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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on December 23, 2011, 02:11:24 AM
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This is a bit assbackwards... seems like there should have been some public debate about all this crap before the fact. About as unconstitutional as it gets... I know there are a few more threads about this but here you go, one more.
Did Congress Just Endorse Rendition for Americans?
A defense spending bill that passed both houses of Congress overwhelmingly and is set to be signed by President Barack Obama as early as this week could make it easier for the government to transfer American terrorist suspects to foreign regimes and security forces.
The National Defense Authorization Act (PDF) contains a section that says the president has the power to transfer suspected members and supporters of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or "associated" groups "to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity."
That means if the president determines you're a member or supporter of Al Qaeda or "associated forces," he could order you to be handed over to the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Yemenis ("any other foreign country"), any of their respective security forces, or even the United Nations ("any other foreign entity"). (You can read the relevant section of the law in the document viewer at the end of this article; look for the highlighted annotations.)
Many legal experts consider the NDAA a congressional codification of war powers the Bush and Obama administrations have claimed they already possess. David Glazier, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and expert on the law of war, argues that Obama already had the power to transfer suspected Al Qaeda members (even Americans) to foreign custody, and the NDAA simply endorses that view. "If the president could lawfully transfer a German prisoner of war to a foreign country, then in theory he could do the same thing with an American prisoner of war," Glazier explains.
But turning the Bush and Obama administrations' interpretations of their war powers into an actual law is "no small thing," as Benjamin Wittes, a legal expert at the Brookings Institution, explains. Under this law, the government has far-reaching powers to detain and try terrorist suspects inside or outside the civilian justice system—or, if necessary, to transfer them to the custody of foreign powers—and it will serve as a signal to judges. "When you put all that in a statute, it becomes a much more permanent fixture of the US justice system," says Daphne Eviatar, a lawyer with Human Rights First. "It's not necessarily changing the authority the US government has today, but it's institutionalizing it."
Eviatar adds that there are "a whole lot of scenarios" where the government might want to transfer a suspected terrorist—even a US citizen—to foreign custody. For example, the administration might not want to go through the political mess of determining whether to send a suspect to Gitmo, try him in a military commission, or use the civilian system. The administration might also want to avoid the mandatory habeas corpus review that would come if the US held the suspect itself. In such a case, transferring the suspect to a foreign security force might present an appealing option.
cont... http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/did-congress-just-endorse-rendition-americans
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They did it because obama demanded it.
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I know this is so fucking cliche at this point but still perfect to the point. We played this clip to death under Bush, odd that it needs played even more so under Obama...
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I know this is so fucking cliche at this point but still perfect to the point. We played this clip to death under Bush, odd that it needs played even more so under Obama...
Did you see the clip of senator levin on this?
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They did it because obama demanded it.
don't stop there. This is the shit that Obama said for months he would veto and he lied his ass off once again. I can't fathom how anyone who voted for him could possibly bring themselves to do so again in good conscience.
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Did you see the clip of senator levin on this?
no?
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no?
Here it is. Obama demanded this and only threatened to veto it since it did not have enough power for him.
And as for your question = Obamabots dont care! He could rape their mother shoot the dog and molest altar boys and they would still support him.
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Here it is. Obama demanded this and only threatened to veto it since it did not have enough power for him.
And as for your question = Obamabots dont care! He could rape their mother shoot the dog and molest altar boys and they would still support him.
fucking awesome. I know Cenk gets a lot of shit from the right but you gotta admit, he's actually trying to be honest here which is a fucking hell of a lot more than could be said of the MSM.
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One of his best speeches ever.
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fucking awesome. I know Cenk gets a lot of shit from the right but you gotta admit, he's actually trying to be honest here which is a fucking hell of a lot more than could be said of the MSM.
Absolutely. I was cheering Cenk on in that clip.
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You can only be "renditioned" if you're wanted for some crime in a foreign country. But this is still disturbing.
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LOL at Cenk being appalled by obamas "lack of respect for the constitution"
WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MANDATE IN OBAMA CARE?
you see you morons, if you allow ppl to go against the constitution b/c you think its for the "greater good"
what happens when you dont agree with the "greater good"
he makes good points but he is just highlighting his idiocy
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Here it is. Obama demanded this and only threatened to veto it since it did not have enough power for him.
And as for your question = Obamabots dont care! He could rape their mother shoot the dog and molest altar boys and they would still support him.
You know its getting bad when Cenk is acting like this.
Isnt Cenk Benny's favorite news outlet?
Wonder what he thinks of this?
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So it's a done deal? He signed it?
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So it's a done deal? He signed it?
he's going to sign it along with issuing a signing statement
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You can only be "renditioned" if you're wanted for some crime in a foreign country. But this is still disturbing.
Call it whatever you want, if the government determines you're a threat this totally opens it up for them to just black bag your ass in the middle of the night and goodbye... Sure in the next few years they'll only use this once or twice on people nobody gives a shit about but in 10 to 20 years it could easily be used on some normal American who opposed the government on foreign actions enough to get noticed. One day you're speaking out against a war, the next your ass is bagged and tagged in gitmo.
This is as unconstitutional as it gets... Obama is 10 times worse than Bush IMO and I fucking hated Bush with a passion.
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he's going to sign it along with issuing a signing statement
better be one hell of a signing statement otherwise he's fucking toast for a second term.
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better be one hell of a signing statement otherwise he's fucking toast for a second term.
I'm curious to see it myself but I doubt this issue will sink his 2nd term
remember this thing had overwhelming support by Repubs and I'm sure Mitt will endorse it with the majority of his party
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I'm curious to see it myself but I doubt this issue will sink his 2nd term
remember this thing had overwhelming support by Repubs and I'm sure Mitt will endorse it with the majority of his party
Are you fucking kidding, you already have the left pissed as hell at the backstabbing, if you add on Obama ripping up the constitution, it's fucking over for him, it better be a sweet signing statement that has us all talking.
And LOL at your telling me to remember what support this had in congress... A fucking snake turd has more respect from Americans than anything congress does rep or dem. Check the polls for congress... their approval is a little below the taste of dog shit. Fucking fact brother.
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I'm curious to see it myself but I doubt this issue will sink his 2nd term
remember this thing had overwhelming support by Repubs and I'm sure Mitt will endorse it with the majority of his party
and? That makes it ok for obama's treason?
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Are you fucking kidding, you already have the left pissed as hell at the backstabbing, if you add on Obama ripping up the constitution, it's fucking over for him, it better be a sweet signing statement that has us all talking.
And LOL at your telling me to remember what support this had in congress... A fucking snake turd has more respect from Americans than anything congress does rep or dem. Check the polls for congress... their approval is a little below the taste of dog shit. Fucking fact brother.
I'm not fucking kidding
you think the left is suddenly going to vote for RP or Mitt ?
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and? That makes it ok for obama's treason?
obama's treason?
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I'm not fucking kidding
you think the left is suddenly going to vote for RP or Mitt ?
What the hell is the point of an obama second term? Cenk was dead right. What the hell is the damn point ?
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I'm not fucking kidding
you think the left is suddenly going to vote for RP or Mitt ?
I think a significant percent of the left will not vote at all and that's going to be the same thing when it's over. If Paul wins the primary, he'll be a sure bet as 5 to 10 percent of the left WILL, I guarantee, bail on Obama for Paul. Seriously, Obama has fucking pissed a lot of people off on the left.... If he doesn't make magic with this signing statement, this could be his political tombstone.
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What the hell is the point of an obama second term? Cenk was dead right. What the hell is the damn point ?
I can't believe you have to ask this question
he needs to finish collapsing the nation
wasn't that the entire point of his presidency?
wasn't that the CT his father cooked up for him 40 years ago?
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I think a significant percent of the left will not vote at all and that's going to be the same thing when it's over. If Paul wins, he'll be a sure bet as 5 to 10 percent of the left WILL I guarantee bail on Obama for Paul. Seriously, Obama has fucking pissed a lot of people off on the left.... If he doesn't make magic with this signing statement, this could be his political tombstone.
I think there is more of a chance of that happening on the right
look at how many front runners we've had already
the right can't stand any of their options
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I'm not fucking kidding
you think the left is suddenly going to vote for RP or Mitt ?
It's a well-known fact that the left-wing base is an incredibly weak voting bloc. If it rains, they don't show up at the polls. Don't you think that a President who has gone way off track won't receive much enthusiasm, and therefore much votes, from the base?
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I can't believe you have to ask this question
he needs to finish collapsing the nation
wasn't that the entire point of his presidency?
wasn't that the CT his father cooked up for him 40 years ago?
I'm talking from the viewpoint of a liberal demo progressive like yourself. Why vote for him again?
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I think there is more of a chance of that happening on the right
look at how many front runners we've had already
the right can't stand any of their options
You clearly don't understand... 90% of "the right" wants to see Obama out of office and will do anything to achieve that. They're just having trouble picking a candidate right now. But once that process is done, Obama will be in big trouble.
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It's a well-known fact that the left-wing base is an incredibly weak voting bloc. If it rains, they don't show up at the polls. Don't you think that a President who has gone way off track won't receive much enthusiasm, and therefore much votes, from the base?
I've never heard that well known fact before
I have heard the well known fact that the more people who turn out to vote the more likely Dems are to win which is why Repubs love voter suppression tactics
I see no need to speculate about any of this stuff until at least the point where we know who the Repub candidate will be (and if RP will run as an independent)
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I've never heard that well known fact before
I have heard the well known fact that the more people who turn out to vote the more likely Dems are to win which is why Repubs love voter suppression tactics
I see no need to speculate about any of this stuff until at least the point where we know who the Repub candidate will be (and if RP will run as an independent)
The left is strongest when someone is promising them free shit from other tax payers - then they come out like an army.
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I think there is more of a chance of that happening on the right
look at how many front runners we've had already
the right can't stand any of their options
Dude, there is fucking zero chance of that happening on the right. The single one thing they are fucking unified on is getting rid of Obama. If fucking cow turd wins the primary, republicans are going to show up in full force to vote for the cow turd.
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You clearly don't understand... 90% of "the right" wants to see Obama out of office and will do anything to achieve that. They're just having trouble picking a candidate right now. But once that process is done, Obama will be in big trouble.
I would expect 100% of the right would want him out of office
If you're right I guess it will be a cake walk for Repubs
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Dude, there is fucking zero chance of that happening on the right. The single one thing they are fucking unified on is getting rid of Obama. If fucking cow turd wins the primary, republicans are going to show up in full force to vote for the cow turd.
time will tell
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Dude, there is fucking zero chance of that happening on the right. The single one thing they are fucking unified on is getting rid of Obama. If fucking cow turd wins the primary, republicans are going to show up in full force to vote for the cow turd.
I dont care is Mumiia Abu Jamal / Madoff were the GOP ticket - you would have to chain me tp the wall and shoot me 10 times over to keep me from voting out that traitor.
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I've never heard that well known fact before
I have heard the well known fact that the more people who turn out to vote the more likely Dems are to win which is why Repubs love voter suppression tactics
I see no need to speculate about any of this stuff until at least the point where we know who the Repub candidate will be (and if RP will run as an independent)
Taught in basically every introductory polisci course. And it really is common knowledge.
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The one thing that could trip up the Republicans on their way to defeating Obama would be a third party Ron Paul run.
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Taught in basically every introductory polisci course. And it really is common knowledge.
holy schnikey - if a CNN weatherman is quoting the illustrious Dr. Gomez it must be a well known fact
I guess Obama better pray there is no bad weather in the East Coast next November
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I'm not fucking kidding
you think the left is suddenly going to vote for RP or Mitt ?
I know a few anti-war liberals who love ron paul. People who wore ron paul shit in 2008 then settled for obama cause he wasn't the crazy old man singing "bomb bom bom iran"
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holy schnikey - if a CNN weatherman is quoting the illustrious Dr. Gomez it must be a well known fact
I guess Obama better pray there is no bad weather in the East Coast next November
They talk about this shit every fucking major election night... Where the hell have you been Straw? I don't know why you guys are talking about this but yes, weather can play a big part in turnout.
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I know a few anti-war liberals who love ron paul. People who wore ron paul shit in 2008 then settled for obama cause he wasn't the crazy old man singing "bomb bom bom iran"
Bingo, and there's a lot of them.