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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on March 07, 2012, 10:06:27 AM
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WTF is wrong with people? Nation of hyper sensitive pussies.
http://www.ksat.com/news/defenders/Racial-incident-mars-high-school-game/-/478436/9225754/-/145ddl2/-/index.html (http://www.ksat.com/news/defenders/Racial-incident-mars-high-school-game/-/478436/9225754/-/145ddl2/-/index.html)
SAN ANTONIO -
A local school district is apologizing after an apparent incident of racism at a boys high school basketball game this past weekend.
When the final whistle blew Saturday, Alamo Heights celebrated a convincing victory over San Antonio Edison.
Alamo Heights Head Coach Andrew Brewer said he was proud of his team.
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"Tremendously proud,” Brewer said. “Tremendously. It's the best group of kids."
But it was just after the trophy presentation when the coach was not proud of the chant coming from Alamo Heights fans.
"USA, USA, USA," they chanted.
San Antonio Independent School District officials took the chant as a racial insult to a school with all minority players from a school with mostly white ones.
On the KSAT 12 Defenders Facebook page, Santos Villarreal's post reads “this has to stop.”
SAISD Spokeswoman Leslie Price heard about the incident after it had happened.
"This is very disrespectful to our students,” Price said.
She said the district is glad the coach put a stop to the chant immediately and hopes Alamo Heights addresses it quickly.
"It is surprising and it's disappointing to hear that anyone would be out there making those kind of remarks," Price said.
Edison students who attended Saturday's game were shocked when they heard the chant. Some thought the fans of the victors should have been better behaved.
Ruby Arredondo and Forest Lebaron are seniors at Edison and Julian Castellano is a junior.
"I was very surprised,” Castellano said. “Very appalled."
"They didn't really have any class," Arredondo said.
"It just rubbed us the wrong way," Lebaron said.
Alamo Heights Superintendent Dr. Kevin Brown also apologized for the chant.
"We just hope that people know that that's not who we are and we're not going to let it happen again," Brown said.
Alamo Heights has apologized to SAISD and the students identified will also have to apologize and have been banned from the state title games.
"We think that you have to earn a right to be there and that's not a reflection of our school district," Brown said.
Both districts are now just trying to move past this disturbing incident.
Another SAISD school, Lanier High, faced a similar incident within the last year from students in the Cedar Park school district.
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Wait - they took people chanting USA as offensive?!
WTF!!! Theyre all FROM THE USA!
IMHO, this is becoming a big problem - people now days are living here, but identify themselves with their home country.
In the past, when people moved to the US, they were Americans, they assimilated and became part of our culture, took pride in being American.
Now they move here, pimp their home country and get offended when people chant their (new) countries name with pride?
People now days seem to want to move here and use the benefits and opportunities but dont consider themselves Americans anymore, if that makes sense.. kinda having trouble explaining it.
In the past, when they moved here, the US became their 1st priority, they became AMERICANS.
Seems like they dont respect becoming an American anymore, they come here as Mexicans, or Africans, or whatever, and expect us to treat them like Mexicans of Africans instead of fellow American Citizens, and its really starting to irritate me.
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come on their all from the usa,but why do you think they were chanting usa,the other team was mostly minorities.it's not to hard to read into this ::)
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:D
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come on their all from the usa,but why do you think they were chanting usa,the other team was mostly minorities.it's not to hard to read into this ::)
Are they illegal aliens?
And does Chanting USA mean nationalism or racism?
Fact is they are in this country. If they take offense to someone chanting USA they should get the fuck out.
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come on their all from the usa,but why do you think they were chanting usa,the other team was mostly minorities.it's not to hard to read into this ::)
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if your a lawyer you have to be the fucking dumbest lawyer in the country :D
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i didn't think some of you would see anything wrong with it ;D
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Wait - they took people chanting USA as offensive?!
WTF!!! Theyre all FROM THE USA!
IMHO, this is becoming a big problem - people now days are living here, but identify themselves with their home country.
In the past, when people moved to the US, they were Americans, they assimilated and became part of our culture, took pride in being American.
Now they move here, pimp their home country and get offended when people chant their (new) countries name with pride?
People now days seem to want to move here and use the benefits and opportunities but dont consider themselves Americans anymore, if that makes sense.. kinda having trouble explaining it.
In the past, when they moved here, the US became their 1st priority, they became AMERICANS.
Seems like they dont respect becoming an American anymore, they come here as Mexicans, or Africans, or whatever, and expect us to treat them like Mexicans of Africans instead of fellow American Citizens, and its really starting to irritate me.
I think you are mixing up two different things- the story has nothing to do with assimilation of foreigners..I'm totally with you that we should have better assimilation of immigrants (this coming from someone who is an immigrant himself). But the article doesn't mention anywhere the ethnic make-up of the team, just that it was a minority team. We have no idea about how 'assimilated' the team was, just that it was a minority team. Why would they chant 'USA USA' instead of their home teams name, if not to say that the other team was 'unamerican'? It seems to me to be an unfortunate case of teenage belligerent patriotism, something we obviously should not condone.
Having said the above, it doesn't even matter whether the team was foreign, unassimilated, black, white, etc. This type of behavior is never okay.
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i didn't think some of you would see anything wrong with it ;D
Hell no, nothing wrong with it. Would have preferred that they sing the Kenyan National Anthem?
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I think you are mixing up two different things- the story has nothing to do with assimilation of foreigners..I'm totally with you that we should have better assimilation of immigrants (this coming from someone who is an immigrant himself). But the article doesn't mention anywhere the ethnic make-up of the team, just that it was a minority team. We have no idea about how 'assimilated' the team was, just that it was a minority team. Why would they chant 'USA USA' instead of their home teams name, if not to say that the other team was 'unamerican'? It seems to me to be an unfortunate case of teenage belligerent patriotism, something we obviously should not condone.
Having said the above, it doesn't even matter whether the team was foreign, unassimilated, black, white, etc. This type of behavior is never okay.
spot on :)
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can't you stay on topic,your like a fourth grader
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can't you stay on topic,your like a fourth grader
What if the blacks won and they started shouting USA USA USA
Would that have been racist?
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I think you are mixing up two different things- the story has nothing to do with assimilation of foreigners..I'm totally with you that we should have better assimilation of immigrants (this coming from someone who is an immigrant himself). But the article doesn't mention anywhere the ethnic make-up of the team, just that it was a minority team. We have no idea about how 'assimilated' the team was, just that it was a minority team. Why would they chant 'USA USA' instead of their home teams name, if not to say that the other team was 'unamerican'? It seems to me to be an unfortunate case of teenage belligerent patriotism, something we obviously should not condone.
Having said the above, it doesn't even matter whether the team was foreign, unassimilated, black, white, etc. This type of behavior is never okay.
In the case your outlining - yes, you are correct.
Im taking it at face value, considering there could have been many possible reasons for the chant, all of which would not be construed as an insult.
I dont see an entire group chanting the countries name to offend another group of people, who are all living in the country. And therein lies my angst - youre living here, you should associate yourself WITH the chant, not get offended by it. Getting offended by it means they view themselves as not being a part of this country.
I tracked off onto a different issue in my post, mostly due to having seen so much of this, where people immigrate to this country and then expect to live like theyre in their home country, here.
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Are they illegal aliens?
And does Chanting USA mean nationalism or racism?
Fact is they are in this country. If they take offense to someone chanting USA they should get the fuck out.
This was my point.
To me, if theyre getting offended by people chanting the countries name instead of associating with it. They dont view themselves as being Americans and that is the only reason I can see them getting offended.
This is all just MHO of course.
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Can thank the left for everyone being a hyphenated American these days.
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Since when do they play basketball on Mars.
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I think you are mixing up two different things- the story has nothing to do with assimilation of foreigners..I'm totally with you that we should have better assimilation of immigrants (this coming from someone who is an immigrant himself). But the article doesn't mention anywhere the ethnic make-up of the team, just that it was a minority team. We have no idea about how 'assimilated' the team was, just that it was a minority team. Why would they chant 'USA USA' instead of their home teams name, if not to say that the other team was 'unamerican'? It seems to me to be an unfortunate case of teenage belligerent patriotism, something we obviously should not condone.
Having said the above, it doesn't even matter whether the team was foreign, unassimilated, black, white, etc. This type of behavior is never okay.
How is chanting the name of your country racist?
When does chanting the name of your country become not ok in your own country?
If they are foreigners who have immigrated from another country and don't like it then they get the fuck out.
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Its stupid shit like this is the reason the left gets so vilified.
Grow some balls people.
We have kids chanting USA USA USA!
They weren't chanting WHITE PEOPLE! WHITE PEOPLE! WHITE PEOPLE!
You bunch of weak sauce pussies.
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BTW you over sensitive immigrants:
NO ONE ASKED YOU COME HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR CANT HANDLE PATRIOTISM GET THE FUCK OUT.
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Rant over. ;D
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what,it's not hard to figure out that if your the team that's all white and your chanting usa usa and the other team is from san antonio, probably mostly mexican.your not chanting that because your proud your all americans
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How is chanting the name of your country racist?
When does chanting the name of your country become not ok in your own country?
If they are foreigners who have immigrated from another country and don't like it then they get the fuck out.
dont get me wrong. Im a True American in the purest sense and im a patroit.
But for example, the school i coached at in East LA was all mexican, and if they played a team from Orange County, in Orange County, and as the game comes down to the final mins and the kids in the crowd is yelling USA USA... especially if their mascot is the bears or lions or some shit, then you know what the fuck is going on. Not to say its worthy of being suspended or some shit, But to act like its just harmless patriotism is bullshit
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dont get me wrong. Im a True American in the purest sense and im a patroit.
But for example, the school i coached at in East LA was all mexican, and if they played a team from Orange County, in Orange County, and as the game comes down to the final mins and the kids in the crowd is yelling USA USA... especially if their mascot is the bears or lions or some shit, then you know what the fuck is going on. Not to say its worthy of being suspended or some shit, But to act like its just harmless patriotism is bullshit
thank you ;D
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thank you ;D
You going to quote every post that supports your asinine viewpoint, Simple Jack?
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what,it's not hard to figure out that if your the team that's all white and your chanting usa usa and the other team is from san antonio, probably mostly mexican.your not chanting that because your proud your all americans
yeah especially if the team is made up of illegals. And you probably are chanting because you are proud to be an American which means in AMERICA you shouldn't ever have to apologize for it.
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You going to quote every post that supports your asinine viewpoint, Simple Jack?
i said no pickles retard
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Is anyone surprised? This is a country where illegals and terrorists have more rights than its citizens.
i said no pickles retard
Get a job, Simple Jack.
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dont get me wrong. Im a True American in the purest sense and im a patroit.
But for example, the school i coached at in East LA was all mexican, and if they played a team from Orange County, in Orange County, and as the game comes down to the final mins and the kids in the crowd is yelling USA USA... especially if their mascot is the bears or lions or some shit, then you know what the fuck is going on. Not to say its worthy of being suspended or some shit, But to act like its just harmless patriotism is bullshit
But we are all Americans here. Or are we?
If we are not, then they should fucking get out of our country if they don't like it.
Since when does being nationalistic become racism? that's absurd.
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How is chanting the name of your country racist?
When does chanting the name of your country become not ok in your own country?
If they are foreigners who have immigrated from another country and don't like it then they get the fuck out.
depending on the context, such as the one presented, it can be.
In the case your outlining - yes, you are correct.
Im taking it at face value, considering there could have been many possible reasons for the chant, all of which would not be construed as an insult.
I dont see an entire group chanting the countries name to offend another group of people, who are all living in the country. And therein lies my angst - youre living here, you should associate yourself WITH the chant, not get offended by it. Getting offended by it means they view themselves as not being a part of this country.
I tracked off onto a different issue in my post, mostly due to having seen so much of this, where people immigrate to this country and then expect to live like theyre in their home country, here.
If you look at it from the other side, if they thought the other team was associated with america, why would you feel the need to chant 'USA' ? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Ofcourse any reason is possibe, but it was not a big leap for the Coach to come to the conclusion he did about the reason for the chanting.
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Is anyone surprised? This is a country where illegals and terrorists have more rights than its citizens.
Get a job, Simple Jack.
don't be mad because you have to flip burgers,someone has to do it. :D :D :D
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But we are all Americans here. Or are we?
If we are not, then they should fucking get out of our country if they don't like it.
Since when does being nationalistic become racism? that's absurd.
Ok.. youre not getting what im saying. Those mexican american kids are American citizens. We know exactly what hey ment by USA.. It ment US vs them.. Whites vs Mexicans.
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dont get me wrong. Im a True American in the purest sense and im a patroit.
But for example, the school i coached at in East LA was all mexican, and if they played a team from Orange County, in Orange County, and as the game comes down to the final mins and the kids in the crowd is yelling USA USA... especially if their mascot is the bears or lions or some shit, then you know what the fuck is going on. Not to say its worthy of being suspended or some shit, But to act like its just harmless patriotism is bullshit
In the least patronizing manner possible, I think this is a simple issue which someone who belongs to the majority may have a harder time understanding because it is harder to put themselves in these situations (I do not blame them for that).
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depending on the context, such as the one presented, it can be.
If you look at it from the other side, if they thought the other team was associated with america, why would you feel the need to chant 'USA' ? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Ofcourse any reason is possibe, but it was not a big leap for the Coach to come to the conclusion he did about the reason for the chanting.
That's a key problem with many people. They don't take full responsibility for how they interpret and react to things. If the other team doesn't feel they are American that's their issue to deal with. It isn't other people's issues to the point everyone has to walk on egg shells around them.
And all the coach is doing is making sure he doesn't get fired. nothing more.
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In the least patronizing manner possible, I think this is a simple issue which someone who belongs to the majority may have a harder time understanding because it is harder to put themselves in these situations (I do not blame them for that).
Yeah im not gonna continue to argue this.
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That's a key problem with many people. They don't take full responsibility for how they interpret and react to things. If the other team doesn't feel they are American that's their issue to deal with. It isn't other people's issues to the point everyone has to walk on egg shells around them.
And all the coach is doing is making sure he doesn't get fired. nothing more.
Everything is understood within context. And there is always a flip side- why would they chant 'USA' in the first place? Can you admit that its a little weird?
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Bunch of fucking cry babies. Entitlement bitches. maybe next time instead of worrying about their little egg shell culutural hyper-sensitivities these fools could focus on winning the ball game instead?
So sick of these jerk offs screaming racism with every breath.
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Ok.. youre not getting what im saying. Those mexican american kids are American citizens. We know exactly what hey ment by USA.. It ment US vs them.. Whites vs Mexicans.
No i disagree. What the other team meant by it is not the issue here. What they actually said is the issue. If we run around worrying about what people "mean" by everything they say then we will not be able to talk to each other at all. What they said wasn't racist. However, i will concede that what they said was nationalistic.
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Everything is understood within context. And there is always a flip side- why would they chant 'USA' in the first place? Can you admit that its a little weird?
Of course it was weird if not overly assertive/aggressive. But to call it racism is fully incorrect.
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Everything is understood within context. And there is always a flip side- why would they chant 'USA' in the first place? Can you admit that its a little weird?
When Rocky Fights the Russian ... its cool to chant USA
When US plays Chivas Mexico in Soccer, you chant USA
When The Olympic fighter fights a Cuban boxer, you chant USA
But when high school kids that are from one side of town, plays kids from another side of town with a different racial make up.. whats the point to chant USA
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When Rocky Fights the Russian ... its cool to chant USA
When US plays Chivas Mexico in Soccer, you chant USA
When The Olympic fighter fights a Cuban boxer, you chant USA
But when high school kids that are from one side of town, plays kids from another side of town with a different racial make up.. whats the point to chant USA
They weren't chanting "WHITES". Chanting "USA" doesn't make it racism.
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When Rocky Fights the Russian ... its cool to chant USA
When US plays Chivas Mexico in Soccer, you chant USA
When The Olympic fighter fights a Cuban boxer, you chant USA
But when high school kids that are from one side of town, plays kids from another side of town with a different racial make up.. whats the point to chant USA
Maybe better than calling them something worse?
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How dare we support our country!
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Agree to Disagree. We know if they were 2 white teams playing each other, USA wouldnt have been chanted.
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Haider - my point was the chant came from somewhere, in your example, yes it may be construed as racism, but ONLY in that one example.
There are a 10000 others possible explanations that dont involve racism.
A decorated vet being there for instance.
Honoring the flag.
For it to be racism - we'd have to make the leap of logic and assume that ONE WHOLE SIDE was white and that the other WHOLE SIDE was a minority. Thats the only way that could be construed as racism IMHO.
People should not get offended when their fellow citizens chant USA - If they were shouting WHITES, or LEGALS, or CITIZENS, or any other 1000 possiblities, then yes, it probably would be racism, but your assuming that theyre using their countries name to be racist? I dont buy it. I dont buy that the side chanting was all white either, especially being from Texas.
I feel like this is a bunch of thin skinned pussies getting uptight because they felt someone was drawing an US vs THEM attitude.
For it to be racism, requires quite a leap of logic and information we dont have.
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Agree to Disagree. We know if they were 2 white teams playing each other, USA wouldnt have been chanted.
IF THEY WERE TWO BLACK TEAMS WE KNOW THAT THEY STILL WOULD BE CALLING EACH OTHER THE N WORD.
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Agree to Disagree. We know if they were 2 white teams playing each other, USA wouldnt have been chanted.
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Depending on where they are, yeah it could have.
Youre assuming the one team was ENTIRELY WHITE (assuming mostly white), and the other team was entirely comprised of minorities.
Just from this post, your stating without a doubt its racism because (according to you) they only chanted USA cause the other team was mostly minorities. You have no idea why they were chanting USA.
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IF THEY WERE TWO BLACK TEAMS WE KNOW THAT THEY STILL WOULD BE CALLING EACH OTHER THE N WORD.
Not sure what youre getting at? Who would call who ni66er. The fans would Chant Ni66er. What are we talking about here? not sure what youre saying or how its relative to this situation, please clarify what you are saying.
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Agree to Disagree. We know if they were 2 white teams playing each other, USA wouldnt have been chanted.
So if they were playing a white team from Switzerland?
So the Olympics is one big shouting racism convention?
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Depending on where they are, yeah it could have.
Youre assuming the one team was ENTIRELY WHITE (assuming mostly white), and the other team was entirely comprised of minorities.
Just from this post, your stating without a doubt its racism because (according to you) they only chanted USA cause the other team was mostly minorities. You have no idea why they were chanting USA.
No i think you got me wrong. I dont know the dynamics of the team. I dont know the dynamics of the story. But I cant say that always Chanting USA USA in all instances is harmless.
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So if they were playing a white team from Switzerland?
So the Olympics is one big shouting racism convention?
No. then its National pride, which i have. But why would i chant USA against another American, unless i dont feel that other team is American.
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No. then its National pride, which i have. But why would i chant USA against another American, unless i dont feel that other team is American.
Was the other team full of tacos?
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No i disagree. What the other team meant by it is not the issue here. What they actually said is the issue. If we run around worrying about what people "mean" by everything they say then we will not be able to talk to each other at all. What they said wasn't racist. However, i will concede that what they said was nationalistic.
you're wrong. Many many times in daily conversation we infer things not by what was said, but by the fact that it was said (i wont waste time with examples unless you ask for some). Intention plays a very big role in everyday life, not only the strict logical structure. This is called "conversational implicatures". Some studies say that we do this (leave things to be inferred without saying it explicitly) as a means of respecting the intelligence of others, i.e. "they're smart enough to fill in the blanks so I don't have to". We can, and very much do, run around worrying about what people intend to mean apart from what the words people use actually do mean.
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No. then its National pride, which i have. But why would i chant USA against another American, unless i dont feel that other team is American.
Why would you feel that? Maybe because the other team is composed of illegals?
Why would the other team take offense if they were also American citizens?
Maybe they should have chanted with them.
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you're wrong. Many many times in daily conversation we infer things not by what was said, but by the fact that it was said (i wont waste time with examples unless you ask for some). Intention plays a very big role in everyday life, not only the strict logical structure. This is called "conversational implicatures". Some studies say that we do this (leave things to be inferred without saying it explicitly) as a means of respecting the intelligence of others, i.e. "they're smart enough to fill in the blanks so I don't have to". We can, and very much do, run around worrying about what people intend to mean apart from what the words people use actually do mean.
My point is maybe we shouldn't, because when we do, we often make it out to be something its not.
Chanting USA USA USA is not racist. It can however be charged as nationalistic.
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Why would you feel that? Maybe because the other team is composed of illegals?
Why would the other team take offense if they were also American citizens?
Maybe they should have chanted with them.
for them to Assume that the other team is full of illegals because they are non-White is racist.
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for them to Assume that the other team is full of illegals because they are non-White is racist.
did they?
Or are they dealing with the reality of 12,000,000+ illegals (99% Mexican) in the USA?
And how is that Racist? Calling them spics, wet backs, etc.. is.
how about when a Mexican family flies a Mexico flag in front of their house is that racist?
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My point is maybe we shouldn't, because when we do, we often make it out to be something its not.
Chanting USA USA USA is not racist. It can however be charged as nationalistic.
you said earlier that if we do worry about what people intend to mean, then we will not be able to talk to each other at all
I said that we do worry about what people intend to mean, and are still able to talk to each other, thereby invalidating your conditional.
Now you are saying we do, but that we shouldn't ???. You probably meant "if we worry only about what people intend to mean" in your original conditional. In your original, you left open the possibility of also considering logical structure, but I think you intended to say that if we disregarded logical structure and only focused on intent, then we will not be able to talk to each other. This is allowed by my revised conditional adding the word "only", not by your original statement.
see how we need to focus on intent to even have this discussion? Intent is very important.
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ITT: Nanny statists complain.
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Maybe we should charge the students w a hate crime for chanting USA due to the hypersensitive crybabies melting down like impulsive overly emotional toddlers?
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you said earlier that if we do worry about what people intend to mean, then we will not be able to talk to each other at all
I said that we do worry about what people intend to mean, and are still able to talk to each other, thereby invalidating your conditional.
Now you are saying we do, but that we shouldn't ???. You probably meant "if we worry only about what people intend to mean" in your original conditional. In your original, you left open the possibility of also considering logical structure, but I think you intended to say that if we disregarded logical structure and only focused on intent, then we will not be able to talk to each other. This is allowed by my revised conditional adding the word "only", not by your original statement.
see how we need to focus on intent to even have this discussion? Intent is very important.
This is what i said:
If we run around worrying about what people "mean" by everything they say then we will not be able to talk to each other at all.
You said:
We can, and very much do, run around worrying about what people intend to mean apart from what the words people use actually do mean.
And i said:
.....Maybe we shouldn't. because when we do, we often make it out to be something its not.
So what was your point again?
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Question for all of you who think this incident at the game was racist.
"If a Mexican family flies a Mexican flag in front of their house is that Racist?"
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Question for all of you who think this incident at the game was racist.
"If a Mexican family flies a Mexican flag in front of their house is that Racist?"
Oh of course not - that is the highest sign of patriotism in America, especially when they burn the flag and spit on it.
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what they did was chant usa usa.now they're probably all americans but what they were trying to do is call them un-american because of their color.is it racist that's an opinion,does it show no class,sure does
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what they did was chant usa usa.now they're probably all americans but what they were trying to do is call them un-american because of their color.is it racist that's an opinion,does it show no class,sure does
The charge is racism, not whether they have class or not.
Try and keep up Blacken ;)
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The charge is racism, not whether they have class or not.
Try and keep up Blacken ;)
try to keep up ::) i think it was. do you think it shows no class
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BTW you over sensitive immigrants:
NO ONE ASKED YOU COME HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR CANT HANDLE PATRIOTISM GET THE FUCK OUT.
Racist post reported.
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what they did was chant usa usa.now they're probably all americans but what they were trying to do is call them un-american because of their color.is it racist that's an opinion,does it show no class,sure does
You have no idea that was why they were chanting that. Thats your opinion and your basis to prove its racism.
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You have no idea that was why they were chanting that. Thats your opinion and your basis to prove its racism.
why don't you tell us another reason they did it,even the coach knew it ::)
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try to keep up ::) i think it was. do you think it shows no class
Was the article about having no class? or was it about what they did as being racist?
Learn to read first, then try and keep up
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Was the article about having no class? or was it about what they did as being racist?
Learn to read first, then try and keep up
why don't you answer the question :'(
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why don't you answer the question :'(
I would if the discussion here was about whether what they did was classless or not. But if that was the case, it would have never made the news and hence never made it on this forum. So i see no point in answering it. :P :D ;) ;D
In case you forget....
The issue is about racism, not whether or not the boys had class.
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what ever mr no balls.i think it had to do with race and was classless.i least i have the balls to give my opinion and not play little games ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :'( :D
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what ever mr no balls.i think it had to do with race and was classless.i least i have the balls to give my opinion and not play little games ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :'( :D
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a day in the life of 333386
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Racism?
It's not like they said "Remember the Alamo"...
8)
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Racism?
It's not like they said "Remember the Alamo"...
8)
We used to yell "Howard Beach" back in the day or "Remember Bernie!" when the thugs got uppity.
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what ever mr no balls.i think it had to do with race and was classless.i least i have the balls to give my opinion and not play little games ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :'( :D
dude your track record of answering questions in general is horrible. So don't expect me to immediately answer yours.
If you can explain to me how this article and debate has anything to do with class I will answer your question. However, you already know what my answer will be and whether its yes or no, it has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not its racism.
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as soon as they started the winning coach knew what it was about and he was right there.if you want to deny it that's fine.but the coach was there and he knew the situation
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as soon as they started the winning coach knew what it was about and he was right there.if you want to deny it that's fine.but the coach was there and he knew the situation
Is it possible the Coach was just covering his ass? No, of course not, no one today is scared shitless of other people freaking out over nothing, no one at all....... ::)
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as soon as they started the winning coach knew what it was about and he was right there.if you want to deny it that's fine.but the coach was there and he knew the situation
the coach was smart enough to know that anything else might have cost him his job is this hypersensitive country we live in. BTW High school boys do classless things all the time, what isn't tolerated is racism. what happen here was far from racism no more than a American of Mexican origins waving a Mexican flag at the game.
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the coach was smart enough to know that anything else might have cost him his job is this hypersensitive country we live in. BTW High school boys do classless things all the time, what isn't tolerated is racism. what happen here was far from racism no more than a American of Mexican origins waving a Mexican flag at the game.
that's your opinion,seems alot of people had a differant opinion,they witnessed it live,and your looking at a 1 minute video
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that's your opinion,seems alot of people had a differant opinion,they witnessed it live,and your looking at a 1 minute video
I don't give shit what the majority of people think. What you just said suggests you do. The people sounding off on this are the pussy libs, he same hyper sensitive bunch who probably advocate scoreless soccer games.
Blacken are you one those? I don't think you are. Personally I think you are just taking a contrary stance on this for the fun of it. you know it's not racism.
It's ok to agree with the getbig conservatives every once in a while. :D
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I don't give shit what the majority of people think. What you just said suggests you do. The people sounding off on this are the pussy libs, he same hyper sensitive bunch who probably advocate scoreless soccer games.
Blacken are you one those? I don't think you are. Personally I think you are just taking a contrary stance on this for the fun of it. you know it's not racism.
It's ok to agree with the getbig conservatives every once in a while. :D
ookk you caught me ;D
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ookk you caught me ;D
Heheh. I knew it :)
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Gimme a break Blacken is definitly in the "everybody gets a trophy crowd". Anybody realize that as we pansify this country more and more, its a major national security risk. Kids are fat because mom and dad can't kick their asses off the couch. Kids get bullied and can't do anything about it like kick the shit out of the bully because they'd go to jail on charges. Instead they either klebold and harris their classmates or kill themselves.
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This is what i said:
If we run around worrying about what people "mean" by everything they say then we will not be able to talk to each other at all.
You said:
We can, and very much do, run around worrying about what people intend to mean apart from what the words people use actually do mean.
And i said:
.....Maybe we shouldn't. because when we do, we often make it out to be something its not.
So what was your point again?
I wasn't going to respond, but seeing where this thread went, I think I'll jump back in
My point is that intention is very important in daily conversation. We DO "worry about what people mean by everything they say" and yet we still are able to talk to each other (I talked about how examining intention in daily conversation allows us to have meaningful conversations that would otherwise go nowhere. This is called "conversational implicature" that has been documented and studied intensely). Knowing intention (and therefore examining intention) is a necessity to have daily conversation. The part above in bold that you originally said is simply false.
Now to relate this back to the "USA" shout. It might be false to say that the shouting was racist, but it is also cannot be inferred that the shouting was not intended to be racist. They may well have meant it to be racist, and the other team (or whoever it was that took the shouting to be racist, I don't really care who) may have made a valid conversational implicature. That is, once again, correctly inferring something not by the literal meaning of what was said, but by the fact that it WAS said.
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I disagree because there are 2 parties involved in any communication. The person that said it and the person it was direct to. The person it was directed to has to shoulder the responsibilty of how they react to it. If we run around worrying about what everything is meant by a given assertion that opens the door to a plethora of possible misunderstandings....lea ding to not being able to talk to each other at all. People can then craft what ever they want from what was said and give it their own meaning. That's why the face value of what's said is very important. And in this instance what those boys said was NOT racist. Whether they meant it or not is not the issue here. They could said blank blank blank and meant it to mean a racist statement but in the end it would have been racist.
What hey did do was nationalistic, not racism. Who ever took as racist is on them, nothing more. Those who took it as racism need to look in the mirror. Now With that being said, what those boys did was not good and they shouldnt do it.
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I disagree because there are 2 parties involved in any communication. The person that said it and the person it was direct to. The person it was directed to has to shoulder the responsibilty of how they react to it. If we run around worrying about what everything is meant by a given assertion that opens the door to a plethora of possible misunderstandings....lea ding to not being able to talk to each other at all. People can then craft what ever they want from what was said and give it their own meaning. That's why the face value of what's said is very important. And in this instance what those boys said was NOT racist. Whether they meant it or not is not the issue here. They could said blank blank blank and meant it to mean a racist statement but in the end it would have been racist.
What hey did do was nationalistic, not racism. Who ever took as racist is on them, nothing more. Those who took it as racism need to look in the mirror. Now With that being said, what those boys did was not good and they shouldnt do it.
Once again. We ALREADY do this. It's a fact, it's been studied, etc. We already do "run around worrying about what everything is meant" by the person who said it, etc etc. THIS is how we get through daily life. Your conditional is false (conditionals are false when and only when the antecedent is true and the consequent is false. The antecedent is true "we do run around worrying about what is meant" and the consequent is false, it is not the case that we are not able to talk to each other at all). This is not a debatable point.
I'll give you an easy example, maybe what I'm saying isn't making any sense without examples. You're in a car with your buddy, he's driving he runs out of gas, says "shit, i'm almost out of gas, do you know where the nearest gas station is?" You know where the nearest gas station is, but you also know it's closed and he won't be able to get gas there. Does he want directions to that particular gas station? (Logically= yes, conversational implicature= no)
The face value of what is said IS important. It's very important. So is filling in the gaps, by means of conversational implicature, context, etc etc.
If the issue is "was their actions racist?" then the issue is definitely their intentions. Were there clearer ways of being racist? Of course. Was this a less clear way of being racist? Maybe. Was it intended to be racist? I don't know, but it cannot be inferred that it wasn't intended to be racist. It depends on context, the fact that it was said (despite logical meaning), etc etc. Welcome to language.
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Magoo, my point is we do this too much. And beucase we do this too much "blank blank blank" can be construed as racism. Thats creates a ridiculous world and thats where we have been heading. We cant say merry christmas becuase it might offend someone. What they said wasn't racist. Simple as that.
We need to grow some thick skin and take responsibilty for how we react to what is said to us.
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Magoo, my point is we do this too much. And beucase we do this too much "blank blank blank" can be construed as racism. Thats creates a ridiculous world and thats where we have been heading. We cant say merry christmas becuase it might offend someone. What they said wasn't racist. Simple as that.
We need to grow some thick skin and take responsibilty for how we react to what is said to us.
I'll stop bugging you after this ;D
but, you said 1) "what they said wasn't racist", that is a very different statement from 2) "they werent racist by saying it". I think the difference highlights some of the arguments in this thread. Would you agree that it's possible #2 is false while #1 is true?
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I'll stop bugging you after this ;D
but, you said "what they said wasn't racist", that is a very different statement from "they werent racist by saying it". I think the difference highlights some of the arguments in this thread. Would you agree that it's possible #2 is false while #1 is true?
Mr. Magoo, its all good. I enjoy discussions like these (especially because/when they don't digress into ad hom) and respect your view points even though i may not agree with them.
I can see where the 2 statements can be taken as different but i can also see where they can be taken as the same. maybe you can give an example showing how they are different.
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Mr. Magoo, its all good. I enjoy discussions like these (especially because/when they don't digress into ad hom) and respect your view points even though i may not agree with them.
I can see where the 2 statements can be taken as different but i can also see where they can be taken as the same. maybe you can give an example showing how they are different.
To restate, the two sentences are 1) what they said wasn't racist, and 2) They weren't racist by saying it.
To be clear, I am saying that #1 may be true, while #2 is false.
Example. Let's see.... I'll stick with a modified version of this case. Let's say 2 teams, one white, one hispanic. White team shouts "Remember the Alamo" and does it angrily (obviously angrily, mean expressions, etc, whole works), while staring directly at and motioning at the other team while doing so.
Logically speaking "remember the alamo" is simply saying that the alamo should be remembered. Logically speaking, there isn't anything inherent in the words themselves of being racist. So sentence #1 "what they said wasn't racist" can be true. The words they said was "remember the alamo". Now, most people would respond "yes but you have to consider why they said it", which would bring up sentence #2. "They weren't racist by saying it". This can be false. They could have clearly meant it to be racist (and in my hypothetical here, such a team probably would mean it as racist).
That is a clear case where sentences #1 and #2 can be different and separated. I'm not saying this present case is as clear, it clearly isn't. But there is a difference in the meanings of 1) What they said wasn't racist (or "The words they used were not racist") and 2) They weren't racist by saying it ("they didn't intend it to be racist" or "it wasn't racist simply by virtue of being said")
so my original question. Would you agree that it's possible, in this case (not my hypothetical), that #2 is false, while #1 is true? (would you agree that it is possible that 1) The words they used were not racist but 2) It was the case that they intended it to be racist
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Ok i see.
"What they said can be construed as racist, but what they said wasn't racist."
How's that?
Who needs to take responsibility for how they reacted? (which is my point all along in our conversation ;))
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Ok i see.
"What they said can be construed as racist, but what they said wasn't racist."
How's that?
Who needs to take responsibility for how they reacted? (which is my point all along in our conversation ;))
Were you not the guy melting done all over the place on the Koran issue on this same type of thing?
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Were you not the guy melting done all over the place on the Koran issue on this same type of thing?
what do you mean?
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Ok i see.
"What they said can be construed as racist, but what they said wasn't racist."
How's that?
Who needs to take responsibility for how they reacted? (which is my point all along in our conversation ;))
The part I bold is my original point. I'll grant you the 2nd part.
Who needs to take responsibility for how they reacted? I don't agree with the question. I think you are asking whether it was a valid inference to make (considering context, the fact that it was said despite logical meaning of what was said, etc) that the action (shouting USA USA) was racist. Or to put it in a different way, Was whoever construed it as racist justified in construing it as racist?. Is that what you are asking? If It is, then my answer is "I don't know, I wasn't there, it depends, but we cannot go on logical meaning of the words alone.
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what do you mean?
You kept saying that the reaction of the savages should have been taken into account, despite the fact that soldiers factually dd nothing wrong correct?
What's the difference here?
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To restate, the two sentences are 1) what they said wasn't racist, and 2) They weren't racist by saying it.
To be clear, I am saying that #1 may be true, while #2 is false.
Example. Let's see.... I'll stick with a modified version of this case. Let's say 2 teams, one white, one hispanic. White team shouts "Remember the Alamo" and does it angrily (obviously angrily, mean expressions, etc, whole works), while staring directly at and motioning at the other team while doing so.
Logically speaking "remember the alamo" is simply saying that the alamo should be remembered. Logically speaking, there isn't anything inherent in the words themselves of being racist. So sentence #1 "what they said wasn't racist" can be true. The words they said was "remember the alamo". Now, most people would respond "yes but you have to consider why they said it", which would bring up sentence #2. "They weren't racist by saying it". This can be false. They could have clearly meant it to be racist (and in my hypothetical here, such a team probably would mean it as racist).
That is a clear case where sentences #1 and #2 can be different and separated. I'm not saying this present case is as clear, it clearly isn't. But there is a difference in the meanings of 1) What they said wasn't racist (or "The words they used were not racist") and 2) They weren't racist by saying it ("they didn't intend it to be racist" or "it wasn't racist simply by virtue of being said")
so my original question. Would you agree that it's possible, in this case (not my hypothetical), that #2 is false, while #1 is true? (would you agree that it is possible that 1) The words they used were not racist but 2) It was the case that they intended it to be racist
goddamn, i thought the bible covered this 2000 years ago. Simply put: sin is in the intentions.
If i yell 'jew' at someone who is jewish, it isn't simply the word which determines whether what I said was offensive or not. It is the intention, which can be deduced from the context, the manner in which it was said, etc. Can we get to the next thread already? >:(
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To clarify:
My stance on the Koran book burning thing:
- those are 13th century primitives down there.
- Its more than obvious that burning those books could have potentially cause a big problem
- the person responsible should be fired.
My stance on this issue:
- What the boys said wasn't racist, it was nartionalistic
- People should take responsibility on how they react to things
- when we are too sensitive about what something might mean we will put ourselves in a position where we cant say anything
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The part I bold is my original point. I'll grant you the 2nd part.
Who needs to take responsibility for how they reacted? I don't agree with the question. I think you are asking whether it was a valid inference to make (considering context, the fact that it was said despite logical meaning of what was said, etc) that the action (shouting USA USA) was racist. Or to put it in a different way, Was whoever construed it as racist justified in construing it as racist?. Is that what you are asking? If It is, then my answer is "I don't know, I wasn't there, it depends, but we cannot go on logical meaning of the words alone.
we agree somewhat.
:)
Was whoever construed it as racist justified in construing it as racist? My answer is no. And that's one of the very big problems in this country, things like that.
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You kept saying that the reaction of the savages should have been taken into account, despite the fact that soldiers factually dd nothing wrong correct?
What's the difference here?
The basket ball team wouldn't have suicide bombed the other teams school. ;)
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i think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree on this on
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i think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree on this on
you are just saying that. ;) ;D
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i think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree on this on
I think it was good to get at the root differences in each others points.
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The basket ball team wouldn't have suicide bombed the other teams school. ;)
No, just pull out CZ .22 pistols and shoot niggas.
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yep, got a hoody on today that says: "USA" on the front of it. Going to eat lunch off a taco truck today, I wonder if i will get accused of racism. :D
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yep, got a hoody on today that says: "USA" on the front of it. Going to eat lunch off a taco truck today, I wonder if i will get accused of racism. :D
Reported to FBI for terrorism.
Reason -
1. trying to blend in with "USA shirt"
2. paying with cash
3. going to non-mainstream establishment in order to stay off "the grid"
4. Associating with possible illegals, also possible terrorists for operating a food establishment that only uses cash
5. Pretending to be patriotic to throw others off.