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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Bindare_Dundat on December 17, 2011, 10:00:14 AM
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Watch and learn.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html
IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
Iran remains home to Jewish enclave.
By Barbara Demick
TEHRAN - The Jewish women in the back rows of the synagogue wear long garments in the traditional Iranian style, but instead of chadors, their heads are covered with cheerful, flowered scarves. The boys in their skullcaps, with Hebrew prayer books tucked under their arms, scamper down the aisles to grab the best spots near the lush, turquoise Persian carpet of the altar. This is Friday night, Shabbat - Iranian style, and the synagogue in an affluent neighborhood of North Tehran is filled to capacity with more than 400 worshipers.
It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.
While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 - some here say 35,000 - Jews. The Jewish population is less than half the number that lived here before the Islamic revolution of 1979. But the Jews have tried to compensate for their diminishing numbers by adopting a new religious fervor.
''The funny thing is that before the Islamic revolution, you would see maybe 20 old men in the synagogue,'' whispers Nahit Eliyason, 48, as she climbs over four other women to find one of the few vacant seats. ''Now the place is full. You can barely find a seat.'' Parvis Yashaya, a film producer who heads Tehran's Jewish community, adds: ''We are smaller, but we are stronger in some ways.''
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LOL. Are you really trying to paint Iran as an upstanding, peaceful country?
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LOL. Are you really trying to paint Iran as an upstanding, peaceful country?
I let the people speak for themselves. Are you calling all of them liars?
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I let the people speak for themselves. Are you calling all of them liars?
Yes, two youtube videos clearly speak for all Iranians.
Protip: Paulbots aren't going to endear themselves to any Americans by taking Iran's side.
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Iran is also behind alot of the IED attacks our sildiers suffered in Iraq.
A Federal Judge also just said evidence points to Iran assitance in 9/11
RP is killing his campaign by being so myopic on this.
Like I said - RP is great on most issues, but is his own worst enemy in messaging.
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There’s a difference between supporting Paul’s viewpoints and defending the Mullahs in Iran, which is what the most rabid Paul fans seem to do when anyone dares to question him.
They love arguing that Iran is just misunderstood. That the millions of people in the streets during the last election don't know their own country. ::)
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Yes, two youtube videos clearly speak for all Iranians.
Protip: Paulbots aren't going to endear themselves to any Americans by taking Iran's side.
lol, these are Jews speaking of their own experiences. Who the hell are you to speak for them and about their lives in Iran? Again, are you calling them liars?
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lol, these are Jews speaking of their own experiences. Who the hell are you to say anything negative about their lives in Iran? Again, are you calling them liars?
I'm talking about Iran in general. Are you saying that a youtube video speaks for all of them?
I find it comical that you're defending one of the most totalitarian regimes on the planet because someone had the audacity to disagree with Ron Paul. How do people even make that logical leap?
The millions of Iranians marching in the streets a few years ago were misunderstood. You know Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs better. :)
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Federal judge: Iran shares responsibility for 9/11 terror attacks
2:26 PM 12/16/2011
NEW YORK — In an historic hearing in the federal courthouse in Manhattan on Thursday, U.S. District Court Judge George Daniels said he planned to issue a ruling in the coming days declaring that Iran shares in the responsibility for the 9/11 terror attacks.
“The extensive record submitted to this court, including fact witnesses and expert testimony, is satisfactory to this court,” Judge Daniels said. The court “accepts as true” the various allegations of the plaintiffs and their experts, he declared, and “will issue an order” in the coming days that Iran bears legal responsibility for providing “material support” to the 9/11 plotters and hijackers.
Family members of 9/11 victims who attended the open-court hearing broke into tears. They had nervously sat through a four-hour presentation by attorneys Thomas E. Mellon, Jr., and Timothy B. Fleming, consisting of evidence backing up their claims that Iran had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks and actively assisted the hijackers in planning, preparing, and executing their plan.
“My husband’s name is on that lawsuit,” said Fiona Havlish, the lead plaintiff in the case against Iran. Her spouse, Donald G. Havlish, Jr, perished on the 101st floor of the World Trade Center’s South Tower. “This is about my husband, all our husbands, our loved ones, our sons, our daughters.”
Ellen Saracini, whose husband, Victor Saracini, took off that morning at the controls of United Airlines Flight 175, called it “a historic day” because a U.S. court found that Iran was responsible for the attacks. “When I heard the verdict, I just smiled up to Victor and said, ‘we’re still thinking about you up there.’”
In presenting evidence gathered by the attorneys and their outside investigator, Timothy Fleming revealed tantalizing details of still-sealed videotaped depositions provided by three defectors from Iranian intelligence organizations.
One of those defectors was “physically present” when al-Qaida’s second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, came to Iran in January 2001 for four days of intense closed-door meetings with the top leadership in Iran to discuss the impending attacks.
Another took part in writing up the debriefing reports of Iran’s al-Qaida liaison, Imad Mugniyeh, once he returned to Iran from Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks.
The most dramatic moment of the hearing came when Fleming unveiled the identity of a third defector and described in detail the information he had provided.
The defector, Abdolghassem Mesbahi, had been a confidant of Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Islamic Republic’s founder, and headed up European operations for the new regime’s fledging intelligence service in the early 1980s.
Then, Mesbahi actively took part in developing a set of terrorist contingency plans, called “Shaitan der atash” — meaning “Satan in the Flames,” or “Satan on Fire” — to be used against the United States.
“This contingency plan for unconventional or asymmetrical warfare against the United States was the origin of subsequent terror attacks against the United States, up to and including the terrorist attacks of 9/11.” Fleming said. “Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda joined the Iranian operational planning in the early to mid-1990s.”
Those earlier “unconventional” attacks included the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole.
In 1996, Mesbahi learned hard-liners within the regime intended to kill him. He fled Iran for Europe, where he was granted political refugee status.
Mesbahi soon became a witness in German court proceedings stemming from the assassination of Kurdish dissidents in the Mykonos restaurant in Berlin, and went to ground in a witness protection program. Known only as “Witness C,” his testimony led the German court to name the top leadership of Iran as personally responsible for ordering the assassinations, and caused the European Union to withdraw their ambassadors from Iran for 18 months.
Ever since then, Mesbahi has been a marked man, hunted by the regime’s intelligence services.
Fleming described Mesbahi’s desperate attempts in the weeks before the 9/11 attacks to contact German and U.S. intelligence agencies, after he received a series of coded messages from one of his former intelligence colleagues in Iran.
The first message, which he received on July 23, 2001, told him that the “Shaitan der atash” contingency plan against the United States had been activated.
Mesbahi knew at that point that something awful was about to occur, but he didn’t know which of the many variants of the plan had been selected, Fleming said. In one version of the plan, Iranian-backed terrorists were supposed to attack gas stations around the United States, causing their underground fuel tanks to explode. In another, they were to attack oil refineries.
The second message, which he received on Aug. 13, 2001, told him which plan had been selected. “This was the plan to crash civilian jetliners into major U.S. cities, including New York and Washington,” Fleming said.
The third message, which Mesbahi received on Aug. 27, told him that “Germany was involved” in some way in the plans. As Fleming pointed out, several of the 9/11 hijackers, including the lead pilot, Mohammad Atta, were working out of Hamburg, Germany.
The 9/11 Commission report referred obliquely to Mesbahi and others who had “some fragmentary knowledge” of the impending attacks in its narrative of the events of the summer of 2001. The “system was blinking red” and U.S. intelligence agencies were receiving “frequent fragmentary reports from around the world,” Mellon, one of the 9/11 families’ attorneys, told the court.
Both Mellon and Fleming saluted the bravery of the three defectors who “risked their lives” to help bring out the truth of Iran’s involvement in the 9/11 plot.
In addition to the defectors, Mellon recruited three senior staff members from the 9/11 Commission to describe the importance of Iran’s efforts to facilitate the travel of the 9/11 hijackers to and from Afghanistan.
Janice Kephart, who authored a separate monograph on the terrorists’ travel for the Commission, told the court that travel facilitation was not just a coincidence. It was “like a military operation” and was “crucial military support” for the 9/11 plot, she said.
Fleming and Mellon explained that Iran sent its top terrorist operative, Imad Fayez Mugniyeh, to Saudi Arabia and Lebanon on several trips to accompany eight to ten of the “muscle” hijackers back to Iran.
This was critical, they said, because the hijackers needed to reach al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan for briefings on the 9/11 operation. But because they were traveling on new Saudi passports and either already had or intended to get U.S. visas, the U.S. might refuse them entry if they had Iranian or Afghan entry stamps.
So without Iran’s decision to allow the future hijackers invisible passage to and from Afghanistan — without stamping their passports — the 9/11 attacks might never have occurred.
As a result, Kephart testified, the U.S. State Department approved 22 of the 23 visa applications submitted by the future hijackers and their associates.
“Today, I feel a great sense of relief,” Mellon said after the judge declared his intention to rule in favor of the 9/11 families. “The families have waited a very long time for this day, so I was greatly relieved for the families. Ten years ago, one of the family members asked me, who was responsible?” for the 9/11 attacks.
“Well, today we have found — the judge has found — that the responsible party was Iran,” he added.
Judge Daniels said he expected to issue a final opinion in the case early next week, finding Iran responsible for the worst terror attacks ever perpetrated on U.S. soil.
Daniels is a judge in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/16/federal-judge-iran-shares-responsibility-for-911-terror-attacks/#ixzz1gokBjetz
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again - I dont give a fuck how much flack i get from Paulbots - his campaign messaging on this issue is what is a complete train wreck.
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again - I dont give a fuck how much flack i get from Paulbots - his campaign messaging on this issue is what is a complete train wreck.
It's not even that. You can agree with Ron Paul's viewpoints regarding Iran (which I do) without going to bat for the fucking Mullahs, which Bindare has constantly done.
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It's not even that. You can agree with Ron Paul's viewpoints regarding Iran (which I do) without going to bat for the fucking Mullahs, which Bindare has constantly done.
This is where i am convinced RP does not want to win the primary. I know people are attacking me over this.
Paul negates all the good will he builds up on economic issues with the garbage he spouts on iran.
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It's not even that. You can agree with Ron Paul's viewpoints regarding Iran (which I do) without going to bat for the fucking Mullahs, which Bindare has constantly done.
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man, you twist my words all the time., so I give up. Theres no point in wasting my time chasing you guys as you constantly derail the topic at hand. The first video has much more substance in it than anything you, or those that go to the extremes will every say.
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man, you twist my words all the time., so I give up. Theres no point in wasting my time chasing you guys as you constantly derail the topic at hand. The first video has much more substance in it than anything you will every say.
So you're saying the Iranian government is an upstanding government and protector of minority rights? Ask the Baha'is that.
I don't think I'm twisting your words. I've said that I agree with Paul on the Iranian situation. However, you're not going to find me sitting here defending the Mullahs.
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So you're saying the Iranian government is an upstanding government and protector of minority rights? Ask the Baha'is that.
I don't think I'm twisting your words. I've said that I agree with Paul on the Iranian situation. However, you're not going to find me sitting here defending the Mullahs.
Im asking you for the last time. Are the individuals in the video I presented lying. Yes or no? We can take it from there after you anwser.
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man, you twist my words all the time., so I give up. Theres no point in wasting my time chasing you guys as you constantly derail the topic at hand. The first video has much more substance in it than anything you will every say.
again - its image, PR, and narrative built up. RP is building up a narrative that is simply not palatable to GOP primary voters on this issue and will result in him losing. You can hate me for saying it, but its the truth.
Imagine obama running against Paul to the right and saying - "I will keep you safe like I have killing OBL, Alawaki, and 22 others - he will break bread with Machmud and share Hallal" ? ? ?
Again - its message and approach. RP is simply not trying to win.
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:-[
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again - its image, PR, and narrative built up. RP is building up a narrative that is simply not palatable to GOP primary voters on this issue and will result in him losing. You can hate me for saying it, but its the truth.
Imagine obama running against Paul to the right and saying - "I will keep you safe like I have killing OBL, Alawaki, and 22 others - he will break bread with Machmud and share Hallal" ? ? ?
Again - its message and approach. RP is simply not trying to win.
I like you man but sometime you are so thick headed. You are too busy formulating your next sentence to fully grasp what is being said by others sometimes. That's a major frustration of this board at times. You guys are way too reactionary and nothing good comes out of it. No one is the better for it. I don't learn shit and neither do you or anyone else. I find myself getting sucked into the same game and I don't like it, especially when there are much better ways to learn things.
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Im asking you for the last time. Are the individuals in the video I presented lying. Yes or no? We can take it from there after you anwser.
They might not be - but how can you possibly ignore the 14 protestors hung for simply protesting?
This is one of obama's biggest failures and again - RP fails to step up and plays the same ole buillshit tune. sorry - its the fucking truth.
All RP had to say was VERY FUCKING SIMPLE: "I support the protestors in Iran, Obama failed in supporting in them for freely expressing their view point. if I am president , i will support those proestors against this horrible regime."
Is it really too much to say that?
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I like you man but sometime you are so thick headed. You are too busy formulating your next sentence to fully grasp what is being said by others sometimes. That's a major frustration of this board at times. You guys are way too reactionary and nothing good comes out of it. No one is the better for it. I don't learn shit and neither do you or anyone else. I find myself getting sucked into the same game and I don't like it, especially when there are much better ways to learn things.
I hate to sound like 240 - but image is very important for RP if he wants to won the GOP primary.
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They might not be - but how can you possibly ignore the 14 protestors hung for simply protesting?
I don't ingore it. I didn't say it was the garden of Eden on earth but there is much more going on then most westerners are aware of.
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I don't ingore it. I didn't say it was the garden of Eden on earth but there is much more going on then most westerners are aware of.
There's a lot more going on that you're aware of, too. You've been posting those videos for years now. Not surprising that that's all you've got.
Ask the Baha'is how nice the Iranians are. ::)
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I see a lot of stupid in this thread. The only aggressor in the world right now is the USA. Do you see Iran occupying other countries and blowing up people? No you see America doing it.
Remember when Hitler rose to power in Germany the German public looked the other way because that is what the public usually does. Because most people are followers. The same thing is happening in America.
333, you are outraged about Holder's involvement in FF but don't realize that the whole government is corrupt from Republican to Democrat. They are the scum of the earth. The best thing probably for the Earth is if it was hit by a massive comet so all the rot can be removed. I want to see more beautiful animals roaming the planet and less fucking scheming humans.
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This is true... This does go to show that Iran isn't anti-Semitic (obviously, considering Mohammed was a Semite, lol) or anti-Jewish. They are anti-Zionist, or at least that's how they view themselves. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book" according to the Quran and Islam. They are to be protected, however, they are not allowed to serve in the military and must pay a special tax.
Needless to say, I do disagree with Iran's hard stance against Israel. But when it all comes down to it, it is not in the US's interest to meddle with Israeli-Iranian relations or the internal affairs of the Muslim world.
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I see a lot of stupid in this thread. The only aggressor in the world right now is the USA. Do you see Iran occupying other countries and blowing up people? No you see America doing it.
Remember when Hitler rose to power in Germany the German public looked the other way because that is what the public usually does. Because most people are followers. The same thing is happening in America.
333, you are outraged about Holder's involvement in FF but don't realize that the whole government is corrupt from Republican to Democrat. They are the scum of the earth. The best thing probably for the Earth is if it was hit by a massive comet so all the rot can be removed. I want to see more beautiful animals roaming the planet and less fucking scheming humans.
Speaking solely about Iran - when they hung the 14 protestors and we said nothing at all - I knew something was really fucked.
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This is true... This does go to show that Iran isn't anti-Semitic (obviously, considering Mohammed was a Semite, lol) or anti-Jewish. They are anti-Zionist, or at least that's how they view themselves. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book" according to the Quran and Islam. They are to be protected, however, they are not allowed to serve in the military and must pay a special tax.
Needless to say, I do disagree with Iran's hard stance against Israel. But when it all comes down to it, it is not in the US's interest to meddle with Israeli-Iranian relations or the internal affairs of the Muslim world.
Actually, they're to be second-class citizens. They are to wear different clothing, won't be allowed to vote, won't be allowed to serve in the military and they can only hold certain jobs. Cute that you try to paint them as equals. You've clearly never read the Koran or Hadith.
Ask the Coptic Christians, the true Egyptians, and the dozens of them that were killed last month just how "equal" they are.
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Actually, they're to be second-class citizens. They are to wear different clothing, won't be allowed to vote, won't be allowed to serve in the military and they can only hold certain jobs. Cute that you try to paint them as equals. You've clearly never read the Koran or Hadith.
Ask the Coptic Christians, the true Egyptians, and the dozens of them that were killed last month just how "equal" they are.
Where did I try to paint them as equals? I explicitly mentioned that they are to be discriminated against according to the Quran.
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Where did I try to paint them as equals? I explicitly mentioned that they are to be discriminated against according to the Quran.
You argued that they're "to be protected" when in reality they're to be exploited and know their place below the Muslims.
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There's a lot more going on that you're aware of, too. You've been posting those videos for years now. Not surprising that that's all you've got.
Ask the Baha'is how nice the Iranians are. ::)
lol, c'mon man.
Can you stop it with the exaggerations please? I posted some videos and expressed my opinions on this subject in the past but it pales in comparison to what I contribute most of the time on here. For you to say that this is all I got is ridiculous considering the amount of time I choose to spend on it is hardly measurable overall.
All I'm saying is that the answer is somewhere in the middle of your position and mine. Can you explain to me how there can be 25 synagogues in the capital of Iran, or that some of the best Jewish hospitals are in that region, or that theres a seat for Jews in te Iranian Parliament, or te second highest Jewish population in that region is in Iran, if it's all as bad as the media in west makes it out to be? Again, this doesn't excuse the fuck ups in that country, so don't suggest that I am giving them a free pass but could you offer an explanation to these things? I would bet 99% of Americans didn't even know these things to exist and if they did, do you think it would change their pre conceived notions about the people of Iran?
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You argued that they're "to be protected" when in reality they're to be exploited and know their place below the Muslims.
They are to be protected. Being protected is different than being equal. Not my fault you're illiterate and not capable of telling the two apart.
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They are to be protected. Being protected is different than being equal. Not my fault you're illiterate and not capable of telling the two apart.
They're not protected, though. In-fact, the persecutions are getting worse. Not my fault that you're a moron who likes to think he knows what he's talking about while at the same time not being able to differentiate between a Persian and an Arab.
lol, c'mon man.
Can you stop it with the exaggerations please? I posted some videos and expressed my opinions on this subject in the past but it pales in comparison to what I contribute most of the time on here. For you to say that this is all I got is ridiculous considering the amount of time I choose to spend on it is hardly measurable overall.
All I'm saying is that the answer is somewhere in the middle of your position and mine. Can you explain to me how there can be 25 synagogues in the capital of Iran, or that some of the best Jewish hospitals are in that region, or that theres a seat for Jews in te Iranian Parliament, or te second highest Jewish population in that region is in Iran, if it's all as bad as the media in west makes it out to be? Again, this doesn't excuse the fuck ups in that country, so don't suggest that I am giving them a free pass but could you offer an explanation to these things? I would bet 99% of Americans didn't even know these things to exist and if they did, do you think it would change their pre conceived notions about the people of Iran?
What pre-conceived notions about the people of Iran? Most Americans have no problems with the Iranian people. Their problem lies with the government which, surprise, surprise, most Iranians seem to hate, too.
For all the hoopla about the "vilification" of Iran by the MSM, you would think the MSM would have reported on the recent law stating the women need to be accompanied by a male family member when skiing over there now. You would think they'd jump all over that since, after all, they're out to get poor, misunderstood Iran.
http://bikyamasr.com/48231/iranian-mandate-forbids-females-to-ski-without-male-accompaniment/
If you look at where Iran was a few decades ago to where they are now you get one sad, sad picture.
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Guys can we keep it civil for longer than two posts? That means all of us. This is an interesting topic and we can learn something from each other but the insults just implode the thread.
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Guys can we keep it civil for longer than two posts? That means all of us. This is an interesting topic and we can learn something from each other but the insults just implode the thread.
At its most basic - back to RP - he needs to break in to the GOP primary voter not happy with Newt/Romney correct?
If RP wants to tap these people - not saying he has to be pro-war because that would be a joke and ridiculous. however - if he attacked the Iranian regime for the abuses against protestors and Obama's failures to support those protestoras and speak out forcefully against what was done he would have kept his anti-war cred- but also ingratiated himself with more gop primary voters who first and foremost hate obamna.
See - this is not that fucking hard. i really wonder if anyone gives him advise at all.
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They're not protected, though. In-fact, the persecutions are getting worse. Not my fault that you're a moron who likes to think he knows what he's talking about while at the same time not being able to differentiate between a Persian and an Arab.
What pre-conceived notions about the people of Iran? Most Americans have no problems with the Iranian people. Their problem lies with the government which, surprise, surprise, most Iranians seem to hate, too.
For all the hoopla about the "vilification" of Iran by the MSM, you would think the MSM would have reported on the recent law stating the women need to be accompanied by a male family member when skiing over there now. You would think they'd jump all over that since, after all, they're out to get poor, misunderstood Iran.
http://bikyamasr.com/48231/iranian-mandate-forbids-females-to-ski-without-male-accompaniment/
If you look at where Iran was a few decades ago to where they are now you get one sad, sad picture.
I asked you some direct questions but you posted something else unrealted to what was asked. If you don't want to answer thats fine, i won't pursue that matter any further.
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I asked you some direct questions but you posted something else unrealted to what was asked. If you don't want to answer thats fine, i won't pursue that matter any further.
I answered your question. You said Americans have pre-conceived notions about the people of Iran when I disagree with that. I said Americans, for the most part, are very sympathetic to the plight of the Iranian people. Were you sleeping when it was American citizens who set-up the networks for them to get their videos and stories out during the election protests? It was Americans who were running the proxies for them. It was Americans teaching them how to avoid detection from the government internet monitors. It was Americans showing them how to set-up their own cell phone networks. It was American companies like Google and Youtube that set-up specific outlets for the Iranian people to upload their information as their networks were shut down.
American's problem lies with Iran's GOVERNMENT, not its people.
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American's problem lies with Iran's GOVERNMENT, not its people.
As it is however, American government led sanctions affect the common person in Iran, bombs dont always fall on the bad guys. Now we return to the fact thats been stressed for a long time, that its easy to see why foriegn policy as it is now, creates a disdain and then a growing group of fanatics out of the people it effects.
I was hoping you could fill me in on the Jewish situation there and the questions I brought up specifically relating to that.
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They're not protected, though. In-fact, the persecutions are getting worse. Not my fault that you're a moron who likes to think he knows what he's talking about while at the same time not being able to differentiate between a Persian and an Arab.
Hahahaha! I seriously think I'm going to show this to my Arab, Indian, and Persian friends. We'll have a good laugh over this. You take one instance where I wrote down "inflame Arab opinion" (which an invasion of Iran actually WOULD do) instead of "inflame Muslim opinion" and now I can't differentiate between Arabs and Persians? ::)
They absolutely are protected under the Quran, though they are not equal. If you don't believe me, then I suggest you read the Quran for yourself (which I have done) or talk to a serious Muslim scholar. I've said as much and again, you try to twist my words around just so you can call me stupid. ::) You've completely discredited yourself by doing this. Were you bullied a little too much in high school for being a dork? Is that the source of your repressed anger?
The funniest part in all of this is that now you're painting me as some kind of Muslim apologist. If only you knew some of the heated exchanges I've had with my Muslim friends over Islam... My only point was that:
1) Iran doesn't seek to kill Jews or Christians.
2) Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" who are to be protected (NOT treated equally) according to the Quran. This, btw, is in opposition to pagans, infidels, etc. who basically are given no rights in the Quran.
3) Freaking out about Iran nuking Israel is a little out there when you scratch beneath the war propaganda.
4) It is not in the US's interests to meddle in Iran-Israel relations and the internal affairs of the Muslim world.
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This is what Fury is getting his panties in a wad over:
So we continue this gay low-level proxy war on Iran and how do we benefit exactly? We continue to inflame Arab opinion and we continue to meet the Quranic predicate for Jihad. That is a high price to pay for cheaper gasoline.
Arab opinion? Most Arabs hate Iran as they're PERSIAN and Shia, to boot.
I know. I misspoke, I should have said "Muslim," since the problem is not only with Arabs, but with Persians, Turks, Berbers, and many other ethnic/cultural groups that are predominantly Muslim.
He seems to have a really bad habit of reading into things and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.
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This is what Fury is getting his panties in a wad over:
He seems to have a really bad habit of reading into things and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.
Don't cry. I've noticed it consistently happens by people who claim to know what they're talking about. If you didn't know that the Arabs and Persians are two different peoples and that they HATE each other then there's no reason to bother reading anything else you say.
The fact that Saudi Arabia is constantly left out of these arguments and diatribes you make says it all. You're completely and utterly clueless.
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Don't cry. I've noticed it consistently happens by people who claim to know what they're talking about. If you didn't know that the Arabs and Persians are two different peoples and that they HATE each other then there's no reason to bother reading anything else you say.
But see, the problem is that I do know the difference between Arabs and Persians. First of all, I never did confuse the two. Secondly, what I said was technically correct (bombing Iran would inflame the opinion of Arab Muslims). Thirdly, I did mean to say of Muslim opinion, not of Arab opinion as I clearly stated. Fourthly, I live in the largest hub of Muslims in the United States - Metro Detroit. To try to claim that I don't know the difference between Persians, Arabs, Indians, Turks, etc. when I live, work, and study with these people is patently absurd.
And now you're engaging in a fallacy of composition in order to try to nail me on something that I haven't done. More absurdity.
The fact that Saudi Arabia is constantly left out of these arguments and diatribes you make says it all. You're completely and utterly clueless.
See, the thing is that I don't leave them out. I've consistently mentioned US support for dictatorships in the Muslim world as a major reason why Islamic terrorists attack us. And by that, I mainly mean Saudi Arabia, but also other dictatorships we have supported in the past (e.g. Musharraf, Mubarak, and Qaddafi).
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I can't read this crap anymore... ::) 3333 now so anti-Paul that he's calling the people on this board paulbots? WTF? Fuck you.
Federal judges saying Iran was involved in the 9/11 attacks? ::)
idiots calling a Jew on assignment for National Geographic and what he finds totally irrelavant and meaningless.
reading through this thread, I feel like I stepped in a fresh cow patty.
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Whatever ugo - believe whatever you want. Just don't play the victim card when I am proven right. Ron paul is not trying to win, what he does is plays to his hard core base of people who would die for him. That is fine, but it is not a winning stretdgy no matter how much want. Again _ this is the republican primary. You can whine and cry and meltdown all you like _ if rp wants to win _ he needs to stop this bs asap.
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I can't read this crap anymore... ::) 3333 now so anti-Paul that he's calling the people on this board paulbots? WTF? Fuck you.
Federal judges saying Iran was involved in the 9/11 attacks? ::)
idiots calling a Jew on assignment for National Geographic and what he finds totally irrelavant and meaningless.[/b]
reading through this thread, I feel like I stepped in a fresh cow patty.
This is what really astounds me. You can hear the excitement and awe in the reporters voice because he too was no doubt brainwashed his whole life. This was really refreshing and to see him actually wake up to some truths was extremely interesting to see. Maybe they had guns pointed at their heads the whole time though, so who knows? ::)
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I see a lot of stupid in this thread. The only aggressor in the world right now is the USA. Do you see Iran occupying other countries and blowing up people? No you see America doing it.
Remember when Hitler rose to power in Germany the German public looked the other way because that is what the public usually does. Because most people are followers. The same thing is happening in America.
333, you are outraged about Holder's involvement in FF but don't realize that the whole government is corrupt from Republican to Democrat. They are the scum of the earth. The best thing probably for the Earth is if it was hit by a massive comet so all the rot can be removed. I want to see more beautiful animals roaming the planet and less fucking scheming humans.
Are you fucking serious...I think the moderators need to establish a history and current events test before anybody can post here.
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Are you fucking serious...I think the moderators need to establish a history and current events test before anybody can post here.
The reality is that America is a complete mess and you are delusional in thinking that America can still dictate to other countries. Whatever has been going on in Iran has been for thousands of years. But now in 2011/12 it is time for USA to ramp up against this country. What a coincidence it is after Iraq and Afghanistan. And oh yeah the reason is it's because of the war on terror. HH6 - you deserve everything coming to you for your gullibility, naivety, stupidity and ignorance.
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Are you fucking serious...I think the moderators need to establish a history and current events test before anybody can post here.
I think we should limit the posting of neoconservative psychopaths hellbent on ruling the world and destroying anything in their way... ;D
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This is where i am convinced RP does not want to win the primary. I know people are attacking me over this.
Paul negates all the good will he builds up on economic issues with the garbage he spouts on iran.
Who cares about Iran we have our own problems
Let Israel take care of them
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again - its image, PR, and narrative built up. RP is building up a narrative that is simply not palatable to GOP primary voters on this issue and will result in him losing. You can hate me for saying it, but its the truth.
Imagine obama running against Paul to the right and saying - "I will keep you safe like I have killing OBL, Alawaki, and 22 others - he will break bread with Machmud and share Hallal" ? ? ?
Again - its message and approach. RP is simply not trying to win.
Its perfect that way Obama will lose all the lib voters and the repub voters surely wont vote Obama
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The reality is that America is a complete mess and you are delusional in thinking that America can still dictate to other countries. Whatever has been going on in Iran has been for thousands of years. But now in 2011/12 it is time for USA to ramp up against this country. What a coincidence it is after Iraq and Afghanistan. And oh yeah the reason is it's because of the war on terror. HH6 - you deserve everything coming to you for your gullibility, naivety, stupidity and ignorance.
Waaaaaaaaaaa.........its bad mean America causing all of this, things would be all rainbows and sunshine if we'd just all go away. Go fuck yourself idiot.
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Waaaaaaaaaaa.........its bad mean America causing all of this, things would be all rainbows and sunshine if we'd just all go away. Go fuck yourself idiot.
LOL
I think I'm going to copy and paste this response and just use it over and over again when someone makes a stupid argument on here.
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I used to love to debate here but this election is waaaay to important. I don't have the patience for the RP fans or America haters who think its all going to get better if we retreat. That ship sailed. If we were Ireland or Norway...have at it but we're not. The world has gone nuts and the Iranians aren't the Russians.....there are to many variables to allow them to have nukes. Its fun watching a bunch of folks here who've never sat in a classified brief on Iran and its gov pontificate on who's in charge or what their intentions are. If you folks can't figure out where the power is in Iran, thats good enough not to allow them to have nukes. The damm planet is falling apart..Tim Tebow is winning football games....things have gone nuts.
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I used to love to debate here but this election is waaaay to important. I don't have the patience for the RP fans or America haters who think its all going to get better if we retreat. That ship sailed. If we were Ireland or Norway...have at it but we're not. The world has gone nuts and the Iranians aren't the Russians.....there are to many variables to allow them to have nukes. Its fun watching a bunch of folks here who've never sat in a classified brief on Iran and its gov pontificate on who's in charge or what their intentions are. If you folks can't figure out where the power is in Iran, thats good enough not to allow them to have nukes. The damm planet is falling apart..Tim Tebow is winning football games....things have gone nuts.
They will have nukes unless they are conquered and occupied. Are you willing to give your life for that?
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Whatever ugo - believe whatever you want. Just don't play the victim card when I am proven right. Ron paul is not trying to win, what he does is plays to his hard core base of people who would die for him. That is fine, but it is not a winning stretdgy no matter how much want. Again _ this is the republican primary. You can whine and cry and meltdown all you like _ if rp wants to win _ he needs to stop this bs asap.
Yeah he should sell out on his beliefs to get the nomination ::)
You really hate freedom don't you..?
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Yeah he should sell out on his beliefs to get the nomination ::)
You really hate freedom don't you..?
Anything to get OB out, it doesn't matter. :D
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Anything to get OB out, it doesn't matter. :D
Correct.
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I used to love to debate here but this election is waaaay to important. I don't have the patience for the RP fans or America haters who think its all going to get better if we retreat. That ship sailed. If we were Ireland or Norway...have at it but we're not. The world has gone nuts and the Iranians aren't the Russians.....there are to many variables to allow them to have nukes. Its fun watching a bunch of folks here who've never sat in a classified brief on Iran and its gov pontificate on who's in charge or what their intentions are. If you folks can't figure out where the power is in Iran, thats good enough not to allow them to have nukes. The damm planet is falling apart..Tim Tebow is winning football games....things have gone nuts.
Lol sorry man but you sound like that crazy general from the movie Mars Attacks.
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I used to love to debate here but this election is waaaay to important. I don't have the patience for the RP fans or America haters who think its all going to get better if we retreat. That ship sailed. If we were Ireland or Norway...have at it but we're not. The world has gone nuts and the Iranians aren't the Russians.....there are to many variables to allow them to have nukes. Its fun watching a bunch of folks here who've never sat in a classified brief on Iran and its gov pontificate on who's in charge or what their intentions are. If you folks can't figure out where the power is in Iran, thats good enough not to allow them to have nukes. The damm planet is falling apart..Tim Tebow is winning football games....things have gone nuts.
So want you want is a full scale attack on Iran?
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They will have nukes unless they are conquered and occupied. Are you willing to give your life for that?
bump
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I used to love to debate here but this election is waaaay to important. I don't have the patience for the RP fans or America haters who think its all going to get better if we retreat. That ship sailed. If we were Ireland or Norway...have at it but we're not. The world has gone nuts and the Iranians aren't the Russians.....there are to many variables to allow them to have nukes. Its fun watching a bunch of folks here who've never sat in a classified brief on Iran and its gov pontificate on who's in charge or what their intentions are. If you folks can't figure out where the power is in Iran, thats good enough not to allow them to have nukes. The damm planet is falling apart..Tim Tebow is winning football games....things have gone nuts.
You always speak the truth mang. :)
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So want you want is a full scale attack on Iran?
Um no dumbass did I say that. There is alot of wierd crap happening over there right now...I think the IDF and other folks are doing what needs to be done.
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Um no dumbass did I say that. There is alot of wierd crap happening over there right now...I think the IDF and other folks are doing what needs to be done.
So you like OB foreign policy then? :D
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They will have nukes unless they are conquered and occupied. Are you willing to give your life for that?
bump