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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on March 02, 2012, 03:13:07 PM
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March 2, 2012
Soldiers Are Said to Face Punishment in Koran Burnings
By GRAHAM BOWLEY and ALISSA J. RUBIN
KABUL, Afghanistan — Five American service members and an Afghan-American linguist may face disciplinary action in the burning of Korans at a NATO base, an event a week ago that plunged Afghanistan into days of violent protests, according to the preliminary conclusions of a joint military investigation.
“All six will be referred to the proper U.S. authorities for further action,” said an official familiar with the joint Afghan-American investigation into the Koran burnings, who was not authorized to speak about it publicly.
Significantly, the five service members include military “leaders,” according to the report. While it was unclear whether that meant any senior officers would be held to account, it was taken as a sign here that the investigation was focusing more on decision-making along the chain of command rather than simply focusing on soldiers who may have been carrying out orders with little understanding of their potential impact.
The preeminent religious authority in Afghanistan, the Ulema Council, said Friday that those responsible for the burning of the Korans and other religious texts should be put on trial and punished. And it called for the American-led coalition to respond by handing over all Afghan prisoners in its custody and ceding control of its prisons.
The Ulema Council, which is made up of scholarly mullahs, made its recommendations following its own investigation into the Koran burning incident last week in a statement released through President Hamid Karzai’s office late on Friday evening.
The burning of the Korans and other religious texts, seized from Afghan prisoners at an American-run detention center, triggered days of deadly protests. At least 29 Afghans have been killed in the violence, and the outpouring of popular fury coincided with the shooting deaths of six American soldiers.
Gen. John R. Allen, the NATO commanding general in Afghanistan, and President Obama both apologized in the wake of the demonstrations.
But in its statement Friday, the Ulema Council condemned the burning, said no apology would be enough to forgive the desecrations of the Koran and asked for guarantees that religious texts would never be dishonored again.
“The council strongly condemns this inhuman, bad and barbaric act by American forces based at Bagram Military Base and emphasizes that this devilish action cannot be forgiven by apologizing,” Maulawi Mohammad Said, a member of the council, said in a statement read to Mr. Karzai, according to the palace. “The perpetrators of this crime should be put on a public trial as soon as possible and be punished, and both NATO and the United States should guarantee that in the future no one will dare to desecrate Muslim religious materials.”
The council’s recommendations largely repeat demands it made last week immediately after the incident — although in fierier language this time — when it also called for a trial and justice for those responsible.
But on Friday the council also said it had concluded that the root cause of the burnings was what it called the illegal administration of the prison and said the remedy was to close down all foreign prisons and hand them over to Afghan control.
Those findings offered support for Mr. Karzai in his long-running dispute with the coalition over control of prisons in Afghanistan.
Mr. Karzai has repeatedly argued that the Afghan government should take over the American-run detention center in Parwan, adjacent to the Bagram Air Base north of Kabul, where more than 3,000 inmates suspected of being insurgents are housed, in addition to other detention centers.
So far, the United States has declined, citing legal reasons and saying that the Afghans are not prepared to run the maximum security sites.
On Friday, Gavin Sundwall, a spokesman for the American Embassy in Kabul, reiterated that argument in an e-mailed statement: “The United States has repeatedly made clear that it is committed to working with the Afghan government to complete a transition of detention operations in Afghanistan in a manner that is safe and orderly and in accordance with our international legal obligations.”
The Ulema Council also came out in favor of an issue the Karzai government sees as another point of national sovereignty: an end to night raids by the United States military, in which commandos search for people suspected of being insurgents in private homes rather than in the field.
Both the control of the prisons and the night raids are sticking points in negotiations, currently at a crucial stage, over a longer-term strategic partnership between the United States and Afghanistan.
The council’s investigation was only one of three parallel investigations into the Koran burnings.
Perhaps more awaited is an interim report, conducted jointly between the United States and Afghan military. It is likely to give a far more detailed explanation into the events that led to the burning of Korans and other religious texts, and its findings will be an important test of Afghan public opinion following the days of violent protests.
NATO said Friday that the investigation was completed, and would soon be passed to General Allen for review. He will decide what findings and recommendations to make public.
It is expected within the next week, officials have said.
But the only investigation that will carry formal legal weight is a third inquiry, conducted by the American military alone, that could lead ultimately to criminal legal action or lesser administrative punishment. Its findings and recommendations are expected in the second half of this month.
After last week’s deadly protests, Afghanistan has become quieter in the last few days, with few signs of protests. Some of the NATO military advisers pulled from Afghan ministries by General Allen after the shooting deaths of two American officers inside the Interior Ministry have also begun to return to work.
Asked whether the calls by the Ulema Council would increase tensions again, Mr. Sundwall said: “We certainly hope that the release of this report does not lead to more violence. We appreciated President Karzai’s repeated calls for dialogue and calm earlier and hope that people took them to heart. As Ambassador Crocker has said, we believe that we will get through this unfortunate period, that a decade’s worth of relationships don’t go away in a single week.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/world/asia/5-soldiers-are-said-to-face-punishment-in-koran-burning-in-afghanistan.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=print
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Words fail me with this communist regime in the WH
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Nah that was a bone headed move. A complete no brainer that burning the Koran would be nothing but trouble. The person who ordered it or allowed it to happen should ran out of the military for being a stupid idiot and isn't fit to carry a gun.
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Nah that was a bone headed move. A complete no brainer that burning the Koran would be nothing but trouble. The person who ordered it or allowed it to happen should ran out of the military for being a stupid idiot and isn't fit to carry a gun.
Do you know why it was done?
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It doesn't matter why the books were burned. Burning them was an obvious mistake even a high schooler could have figured out.
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It doesn't matter why the books were burned. Burning them was an obvious mistake even a high schooler could have figured out.
Not really.
Not when they were burned according to Islamic practice in the same way all the others are burned that are damaged (which these were, considering the Jihadi's were using them to communicate by writing in them and passing them back and forth.)
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:)
It doesn't matter why the books were burned. Burning them was an obvious mistake even a high schooler could have figured out.
Mistakes happen all the time - why validate the feelinggs of the savages.
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:)
Mistakes happen all the time - why validate the feelinggs of the savages.
It's not about validating feelings. It's about not doing things that will cuase unnecessary problems.
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Not really.
Not when they were burned according to Islamic practice in the same way all the others are burned that are damaged (which these were, considering the Jihadi's were using them to communicate by writing in them and passing them back and forth.)
Perhaps, but a better solution would have been Anything but burning them and the people finding out causing all sorts of problems. These aren't the first batch of Korans they have received in 10 years.
Burn them in secret or ship out of the country so know one knows what happened to them.
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It's not about validating feelings. It's about not doing things that will cuase unnecessary problems.
Youre missing the whole deal where they were burned according to Islamic standards, how they dispose of damaged holy book, they did NOTHING wrong.
The books were considered damaged because they were full of writing from the jihadi's to each other, and they were passing the books. So, we disposed of them by their own regs. And then they starting rioting, because we disposed of the books in the proper, approved method.
It doesnt matter, they just used it as a way to incite the masses even though no one did ANYTHING WRONG.
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I get we "burned them according to their law". That's not the point, it seems obvious to me and should have been obvious to who ever ordered it that it probably would have caused a problem.
We're we burning Koreans for the last 10 years we have been there and they knew about it and they just choose this time to riot over it? If so I may be wrong. But I don't think so. It was a bad mistake by someone and that person should be fired.
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What the fuck does Obama even have to do with this?
NATO did an investigation... Nothing has been said aside from the fact they had an investigation and were referred to the US for action.
The US isn't doing shit about any of this.
Obama isn't going to do anything.
The Pentagon isn't going to do anything.
Why the fuck are you so butt hurt about this?
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:). So obama gets credit for bin laden , but has nothing to do with this despite the fact that he publically apologized to karzai?
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in his head everything revolves around obama ::)
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Nah that was a bone headed move. A complete no brainer that burning the Koran would be nothing but trouble. The person who ordered it or allowed it to happen should ran out of the military for being a stupid idiot and isn't fit to carry a gun.
Fuck off. They did nothing wrong.
No one can do anything without "causing trouble" with Muslims. Boohoo. Maybe Christians should start rioting every time they burn down a church. ::)
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Obama publicly apologized to animals and created the expectation that these guys would be punished despite the fact that the did nothing wrong. As commander in chief he has full authority to pardon these guys.
Amazing too - Obama has supreme power to get obi, but is powerless to stop a show trial to appease his Muslim brothers across the world.
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Are they going to apologize for the 4 Americans they've now murdered over this? Until then, they can go fuck themselves.
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Fuck off. They did nothing wrong.
No one can do anything without "causing trouble" with Muslims. Boohoo. Maybe Christians should start rioting every time they burn down a church. ::)
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Oh look its another ignorant tool.
So had they not burned the books and instead did what they have been doing the last tens years we still would have had the riots over it?
Get a brain douche bag.
Who ever is responsible for burning the books, should be fired, PERIOD.
Its not about burning the books, its about the idiot who ordered it or net it happen. common sense was absent from him that day, but obviously absent from people like you permanently.
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:). So obama gets credit for bin laden , but has nothing to do with this despite the fact that he publically apologized to karzai?
Obama shares partial credit for having the balls to make the decision on the raid. Did Obama order the burning of the books in the same direct fashion as he did OB?
Try and keep up.
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Obama shares partial credit for having the balls to make the decision on the raid. Did Obama order the burning of the books in the same direct fashion as he did OB?
Try and keep up.
He should have told karzai that there were jihadi writings in these satanic instruction manuals and that it was the animals who defaced the evil book, not the soldiers.
But keep making excuses for the messiah, it's like the beaten wives club.
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He should have told karzai that there were jihadi writings in these satanic instruction manuals and that it was the animals who defaced the evil book, not the soldiers.
But keep making excuses for the messiah, it's like the beaten wives club.
I am not making excuses, he did what he should have. Instead of getting defensive, he apologized. BFD. The issue is with who ordered this.
Comparing it like you did to the OB raid is comical. Give it a rest.
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I am not making excuses, he did what he should have. Instead of getting defensive, he apologized. BFD. The issue is with who ordered this.
Comparing it like you did to the OB raid is comical. Give it a rest.
And has he demanded an apology from karazai for the dead 4 soldiers?
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And has he demanded an apology from karazai for the dead 4 soldiers?
Has he? Or has he wieghed the polical gain/loss of doing so?
I donno.
Don't really care, other making sure the idiot who ordered the burning gets shown the door.
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Has he? Or has he wieghed the polical gain/loss of doing so?
I donno.
Don't really care, other making sure the idiot who ordered the burning gets shown the door.
So again - it's all about appeasing the savages correct?
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Fuck off. They did nothing wrong.
No one can do anything without "causing trouble" with Muslims. Boohoo. Maybe Christians should start rioting every time they burn down a church. ::)
I agree completely... I just don't see where Obama has said he's doing shit, nor has the Pentagon said they are doing shit.
I don't want anyone apologizing for a goddam thing.
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So again - it's all about appeasing the savages correct?
Nope, it's about not causing yourself unnecessary trouble. A no brainer. If we wanted to appease the Muslims we would have never invaded 2 countries.
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Nope, it's about not causing yourself unnecessary trouble. A no brainer. If we wanted to appease the Muslims we would have never invaded 2 countries.
Our soldiers did nothing wrong And we are prosecuting them? we have a communist demon as potus who bows and apologies to Muslim butchers and does not ask for an apology when 4 of our soldiers are killed, and you can't summon the same outrage for that as you do an innocent mistake caused by jihadis defacing the Koran?
bring them all home now. No soldiers deserve to be put at risk with such traitorous and evil intentions as Obama and his Muslim masters have.
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Our soldiers did nothing wrong And we are prosecuting them? we have a communist demon as potus who bows and apologies to Muslim butchers and does not ask for an apology when 4 of our soldiers are killed, and you can't summon the same outrage for that as you do an innocent mistake caused by jihadis defacing the Koran?
bring them all home now. No soldiers deserve to be put at risk with such traitorous and evil intentions as Obama and his Muslim masters have.
They don't need to prosecute them, the person(s) responsible just need to be shown the door. Probably all show any way.
not much more than that.
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They don't need to prosecute them, the person(s) responsible just need to be shown the door. Probably all show any way.
not much more than that.
really? entire careers flushed down the toilet over this since those Muslim demons can't act in a normal fashion and have a us potus fanning the flames to boot?
Fuck that. Even a private right out of boot camp is more valuable to this nations defense than the ghetto slum pimp communist traitor obama who is going to serve these Muslim butchers our soldiers over a non incident ginned up by apes out of nothing.
If anyone needs to go it's Obama, not the soldiers.
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really? entire careers flushed down the toilet over this since those Muslim demons can't act in a normal fashion and have a us potus fanning the flames to boot?
Fuck that. Even a private right out of boot camp is more valuable to this nations defense than the ghetto slum pimp communist traitor obama who is going to serve these Muslim butchers our soldiers over a non incident ginned up by apes out of nothing.
If anyone needs to go it's Obama, not the soldiers.
No, entire careers flushed down the toilet because they didn't have the common sense to make a good decision. That's life, get over it.
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Sorry, I won't. These people putting their lives on the Line in your defense deserve far better than the communist traitor Obama who is serving these butchers a fresh meal over a non event.
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Sorry, I won't. These people putting their lives on the Line in your defense deserve far better than the communist traitor Obama who is serving these butchers a fresh meal over a non event.
So anyone who makes mistakes in the military shouldn't have cnsquences because they put their lives on the line?
So theft, murder, rape, insubordination, and any other offense should be permitted. Additionally, if they make errors costing money because of negligence and irresponsibility should be free of cnsequences too? And what about mistakes of security leeks? Them too huh. Oh what about the Admiral who ran a carrier aground about 20 years ago? So basically no court Marshall's etc. No penalties, no diciplinary actions because they are risking their lives defending our country.
Yeah 333333, you are making monster sense again.
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Nothing you posted is relevant to the facts of this case. The jihadi monsters defiled the korans by sending messages amongst each other.
From what I understand, the act of these jihadi savages in defiling the Koran allowed for it to be burned.
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Nothing you posted is relevant to the facts of this case. The jihadi monsters defiled the korans by sending messages amongst each other.
From what I understand, the act of these jihadi savages in defiling the Koran allowed for it to be burned.
Its not about whether the burning of the books was justified or not. It's about simple common sense that ordering the Korans burnt could potentially incite a riot. They have been dealing with this I assume for 10 years now, there was several better ways to handle this avoiding unnecessary problems.
Some idioot ordered it done. Some idiot needs to face the consequences. Simple as that.
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Its not about whether the burning of the books was justified or not. It's about simple common sense that ordering the Korans burnt could potentially incite a riot. They have been dealing with this I assume for 10 years now, there was several better ways to handle this avoiding unnecessary problems.
Some idioot ordered it done. Some idiot needs to face the consequences. Simple as that.
Should policy be made based on the anticipated reaction of "egg shell" people in the population? don't you realize what that leads to?
if I were potus - I would have simply said that the jihadi murderers defiled the Koran by writing in it in violation of their own laws, used the Koran to advance terrorism supposedly in violation of Islam, and that the burning of said book, while possibly upsetting, was a result of the jihadis actions, nothing else.
what should they have done? put it in a shredder instead?
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I would think this isn't the first time they dealt with it. So they had been doing something that didn't excite the primitives for some time now I would think in regards to disposing of Korans. Or maybe not, either way it's still a no-brainer.
And It's not so much about policy as fucking common sense. They could have shipped the books off and disposed of them outside Afghanistan and None of the primitives would have ever known.
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I would think this isn't the first time they dealt with it. So they had been doing something that didn't excite the primitives for some time now I would think in regards to disposing of Korans. Or maybe not, either way it's still a no-brainer.
And It's not so much about policy as fucking common sense. They could have shipped the books off and disposed of them outside Afghanistan and None of the primitives would have ever known.
And the animals would have been outraged over that too!
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Its not about whether the burning of the books was justified or not. It's about simple common sense that ordering the Korans burnt could potentially incite a riot. They have been dealing with this I assume for 10 years now, there was several better ways to handle this avoiding unnecessary problems.
Some idioot ordered it done. Some idiot needs to face the consequences. Simple as that.
So you want to end careers on what you perceive to be "common sense"? Fuck off. Common sense for you is different from someone else. For me, common sense would be following proper protocol for destroying defiled korans, which the soldiers did.
Common sense for you apparently is bending over and taking it up the ass from the Muslims. Sorry, you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
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For me, common sense would be following proper protocol for destroying defiled korans, which the soldiers did.
That's because you are idiot.
Nothing new.
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And the animals would have been outraged over that too!
Sometimes, 333333' sometimes...... ::)
They would have never known.
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Sometimes, 333333' sometimes...... ::)
They would have never known.
How did they find out about this?
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How did they find out about this?
Gee, I wonder how?
Yeah, 3333, point well taken, the military couldn't ship the Korans out without them knowing. The primitives have an elaborate network of tracking cargo in the US military. Every C-17 and C-5 has a Muslim mole in it. So they'd know they were taken to a military based somewhere and disposed of. FACT: the military cannot keep secrets, they never ever have. And.......There is no way the military could have made it a non-issue like they have for 10 years now and it's our liberal media who has been hiding the Koran burning riots for 10 years now. In fact, even e Arab networks work for the liberals too.
Com on, 333333 can you just occasionally talk like a human being and stop the tool/I must argue from a conservative view point no matter want all the time?
It was a stupid move, it is what it is.
PS, sorry for the sarcasm, but com on!
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I am speaking as an American who does not give one damn about the feelings of jihadis. I would spray pigs blood on korans daily on nationa tv through a fire hose and eventually the savages would realize that force beats their fake outrage.
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I am speaking as an American who does not give one damn about the feelings of jihadis. I would spray pigs blood on korans daily on nationa tv through a fire hose and eventually the savages would realize that force beats their fake outrage.
I am speaking as a Person with basic common sense that's knows that stirring a hornets is unwise when the juice isn't near worth the squeeze.
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I am speaking as a Person with basic common sense that's knows that stirring a hornets is unwise when the juice isn't near worth the squeeze.
That never ever works. The only thing the barbarians grasp is overwhelming strength.
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That never ever works. The only thing the barbarians grasp is overwhelming strength.
And we have done that. Point is, we ship the books out and they never know about it.
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And we have done that. Point is, we ship the books out and they never know about it.
By apologizing and punishing our soldiers we only encourage these monsters.
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By apologizing and punishing our soldiers we only encourage these monsters.
That's another issue and probably the best polical thing to do to prevent further issues, problems and maybe deaths, but the logic and common sense still stands. The person or persons responsible for such and idiotic move need to be ran out of the military.
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That's another issue and probably the best polical thing to do to prevent further issues, problems and maybe deaths, but the logic and common sense still stands. The person or persons responsible for such and idiotic move need to be ran out of the military.
Completely disagree. We are never going to agree on this.
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That's because you are idiot.
Nothing new.
No, BF's dead-on.
You don't have a fucking clue what the common sense in this situation is. You're playing Monday morning quarterback without the facts.
The one person on this board who has actually been over there, interacted with the people, seen their mores, values, and customs first hand, HH6, has stated that this is how Muslims destroy the Koran themselves.
And not all of the facts have been released. For all we know, the officers could have been advised by a Muslim advisor to use this route. It could have been something we've done before and they've been in the middle of the trash heap and not noticed. Or, it could have been a new burn crew and those men weren't happy with it.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if a couple of guys just noticed it, took it to their Imam(s) and one or two religious leaders stirred the hornets nest.
All we know at this point is that we don't have all the facts.
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I agree we don't know all the facts. But the facts as they are indicate this was a purely bone headed move. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know these animals would have potentially acted in this manner and there fore some common sense and pause should have been applied to this situation. Anyone can figure that out and I would expect the soldiers in charge to be smart enough to know this. these are he same animals that riot over cartoons FFS. How much more obvious does it have to be?
Additionally, it's likely this couldn't have been the only set of Korans they had to dispose of in the 10 years we have been there. How did they deal with it then? Had we been disposing of them this way all along and they knew about it and never had issue with it, then I am definitely wrong here. But I don't think so.
Simple forsight could have been applied to this and that's something I expect from military commanders/advisors. All they had to do was ship them out and no one there would have ever known what happened to them. Instead, we burned them and they found out. Monster stupid.
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The one person on this board who has actually been over there, interacted with the people, seen their mores, values, and customs first hand, HH6, has stated that this is how Muslims destroy the Koran themselves.
Did you like miss this part or something? ^^^^
So you're argument is that soldiers who see that Muslims destroy the Koran by burning it are supposed to assume that destroying the Koran by burning it is wrong?
Yeah, that makes monster sense.
We'll see what facts hold. I still don't think Obama is going to turn them over.
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I'm going to prophesize a CT:
The names of those involved will not be released citing "personal safety"
Shortly thereafter, it will be announced that these anonymous people were dealt with "severely". Maybe even throw in some jail time at Leavenworth.
Obama will act like Karzai's bitch and pathetically attempt to tell him that we've "harshly" dealt with these evil interlopers.
Reality, nothing happens to any of them. :D
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Probably on your CT.
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It wouldn't matter what they saw the other Muslims do. Then They should have had a cleric support it and light the match.
So I will also state it again,these are people who riot over cartoons and mean to kill the cartoonists. How much more obvious could it be to careful approaching burning Korans?
Also, the issue of how/if it was done the past 10 years is still relevant here.
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Probably on your CT.
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It wouldn't matter what they saw the other Muslims do. Then They should have had a cleric support it and light the match.
So I will also state it again,these are people who riot over cartoons and mean to kill the cartoonists. How much more obvious could it be to careful approaching burning Korans?
Also, the issue of how/if it was done the past 10 years is still relevant here.
The purpose of the cartoons was/is to mock and poke fun at the religion.
The "common sense" lesson derived is that "mocking or poking fun" at the religion is going to cause a problem.
It's NOT that all cartoons are bad.
If HH6 is to be believed, the soldiers witnessed the Muslims burn the book to destroy it.
The "common sense" lesson is that burning is appropriate for a Koran.
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I am in no way denying what HH6 says or has reported here.
It's still an issue of commn sense to be aware of a potentially bad decision and everything insanely primitive about these rural Muslims is a no brainer to be considered.
Shipped them away, have a cleric do it what ever. Just don't burn them ourselves and risk inciting the 13th century peeps.
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I am in no way denying what HH6 says or has reported here.
It's still an issue of commn sense to be aware of a potentially bad decision and everything insanely primitive about these rural Muslims is a no brainer to be considered.
Shipped them away, have a cleric do it what ever. Just don't burn them ourselves and risk inciting the 13th century peeps.
So, even if it turns out to be customary or what they believed to be customary...you still want to argue they had no common sense?
Sorry, but that doesn't even pass basic logic for me.
But, we'll see. Hopefully more facts will come out. For all I know, they were ordered not to do it, and did it anyway.
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So, even if it turns out to be customary or what they believed to be customary...you still want to argue they had no common sense?
Sorry, but that doesn't even pass basic logic for me.
But, we'll see. Hopefully more facts will come out. For all I know, they were ordered not to do it, and did it anyway.
I am arguing that they should have not done it anyway considering how primitively volital these people are. To that extent they didn't use common sense. These people are ultra sensitive about their religion. Even if they burn their books they probably would take offense to a non-Muslim doing it. Doesn't that make sense to you Skip?
But like You said we don't know all the facts and I agree my take on it my be premature.
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Other points to this arguement:
- It was reported as an "accidental" burning giving way to the possibility that they had been through this before with other Korans meaning they didn't burn those or let The afghans know.
- Has HH6's report been supported elsewhere? I other words has this been brought up with the afghans?
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I dunno...not sure it would matter given the current fervor.
Just have to wait for what else comes out.
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And then they starting rioting...
They will do that regardless of anything we do or don't do in regards to them.
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They will do that regardless of anything we do or don't do in regards to them.
Exactly my point. They could have flown those Qurans out of the country, and someone could have told a cleric or some shit, next thing you know, BOOM, were taking their Qurans away from people who "just want their book of worship", and BAM, more villification, more riots. Different scenario, same outcome.
I dont think it made a damn difference, they were looking for a reason to incite violence, just like they always do. Im sorry, but there is no way in hell to ensure that we will not give them a reason to incite violence, theyll just come up with something.
No Americans should be held accountable for disposing of damaged Qurans in the proper method. I see where Ozmo is coming from, but the bottom line is you will NEVER be able to 100% Muslim proof yourself over there. They will FIND a way to incite violence against us, even if we did everything 100% politically correct for them and tried to give them NO reason to riot. It cannot be done. And it shouldnt be. We should NOT bend over backwards, allowing the Muslims to dictate our actions because were scared of them freaking out, because they will, about whatever they can.
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
This is how they dispose of Korans in Pakistan. Let's save the faux outrage and ridiculous defending (Ozmo the fool) of this totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion. ::)
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Dude this whole thing is ridiculous. These people suck...they deserve nothing. They don't deserve the life of one of our working dogs, let alone our kids'.
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Exactly my point. They could have flown those Qurans out of the country, and someone could have told a cleric or some shit, next thing you know, BOOM, were taking their Qurans away from people who "just want their book of worship", and BAM, more villification, more riots. Different scenario, same outcome.
I dont think it made a damn difference, they were looking for a reason to incite violence, just like they always do. Im sorry, but there is no way in hell to ensure that we will not give them a reason to incite violence, theyll just come up with something.
No Americans should be held accountable for disposing of damaged Qurans in the proper method. I see where Ozmo is coming from, but the bottom line is you will NEVER be able to 100% Muslim proof yourself over there. They will FIND a way to incite violence against us, even if we did everything 100% politically correct for them and tried to give them NO reason to riot. It cannot be done. And it shouldnt be. We should NOT bend over backwards, allowing the Muslims to dictate our actions because were scared of them freaking out, because
they will, about whatever they can.
Good points, these 13th century primitiVes will always find something. Still think out of sight out mind would have worked. I also still want to know how they dealt with it disposing Korans the past 10 years.
One way to thrOw it back in their faces would have been to punish the people who defaced the Koran in the fist place.
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
This is how they dispose of Korans in Pakistan. Let's save the faux outrage and ridiculous defending (Ozmo the fool) of this totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion. ::)
Yeah just fool enough to have enough common sense to know non muslims burning Korans might incite the animals.
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Another question I have with this is why 5 soldiers?
Shouldn't the one person who ordered it be on the hot seat here?
This suggests that maybe the 5 disobeyed orders.
I donno.
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Exactly my point. They could have flown those Qurans out of the country, and someone could have told a cleric or some shit, next thing you know, BOOM, were taking their Qurans away from people who "just want their book of worship", and BAM, more villification, more riots. Different scenario, same outcome.
I dont think it made a damn difference, they were looking for a reason to incite violence, just like they always do. Im sorry, but there is no way in hell to ensure that we will not give them a reason to incite violence, theyll just come up with something.
No Americans should be held accountable for disposing of damaged Qurans in the proper method. I see where Ozmo is coming from, but the bottom line is you will NEVER be able to 100% Muslim proof yourself over there. They will FIND a way to incite violence against us, even if we did everything 100% politically correct for them and tried to give them NO reason to riot. It cannot be done. And it shouldnt be. We should NOT bend over backwards, allowing the Muslims to dictate our actions because were scared of them freaking out, because they will, about whatever they can.
Good points.
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November cannot come soon enough. He should not be kissing the world's butt. These Soldiers should not be punished. This whole thing is way overblown.
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Does Romney beat Obama?
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Does Romney beat Obama?
The way things are going - yes.
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US Soldier In Afghanistan Says It's Outrageous That The US Apologized For Koran Burnings
Eloise Lee | Mar. 8, 2012, 7:50 AM | 3,468 | 36
The fallout from the Koran burnings by U.S. service members last month continues.
Several U.S. soldiers have been killed. And on Monday, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance of Bagram Airfield in retaliation for the incineration of Islam's holy book.
A U.S. soldier currently deployed to Afghanistan shared his view of the situation with me.
Sergeant Nick Shively of the 172nd Infantry Brigade stationed in Paktika province, said:
"The insurgents used the Koran to write jihadists messages to pass to others. In doing so, they violated their own cultural practice and defiled the Koran."
The holy books were confiscated from a U.S. prison, Parwan Detention Center at Bagram Airfield, after they were discovered to contain extremist messages and were mistakenly taken out with the office trash.
Sgt. Shively continued, "The insurgents turned the Koran into contraband. Therefore it’s ridiculous that we would even consider apologizing.”
Both General John Allen, the commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan, and President Obama have issued apologies. It's a move that could save lives as violent protests rage and an inquiry by U.S. military investigators confirms that five American service members were responsible for the fiery, accidental disposal of Korans at Parwan Detention Center.
It's not the first time the prison has been at the center of U.S.-Afghan relations.
In January this year, President Karzai demanded the U.S. hand over the prison for the sake of Afghan sovereignty. The Washington Post reported that the Parwan Detention Center and its growing detainee population is regarded as a critical marker in the war's endgame and a sign that Afghan officials are ready to inherit institutions essential to the nation's future.
The recent Koran burnings there could give Karzai some leverage in his request for the U.S. to hand over the prison soon.
Winning hearts and minds
Douglas Wissing
The controversy speaks to the American struggle to win over hearts and minds in Afghanistan.
I spoke to historian and author Douglas Wissing who was embedded with U.S. troops in Afghanistan, including the same hostile province where Sgt. Shively is currently based.
Wissing had said in a blog post, "The recent case of Koran burning is even more absurd given the U.S. military was painfully aware of the problems of Koran burning. In late 2009, I was embedded with a unit of Kentucky soldiers, who encountered a mob of rioting Afghans protesting an alleged Koran burning by U.S. troops. Softball-sized rocks rained on the team's convoy of armored MRAPs, breaking windshields and antennas."
He believes last month's Koran burning at Bagram air base is a result of a failure of the counterinsurgency doctrine: "An over-promised doctrine."
What does he mean by over-promised?
“Winning hearts and minds makes sense from the podium in Washington, but it’s hard to have it work out in Afghanistan on the ground where the road just erupted in front of you with an IED.”
The doctrine is found in Field Manual 3-24 (FM3-24), the U.S. Army and Marine Corps' handbook for counterinsurgency operations published in 2006.
According to FM3-24, troops must be prepared take on combat missions while being expected to win over the local people with cultural sensitivity: "Ready to be greeted with either a handshake or a hand grenade...Soldiers and Marines are expected to be nation builders as well as warriors."
Counterinsurgency has a "generational timeline," said Wissing, and Afghan mission can't be wrapped up hastily. The international forces in Afghanistan are working with a tribal culture wherein relationships are fundamental.
Burning bridges
As the U.S. draws down its military presence and focuses on readying Afghanistan to stand on its own, Afghan public opinion will likely be monitored.
Troops will have to avoid any more gaffes that undermine the effort to win hearts and minds by burning bridges on their way out.
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