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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The_Hammer on April 24, 2012, 12:38:00 PM
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For years I've always done flat bench and I've never had an discomfort or injuries from it.
For years I've seen people write how it's dangerous; even the great Dorian Yates says it's a bad exercise.
Finally last week I injured myself doing this movement, with only 225 lbs. I thought it was a freak accident, and this week my shoulder has felt fine, until I did flat bench again. I've done shoulder presses with 300 lbs the other day, and no pain at all, but 145 lbs on the flat bench cripples my shoulder.
It's only that exercise that causes the pain, therefore I believe the myth that flat bench is bad.
Heed this advice for you natural lifters.
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maybe you are not meant to have big, juicy, hard pecs bro
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You need a weighted push up machine. Scroll down to Falcone's thread.
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I had a terrible cuff injury from the flat barbell bench. Took me 6 months and I swore never to flat bb bench again. But I couldn't help it and I started again.
Still bad idea.... :-\
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It's a myth. Joint stability before primary movers. Possibly doing it the wrong way that causes more stress on the joint and connective tissue. Overuse.
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Lern2bench
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flat bench is an over rated exercise and many spend too much time and waste energy during their chest routine doing countless sets of bench press
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I was benching back in college, and I was repping with 315, and all of a sudden I had a weird pain in my armpit. I rested for a few minutes, then loaded anothe 20 lbs on to do my next set and couldn't press it once without getting help. I knew something was wrong. I didnt do chest for a few weeks after that, and when I did, flat and decline bench made that tendon in my armpit uncomfortable, but incline and shoulder press did not. It took a long time to heal, and every time I start getting heavy on bench for a while, it feels funky and I have to back it down. I believe it came from ego lifting. I hadn't worked out all summer, started juicing, and went from 275 for sets of eight to 315 for ten over a period of a few weeks(muscle memory, had benched like that before)
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warm up the rotators properly is crucial .
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warm up the rotators properly is crucial .
No matter how I warm up or watch my form, I feel the flat bb bench in my shoulders, and my front delts get the most sore. With db bench my pecs get way more sore.
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flat bench is an over rated exercise and many spend too much time and waste energy during their chest routine doing countless sets of bench press
its amazing how many sets guys dedicate to bench.... and how hard they will try to go heavy on this excercise
ive gone in to the gym finish an entire workout and the guys i walked in on doing bench press was still doing bench press pulling the bar off each other.... these sme guys never put that kind of work into deads or squats...
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No matter how I warm up or watch my form, I feel the flat bb bench in my shoulders, and my front delts get the most sore. With db bench my pecs get way more sore.
decline bench..
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decline bench..
Don't want droopy boobs....
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It's called taking care of yourself. any excercise can be overdone, cause tense muscles, tight tendons and whatever else. take the proper care before and after and makesure you can be free and mobile to avoid injuries. if the shoulder is sore and nagging, maybe start by treating it to a massage to loosen up the tissues pulling on the muscle and causing pain. worked for me along with stretches and home remedies to help fix beat up tissues.
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For years I've always done flat bench and I've never had an discomfort or injuries from it.
For years I've seen people write how it's dangerous; even the great Dorian Yates says it's a bad exercise.
Finally last week I injured myself doing this movement, with only 225 lbs. I thought it was a freak accident, and this week my shoulder has felt fine, until I did flat bench again. I've done shoulder presses with 300 lbs the other day, and no pain at all, but 145 lbs on the flat bench cripples my shoulder.
It's only that exercise that causes the pain, therefore I believe the myth that flat bench is bad.
Heed this advice for you natural lifters.
225lbs, LOL
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No matter how I warm up or watch my form, I feel the flat bb bench in my shoulders, and my front delts get the most sore. With db bench my pecs get way more sore.
this dumbells i feel hit the chest better.... by far
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For years I've always done flat bench and I've never had an discomfort or injuries from it.
For years I've seen people write how it's dangerous; even the great Dorian Yates says it's a bad exercise.
Finally last week I injured myself doing this movement, with only 225 lbs. I thought it was a freak accident, and this week my shoulder has felt fine, until I did flat bench again. I've done shoulder presses with 300 lbs the other day, and no pain at all, but 145 lbs on the flat bench cripples my shoulder.
It's only that exercise that causes the pain, therefore I believe the myth that flat bench is bad.
Heed this advice for you natural lifters.
try this bench , i severly[is there any other way] dislocated my shoulder and bought this bench and now bench in greater comfort, safety and rom than before.
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Using dumbbells for flat benches now. It really seems to hit the chest better. If you can't find heavy enough dumbbells try going really low. It seems when it comes to dumbbell benches most guys short stroke the movement so they can grab the biggest dumbbells in the gym.
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for a start, DBs dont offer you greater range of movement than barbell. If you draw a line between your hands in the DB press u will notice that you dont go as deep.
secondly, depth in the flat press doesnt contribute to pec size. The last bottom third of the rep is mechanically disadvantageous and a shoulder wrecker.
The top 1/5th of the rep is also bad for the shoulders.
that leaves a small portion where its useful. The hammer strength machine is good as it lifts the resistance thruogh the upright plane for the portion of the rep that is useful. For both the bottom and top of the range, the weights are moving less against gravity.
The best pec exercises are machine or cable flyes. They are the only exercise that replicates what the pec does completely. Dumb bell flyes are good also, but again the top and bottom of the range is useless.
For shoulder issues, its more that the bar restricts the proper, natural arc of motion. Plus its overuse and ego lifting. All that equals shoulder damage.
I recommend to anyone to just not train shoulders as a result. They get plenty of work from back and chest, and you either have them or you dont. Once they are gone, so are your plans of becoming huge.
speaking from experience.
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It's a myth. Joint stability before primary movers. Possibly doing it the wrong way that causes more stress on the joint and connective tissue. Overuse.
x2
I do flat bench work twice a week. Most people I see in the gym don't know how to bench. Incorrect setup, elbows flared, bar path etc. They dont even know how to unrack the bar, they press it out of the j hooks instead of pulling it out.
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For years I've always done flat bench and I've never had an discomfort or injuries from it.
For years I've seen people write how it's dangerous; even the great Dorian Yates says it's a bad exercise.
Finally last week I injured myself doing this movement, with only 225 lbs. I thought it was a freak accident, and this week my shoulder has felt fine, until I did flat bench again. I've done shoulder presses with 300 lbs the other day, and no pain at all, but 145 lbs on the flat bench cripples my shoulder.
It's only that exercise that causes the pain, therefore I believe the myth that flat bench is bad.
Heed this advice for you natural lifters.
Natural or not it's a bad lift...as is the Hammer Strength Incline Machine.
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(http://fitnessanddefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/chest-dips.jpg)
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Smith Inclines
Dumbell Inclines
Flyes
Thank me later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=416798.0;attach=459108;image)
(http://ardkor.info/uploaded/rofl3.png)
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Fucker got me as well last week and now I'm sitting here unable to lift my arm.
Hadn't done regular benches in a years - been working well with seated Hammers and flat db but thought I'd just change it up for variety. And you know, I actually thought to be careful because I'd not benched for ages. Spent a long time warming up shoulders - got through 3 sets pain free but the next day i was fucked.
Now I'm sitting here waiting for my second physio/osteo appointment of the week and it's only fucking Wednesday.
Fuck you bench press!
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I never flat bench, pointless exercise IMO. I know 4 guys who've torn their pecs doing it, countless RC injuries. Sure guys have done it for years and have no problems but it's just too easy for something to go wrong.
Hammer Strength machines are far better for building the pecs anyway, haven't used any other machines that even come close. If you don't have them in your gym, I'll second what Wes said, Incline Smith, DB's and Cables are second best to the Hammer machines.
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The truth is that the big 3 powerlifting lift ( Bench Press, Deadlift, Squat) are the reason why most 40 years old bodybuilders have fucked up rotator cuff and herniated disc!
Avoid the big 3 lift if you still want to lift weight otherwaise you'll quit going to the gym for frustration derived from the pain you'll will expwerience!
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same thing happened to me, my shoulders are fucked for the rest of my life, so i cant no longer do dips all the way down and bench.. i just woke up in the middle of the night and my shoulder where swollen and i couldnt move.. this was 3 years ago...
when i do incline, decline or other exercises its all okay dont feel any pain but when i use more than 60 kg on the flat bench, fuck im in hug pain for days!!
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That's why you should spend some time regulary doing profilactic exercises for your rotator cuff (google it). They strenghten some of the "neglected" areas and the chance of injury gets lower.
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you can't generalize... flat bench is good for some... not as good for others... go with what feels right for you
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For years I've always done flat bench and I've never had an discomfort or injuries from it.
For years I've seen people write how it's dangerous; even the great Dorian Yates says it's a bad exercise.
Finally last week I injured myself doing this movement, with only 225 lbs. I thought it was a freak accident, and this week my shoulder has felt fine, until I did flat bench again. I've done shoulder presses with 300 lbs the other day, and no pain at all, but 145 lbs on the flat bench cripples my shoulder.
It's only that exercise that causes the pain, therefore I believe the myth that flat bench is bad.
Heed this advice for you natural lifters.
bench press is a good exercise.
but people use it with a bad form,too many ego, bouncing, forced rep, trying to max at every workout.
if people use skull crusher, lateral raise or calf machine that way you'll see thousand of article like ": The Myth About skull crusher is True", "The Myth About calf machine is True" etc etc
use bench press a a muscle builder, 6/10 reps range, controlled reps and you'll be fine.
bp is not a bad exercise by itself, the egomake it a bad exercise.
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Can't work out what is more in fashion on Getbig these days - to decry bench presses or decry supplement use. ;)
Flat benches have always worked fine for me - decent gains in strength and size and no injuries. To each their own. I do however prefer declines though for lower pec development.
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you can't generalize... flat bench is good for some... not as good for others... go with what feels right for you
Very true.....some people are just great at benching and can push out huge numbers on the lift,others will never have a big bench no matter how long they train.
Same thing as far as developing pecs is concerned,some guys respond great to benches as they just have a propensity for the lift,others will be better suited trying other chest movements.
Too heavy,too often,with a huge ego is what wrecks most peoples shoulders as far as benching is concerned.
How big is your arm,and how much can you bench ???
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It's a myth. Joint stability before primary movers. Possibly doing it the wrong way that causes more stress on the joint and connective tissue. Overuse.
x2
Even light weights can injure you.
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Very true.....some people are just great at benching and can push out huge numbers on the lift,others will never have a big bench no matter how long they train.
Same thing as far as developing pecs is concerned,some guys respond great to benches as they just have a propensity for the lift,others will be better suited trying other chest movements.
Too heavy,too often,with a huge ego is what wrecks most peoples shoulders as far as benching is concerned.
How big is your arm,and how much can you bench ???
Sorry Wes, know it's off topic but did you post pics of your and the mrs recently on Getbig? Trying to distinguish between a dream and reality yesterday lol ;D
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Arnold's chest was built soley on flat bench, inclune bench, and flyes, not pussy hammerstrength and dumbbell presses.
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alot of pussies in this thread.
eidt:
I have a BP contest in 2 weeks. Ill bump this thread after that with: "fuck bros, you were right"
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for a start, DBs dont offer you greater range of movement than barbell. If you draw a line between your hands in the DB press u will notice that you dont go as deep.
secondly, depth in the flat press doesnt contribute to pec size. The last bottom third of the rep is mechanically disadvantageous and a shoulder wrecker.
The top 1/5th of the rep is also bad for the shoulders.
that leaves a small portion where its useful. The hammer strength machine is good as it lifts the resistance thruogh the upright plane for the portion of the rep that is useful. For both the bottom and top of the range, the weights are moving less against gravity.
The best pec exercises are machine or cable flyes. They are the only exercise that replicates what the pec does completely. Dumb bell flyes are good also, but again the top and bottom of the range is useless.
For shoulder issues, its more that the bar restricts the proper, natural arc of motion. Plus its overuse and ego lifting. All that equals shoulder damage.
I recommend to anyone to just not train shoulders as a result. They get plenty of work from back and chest, and you either have them or you dont. Once they are gone, so are your plans of becoming huge.
speaking from experience.
I never said dumbbells offer you a greater range of motion over a barbell. I just said go as low as you can. Another factor with a dumbbell press is that the if you look at the way the humerus bone is moving you can see that it goes wide and finishes closer together with dumbbell presses. The pecs are more activated than the locked width you have with gripping a bar. Even using a barbell the range of motion is limited by hitting the chest. If you ever used an MacDonald bar you would agree you could get 3 or more inches on the down stroke.
I disagree with the premise you put forth that going through a fuller range of motion damages joints. I believe the opposite. Doing a limited range of motion causes tightness of a joint that can actually cause an injury when that limited range of motion is exceeded.
Your explanation of machine flies would appear to be correct if you follow the body isolation theory of body part training. In truth the body works as a unit in any athletic function and a press is better for systemic growth than an isolation exercise. So a press for chest is better than a fly. Your premise of not training shoulders is bizarre.
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Some time ago, I was using a bench machine at my place's gym...the thing effed up my right shoulder.
The gym where I am at now, I use the Smith Machine for flat and incline---I get a huge pump from doing flat bench press on there, and no shoulder pain---but, I always get the feeling that a straight bar tends to "over-torque" the shoulder, especially if hand placement is off.
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Sorry Wes, know it's off topic but did you post pics of your and the mrs recently on Getbig? Trying to distinguish between a dream and reality yesterday lol ;D
Whatchoo talkin` `bout Willis ???
;D
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Whatchoo talkin` `bout Willis ???
;D
Hahaha not to worry, I must have dreamed last night but I swear I was looking through the boards and you posted a topic like "Me and the wife" and it was a few pics of you guys in the kitchen fixing up some food - you were looking jacked dont worry haha ;D"
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Hahaha not to worry, I must have dreamed last night but I swear I was looking through the boards and you posted a topic like "Me and the wife" and it was a few pics of you guys in the kitchen fixing up some food - you were looking jacked dont worry haha ;D"
LOL :D
My wife would kill me if I ever posted her pics online.........seriously!
Stop eating Greek food before you go to bed at night!
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http://www.lift-run-bang.com/p/most-popular-posts-and-series.html
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LOL :D
My wife would kill me if I ever posted her pics online.........seriously!
Stop eating Greek food before you go to bed at night!
Hahaha yes too much feta and tomatoes!
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Hahaha yes too much feta and tomatoes!
Those two combined always make for bad dreams!!
Were my abs shredded,and did my arms look any bigger,and did I finally have quads that looked like human legs.................... ....did my wifes tits shrink(hopefully not) ? ;D
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i gave up flat bench a long time ago cause of delt pain, and it didnt really do much for my pecs compared to inclines, dumbell flat presses, weighted dips and pec dec. flat bench works great for alot of people though
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Those two combined always make for bad dreams!!
Were my abs shredded,and did my arms look any bigger,and did I finally have quads that looked like human legs.................... ....did my wifes tits shrink(hopefully not) ? ;D
All I can say wes, is that it definately qualified as a 'wet dream' and that was before your wife walked into the kitchen stud ;D
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All I can say wes, is that it definately qualified as a 'wet dream' and that was before your wife walked into the kitchen stud ;D
OUTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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The truth is that the big 3 powerlifting lift ( Bench Press, Deadlift, Squat) are the reason why most 40 years old bodybuilders have fucked up rotator cuff and herniated disc!
Avoid the big 3 lift if you still want to lift weight otherwaise you'll quit going to the gym for frustration derived from the pain you'll will expwerience!
::)
Because it's fun to go to the gym and do sissy laterals, biceps curls and pec flyes, right?
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Smith Inclines
Dumbell Inclines
Flyes
Thank me later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
oh yeah, the "natural plane" of the smith is great for shoulders and avoiding injuries!
Uh, no... It's not.
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oh yeah, the "natural plane" of the smith is great for shoulders and avoiding injuries!
Uh, no... It's not.
Truth
The Smith machine has promoted more injury to weight trainers than pretty much any gym apparatus.
Every one who regularly uses the Smith for heavy squats, presses, etc. will eventually blow out something. Or tweak something real bad.
From Yates to Marcovici to this regular dude who used to lift where I did, the Smith is best used to develop injury potential.
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I think it's bullshit
People get greedy, bench too much and too often. Muscles can adapt, but tendons need more time.
I think benching once or twice a week and using microplates for small, gradual gains is the best way to go about benching. Few things feel as good as benching weight which you couldn't in your previous session.
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Retract your shoulder blates when you bench.
Reduces stroke distance but increases ROM and pre stretches chest. Also protects shoulder.
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Retract your shoulder blates when you bench.
I never could do this one, never knew how to do it. People really know what this means ?
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oh yeah, the "natural plane" of the smith is great for shoulders and avoiding injuries!
Uh, no... It's not.
Then just do pushups then...when you get tired of that, do decline pushups...next thing you'll know, you'll be like
http://www.calisthenicskingz.net/main.htm (http://www.calisthenicskingz.net/main.htm)
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It mean pull your traps back and lie on your traps.
Imagine someone poking you with a pencil/their finger in your upper mid back. You are trying to squeeze your blades back to touch the pencil/finger. Pulling your shoulders down to the bench. it reduces stroke distance by a noticeable amount.
You can see me adjust it and retracting shoulders at the start here.
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What language is this ? Scandinavian ?
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English.
Spoken in a Belfast accent.
I speak clearly though.
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Retract your shoulder blates when you bench.
Reduces stroke distance but increases ROM and pre stretches chest. Also protects shoulder.
This.
When I see the average gym rat benching I always want to rush over and do an intervention, but even if you do they'll do one set with improved form then go right back to benching like a retard.
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Is the myth about "The Hammer"'s mother true?
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oh yeah, the "natural plane" of the smith is great for shoulders and avoiding injuries!
This is the only exercise I use it for and it`s helped my upper pecs immensely.
I`m not talking about maxing out every week,I`m talking about bodybuilding.
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Wes knows a thing or two about upper pecs.
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I love doing incline bench. Flat bench is ::) but heavy incline, I'd be damned if I dont do some incline benching at least once a week.
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Wes knows a thing or two about upper pecs.
Actually,I know three things about upper pecs,but who`s counting? :D
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I never could do this one, never knew how to do it. People really know what this means ?
What's difficult to understand?
And he's right. Pulling shoulders back and raising the chest puts the shoulders in a much safer position. Also, draw the elbows in rather than flared to the sides.
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What's difficult to understand?
And he's right. Pulling shoulders back and raising the chest puts the shoulders in a much safer position. Also, draw the elbows in rather than flared to the sides.
Correct. Also squeezing the bar extra tight and trying to "bend" the bar on the decline will help do this for the shoulders as well.
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Correct. Also squeezing the bar extra tight and trying to "bend" the bar on the decline will help do this for the shoulders as well.
More great advice.
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Unseated my bicep tendon doing flat bench years ago. I never flat bench anymore.
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When you struggle grip tighter. It works. Activates more triceps.
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When you struggle grip tighter. It works. Activates more triceps.
really ...?
never heard of this technique before...
then gain I use the suicide grip for all my barbell presses
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Suicide grip is advocated by many as you are pressing your wrist through the bar. Your wrists are not bent back etc so many feel stronger.
By applying the same technique (not bending wrist back) but with thumbs around the bar when you gruip tight you add pressure/adctivate some nerve in the muscly bit of the hand beneath your thumb which activates more triceps.
Or so I am led to believe.