reason is bad military skills period.
Do you have any idea what it cost to sustain an army camped out in front of a walled city while waiting for their water and food supply to be cut. huh, it could take up to ten years cause while you cut off the main supplies, they always have back up tunnels scattered that are hard to find and are not found for years sometimes. Once they truly cut off all routes they have to wait till their back up food and water to run out, and back up can last up to 7 years. All the while the camped up army is becoming malnourished and lazy.
Bro the way you are talking is delaying the invasion means days or weeks, ah no,no,no.. read your history brother, armies wait years and years, it ain't no short period. The Greeks waited ten years before conquering Troy, The Odyssey and the Iliads,... The Trojan Wars.
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10 years is a logn and slow death lol, makes me feel more sorry for the victims of the mongols
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10 years is a logn and slow death lol, makes me feel more sorry for the victims of the mongols
lol ;D
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:-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk
Settle down "freespirit." Sorry you didn't get the joke.
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That's just a movie, kid.
Wow, nothing gets by you!
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Moops?
who are the Moops?
You'll have to ask the Bubble Boy.
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Wow, nothing gets by you!
Oh brother. Don't feel so insecure, kid. :-\
Settle down "freespirit." Sorry you didn't get the joke.
Your attempt of a joke is somewhat funny for 12 year old kids. I figure that your mental capacity is that of a 12 year old? ::)
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Oh brother. Don't feel so insecure, kid. :-\
Your attempt of a joke is somewhat funny for 12 year old kids. I figure that your mental capacity is that of a 12 year old? ::)
Thanks for the evaluation, getbigs Debbie Downer..... ::)
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Thanks for the evaluation, getbigs Debbie Downer..... ::)
Wow, brutal comeback. I'm impressed. :o
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Wow, brutal comeback. I'm impressed. :o
You have never displayed any type of sense of humor, so why bother...
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You have never displayed any type of sense of humor, so why bother...
You bother, retard. Thanks for taking the bate over and over and over again. :D
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You bother, retard. Thanks for taking the bate over and over and over again. :D
"bait" ::)
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"bait" ::)
Ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. You see: Too easy!!!! :D
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Thanks for the evaluation, getbigs Debbie Downer..... ::)
Watch out now, Showstoppa. This creepy little dweeb has a penchant for stalking anyone who insults him. He's been following me around ever since I kindly pointed out that he was worthless socialist Eurotrash. Recently he's taken to stalking DonkeyKong after he bruised his fragile little ego.
Soon enough he'll be bringing you up in a dozen different threads (none of which you posted in) and building his posting regimen around talking about you.
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Watch out now, Showstoppa. This creepy little dweeb has a penchant for stalking anyone who insults him. He's been following me around ever since I kindly pointed out that he was worthless socialist Eurotrash. Recently he's taken to stalking DonkeyKong after he bruised his fragile little ego.
Soon enough he'll be bringing you up in a dozen different threads (none of which you posted in) and building his posting regimen around talking about you.
I figure that your anus is still bleeding? ???
Get over it, kid, you take yourself too serious.
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I figure that your anus is still bleeding? ???
Get over it, kid, you take yourself too serious.
Oh, the irony!
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Although I am enjoying the conflicts in this thread 8)
you guys ruined a good thread :(
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Although I am enjoying the conflicts in this thread 8)
you guys ruined a good thread :(
Not me. :D
Battle of Ain Jalut, 1260. The Mamluks (sp) defeated the Mongol army.
:-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk
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temujin shakes his head at those who fill his threads with bickering
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temujin shakes his head at those who fill his threads with bickering
Yes, "berzerkfury" wouldn't be allowed amongst the Mongolian warriors because he's just a weak and whiny little kid. :D
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I don’t know why you keep projecting on me, “kid”. Look through your posting history and you’ll see that you do nothing BUT whine. For some reason you think people should actually pay attention to you on here and you throw a temper tantrum anytime someone insults you.
What a sad and insecure crybaby you are. :D
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What a sad and insecure crybaby I am. :'(
Fixed. :D
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Oh no I'm so sorry but it was the Moops. The correct answer is the Moops.
some guy hurt the bubbleboy.